Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[chocolatejr9]

Isn't it over at this point? Makes me feel like it's gonna wind up the PS version of Star Fox Grand Prix. Remember that whole mess?

Don't remind me. The Wumpa League situation is bad enough on its own. Really brought out the bad side of the Crash fandom, that one...

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

It is telling of contemporary game development time and Rockstar's approach to releases that as of next week it will have been a longer period of no new Grand Theft Auto games since V's release (September 2013 - September 2021) than it was to get every single 3D GTA game and their expansions prior to V (October 2001 - October 2009).

Used to be three GTA titles to a generation, now it's one GTA to three generations.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Mass downvotes have been a thing for a while on GTAV PS5 trailers.

What do you mean by T2's rubbish anyway? The PS5 version seemingly lacking enhancements? Their hatred of mods?

Downvotes haven't really happened until GTA PS5 was announced.

The lacking enhancements, the lack of single player content, their predatory shark cards, the pay to win environment they've created but mods are one thing they haven't been able to touch in GTA 5.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I don't know what you're talking about by "PC game"

It's some (assumedly) low budget RPG spin-off that isn't on the consoles.

 

[BlondeLombax]

Don't remind me. The Wumpa League situation is bad enough on its own. Really brought out the bad side of the Crash fandom, that one...

Really? First time I’ve heard of it. What’s so bad about it?

 

[SNEKeater]

That GOW Ragnarok trailer was so ****ing hype.

Surprised it's going to be the last game with the norse setting though.

Spider-Man 2, Forspoken, Wolverine, KOTOR Remake and Project Eve (which is basically sci-fi Bayonetta) looked very good as well.

 

[Guynamednelson]

mods are one thing they haven't been able to touch in GTA 5.

I'm surprised they haven't taken down FiveM due to how widely popular it is on PC, therefore taking away a good chunk of potential profit.

There's a good video that was posted a couple of weeks ago in which Scorbunny talks about T2's fights with modders that I would post but it contains Hot Coffee footage. It's blurred out, and San Andreas' models may have aged poorly, but it's still a sex scene.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Really? First time I’ve heard of it. What’s so bad about it?

Basically, everybody's at each other's throats over what is going on with it. We all seem to be in agreement that it was a thing at one point, but we don't know if it's STILL a thing, or even what it is. The recent ActiBlizz stuff has only worsened things...

 

[CannonStreak]

By the way, aside from the State of Play talk...

Did anyone post this?

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

It had God Of War. Thats all I really cared about so this is a win. Spiderman 2 is cool too.

 

[Schnee117]

That GOW Ragnarok trailer was so ****ing hype.

Surprised it's going to be the last game with the norse setting though.

Spider-Man 2, Forspoken, Wolverine, KOTOR Remake and Project Eve (which is basically sci-fi Bayonetta) looked very good as well.

Kratos has gotta move on to throw down with Jesus eventually

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

I really need to start actually watching Ben's stuff, I only ever check out his Twitter since he's rarely political.

Oh, trust me. It's really good. Here's the link to his Crash Bandicoot: Warped 105% playthrough back when his channel was called "MaverickHunterZero75": https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWxHqVAKQGPdTDbBVhd3MyISuUvlJXGzC

By the way, aside from the State of Play talk...

Did anyone post this?

Ah yes... playable Sega consoles in a video game.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

I'm surprised they haven't taken down FiveM due to how widely popular it is on PC, therefore taking away a good chunk of potential profit.

There's a good video that was posted a couple of weeks ago in which Scorbunny talks about T2's fights with modders that I would post but it contains Hot Coffee footage. It's blurred out, and San Andreas' models may have aged poorly, but it's still a sex scene.

Take Two have attempted to take down OpenIV but apparently caved when they received massive backlash from the community so it's probably why they never went after FiveM. Plus mods fall under fair use so they were most likely issuing empty threats anyway.

