Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Cutie Gwen]

Even assuming some people making this critique are legitimate white supremacists (I mean, I've never seen a white supremacist on Smashboards in the 5+ years I've been here, but I also don't really leave this thread much) and this is their genuine motivation for disliking these characters, it's extremely imprudent and dangerous to assume that this is the universal motivation for anyone pulling the "anime swordfighter" card. As someone who's most wanted were Byleth and Eight, I get it's an annoying, superficial, and childish critique, but trying to paint these people as a legitimately evil group that many of them almost certainly are not is only going to end poorly.

Also, if Japanese xenophobia was a major issue in the Smash fanbase, wouldn't Joker have been the major recipient of this? His game, series, and character are deeply connected to modern Japanese culture and iconography, yet he had the warmest reception of any DLC fighter aside from Banjo.

I can mention names as one guy legit had Stefan Molyneaux as an avatar here but I know mods wouldn't be happy if I did that, especially as some aren't banned. It's a disturbing overlap that happens too much to be a coincidence.

Joker was mostly warmly received like literally every other character, but you still saw "HOW DARE THEY ADD THIS ANIME FILTHY" a lot, and what a surprise, people I've seen on this site, discord servers and twitter who are white supremacists just so happened to throw fits and Joker being an anime swordsman

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Anyway, newer Mii predictions for this pack:

• Mecha-Fiora
• Lora
• Zeke
• Both Monster Hunter Miis
• Hollow Knight (w/Sealed Vessel remix)

Still no KOS-MOS or X content. This is of course assuming a MORE FIGHTERS IN DEVELOPMENT announcement happens. Also, Spirit Board consists of Rex, Nia, Morag, Tora, Poppi, Zeke, Pandoria, Dromarch, Blade Nia, Malos, Jin, Lora, Shulk (Future Connected), Melia (Future Connected), Kino and Nene.

I also still feel X clashes too much aesthetically so no X spirits on that board

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Anyway, newer Mii predictions for this pack:

• Mecha-Fiora
• Lora
• Zeke
• Both Monster Hunter Miis
• Hollow Knight (w/Sealed Vessel remix)

Still no KOS-MOS or X content. This is of course assuming a MORE FIGHTERS IN DEVELOPMENT announcement happens. Also, Spirit Board consists of Rex, Nia, Morag, Tora, Poppi, Zeke, Blade Nia, Malos, Jin, Lora, Shulk (Future Connected), Melia (Future Connected), Kino and Nene.

My personal prediction for the Mii:
-Kosmos
-Elma
-Monster hunter
-Lloyd
-Wild card: Fall guys or Among us' Crewmates

 

[Deleted member]

My personal prediction for the Mii:
-Kosmos
-Elma
-Monster hunter
-Lloyd
-Wild card: Fall guys or Among us' Crewmates

You just want to watch the world burn huh

 

[Momotsuki]

If we don't get an alt that swaps Pyra and Mythra's color schemes... I'm going to - probably be a little disappointed for a few minutes.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Among us' Crewmates

You know, one thing that the Smash community honestly amazes me with is the fact that out of all the fanmade mods given trailers that look like they'd be official, the ****ing Among Us characters seem to be the most popular to do this for, there's the Brawl mod that got shared on the site's homepage, an Ultimate mod of them, the 8bit Mario that was passed as a fake leak a while ago and a Shin Godzilla one for Brawl. I'm probably not looking in the right places but these little murder beans being the only one I've seen 2 different people make 2 different trailers of 2 different mods of the same character is hilarious

 

[DarthEnderX]

Other fighting games simply want their own individual artstyle and visual identity.

You can have different art styles, while using the same graphical methods. Guilty Gear and Dragon Ball FighterZ don't have the same art style, but they both use the same ArcSys techniques to look incredible.
KoF and SamSho were always very anime-styled games in the past. Street Fighter has been anime off and on over the years. There's no reason they shouldn't be adopting this to try and be the best looking games they can be.

Like, all I want from SF6 is for them to make a game that looks just like the SF2 Anime movie...

