Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[3BitSaurus]

(Oh and 's Gun? From a technical standpoint it's a sword move. The very same manager points out that he wishes that Gun was treated by the game as a projectile. So yes, Joker's an anime swordsman technically.)

That... actually makes a lot of sense. Joker's gun probably uses raycasting to shoot, like you'd see in an FPS game, instead of actually firing an object as a projectile.

 

[MrMcNuts]

I believe that Ubisoft would still pick Rayman before Assassin's Creed because they've made a lot of effort to push for him in Smash Bros before. Like Ubisoft made that Rayman trophy model specifically for Smash Bros and the Rayman spirit was the only Ubisoft content in the game before the mii costumes came along so they probably still view Rayman as their character of choice.

We've also had Megaman over Resident Evil/Street Fighter and Banjo before Steve so it seems often times when they go for a new company it's for a character that the community really wants. (I know someone might say "well those scenarios are comparable cause this and that" but no matter how you cut it they still are)

Geno is an exception cause it seems square themselves don't have much interest in using him and wanna push for other characters, unlike most big requests who are usually backed by their companies saying they'd be down for it

 

[chocolatejr9]

Oh god Fortnite.

Crash... WITH A GUN!

Actually he had a bazooka in Crash 3.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think they can implement him without doing the same thing as Classic Mega Man for the buster inputs(I.E make it his jab), while still making him feel like Mega Man X.

Eh...Since Mega Man had such a hard focus on playing like he does in the source material, I think it would be kinda weird if they didn't do it for Mega Man X. They could make the X Buster the Neutral Special instead, making it some sort of Fox Laser meets Charge Shot, but that still seems like a downgrade to me, and if they copied Super Smash Flash 2's Mega Buster mechanics instead, it would be super clunky.

Though maybe because I found the weapons switching SUPER clunky in Smash Flash 2, I'd rather not do that with Mega Man X or Zero or Mega Man.EXE. ect. But maybe that can be done better in an official game. Still, I was kind of glad SSF2 change that part of Mega Man's moveset.

I personally find Mega Man's current Super Smash Flash 2 moveset to be infinitely worse in that aspect, and never really had much of a problem with the previous weapon switch mechanic, though if I were to guess I'd say the issues with it are:

• The only weapon indicators were ugly hue shifts that were inconsistent since they were based on the character's current pallet.
  • This extends to the actual selection, and those who don't have the pallets memorize (even assuming you're using the default set) won't be able to tell what they're getting at a glance.
• The selection wheel doesn't work as well as a Down Special, and the keyboard controls probably don't help either.
• Most of the weapons themselves were strange as Neutral Specials.

In theory, the idea of giving Mega Man X different armours instead of pallet swaps so he can have consistent pallet swaps for this mechanic, the current iteration of Monado Arts, and the fact that the Maverick Weapons would be emulating how they felt to use in the source material rather than being adapted for a specific move type would already fix these issues. If we were to keep the move as a Down Special, we could implement a similar selection method that uses the downward diagonals () instead of the full wheel.

And completely running out of ammo sounds really un-fun, especially if it's for more than one move. At least a re-charge like Robin's would work. But even then, Samus doesn't run out of missiles, or Link with his Bombs, nor Mega Man out of Metal Blades.

The idea is that since there's a few different weapons that you can switch between, and you have one that can always be used, you wouldn't really need any way of regaining the Weapon Energy; You either won't generally run out of Weapon Energy, or won't have too many issues if you do since you just lose access to specific tools, and can still make things happen with the ones that are infinite. In other words, he'll become less powerful over time, but doesn't get gimped by the loss of resources like other resource management characters. Kind of like Banjo & Kazooie, but to an even lesser extent.

As for your second point, the argument that "some characters don't do X so it wouldn't make sense for others to do it" doesn't really hold water. Some characters port over their resource management stuff (Steve, Hero, Banjo & Kazooie), and some don't (Ness, Mega Man, Pikachu). It really just depends on what the character design is aiming for/what it requires. In this case, resource management would probably be necessary unless all of the available weapons were specialized to the point where having them as a buster replacement wouldn't necessarily be more powerful then the buster itself, which is a possibility in all honesty since that is kind of the point with quite a few weapons.