 

[Willbuysmash4mw]

In civilized debate the onus to justify a position is on the party who offers it. So, the point is for other people who disagree with your thesis to prove why they are right so that your thesis may evolve. Otherwise you can stick your fingers in your ears and waggle your tongue until you're nabo-blue in the face but you've still acquiesced the notion of proper discourse by this point rendering further argument pointless.

But that's actually beside the Point.

The point is as Venus pointed out (read the room yo) harping on and on about one character is basically spam so don't do it.

I am proving my points and there are no counterpoints, that is the problem.

It would be one thing if I was arguing for a character and someone else or multiple people were arguing for other characters with the same kind of volume of evidence, but instead it is just a lot of “I have a feeling” stuff and flat out ignoring spirit events just because of characters from ARMS and Xenoblade 2 ended up getting into Smash Ultimate when they originally weren’t going to.

 

[3BitSaurus]

By the way, aside from the State of Play talk...

Did anyone post this?

Ngl, I kinda like how Sega enjoys turning the consoles themselves into playable characters.

AGES was my main in All-Stars Transformed from the moment I unlocked it.

 

[JOJONumber691]

This reminds me of the Joy-Cons in Rivals. And the fact that they’re programmed to drift.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

By the way, aside from the State of Play talk...

Did anyone post this?

Why is this so ****ing funny

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Damn...This presentation really made me realize, how nowadays, as technology progress and we get closer and closer to photorealism, no one is able to create a single striking and Iconic Design for their main characters.
What happened?

Eh, are newer characters and their designs are memorable and striking.

 

[CommanderZaktan]

So, Direct next week?

 

[CannonStreak]

So, Direct next week?

Seems most likely to happen.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Yea I'm not that into a lot of Sony's 1st party titles. So many 3rd person story driven action games. If you're into that I'm sure the presentation was great for you, but I thought it was pretty mediocre. Ratchet and Clank was the most impressive thing they've put out since PS5 as it's something that isn't feasibly possible on older hardware.

Can't even find a new console still. Feelsbadman.

 

[Nekoo]

Eh, are newer characters and their designs are memorable and striking.

Ah yes. Splatoon.
Present in the Playstation experience.
Also totally photorealistic.

 

[Theguy123]

Even though I don’t own a PlayStation, that direct was good. Excited for the wolverine game even though I don’t own a PlayStation. I’m expecting the hulk to show up in that due to a licensing plate in the background referencing the hulk issue 181 which I believe is the first appearance of wolverine fully

 

[Ivander]

Damn...This presentation really made me realize, how nowadays, as technology progress and we get closer and closer to photorealism, no one is able to create a single striking and Iconic Design for their main characters.
What happened?

I assume this is talking about a unique and striking design with photo-realism and not so much about "iconic design" when we've practically made a character for every concept or idea, regardless of ridiculousness or sensibility. Because nowadays, you certainly can't reach "iconic" with design alone.

Or are we just hoping for a "Spot the main character in the anime" sort of character with photo-realism?

 

[to be forgotten]

I am so, so glad PS is finally getting more attention in spec.

It's way overdue, and it still kinda sucks that it took a fake 4chan leak for most people to start considering it as a possibility, and it still kinda annoys me when people only look at PSO2 for possible picks, but I'm so happy it's finally happening

It's certainly a weird way it happened, but I'm glad for it at least. PS is SEGA's longest running series, even longer than Sonic, with both games even sharing important staff, yet it seemed to get largely ignored by the speculation bubble for no apparent reason other than not knowing. Even if PS doesn't get a character in, I hope more people in the interim before the next Smash at least sit down and play IV or Online 1 and maybe try out a few other classic SEGA series afterward to expand on their experience with games as a whole.

As a SEGA kid growing up, there's an entire nearly decade-and-a-half side of gaming console history that Sonic simply can't hold up alone in what is largely considered video game history: the game. PS3-era Bayonetta and Joker aren't qualified to really help, either.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Ah yes. Splatoon.
Present in the Playstation experience.
Also totally photorealistic

Your post didn't specify third-party video game characters, you were just talking about the general states of video game character designs in the current age and so I responded by talking about a more recent video game character that I felt had a striking design.