 

[SNEKeater]

Guilty Gear Strive makes me so angry....because ArcSys is STILL the only company doing that with the graphics. I remember when Xrd first came out, I thought "This is the best looking video game I've ever seen. Japanese 2D fighting game graphics is now SOLVED. I can't wait until other fighting games I actually play all start doing this too!" Then the next round of fighting games came out, and none of them were doing that, but I was like "It's fine. These games were obviously all in development already when Xrd came out, and it was too late for them to pivot. The next gen though."

It's now 7 years after Xrd, ArcSys has now made SEVERAL more games using that method. And other companies STILL aren't doing that. KoF15 looks better than KoF14, but still like ****. SamSho looks like ****ing SF4. And while SF6 MIGHT finally do something with SFs terrible art style, I honestly doubt it. Because the one downside to the ArcSys method, is it's not really compatible with alt costumes. As every costume is hand animated, animating a new costume is like animating an entirely new character. And, unfortunately, selling costumes is, like, SFs entire business model.

And it's not like it's an ArcSys trade secret! They gave an entire GDC talk about exactly how they do it! And the amazing this about it is how well that method AGES. Xrd STILL looks amazing to this day. It's like the PERFECT art style for a game that you intent to support with DLC for 5-10 years. And the perfect style for if you might plan to reuse the other assets for other games later(cough*Capcom*cough).

I understand your point, but doing that is not that easy. Sure it looks great but it has some downsides: less characters (though each is completely ubique), no alt costumes...

And I don't agree with KOFXV looking bad at all. With each new character trailer the game and the models look better in my eyes.
Also, you can't really ask this to other series. KOF having 30/40 plus characters at launch is basically part of the series, in part because of the team mechanic. So I don't think the average KOF fan would be happy if they lose half or the roster in exchange of better visuals.

Not to say, not everyone can do this or is able to do it. SNK almost went bankrupt again with KOFXIII, which had fully hand animated sprites. It looks fantastic? Yeah, but I rather them to keep doing games with a different artstyle instead of disappearing lol

 

[Momotsuki]

While I definitely don't think the "anime swordfighter" card is indicative of one's views on more serious matters (come on now, that's a little ridiculous), let's not pretend the Smash community doesn't have a major issue with fashies. They're way too common on Smash twitter and I have seen them here before.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Imagine thinking someone not liking anime like artstyles means they are a xenophobe

 

[DarthEnderX]

Sure it looks great but it has some downsides: less characters

An added benefit of having an art style that doesn't age, is you can spend the next decade adding characters to it without having to worry about the game looking dated.

Kind of like what KoF USED to do...only without the "not looking dated" part.

Yeah, you have to launch with fewer characters, but you can get there eventually, and end up with an infinitely better product at the end.

 

[chocolatejr9]

You just want to watch the world burn huh

Who doesn't?

 

[3BitSaurus]

Anyway, newer Mii predictions for this pack:

• Mecha-Fiora
• Lora
• Zeke
• Both Monster Hunter Miis
• Hollow Knight (w/Sealed Vessel remix)

Still no KOS-MOS or X content. This is of course assuming a MORE FIGHTERS IN DEVELOPMENT announcement happens. Also, Spirit Board consists of Rex, Nia, Morag, Tora, Poppi, Zeke, Blade Nia, Malos, Jin, Lora, Shulk (Future Connected), Melia (Future Connected), Kino and Nene.

Personally my prediction is:

• Jin
• Another Xenoblade Mii (Could be from 1DE or X)
• Hunter Mail
• Rathalos Armor
• Lloyd
• An indie Premiium costume

I'm not expecting any of the XC2 party members to be Mii'd, because to this day, very few DLC stage cameos have. The only ones who come to mind are Ryo and Iori.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

An added benefit of having an art style that doesn't age, is you can spend the next decade adding characters to it without having to worry about the game looking dated.

Kind of like what KoF USED to do...only without the "not looking dated" part.

Yeah, you have to launch with fewer characters, but you can get there eventually, and end up with an infinitely better product at the end.