I do think MMX's main draw should be how crazy mobile he is. Dashing, Air-Dashing, Dash-Jumping and Wall Jumps to really make him standout. That could be his mechanic, a unique dash with multiple options from it. Not just one dash attack, but two, and a unique jump from it as well, that mirrors the long jump from the Mega Man X games.

I 100% agree with this. He should definitely be faster on average than Mega Man, and while I don't know about having two dash attacks (that sounds like it would be confusing unless you were thinking about some sort of Dash Special Move, which actually sounds intriguing), but I did have an idea of his initial dash being his actual dash from the games, and jumping out of it would allow you to jump with much more momentum than you would normally.

 

[ahemtoday]

That... actually makes a lot of sense. Joker's gun probably uses raycasting to shoot, like you'd see in an FPS game, instead of actually firing an object as a projectile.

Actually, it's just one big hitbox extending out from the gun. It's like it generates a big sword for an instant. As if it were some sort of... nonsensical lightsaber gunblade.

 

[MBRedboy31]

Actually, it's just one big hitbox extending out from the gun. It's like it generates a big sword for an instant. As if it were some sort of... nonsensical lightsaber gunblade.

Isn't this also how Bayonetta's Bullet Arts (not Bullet Climax, just Bullet Arts) work, IIRC? If so, it's not a new thing for Joker.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Eh... I already feel that people stretch with their definitions of 'gimmick' but wouldn't that literally just be a visual thing?

I've seen some concepts that make it a gimmick with Rayman having boomerangs for normals or being able to throw literally all of his limbs & torso (which is just...no), but I personally think they'd just give him a long reach for a brawler.

I've also seen Super Smash Flash 2 give him non-limb related gimmicks, but they are also super clunky.

They'd likely make them disjointed as his limbs were always disjointed in the series, watch people froth at the mouth that their platforming punchy dude's disjoints mean he's a sword character

Technically they wouldn't be disjointed since the limbs would still have hitboxes, though I suppose that would only matter when other attacks win clashes.

Isn't this also how Bayonetta's Bullet Arts (not Bullet Climax, just Bullet Arts) work, IIRC? If so, it's not a new thing for Joker.

A quick search says yes, though Bullet Arts are different from Gun in that they have no knockback or hitstun or anything. Gun takes it to the next level in that regard.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Actually, it's just one big hitbox extending out from the gun. It's like it generates a big sword for an instant. As if it were some sort of... nonsensical lightsaber gunblade.

Hmm, if so then that's quite a big range for a hitbox. And my guess is that they'd still use raycasting to spawn the "hit" particles according to the distance to where the character was hit.

Though I'd still question why use a hitbox at all here - it makes more sense for continuous bursts like flamethrowers or lasers (I remember Pyro's flamethrower in the original TF was a hitbox that turned on and off).

To be honest, both explanations would make sense, because in either case there's no actual projectile, just the illusion of one.

 

[MBRedboy31]

A quick search says yes, though Bullet Arts are different from Gun in that they have no knockback or hitstun or anything. Gun takes it to the next level in that regard.

IIRC Bullet Arts do induce hitstun, but only if they hit pretty much at point blank. (Or they did in Smash 4 anyway, I'd have to check if they do in Ultimate.) So, that's not super useful, but it could mess up your opponent's close range approach if they're not expecting it.

 

[7NATOR]

Hey, so this is cross-posted from a Topic I made on Gamefaqs, but I think it could be interesting for Speculation

it Involves the Absence of Undertale Spirits, enjoy


Theory: Why Undertale spirits are missing, and what it might suggest...