 

[3BitSaurus]

It's certainly a weird way it happened, but I'm glad for it at least. PS is SEGA's longest running series, even longer than Sonic, with both games even sharing important staff, yet it seemed to get largely ignored by the speculation bubble for no apparent reason other than not knowing. Even if PS doesn't get a character in, I hope more people in the interim before the next Smash at least sit down and play IV or Online 1 and maybe try out a few other classic SEGA series afterward to expand on their experience with games as a whole.

As a SEGA kid growing up, there's an entire nearly decade-and-a-half side of gaming console history that Sonic simply can't hold up alone in what is largely considered video game history: the game. PS3-era Bayonetta and Joker aren't qualified to really help, either.

I think part of the issue is that a lot of Sega IPs were dormant for a very long time, outside of a few who were lucky to get some new stuff - and then disappear back into the shadows.

Samba de Amigo and NiGHTS got revived back in the Wii, but these days only appear in Sega crossovers. Jet Set Radio's last stint was on the Xbox. Crazy Taxi, Space Channel 5 and Golden Axe have only seen ports (and in the former's case, two mobile games) since the 2000s. The last Virtua Fighter before the latest port and announcement was in 2010. The last Sakura Wars before 2019 was in 2005. That's not mentioning IPs that were gone after one game, like Skies of Arcadia and Billy Hatcher. A few of these had a lot of canceled entries, too.

So for a time, the series that got constant entries every few years were Sonic, Puyo, Yakuza, Phantasy Star (new content for the MMO), Monkey Ball... and a few of their sports games, I guess. It's only recently that we're seeing a lot of them come back in full force, like SoR4, Alex Kidd, Panzer Dragoon, Shenmue III, the new Virtua Fighter and others. So that's probably why - I think a lot of these have either faded from public consciousness or the new generations just didn't have enough time to know them.

I hope to God that Sega doesn't drop the ball. If anything, I think the timing would be perfect for Jet Set Radio's revival in particular - Bomb Rush Cyberfunk has to be at least the second or third indie game with similar themes and aesthetic, meaning there's demand in the market.

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

I think part of the issue is that a lot of Sega IPs were dormant for a very long time, outside of a few who were lucky to get some new stuff - and then disappear back into the shadows.

Samba de Amigo and NiGHTS got revived back in the Wii, but these days only appear in Sega crossovers. Jet Set Radio's last stint was on the Xbox. Crazy Taxi, Space Channel 5 and Golden Axe have only seen ports (and in the former's case, two mobile games) since the 2000s. The last Virtua Fighter before the latest port and announcement was in 2010. The last Sakura Wars before 2019 was in 2005. That's not mentioning IPs that were gone after one game, like Skies of Arcadia and Billy Hatcher. A few of these had a lot of canceled entries, too.

So for a time, the series that got constant entries every few years were Sonic, Puyo, Yakuza, Phantasy Star (new content for the MMO), Monkey Ball... and a few of their sports games, I guess. It's only recently that we're seeing a lot of them come back in full force, like SoR4, Alex Kidd, Panzer Dragoon, Shenmue III, the new Virtua Fighter and others. So that's probably why - I think a lot of these have either faded from public consciousness or the new generations just didn't have enough time to know them.

I hope to God that Sega doesn't drop the ball. If anything, I think the timing would be perfect for Jet Set Radio's revival in particular - Bomb Rush Cyberfunk has to be at least the second or third indie game with similar themes and aesthetic, meaning there's demand in the market.

Hey, at least SEGA actually cares about some of their old IPs more than CAPCOM (who's just milking Street Fighter & Monster Hunter to death now while OCCASIONALLY doing stuff with Mega Man).

Now if only they brought Mighty, Ray, Matilda, and Dark Sonic into the main Sonic canon... then again, I think the closest we're ever getting to canon Dark Sonic is Darkspine Sonic from Sonic & The Secret Rings.

