Do the stages actually kill us, or is it our own fault?

[Alus]

So everyone is pretty much saying that while they dislike the hazards, they still agree that the cause of death is still within player error?

 

[The_Altrox]

So everyone is pretty much saying that while they dislike the hazards, they still agree that the cause of death is still within player error?

Yes. Because as honorable players, we can admit that the error was our own, and that the stage was just a side-effect

 

[Ussi]

Stages do kill you... watch last 18 seconds of this battle

 

[The_Altrox]

Stages do kill you... watch last 18 seconds of this battle

Your fault both times. You shoulda knew that edge wasn't grabable. and your positioning for stage flip was bad.

 

[thatsyournamedude]

I agree with altrox...that was avoidable

 

[AgentJGV]

alright here's a scenario for ya. I'm playing as Ganon on Frigate Orpheon. The stage has flipped once. My opponent sends me flying to the right. While I'm recovering the stage flips and i cant grab onto the ledge and I'm too far away to land on the stage. Therefore I die. Hmmm...it seems like the stage killed me.

 

[peregrine monkey]

alright here's a scenario for ya. I'm playing as Ganon on Frigate Orpheon. The stage has flipped once. My opponent sends me flying to the right. While I'm recovering the stage flips and i cant grab onto the ledge and I'm too far away to land on the stage. Therefore I die. Hmmm...it seems like the stage killed me.

Frigate Orpheon won't flip twice in that amount of time. This "scenario" is impossible.

 

[AgentJGV]

i mean the stage has already flipped like at the beginning of the match and im on my second or last stock.

 

[Endless Nightmares]

i think we can also place fault on a third party for all of this: the opponent. Not the stage or us, but our opponent. Often times your opponent will try to knock you into a hazard or otherwise mess you up on counterpick stages lol. Usually this can not be avoided once he has set you up

 

[The_Altrox]

alright here's a scenario for ya. I'm playing as Ganon on Frigate Orpheon. The stage has flipped once. My opponent sends me flying to the right. While I'm recovering the stage flips and i cant grab onto the ledge and I'm too far away to land on the stage. Therefore I die. Hmmm...it seems like the stage killed me.

You shouldn't have been sent flying by your opponent then. Play defensively if your so worried 'bout that.
Besides, if the warning alarm went off before you were hit off, you should have been defensive so that it doesn't happen. If it went off as you were in the air, you should have enough time to recover.

 

[bobson]

alright here's a scenario for ya. I'm playing as Ganon on Frigate Orpheon. The stage has flipped once. My opponent sends me flying to the right. While I'm recovering the stage flips and i cant grab onto the ledge and I'm too far away to land on the stage. Therefore I die. Hmmm...it seems like the stage killed me.

Your fault for allowing your opponent to launch you when the stage was about to flip.
Next.

 

[Ussi]

Your fault both times. You shoulda knew that edge wasn't grabable. and your positioning for stage flip was bad.

Of course I knew the edge wasn't grabable. But the moment I saw it go up I had already inputted my command and couldn't move back onto the ledge in time. Reaction lag sheesh plus Ike has to input his commands way early since his moves take a while to come out... 3rd death can be my fault for staying at a stupid spot...

 

[The_Altrox]

Of course I knew the edge wasn't grabable. But the moment I saw it go up I had already inputted my command and couldn't move back onto the ledge in time. Reaction lag sheesh plus Ike has to input his commands way early since his moves take a while to come out... 3rd death can be my fault for staying at a stupid spot...

Shoulda timed yourself better then.

 

[AgentJGV]

You shouldn't have been sent flying by your opponent then.

but we aren't debating if its your fault if you get hit by your opponent now are we. We're debating if it's your fault if the stage kills you. In this case, Ganon is sent flying, alarm goes off, try to recover, stage flips, death.