Both Sans and Cuphead were both Premium Mii Costumes that came with Music, and are from Indie developers

However, Cuphead got Spirits shortly after it's release, but even now Undertale still doesn't have any Spirits. Here's 3 conclusions that I made for why this might be a thing

Undertale Spirits either weren't allowed, or weren't able to be Implemented

Toby seems to be lax with the Undertale content if Sans was any indication, but perhaps He didn't want Spirits of the Undertale characters because it might ruin the image of the game or something like that

I Imagine that Nintendo/Sakurai wouldn't not care about Undertale spirits considering that they made Spirits for Cuphead, and Undertale is more of a phenomenon in Japan and such and honestly has a more beloeved supporting cast, so if Undertale Spirits were completely absent by the time DLC is done, it was probably on Toby's part

Another Undertale Mii Costume is coming

They may save the event for after ALL the Undertale costumes are released, which would imply that Sans is not the only Undertale Mii Costume that is coming

They may have intially focused on Sans back when FP1 was the only Pass in Production, but with FP2 being greenlit later on, there could be an additional Undertale mii costume. Perhaps Frisk, Kris, or any of the Supporting characters from Undertale/Deltarune

What this might also suggest, considering the fact that we only have 2 characters left, and there by 2 Mii Costume waves, is that perhaps this might also suggest that one of these Mii Packs might have heavy substantial Indie content, Especially if you find the idea of other Indie characters like Shovel Knight or Hollow Knight getting content in this FP2. this might also suggest one of the last fighters is an Indie character. Speaking of which

Undertale might be getting a Full fighter in FP2

With the fact that Sans was added as a Mii in the 3rd pack of FP1, which is also when Extra DLC was announced (and also greenlit months before), If an Undertale character was in FP2, it would probably be one of the last, if not the last character to be added into the Pass, perhaps as a result of the Amazing reaction the Sans Mii Costume got. This would also explain why FP2 has 6 characters instead of 5

that would mean an Undertale character would have to be decided in 2 months. Perhaps when discussing Sans as a Mii, there were also talks about what a Playable Undertale character would play like. if this scenario were to take place, that would have to be how it happen since 2 Months is not alot of time to negotiate all the details of a Full Fighter in Smash, even with Indie companies

In any case, what Scenario do you think might be happening here?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

IIRC Bullet Arts do induce hitstun, but only if they hit pretty much at point blank. (Or they did in Smash 4 anyway, I'd have to check if they do in Ultimate.) So, that's not super useful, but it could mess up your opponent's close range approach if they're not expecting it.

If it does it's definitely doesn't have the range to be useful in any way (to the point where I've never seen it in action), and it probably doesn't for specific moves since it would mess up things like the Neutral Aerial. Joker still takes it to the next level in being actually practical.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

While I think a Western character has a decent chance of being one of the last two fighters, I'd be lying if I said I was as confident that its Crash as I was six months ago. Part of me still thinks Dovahkiin could be a dark horse in that regard given the decent support by Bethesda for Switch and Skyrim was an American title that the Japanese audience really embraced.

Of course this could all be based on a dubious assumption anyway and we end up with a Koei Tecmo and Konami character to end the pass, so who knows?

 

[Shroob]

Hey, so this is cross-posted from a Topic I made on Gamefaqs, but I think it could be interesting for Speculation

it Involves the Absence of Undertale Spirits, enjoy


Theory: Why Undertale spirits are missing, and what it might suggest...


Both Sans and Cuphead were both Premium Mii Costumes that came with Music, and are from Indie developers

However, Cuphead got Spirits shortly after it's release, but even now Undertale still doesn't have any Spirits. Here's 3 conclusions that I made for why this might be a thing

Undertale Spirits either weren't allowed, or weren't able to be Implemented

Toby seems to be lax with the Undertale content if Sans was any indication, but perhaps He didn't want Spirits of the Undertale characters because it might ruin the image of the game or something like that

I Imagine that Nintendo/Sakurai wouldn't not care about Undertale spirits considering that they made Spirits for Cuphead, and Undertale is more of a phenomenon in Japan and such and honestly has a more beloeved supporting cast, so if Undertale Spirits were completely absent by the time DLC is done, it was probably on Toby's part