 

[Speed Weed]

As a SEGA kid growing up, there's an entire nearly decade-and-a-half side of gaming console history that Sonic simply can't hold up alone in what is largely considered video game history: the game. PS3-era Bayonetta and Joker aren't qualified to really help, either.

And that's not even getting into their huge arcade output, which is extremely important to the company's history yet is often brushed aside by a lot of people here when talking about the impact of their properties

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

And that's not even getting into their huge arcade output, which is extremely important to the company's history yet is often brushed aside by a lot of people here when talking about the impact of their properties

Fun fact - I downloaded Sonic the Fighters on my dad's Xbox Series X. I'm not joking.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Hey, at least SEGA actually cares about some of their old IPs more than CAPCOM (who's just milking Street Fighter & Monster Hunter to death now while OCCASIONALLY doing stuff with Mega Man).

Now if only they brought Mighty, Ray, Matilda, and Dark Sonic into the main Sonic canon... then again, I think the closest we're ever getting to canon Dark Sonic is Darkspine Sonic from Sonic & The Secret Rings.

I wouldn't say so. Capcom has actually been doing a pretty ok job for the most part in terms of quality (with a few... notable exceptions like MvC). Resident Evil, Devil May Cry, Mega Man, Street Fighter, Dead Rising Monster Hunter, Ghosts'n Goblins, Ace Attorney - all have gotten new entries since 2015 or so.

Maybe they could make a new Viewtiful Joe, Rival Schools, Power Stone or Okami (I'd say Darkstalkers, but it's low-hanging fruit at this point), but in general the output is pretty ok for what it is - I think the only series with a longer hiatus between their latest entry and the previous one was Mega Man.

Inb4 they remake Red Earth, of all things.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Damn...This presentation really made me realize, how nowadays, as technology progress and we get closer and closer to photorealism, no one is able to create a single striking and Iconic Design for their main characters.
What happened?

There just has yet to be any truly photorealistic (as opposed to super cartoony/anime with high detail like current Final Fantasy, and the new Ratchet & Clank game) that doesn't feature normal humans, or normal humans from a past era, or in cases like God of War, characters that are normal humans from a past era as far as visuals are concerned. And since the main cast all looks like normal humans, having strange outfits like in anime would just look out of place. There's also less room to play around with human proportions, but I haven't really seen them mess around with proportions at all beyond changes that you could achieve with a height and muscle slider either so...

All of this is likely due to the technology still being rather new, and the fact that the more you push photorealism, the more likely it will look super ugly.

And that's not even getting into their huge arcade output, which is extremely important to the company's history yet is often brushed aside by a lot of people here when talking about the impact of their properties

lol asking console gamers in America where there are no arcades to care about arcade games other than PAC-Man and Donkey Kong.

This was mostly a joke.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

As a SEGA kid growing up, there's an entire nearly decade-and-a-half side of gaming console history that Sonic simply can't hold up alone in what is largely considered video game history: the game. PS3-era Bayonetta and Joker aren't qualified to really help, either.

The whole "celebration of gaming" bit that Sakurai talked about is meant to describe what Smash already is by default regardless of any future additions, not prescribe what Smash should be. Just because Smash doesn't cover every single aspect of gaming history it doesn't mean that those exclusions count as major holes in the roster because Smash was never meant to celebrate all aspects of video game history by the sheer factor of it being impossible. It's just meant to be a video game crossover that happens to include a lot of both Nintendo and third-party gaming history and because it does that (not just through characters, but also through various other content) it succeed in being a celebration of gaming.

 

[SKX31]

It is telling of contemporary game development time and Rockstar's approach to releases that as of next week it will have been a longer period of no new Grand Theft Auto games since V's release (September 2013 - September 2021) than it was to get every single 3D GTA game and their expansions prior to V (October 2001-October 2009).

Used to be three GTA titles to a generation, now its one GTA to three generations.