 

[The_Altrox]

You shouldn't have been sent flying by your opponent then. Play defensively if your so worried 'bout that.
Besides, if the warning alarm went off before you were hit off, you should have been defensive so that it doesn't happen. If it went off as you were in the air, you should have enough time to recover.

it comes down to stage strategy as well. if you have difficulty recovering on a stage, you need to play defensively to save casualties. and if you fail to make it back, in the long run, it's your faut for not playing it properly. Your opponents attacks do tie in with stage strategy. if the alarm goes off, you gotta say to yourself "hey, maybe I should be careful that I don't fly off and have difficulty recovering." Your own fault. The stage is being itself, and you gotta read the signs.

 

[Flamingo]

Some things are just gay on stages though. Conveyor belts anyone?

 

[notftomearth7]

On certain stages like Pirate Ship, you can literally get killed by the stage if you hit that left curvy part of the pirate ship while it's drifing at sea. Some stages, the hazards are to numerous to avoid, such as Brinstar or Wario-ware Inc. But, there are some where if you can't avoid the hazards, it's entirely, your fault, like Green Hill Zone. You can easily side dodge the checkpoint thingy.

 

[Skrah]

You should be intelligent enough as to stay away from the pirate ship. The cannonballs are gayer in my opinion. Sometimes I get hit cause I'm too focused on my enemy I dont see a random ball of metal zooming towards me. But its really your choice where you play.

 

[AgentJGV]

it comes down to stage strategy as well. if you have difficulty recovering on a stage, you need to play defensively to save casualties. and if you fail to make it back, in the long run, it's your faut for not playing it properly. Your opponents attacks do tie in with stage strategy. if the alarm goes off, you gotta say to yourself "hey, maybe I should be careful that I don't fly off and have difficulty recovering." Your own fault. The stage is being itself, and you gotta read the signs.

OK then. lets say i was hit, sent flying, and the alarm went off as soon as i got hit. I had no time to react. then because it changed i couldn't get back because of a non grabbable edge.

 

[The_Altrox]

OK then. lets say i was hit, sent flying, and the alarm went off as soon as i got hit. I had no time to react. then because it changed i couldn't get back because of a non grabbable edge.

You're going to great lengths to prove me wrong I see. In any case the stage doing that just as you got hit is very unlikely. If it did happen, you would probably have enough time to recover, and if you don't, the stage probably wouldn't screwdriver you over unless you were really low or really high during the flip. But what your arguing is like saying Yoshi island killed you because the support ghosts decided not to help you, which is a BS excuse IMO.

 

[Ragnell4000]

final destination kills when u get stuck under the ******* stage(excludes C.Falcon)

 

[CR4SH]

Every stage has a burning hatred of you and wants to kill you at every opportunity. Unfortunately some stages are better equipped than others to do so. FD is top tier.

 

[EmperorB-rad2kj]

Everyone is saying it's the players fault because he should'nt be in that position for a hazard to kill you. Well think there is just no way to not get grabbed hit etc. an entire match. If that's the case they could never lose hazards are there for getting in your way. No matter how smart you think you may be it's the stages fault even items for example. A random bomb-omb hits u bcuz it waz offscreen & you roll to avoid a Fsmash not my fault. I try to recover on frigate orpheon. an the platform that rolls on the screen cuts off my PK thunder not my fault. I spike my opponent on yoshi's island & the ghost saves him not my fault I'm on picto chat recovering, and the face blowing the wind appears and blocks me not my fault. I hear the alarm on frigate orpheon but stand in one spot now THATS my fault there is a difference.

 

[Kief]

in most cases its the player's fault but in some cases its not. no matter how 'smart' you are you're bound to get hit by stage hazards once in a while. you're not perfect.

as far as items go...thats a whole nother story. i've had bob-ombs literally appear on me lol. and hammers and pokeballs...i swear they hate me...

 

[The_Altrox]

Everyone is saying it's the players fault because he should'nt be in that position for a hazard to kill you. Well think there is just no way to not get grabbed hit etc. an entire match. If that's the case they could never lose hazards are there for getting in your way. No matter how smart you think you may be it's the stages fault even items for example. A random bomb-omb hits u bcuz it waz offscreen & you roll to avoid a Fsmash not my fault. I try to recover on frigate orpheon. an the platform that rolls on the screen cuts off my PK thunder not my fault. I spike my opponent on yoshi's island & the ghost saves him not my fault I'm on picto chat recovering, and the face blowing the wind appears and blocks me not my fault. I hear the alarm on frigate orpheon but stand in one spot now THATS my fault there is a difference.