Another Undertale Mii Costume is coming

They may save the event for after ALL the Undertale costumes are released, which would imply that Sans is not the only Undertale Mii Costume that is coming

They may have intially focused on Sans back when FP1 was the only Pass in Production, but with FP2 being greenlit later on, there could be an additional Undertale mii costume. Perhaps Frisk, Kris, or any of the Supporting characters from Undertale/Deltarune

What this might also suggest, considering the fact that we only have 2 characters left, and there by 2 Mii Costume waves, is that perhaps this might also suggest that one of these Mii Packs might have heavy substantial Indie content, Especially if you find the idea of other Indie characters like Shovel Knight or Hollow Knight getting content in this FP2. this might also suggest one of the last fighters is an Indie character. Speaking of which

Undertale might be getting a Full fighter in FP2

With the fact that Sans was added as a Mii in the 3rd pack of FP1, which is also when Extra DLC was announced (and also greenlit months before), If an Undertale character was in FP2, it would probably be one of the last, if not the last character to be added into the Pass, perhaps as a result of the Amazing reaction the Sans Mii Costume got. This would also explain why FP2 has 6 characters instead of 5

that would mean an Undertale character would have to be decided in 2 months. Perhaps when discussing Sans as a Mii, there were also talks about what a Playable Undertale character would play like. if this scenario were to take place, that would have to be how it happen since 2 Months is not alot of time to negotiate all the details of a Full Fighter in Smash, even with Indie companies

In any case, what Scenario do you think might be happening here?

Option 4: It didn't get any just because it didn't get any.

We have a lot of Mii costumes without spirits, and several new games without spirits as well, Undertale's lack of spirits isn't odd. I don't think Toby Fox would say "Oh, yeah, totally. You can put a Mii Costume of the most iconic character, and the game's most iconic song in there, but Spirits? NO WAY THAT'S TOO FAR."

 

[Guynamednelson]

Option 4: It didn't get any just because it didn't get any.

We have a lot of Mii costumes without spirits, and several new games without spirits as well, Undertale's lack of spirits isn't odd. I don't think Toby Fox would say "Oh, yeah, totally. You can put a Mii Costume of the most iconic character, and the game's most iconic song in there, but Spirits? NO WAY THAT'S TOO FAR."

Plus, do people expecting an Undertale challenger pack honestly think they wouldn't have waited for it to put in a new Megalovania remix by Toby Fox? That is something you definitely save for a challenger pack, not a Mii costume.

 

[7NATOR]

Option 4: It didn't get any just because it didn't get any.

We have a lot of Mii costumes without spirits, and several new games without spirits as well, Undertale's lack of spirits isn't odd. I don't think Toby Fox would say "Oh, yeah, totally. You can put a Mii Costume of the most iconic character, and the game's most iconic song in there, but Spirits? NO WAY THAT'S TOO FAR."

I would think if Cuphead got some Spirits, that Undertale would also get some Spirits. they pretty much are in very Similiar situations in regards to the attention paid to the characters as costumes

I acknowledge that not every Costume gets Spirit events, But I think with the situaition regarding Sans and Cuphead, I think it's very notable that one did get Spirits, and the other did not, Especially since Undertale in Japan I believe was a bigger deal

Now the reason I acknowledge that Toby wouldn't want to have Spirits is perhaps that it would ruin the message of the game to have Spirit fights of Undertale characters or something like that. Sans may be a costume, but perhaps the situations were different

Plus, do people expecting an Undertale challenger pack honestly think they wouldn't have waited for it to put in a new Megalovania remix by Toby Fox? That is something you definitely save for a challenger pack, not a Mii costume.

