Do the stages actually kill us, or is it our own fault?

[AgentJGV]

Sir to stop you from getting hit you must shield. When you get hit on the shield it shrinks. Shrink too much and you cause a break

 

[The_Altrox]

Sir to stop you from getting hit you must shield. When you get hit on the shield it shrinks. Shrink too much and you cause a break

BUt letting your shield break is carelessness. Don't let it happen. You can roll out or what till a non-attack moment to escape. simple

 

[CHAOSvsORDER]

Skyworld- God **** we all hate this stage. If you knew precisely when the platforms would reappear, it wouldn't be a problem. But you don't. It's your fault for getting knocked down, but still...
Fault Percentage: 10%

the platforms take 12 seconds to reappear IIRC

EDIT: yeah, takes exactly 12 seconds. Since it's set, the percentage should probably be around 70% IMO

 

[The_Altrox]

the platforms take 12 seconds to reappear IIRC

This. I hate this stage, but the spawn is timed. I think it should go just because of the break ledges, but I can't make a strong enough argument. It's counter/banned btw

 

[SSBbo]

Yes. Isai said this and it holds true. But many people will get hit. It's a natural part of the game that is very difficult to avoid (though possible.) However, getting hit =/= shield breaking, but holding your shield up will lead to this. If you let your shield break, it was your fault for getting careless

like i said before, if my shield breaks (in real life it wouldn't, cuz i only use it when rolling or spotdodging isn't going to be helpful) I should get punished for being stupid, but not to the extreme of dying because Delfino left. I should be falcon punched or something, but not die.

Concerning skyworld: worst stage ever.

 

[CHAOSvsORDER]

Concerning skyworld: worst stage ever.

You haven't played Wario ware then

 

[The_Altrox]

like i said before, if my shield breaks (in real life it wouldn't, cuz i only use it when rolling or spotdodging isn't going to be helpful) I should get punished for being stupid, but not to the extreme of dying because Delfino left. I should be falcon punched or something, but not die.

Your being punished for getting careless and having your shield break on a portion of the field that the stage doesn't rise from. You are integrated with the stage and should know that breaking your shield is dangerous and should be avoided even more so. If you are left behind, it was your fault for getting careless and breaking.

 

[DuskMarthWater]

...This is the dumbest argument I've ever read. But I can't stop reading it because it's hilarious. Just a few things:

I hate the cannon balls too. It still screws me over from time to time. you just gotta get used to it and predict when/where they're gonna land.

I recall you distinctly saying that you are always at fault. The cannon balls do not screw you over, in your own words. Rather, you screw yourself over by putting yourself in their path.

And this whole pointless discussion goes back to what I have said and will say: Your opponent kinda makes your match more difficult than you describe. Most of you are speaking with the kind of tone that tells me you have not played anyone at or around a pro. level. And your opponent's skill level is something you cannot predict.

 

[:mad:]

If you take the question literally, you do die because of the stage hazards.
But, AGAIN, it is your fault in the first place. This discussion has no purpose any more.

 

[randomness_FTW!]

In most cases, the stages don't actually kill you, maybe its just because you're using a character with bad recovery (like Olimar). Skyworld has to be the most hazardous (spelling?) place, next to Warioware.

 

[Phantom7]

Yes, stages kill us. The blasters at Halberd, getting stuck under Final Destination, Palkia and Cressellia at Spear Pillar, bombs at Pirate Ship, the entire 75m and Mario Bros, don't worry, guys, it's not our fault.

Btw, in my fangame, Super Smash Bros Crusade, no stages use that gimick crap like they do on Brawl, nothing that will kill you, at least. Just thought I'd point that out. It's not like I'm PROMOTING THE GAME or anything.

 

[Rinehart]

Probably its your fault by being on a certain spot. Or its the stage sometimes.

 

[The_Altrox]

I recall you distinctly saying that you are always at fault. The cannon balls do not screw you over, in your own words. Rather, you screw yourself over by putting yourself in their path.

That was what I was saying. I hate the cannons, and I make the mistake all the time, genius.

 

[The_Altrox]

Yes, stages kill us. The blasters at Halberd, getting stuck under Final Destination, Palkia and Cressellia at Spear Pillar, bombs at Pirate Ship, the entire 75m and Mario Bros, don't worry, guys, it's not our fault.

Half those stages are banned, but give warning. Halberd warns you, Pirate ship warns you, everything else is banned and they warn you too, though Spear pillar isn't clear.
and if you get stick under FD, it's your fault for botching the recovery.

 

[:mad:]

Half those stages are banned, but give warning. Halberd warns you, Pirate ship warns you, everything else is banned and they warn you too, though Spear pillar isn't clear.
and if you get stick under FD, it's your fault for botching the recovery.

That sums up every possible argument that stages kill us.

 

[The_Altrox]

That sums up every possible argument that stages kill us.