GG is a 1v1 game and people are already pretty mixed on 15 characters at launch. KoF is a 3v3 game and that roster would be seen as completely unacceptable. While we do have games that improved a lot over time, must people would rather already start out with a reasonably large roster instead of needing DLC to double the size of it

 

[Lamperouge]

Given how popular Pyra and Mythra are I wonder if this’ll boost sales of this pass even further than Steve and Sephiroth have. Who knows pass 2 may even outsell pass 1.

you think so?

Most XC2 fans probably already had Smash before the announcement so I highly doubt they'll boost sales that much.

And these characters likely won't appeal to too many people outside of a very niche audience.

 

[DarthEnderX]

GG is a 1v1 game

DBFZ is a 3v3 game.

 

[SWSU]

Anyway, newer Mii predictions for this pack:

• Mecha-Fiora
• Lora
• Zeke
• Both Monster Hunter Miis
• Hollow Knight (w/Sealed Vessel remix)

Still no KOS-MOS or X content. This is of course assuming a MORE FIGHTERS IN DEVELOPMENT announcement happens. Also, Spirit Board consists of Rex, Nia, Morag, Tora, Poppi, Zeke, Blade Nia, Malos, Jin, Lora, Shulk (Future Connected), Melia (Future Connected), Kino and Nene.

My Guess from Most to Least Confident....

• Rex (He'll get a Universal Release outside of the Bonus for FP1)
• Lloyd (Given that Lloyd and MH don't really share much in common. I think we're only getting one)
• Additional Xenoblade Costume
• Ryu Hyabusa
• Shovel Knight

 

[Smash Monkey]

Anyway, newer Mii predictions for this pack:

• Mecha-Fiora
• Lora
• Zeke
• Both Monster Hunter Miis
• Hollow Knight (w/Sealed Vessel remix)

Still no KOS-MOS or X content. This is of course assuming a MORE FIGHTERS IN DEVELOPMENT announcement happens. Also, Spirit Board consists of Rex, Nia, Morag, Tora, Poppi, Zeke, Blade Nia, Malos, Jin, Lora, Shulk (Future Connected), Melia (Future Connected), Kino and Nene.

Sure, why not

• Zeke (Swordfighter)
• Poppi (Brawler)
• Melia [Future Connected] (Sword Fighter)
• KOS-MOS (Gunner)
• Llyod

KOS-MOS is more likely than you're giving it credit. When you're adding a character from XENOblade and you have another Namco character from XENOsaga, it just makes sense. Doubt Namco would be weird about it. Didn't have any issue letting Takahashi have 2 Xenosaga characters in XC2. The kicker is that they haven't added any new Namco costumes, but that's me being a pattern guy.

 

[RoboFist]

My personal prediction for the Mii:
-Kosmos
-Elma
-Monster hunter
-Lloyd
-Wild card: Fall guys or Among us' Crewmates

I'm with you. I want to rip the "Could Lloyd or Monster Hunter be the next DLC?!?" band-aid off sooner rather than later, and getting Mii costumes of the other two big-within-the-bubble characters would be a fine enough consolation prize imo.

 

[SWSU]

Its not that KOS-MOS is unlikely due to being hard to negotiate for, it's more... are both sides going to care enough to negotiate for her?

Granted, they COULD, but they just as easily could have gone through the entire process and not brought her up once.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

DBFZ is a 3v3 game.

Fair point there lol, but there was a big divide between the FGC and DBZ, the latter was used to games with rosters in the 100s iirc. So imagine if you get a community used to say, 30 characters on launch going to 15. Remember, BBTag and MVCI were always under heavy fire for launching with 20 characters

 

[Dinoman96]

I could see KOS-MOS showing up as a Mii costume or spirit (using her XB2 artwork, obv) as a nice little nod to a character/series Monolith used to work on before being absorbed into Nintendo, one that is owned by the same company working on Smash.

 

[Gazorpazorpfield]

A bit late, but when it comes to deciding whether something "is anime" or not, I subscribe to the Scott the Woz school of thought:


"I don't know how to describe anime, but I know it when I see it"
- Funny FlingSmash Man

Basically, if the average person (read. doesn't post on online forums about funny nintendo party games) sees you playing something and responds like this:

It's probably anime. Games like Zelda and Street Fighter take plenty of influence, but I'd argue they pass the Don't-Disappoint-Your-Parents test. Well, usually for Street Fighter anyway...