Honestly, of the options I laid out in My post, I'm leaning towards option 2, in that there may be another Undertale costume

The theory that an Undertale character was chosen after the exciting reaction to the Sans costume, in 1-2 months before the FP2 was finalized (and would expalin why there are 6 instead of 5 fighters in FP2), is perhaps possible, especially if Toby and Sakurai already did talk about the possible Undertale full character while talking about Sans mii, but honestly I'm not sure that scenario is what happened

I think it may be more likely that with FP2 being greenlit, and New mii costumes that have to be made for the upcoming waves, that it's possible they contacted Toby if he wants another Mii or something. After all, I Imagine alot of the Indie content was either gotten for a very low price, or in some cases, possible for Free since I Imagine these Indies would do that to bring more the attention towards their game.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Hey, so this is cross-posted from a Topic I made on Gamefaqs, but I think it could be interesting for Speculation

it Involves the Absence of Undertale Spirits, enjoy


Theory: Why Undertale spirits are missing, and what it might suggest...


Both Sans and Cuphead were both Premium Mii Costumes that came with Music, and are from Indie developers

However, Cuphead got Spirits shortly after it's release, but even now Undertale still doesn't have any Spirits. Here's 3 conclusions that I made for why this might be a thing

Undertale Spirits either weren't allowed, or weren't able to be Implemented

Toby seems to be lax with the Undertale content if Sans was any indication, but perhaps He didn't want Spirits of the Undertale characters because it might ruin the image of the game or something like that

I Imagine that Nintendo/Sakurai wouldn't not care about Undertale spirits considering that they made Spirits for Cuphead, and Undertale is more of a phenomenon in Japan and such and honestly has a more beloeved supporting cast, so if Undertale Spirits were completely absent by the time DLC is done, it was probably on Toby's part

Another Undertale Mii Costume is coming

They may save the event for after ALL the Undertale costumes are released, which would imply that Sans is not the only Undertale Mii Costume that is coming

They may have intially focused on Sans back when FP1 was the only Pass in Production, but with FP2 being greenlit later on, there could be an additional Undertale mii costume. Perhaps Frisk, Kris, or any of the Supporting characters from Undertale/Deltarune

What this might also suggest, considering the fact that we only have 2 characters left, and there by 2 Mii Costume waves, is that perhaps this might also suggest that one of these Mii Packs might have heavy substantial Indie content, Especially if you find the idea of other Indie characters like Shovel Knight or Hollow Knight getting content in this FP2. this might also suggest one of the last fighters is an Indie character. Speaking of which

Undertale might be getting a Full fighter in FP2

With the fact that Sans was added as a Mii in the 3rd pack of FP1, which is also when Extra DLC was announced (and also greenlit months before), If an Undertale character was in FP2, it would probably be one of the last, if not the last character to be added into the Pass, perhaps as a result of the Amazing reaction the Sans Mii Costume got. This would also explain why FP2 has 6 characters instead of 5

that would mean an Undertale character would have to be decided in 2 months. Perhaps when discussing Sans as a Mii, there were also talks about what a Playable Undertale character would play like. if this scenario were to take place, that would have to be how it happen since 2 Months is not alot of time to negotiate all the details of a Full Fighter in Smash, even with Indie companies

In any case, what Scenario do you think might be happening here?

There are no spirits because Toby Fox is afraid of ghosts.

 

[cashregister9]

ATLUS Director Kazuyuki Yamai has a special message for all #SMT3 fans!

Shin Megami Tensei III Nocturne HD Remaster is coming to Nintendo Switch, PlayStation 4, and Steam on May 25, 2021.

Pre-order now: https://t.co/mvmrIhWslG pic.twitter.com/56l8ZXrjH9

— Official ATLUS West (@Atlus_West) March 19, 2021

Nocturne HD is coming to the west

It's a good game. not necessarily the HD one, The regular one is real good though

lowkey #Demifiend4smash

 

[Guynamednelson]

Honestly, of the options I laid out in My post, I'm leaning towards option 2, in that there may be another Undertale costume

Even if it comes with another song, it's still not going to be as big of a deal as Sans+Megalovania. This is why Smash has been able to do two DLC packs surrounding Final Fantasy VII, because FFVII's equivalent to Megalovania wasn't in Smash until Sephiroth's pack.