If you get caught under the stage, your botch. If you get hit by the lava that's been warning you for 10 seconds, your botch. If you get careless and break on a stage that may leave you behind, your botch. Bottom line: If you die by a stage effect, it was your fault. Not the stages.

 

[:mad:]

If you get caught under the stage, your botch. If you get hit by the lava that's been warning you for 10 seconds, your botch. If you get careless and break on a stage that may leave you behind, your botch. Bottom line: If you die by a stage effect, it was your fault. Not the stages.

Excellent point. It's just too bad people keep coming back around and point out the same topics you already went over.
But for casual Brawl, it shouldn't matter. But competitive, some people believe that any stage hazard can ruin a game and skill doesn't apply. So they ban everything. I say we ban all stages and determine who would win by writing the facts on paper.
/note sarcasm/.

 

[The_Altrox]

Excellent point. It's just too bad people keep coming back around and point out the same topics you already went over.
But for casual Brawl, it shouldn't matter. But competitive, some people believe that any stage hazard can ruin a game and skill doesn't apply. So they ban everything. I say we ban all stages and determine who would win by writing the facts on paper.
/note sarcasm/.

Oops I'm sorry. I thought you were saying those were valid against my argument. But yeah, I wish people would read more of the topic. But I must agree that there are certain stages that should be banned. I think Skyworld and Pictochat should myself.

 

[:mad:]

Oops I'm sorry. I thought you were saying those were valid against my argument. But yeah, I wish people would read more of the topic. But I must agree that there are certain stages that should be banned. I think Skyworld and Pictochat should myself.

Oh no, I made a few points earlier in the thread in your favor.
But yes, Skyworld is impossible to avoid unless you can think a minute ahead. If you richochet off the top of the platform and get stage spiked, it's not entirely your fault, in my opinion.

Pictochat is another story. The hazards can be used to either person's advantage, like grabbing and tossing into that plant, or the spikes. The same can be said about Skyworld, but that's just overkill.

 

[The_Altrox]

Oh no, I made a few points earlier in the thread in your favor.
But yes, Skyworld is impossible to avoid unless you can think a minute ahead. If you richochet off the top of the platform and get stage spiked, it's not entirely your fault, in my opinion.

Pictochat is another story. The hazards can be used to either person's advantage, like grabbing and tossing into that plant, or the spikes. The same can be said about Skyworld, but that's just overkill.

I don't mind the hazrads themselves. It's the fact that the warning is so little, and you don't know what will appear next. However, in my pictochat topic, they proved the left side is safe, and you can DI to not die, so I guess it's okay.

Skyworld pisses me off just for edge breaking. But I can't make an argument against that.

 

[:mad:]

I don't mind the hazrads themselves. It's the fact that the warning is so little, and you don't know what will appear next. However, in my pictochat topic, they proved the left side is safe, and you can DI to not die, so I guess it's okay.

Skyworld pisses me off just for edge breaking. But I can't make an argument against that.

Brawl just isn't good enough for competitive play since there are so many problems with stages, gameplay, characters, etc. I think it's best left for casual play where you can have FUN with the hazards.

But the only way to survive on Mario Bros. is to use Pit/Fox/Falco/Wolf... useless stage.

It's not so much the random changes of Pictochat I hate, it's how plain, boring, and calm it is. You can't really focus because it's just that dull.

 

[Brawler1432]

Sometimes, it's the player's fault. Sometimes, it's the opponent's actions. Other times, it can be the stage itself. Most of the time, it's clearly avoidable and your fault for getting hit/grabbed or for walking/running into the trap but there are some times when it comes out of nowhere and you're left wondering how it happened. That's why those stages are counterpick and not neutral or banned. Here's a couple of videos to help me back this up:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGLc1bpya1g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hE4zHjYWeyk

All i saw was edge guarding and awful playing.

 

[kirbywizard]

I bothered to read most of the post here
and I agree bottom line stages don't kill you
usually player at fault
a stage like the fire emblem castle (forgot name) constantly change terrain
if for god knows why you are not remembering how small the lave area is and you and your friend are on the far right of the second level, chances are you will both be trying to reach for the edge when the terrain changes. Now spear pillar.....
wait I think everyone has already covered basically everything

 

[AgentJGV]

The stages do kill you. It delivers the final blow. The point of the matter is that if the stage didn't do this certain thing then you'd still be alive.

 

[Pink murder]

I do believe its the players fault, but i also believe that who can blame them when they complain? Sure they have signs telling you whats going to happen, but thats not the point >.>. Stages like that provide alot of distractions. Thus not allowing you to give it 100%. You spend more time worrying what the stage is going to do rather than what your opponent is. I think those stages are better for friendlies, where winning isnt that big of an issue.

 

[CHAOSvsORDER]

Stages like that provide alot of distractions. Thus not allowing you to give it 100%. You spend more time worrying what the stage is going to do rather than what your opponent is. I think those stages are better for friendlies, where winning isnt that big of an issue.

That's why you're given a warning. You get focused, then you're given a warning, then you get the hell out of the way, then back to playing.