I'm also a weeb, for what it's worth

 

[MarioRaccoon]

My mii costume wave prediction:

• Zeke (X Xenoblade 2) [Swordfighter]
• Morag (X Xenoblade 2) [Swordfighter]
• Lloyd (X Tales of Symphonia) [Swordfighter]
• Tiki (X Fire Emblem) [Brawler]
• Kos-Mos (X Xenosaga) [Swordfighter?]

Spirit Board

• Rex
• Nia
• Zeke
• Morag
• Tora
• Poppi
• Pandoria
• Dromach
• Brighid
• Malos
• Jin
• Mikhail
• Akhos
• Patroka
• Kos-Mos (Xeno 2 Art)
• T-Elos (Xeno 2 Art)

Yes, we will get a full 2 pages spirit board.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I could see KOS-MOS showing up as a Mii costume or spirit (using her XB2 artwork, obv) as a nice little nod to a character/series Monolith used to work on before being absorbed into Nintendo, one that is owned by the same company working on Smash.

I think that also if Sakurai talk about the history of Xenoblade games in his Pyra/Mythra presentation, he's going to at least talk a little bit about Xenogears and Xenosaga. So I don't think a Kosmos mii costume is that crazy.

 

[Nekoo]

I never understood this "anime bad" thing. Probably because France is like the most weeb country in the world beside Japan itself, we had anime since the early 80 going on TV constantly alongside Manga while America had to wait late 90/early 2000 from what I saw.
Rarely to never saw European complain about "anime bad" seems to be an US thing

 

[AinsOoalGown]

My personal prediction for the Mii:
-Kosmos
-Elma
-Monster hunter
-Lloyd
-Wild card: Fall guys or Among us' Crewmates

-Zeke
-Morag
-Tora hat
-Kos-Mos
-the 2 Monster Hunter ones
-Shovel Knight Deluxe costume

Basically, if the average person (read. doesn't post on online forums about funny nintendo party games) sees you playing something and responds like this:

It's probably anime. Games like Zelda and Street Fighter take plenty of influence, but I'd argue they pass the Don't-Disappoint-Your-Parents test. Well, usually for Street Fighter anyway...

You must live in a very prejudiced country because thats not a normal reaction to be had to almost nothing. Also apart from all the insecurity that takes to divide media and culture based on what your cicles have accepted beforehand or in cultural aesthetics, using a word that describes the animation of a country as synonimous to "cringe and socially unacceptable" to the point where you open "exceptions" to what you like and dont want to be badly seen alongside too is pretty much racist.
It doesnt matter if you dont consider yourself one or if seemingly americans do that in their daily lives, its pretty much racist, anime is japanese animation, that's it, its not measured by your personal prejudice and it doesnt stop being so when "its thing popular with american people so well give it a pass and not mock people so they conform", that was one of the most prejudiced posts Ive ever seen, it makes the people calling DQ irrelevant look like fair and open-minded fellas.
(also gotta add its pretty sad people are still in that "youtubers are my personal friends and Ill follow their prejudices because I laugh at their jokes" phase. Specially when most turn out to be horrible people later on, but even if its one that reddit is calling "wholesome" right now, people shouldnt take a random comedian's personal taste or prejudices as gospel just because they make a joke video on it, this will just spread the prejudice)

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I never understood this "anime bad" thing. Probably because France is like the most weeb country in the world beside Japan itself, we had anime since the early 80 going on TV constantly alongside Manga while America had to wait late 90/early 2000 from what I saw.
Rarely to never saw European complain about "anime bad" seems to be an US thing

The French are such massive ****ing weebs that you guys singlehandedly got DQVIII3DS localized whereas we had some very questionable people in the US go "AS A HARDCORE GAMER I'VE LITERALLY NEVER EVER HEARD OF DRAGON QUEST OR SLIMES OR ANYTHING I ****ING HATE ANIME"

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Sure, why not

• Zeke (Swordfighter)
• Poppi (Brawler)
• Mia [Future Connected] (Sword Fighter)
• KOS-MOS (Gunner)
• Llyod

KOS-MOS is more likely than you're giving it credit. When you're adding a character from XENOblade and you have another Namco character from XENOsaga, it just makes sense. Doubt Namco would be weird about it. Didn't have any issue letting Takahashi have 2 Xenosaga characters in XC2. The kicker is that they haven't added any new Namco costumes, but that's me being a pattern guy.