First off, bombombs shouldnt be turned on. secondly, frigate's platforms are timed, so if they bother you, learn when to avoid them. And theoreticly, it is possible to play a perfect match, though difficult in practice.

 

[The_Altrox]

in most cases its the player's fault but in some cases its not. no matter how 'smart' you are you're bound to get hit by stage hazards once in a while. you're not perfect.

That doesn't make it the stage's fault for your 1/100 screw up

 

[MBreeto]

You could technically always blame the player. For example, "if they weren't on that part of the stage at that time, they wouldn't have died". However, I think the stages have it out for me, even FD. I'm pretty sure FD moves a foot every time I try to get back on

 

[The_Altrox]

You could technically always blame the player. For example, "if they weren't on that part of the stage at that time, they wouldn't have died". However, I think the stages have it out for me, even FD. I'm pretty sure FD moves a foot every time I try to get back on

You, your opponent, and the stage are always integrated. Likewise, it can be used to kill your opponent through your actions and vice versa. EX: I'm DK and your Ganon. I side B you on Delfino as the stage is rising, and your KO'd by being left behind. Not Delfino's fault, cause it was on a schedual. Your's for being grounded, and your opponent took advantage of the situation.
Likewise, on Norfair, Ganon ganocides DK at the right moment when the lava rises so that DK dies, but Ganon is saved by lava. Not the stages fault for periodic lava flow. Ganon took advantage of the situation, and DK failed

 

[AgentJGV]

Alright here's one. I'm. Playing wolf vs ganon and falcon on pirate ship in a team match. I get thrown to the right and ganoncided into the ship.

 

[Oracle]

You could always blame the player, technically. It just doesn't work.
Look at yuna vs. the evo guys

 

[AgentJGV]

Yuna needs to take a side

 

[EmperorB-rad2kj]

I waz using bomb-ombs as an example. I don't play with items unless 4 fun. If frigate orpheons platforms are timed wat kinda person would actually look for it & I doubt that that they are timed. Besides if one is focused on battle hazards is the least of there worries therefore hurting them. The only way a person can get a perfect match is if there opponent is herendously bad at said game.

 

[MRTW113]

Stage hazards kill us, but us and our opponents set it up.

 

[N-Bizzoy]

Its Stage hazards like MRTW113 said. But sometimes its our faults for running into the hazards. =P

 

[AgentJGV]

also i just noticed something, if you die because of a stage hazard, the stage then killed you. If it had not been there then it wouldn't have killed you.

 

[The_Altrox]

Alright here's one. I'm. Playing wolf vs ganon and falcon on pirate ship in a team match. I get thrown to the right and ganoncided into the ship.

Ganon killed you using his advantage, and you shouldn't have been thrown off. NOt the ship's fault for being itself.

and as for "also i just noticed something, if you die because of a stage hazard, the stage then killed you. If it had not been there then it wouldn't have killed you."

AS the topic says, it's your fault. In the long run, you killed you or your opponent killed you.

 

[Ryan Ludovic]

it can always be said that, the only reason you are dying is not because the stage killed you, but your inability to not be killed by the stage.

No matter how difficult it may prove to be on some levels.

 

[Alus]

same can be said with items...

 

[AgentJGV]

Altrox, you're treating the stage as if it was an endagered animal. The blame of why you died is by the direct cause, (this being the stage's hazards). It's a simple if/then statement: if a stage hazard hits me. , THEN i died.

And to end my post i leave yet another example. We're playing on Pictochat. I'm at a vary high percentage and one hit will send me flying. The stage is blank right now, but while i'm falling after a small hit, a missle appears...I die. The missle came out of no where and I had no time to react. Now tell me, is it my fault for dying? <--retorical question.

 

[OmegaXF]

You can avoid stage hazards. But it's the player faults.....