There's a key caveat (and reason why Rockstar are stretching V for as long as they can):

A look at how the Grand Theft Auto franchise contributed to Take Two's net revenue

GTAV launched in FY2013/14 & helped the franchise generate net revenue of $1.62bn that year

In FY2020/21 the franchise generated $985m, thanks to repeat GTA V sales, but mostly GTA Online growth pic.twitter.com/0Rub63tlnT

— Daniel Ahmad (@ZhugeEX) May 19, 2021

Damn...This presentation really made me realize, how nowadays, as technology progress and we get closer and closer to photorealism, no one is able to create a single striking and Iconic Design for their main characters.
What happened?

Also, God Of War Ragnarok look ****ing fire.

Iconic designs come about not just because of the designs alone, but also by association with a really sucessful / influential game (or other work). Skyrim's Dovachkiin is a good example, since before he got famous you could easily mistake that design for a typical Norse fantasy design. Hell, before SMB itself took off on the NES Mario himself wasn't fully iconic - he was "just" a cartoony man in funny overalls. Becoming iconic takes time and fame that endures.

Of course: most works regardless of era are going to follow the leader to some degree. Especially after something influential comes out: comics post-Superman's debut is a great example, since numerous superhero comics sprang up. Some stuck around like Batman and Captain America, others like Captain Battle never even left that era's ZIP code (outside of the schlockiest cash grab of a Captain America rip off movie). Just like Awesome Possum never left his era's.

It's likely what's happening here - a lot of these games are following in the footsteps of something else (such as Project Eve taking a lot of its design cues from Bayonetta). We'll just simply have to wait a few years to see if any of those games - and consequently designs - become iconic at all. I mean, Sonic was developed under the premise of SEGA needing a Mario, after all - so it's not impossible here.

 

[Speed Weed]

lol asking console gamers in America where there are no arcades to care about arcade games other than PAC-Man and Donkey Kong.

it hurts because it's true

 

[Ivander]

Hey, at least SEGA actually cares about some of their old IPs more than CAPCOM (who's just milking Street Fighter & Monster Hunter to death now while OCCASIONALLY doing stuff with Mega Man).

Umm, have you seen some of the other Capcom games we've gotten recently or other Capcom crossovers? Like, just Street Fighter, Monster Hunter and occasional Mega Man?

• What happened to Resident Evil, Phoenix Wright, Devil May Cry and Ghosts'n Goblins getting new games released? Heck, Dead Rising and Sengoku Basara had a new game 5 years ago and Strider around 7 years ago.
• If counting re-released games, what about Okami, Onimusha, Dragon's Dogma, and their old Arcade titles through Stadium and Beat-em-Up bundle like Final Fight, Captain Commando, etc?
• And if counting crossovers, what about Darkstalkers, Rival Schools/Project Justice, Bionic Commando and Breath of Fire?

Sega does not care about some of their old IPs anymore than Capcom does.

 

[to be forgotten]

Yes, SEGA's definitely been overall really bad at preserving their legacy overall unfortunately. Outside a small handful of evergreen series, they always had a tendency to just drop series in favor of trying out a new IP instead. Which isn't the worst idea, since stagnating can make a series tiring, but it tends to leave a lot of fans of particular games out in the cold. It's actually kinda funny that Capcom's brought up, since they were probably one of the best at actually using their legacy, with tons of characters who appear in the Vs. series being the prime example. It would've been easy to just let them die, but a lot of people fondly regard one-off characters like Jin Saotome because he punched Venom once and they'll openly wish for his return in the next Vs or in Teppen or whatever regardless of if they've ever even had Tech Romancer taking up a corner at their Cici's Pizza. I guess they ARE kind of falling behind on expectations though... if only we had another Vs. Or a PXZ that went out of its way for more unusual picks. So long as companies do something to carry characters that fans love, it's better than nothing.