Mia

you mean Melia right

granted there is a Xenoblade character named Mia but she’s in X and uses a plasma cannon and I think a knife

 

[ARandomZoomer]

Personally my prediction is:

• Jin
• Another Xenoblade Mii (Could be from 1DE or X)
• Hunter Mail
• Rathalos Armor
• Lloyd
• An indie Premiium costume

None of the waves have had more than two returning mii costumes. It would be weird doing so now when there are still 2 more characters down the line.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

None of the waves have had more than two returning mii costumes. It would be weird doing so now when there are still 2 more characters down the line.

Imagine if they did though... if you want to be technical, Joker’s wave had both the Tails AND Knuckles costumes return

 

[Munchi]

I never understood this "anime bad" thing. Probably because France is like the most weeb country in the world beside Japan itself, we had anime since the early 80 going on TV constantly alongside Manga while America had to wait late 90/early 2000 from what I saw.
Rarely to never saw European complain about "anime bad" seems to be an US thing

Certainly here in Spain I have almost never seen someone who has problems with anime, I have directly met many anime fans

 

[True Blue Warrior]

It would have bern cool if Palutena’s alternate costumes had her changing hair colours.

 

[SneakyLink]

Imagine if they did though... if you want to be technical, Joker’s wave had both the Tails AND Knuckles costumes return

I think the difference is both were from the same series (in this case Sonic), which has applied to almost all other instances of returning Mii costumes.

The one time this doesn't apply is Sephiroth's wave having Chocobo and Geno Mii costumes returning since despite being from the same company both are technically different franchises.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Between the two remaining Sm4sh Miis. I feel Lloyd is the most likely to return.

Especially given Xenoblade is somewhat related to Xenosaga which is Namco.

 

[ARandomZoomer]

Imagine if they did though... if you want to be technical, Joker’s wave had both the Tails AND Knuckles costumes return

Yeah that's 2 I said "more than 2"

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I never understood this "anime bad" thing. Probably because France is like the most weeb country in the world beside Japan itself, we had anime since the early 80 going on TV constantly alongside Manga while America had to wait late 90/early 2000 from what I saw.
Rarely to never saw European complain about "anime bad" seems to be an US thing

From my experience, a lot of people associated anime with Naruto, One piece and Fairy tail, which are often see as childish. I don't think people really hates anime, but there's really a big lack of knowledge about it.

Personally I'm a Canadian, and when I was young in the late 90's there was some big anime at the TV like Naruto, DBZ, Sailor moon and Pokémon, but it kind of stop there and aside from Naruto and Pokémon it never really had a huge following. Also Manga are extremely rare here (once again you could probably find some Naruto and DBZ stuff but it doesn't go more deep than that. Today anime have a pretty niche following here. There's some convention, the biggest in Quebec being by far the Otakuthon with 25 000 participants in 2019. I wouldn't really say that people hate anime, it's just that nobody really care about that.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Yeah that's 2 I said "more than 2"

Oh right there’s three since it’s both MonHuns I can’t count today

 

[cashregister9]

My mii predictions
-Nopon hat
-Zeke
-Lora
-KOS-MOS
-Lloyd

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I think the difference is both were from the same series (in this case Sonic), which has applied to almost all other instances of returning Mii costumes.

The one time this doesn't apply is Sephiroth's wave having Chocobo and Geno Mii costumes returning since despite being from the same company both are technically different franchises.

Though it helps they're tied to some degree; SMRPG is basically putting Mario in a Final Fantasy style world, and the Chocobo Costume is from an actual spin-off, but you can still find the character in FFVII. Sure, it's not exact due to the franchise being Final Fantasy VII in Smash, not Final Fantasy, but it's not really a stretch that they fit together either way.

At least it's not a grab bag set like Byleth(and others) had. Some fit nicely, some are just padding it out.