 

[7NATOR]

Even if it comes with another song, it's still not going to be as big of a deal as Sans+Megalovania. This is why Smash has been able to do two DLC packs surrounding Final Fantasy VII, because FFVII's equivalent to Megalovania wasn't in Smash until Sephiroth's pack.

I don't think I said it would be a bigger deal than that

I'm just saying that there may be another Undertale costume, and that they might Save the Spirit event until ALL the costumes are laid out, especially since as Cuphead shows, they do use the Costumes in the spirit battles sometime.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I would think if Cuphead got some Spirits, that Undertale would also get some Spirits. they pretty much are in very Similiar situations in regards to the attention paid to the characters as costumes

I acknowledge that not every Costume gets Spirit events, But I think with the situaition regarding Sans and Cuphead, I think it's very notable that one did get Spirits, and the other did not, Especially since Undertale in Japan I believe was a bigger deal

Now the reason I acknowledge that Toby wouldn't want to have Spirits is perhaps that it would ruin the message of the game to have Spirit fights of Undertale characters or something like that. Sans may be a costume, but perhaps the situations were different

IIRC, Microsoft was the one that opened communications for Cuphead content, so it's likely that the two situations are entirely different if that was indeed the case.

I highly doubt that Toby Fox wouldn't approve of Spirits when he approved of what lead to Cursed Sans Bros.

 

[Shroob]

I would think if Cuphead got some Spirits, that Undertale would also get some Spirits. they pretty much are in very Similiar situations in regards to the attention paid to the characters as costumes

I acknowledge that not every Costume gets Spirit events, But I think with the situaition regarding Sans and Cuphead, I think it's very notable that one did get Spirits, and the other did not, Especially since Undertale in Japan I believe was a bigger deal

Now the reason I acknowledge that Toby wouldn't want to have Spirits is perhaps that it would ruin the message of the game to have Spirit fights of Undertale characters or something like that. Sans may be a costume, but perhaps the situations were different



Honestly, of the options I laid out in My post, I'm leaning towards option 2, in that there may be another Undertale costume

The theory that an Undertale character was chosen after the exciting reaction to the Sans costume, in 1-2 months before the FP2 was finalized (and would expalin why there are 6 instead of 5 fighters in FP2), is perhaps possible, especially if Toby and Sakurai already did talk about the possible Undertale full character while talking about Sans mii, but honestly I'm not sure that scenario is what happened

I think it may be more likely that with FP2 being greenlit, and New mii costumes that have to be made for the upcoming waves, that it's possible they contacted Toby if he wants another Mii or something. After all, I Imagine alot of the Indie content was either gotten for a very low price, or in some cases, possible for Free since I Imagine these Indies would do that to bring more the attention towards their game.

Cuphead had an event right after its costume came out, like, almost literally right after.

Undertale didn't.


There's no big conspiracy, that's just the simple answer.

 

[7NATOR]

IIRC, Microsoft was the one that opened communications for Cuphead content, so it's likely that the two situations are entirely different if that was indeed the case.

I highly doubt that Toby Fox wouldn't approve of Spirits when he approved of what lead to Cursed Sans Bros.

But wouldn't it be easier then to get Undertale spirits than Cuphead spirits, since It would take Microsoft to get access to the Cuphead content, in this scenraio, while with Undertale it's just on Toby's word

That's why I say if no Spirits happened, it might have been more on Toby than on Nintendo/Sakurai

Cuphead had an event right after its costume came out, like, almost literally right after.

Undertale didn't.


There's no big conspiracy, that's just the simple answer.