 

[The_Altrox]

The stages do kill you. It delivers the final blow. The point of the matter is that if the stage didn't do this certain thing then you'd still be alive.

Yes, a wave of lava can knock you off, but you had a waning. Your fault for not avoiding it. Your fault. Not the stage. The stage told you what was going to happen, and you pay the price for ignoring it.

 

[Lovely]

It depends, some stages seek you out and destroy you when it get's a chance, like Halberd, Pictochat, or Norfair. Some stages like Brinstar, Distant Planet, or Bridge of Elden has predictable stage hazards and is easily advodied.

 

[The_Altrox]

It depends, some stages seek you out and destroy you when it get's a chance, like Halberd, Pictochat, or Norfair. Some stages like Brinstar, Distant Planet, or Bridge of Elden has predictable stage hazards and is easily advodied.

Only Halberd of those three seeks you out, but it's easy to to avoid the laser. The claw is more difficult, but can become easier to avoid with practice.

 

[arch knight]

Do stages kill people they dont bullets from guns kill people

the players who utilize the stages hazards are the ones who kill not the stage if your the unlucky person who ends up dieing from the hazard due to your own move or playing style then its your fault the stages cannot kill

 

[UncleSam]

I believe it's the players fault, why? all of the obstacles in the stages can be dodged, the stages just get in they way
exceptions would be glitches in the stages themselves that cause you to die
i.e. if you grab the edge in Warioware Inc. and the stage goes to a microgame you get sent under the stage and die

 

[The_Altrox]

Glitches are exceptions to it all. If you fall through the shine gate on Delfino, you have my pitty, since it's not supposed to happen

 

[arch knight]

Glitches are exceptions to it all. If you fall through the shine gate on Delfino, you have my pitty, since it's not supposed to happen

true some stages do have those rather random fall throughs which cannot be helped by either side but that aside stages dont kill you

 

[Vorguen]

Stages with stage hazards are always my least favorite pick. They are just completely annoying for me.

 

[Morrigan]

Only Halberd of those three seeks you out, but it's easy to to avoid the laser. The claw is more difficult, but can become easier to avoid with practice.

The claw is super predictable as well, you just gotta be alert when it starts to move. I always start shielding more often when it starts moving and keep my shield exactly when it stops (just before it hits someone)...either: a) you shield it, b) it hits the other person (if he's busy trying to hit you) or c) you get hit by the other person while you're shielding (meaning the claw can hit you or him or both).

That's the way I see it anyway.

 

[Pink murder]

That's why you're given a warning. You get focused, then you're given a warning, then you get the hell out of the way, then back to playing.

Lol you said it yourself ^^
Getting out the way will completely ruin your focus. All of it will be turned to whatever the stage is doing, and how to get out of it.
It could also ruin your chain or combo.
For example, im about to execute the gonzo combo, so i grab, Fthrow, Utilt, but at that point i see that the lava/bullet/whatever hazard the stage produces is heading straight for me, so i have to stop the combo, and run from the danger.
Its a nuisance >.>
Not saying that they are not fun, sure they are. But only when your playing for fun.

 

[:mad:]

Not really @ Pinky.
The stages are like the third player, and they provide and extra obstacle you MUST avoid.
It's your fault if they break your focus, camp for a second if you need to, hopefully that will help since your have your concentration needs.

If it ruins your chain or combo, it's only fair because the person gets a fair shot against you.
Use them to your advantage, grab release into a lasurr or something, break their concentration first, Pinko.

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

I think it's a combination of things. Some stages are just evil and purposly try to get you slaughtered (such as Warioware with it's seemingly biased rewards, and Spear Pillar, since those Pokemon Deities seem to enjoy screwing with Brawls). But still, the best player is typically the one who can cope with such issues easily, and infact use them to their advantage. There should be a level of compeditive play where such stages should be expected to be used instead of only Battlefield and Final Destination, with only SOME of the others being used as "counter pics". But then again, the same things can be said for Items and for Smash Balls too.... it's a combination of factors that determine who's at fault for being owned by it. It's entirly situational.

 

[:mad:]

Too true.
Warioware either randomly gives a person the reward, or the person that's losing.
And to add insult to injury, the other person gets invincibility and you just become a larger target. (sometimes)

 

[Pink murder]

Not really @ Pinky.
The stages are like the third player, and they provide and extra obstacle you MUST avoid.
It's your fault if they break your focus, camp for a second if you need to, hopefully that will help since your have your concentration needs.

If it ruins your chain or combo, it's only fair because the person gets a fair shot against you.
Use them to your advantage, grab release into a lasurr or something, break their concentration first, Pinko.

Very bad analogy
The purpose of a solo is to have two people fighting each other at their full potential. No distractions. And especially not another player (Which according to you is like a stage with hazards.)
It all comes down to what I've been saying since the beginning.
Hazardes stages + solo = No no
Hazardes stages + Friendly= Fun and epic.