It feels like SEGA's soooort of getting the hang of bringing IPs back though, even if by and large they're outsourcing it, at least it's happening. The phenomenal SoR4, Panzer Dragoon remakes (with II in particular being worth anticipating, god willing we get Saga and just remaster Orta), HotD and such is helping bring back their legacy properly instead of the weird stuff they would do before like suddenly making a lot of Altered Beast merchandise and then it never sells so they don't make merchandise for non-Sonic series ever again. Though, ironically, they kinda did do okay with making sure a lot of arcade games are playable? Starting with Saturn's AGES releases mostly focusing on arcade, games like Shenmue and Yakuza going out of their way to include them as bonus content, making it their next priority after the Mega Drive for a major "Mini" project (even if it didn't get a proper international release) and we're slooowly moving into a world where Golden Axe II being impossible to play might become a memory, even if options at the moment are trend towards pricey. Certainly feels more possible for arcade stuff to happen soon than Saturn's library being officially playable without spending thousands and thousands of dollars on old discs.

The whole "celebration of gaming" bit that Sakurai talked about is meant to describe what Smash already is by default regardless of any future additions, not prescribe what Smash should be. Just because Smash doesn't cover every single aspect of gaming history it doesn't mean that those exclusions count as major holes in the roster because Smash was never meant to celebrate all aspects of video game history by the sheer factor of it being impossible. It's just meant to be a video game crossover that happens to include a lot of both Nintendo and third-party gaming history and because it does that (not just through characters, but also through various other content) it succeed in being a celebration of gaming.

Thank you for your contribution of responding to "i would like for thing to happen very much, it would mean a lot for me" with "well it doesn't actually matter that that happens, does it? it doesn't have to. smash is already good at what it's doing." Very cool. What if that was actually applied to Smash and the concept of "wanting more of it?" How far could we go stand still?

Point taken on non-character content mattering too though. I freaked out when the Akira AT was revealed and then, years later with Kazuya's release, immediately pit Kazuya vs. Akira in the only way I could tangibly do. Love that stuff.

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

Umm, have you seen some of the other Capcom games we've gotten recently or other Capcom crossovers? Like, just Street Fighter, Monster Hunter and occasional Mega Man?

• What happened to Resident Evil, Phoenix Wright, Devil May Cry and Ghosts'n Goblins getting new games released? Heck, Dead Rising and Sengoku Basara had a new game 5 years ago and Strider around 7 years ago.
• If counting re-released games, what about Okami, Onimusha, Dragon's Dogma, and their old Arcade titles through Stadium and Beat-em-Up bundle like Final Fight, Captain Commando, etc?
• And if counting crossovers, what about Darkstalkers, Rival Schools/Project Justice, Bionic Commando and Breath of Fire?

Sega does not care about some of their old IPs anymore than Capcom does.

1. Resident Evil has only gotten new online multiplayer games... AND THEY SUCK.
2. In terms of Darkstalkers, it's just copy-and-pasting Morrigan if Darkstalkers makes physical appearances. VERY RARELY have they done a Darkstalkers crossover and put a Darkstalkers character that WASN'T Morrigan.
3. The best Rival Schools has gotten as of now was Akira Kazama in Street Fighter 5. And yes, Sakura explains everything as to how they met.
4. Bionic Commando has only gotten ONE crossover. ONE. And that was in MvC2. A 21-YEAR-OLD GAME.
5. I have never heard anything about a Breath of Fire crossover. Not even once.
6. I meant all of that as in CROSSOVERS AND ACTUALLY NEW CONTENT. Ghosts N' Goblins only got a remaster, see #1 for Resident Evil, and re-released games don't count either.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

1. Resident Evil has only gotten new online multiplayer games... AND THEY SUCK.

I didn't know you could get some buddies to do a 4v1 against Lady Dimitrescu in Village

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

I didn't know you could get some buddies to do a 4v1 against Lady Dimitrescu in Village

Yeah, to be honest... I know that was meant to be taken as a joke, but Village is overrated. More overrated than the Doom Guy & Isabelle memes.

Yes, I posted a hot take. You're gonna come after me? Fine. COME AND GET ME!