But I'm trying to figure out why Shroob. What you listed was the conclusion of what has happened with the DLC so far, but not why it happened. I'm Speculating on why there doesn't seem to be Undertale spirits after all this time

Personally what I'm thinking is that if Toby was actually down for Spirits, than perhaps with FP2, they might save those spirits for another Undertale costume that might come in FP2

I think that in the upcoming future, there may be some substantial Indie content that will be coming. This is not just because of Undertale, but also with the absence of Shovel Knight as a costume, since Yacht Club loves shoving Shovel Knight into everything and we see that Bomberman was able to be Assist to Costume promotion in FP2.

Now whether this content is just NPC content or a character, I'm not sure. Smash 4 did have one moment where they just released a costume wave Separately, and with Pyra/Mythra in this game, their Mii costume wave was completely divorced from the actual character representing the challenger pack (as well as Byleth and Banjo)

 

[Shroob]

But wouldn't it be easier then to get Undertale spirits than Cuphead spirits, since It would take Microsoft to get access to the Cuphead content, in this scenraio, while with Undertale it's just on Toby's word

That's why I say if no Spirits happened, it might have been more on Toby than on Nintendo/Sakurai



But I'm trying to figure out why Shroob. What you listed was the conclusion of what has happened with the DLC so far, but not why it happened. I'm Speculating on why there doesn't seem to be Undertale spirits after all this time

Personally what I'm thinking is that if Toby was actually down for Spirits, than perhaps with FP2, they might save those spirits for another Undertale costume that might come in FP2

I think that in the upcoming future, there may be some substantial Indie content that will be coming. This is not just because of Undertale, but also with the absence of Shovel Knight as a costume, since Yacht Club loves shoving Shovel Knight into everything and we see that Bomberman was able to be Assist to Costume promotion in FP2.

Now whether this content is just NPC content or a character, I'm not sure. Smash 4 did have one moment where they just released a costume wave Separately, and with Pyra/Mythra in this game, their Mii costume wave was completely divorced from the actual character representing the challenger pack (as well as Byleth and Banjo)

The simple answer is: We don't know why. We can speculate all day, but in the end, we don't know why. This idea that "It was on Toby" though is a bit silly, because he's 100% okay with letting Sans get the **** kicked out of him.... but spirit events are somehow not okay? C'mon now, that's silly.


Maybe Nintendo, just... didn't want them? Why hasn't Luigi's Mansion 3 gotten anything? Or Yoshi's Crafted World? Or a handful of 3rd party ips on the Switch? Hell, Vault Boy's a Premium Mii, yet he doesn't have a Spirit either.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Even if it comes with another song, it's still not going to be as big of a deal as Sans+Megalovania. This is why Smash has been able to do two DLC packs surrounding Final Fantasy VII, because FFVII's equivalent to Megalovania wasn't in Smash until Sephiroth's pack.

Keep in mind that the stuff in both passes were not decided at the same time (unless Mii Costumes were selected throughout, but I doubt that). This was confirmed when they stated that Rex was considered for Pyra/Mythra's slot, and they kind of implied that this would have been the decision if the idea didn't exceed hardware limitations. If Undertale made the second round, nothing in the first pass would stop that.

As for impact, Megalovania might be the most well known tune, but Undertale is known for having an amazing soundtrack, and having an Undertale character, be it Frisk or Sans, would definitely be more impactful than just the costume.

What I wonder is how the stage would look. The game's flat colors aren't all that great for this context, and I struggle to picture what changes would be made to make it fit in to Super Smash Bros. Ultimate's artstyle.

But wouldn't it be easier then to get Undertale spirits than Cuphead spirits, since It would take Microsoft to get access to the Cuphead content, in this scenraio, while with Undertale it's just on Toby's word

Not really. If I'm not misinformed, the scenario is that Microsoft was already getting approached for Banjo & Kazooie, and they in turn approached Nintendo about Cuphead stuff while they were still communicating. Microsoft is obviously a willing party here, and might have been able to negotiate for more out of the deal than Studio MDHR or Toby Fox (for Undertale stuff) could.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Why hasn't Luigi's Mansion 3 gotten anything?

Smash was where the Poltergust G-00 was first revealed though. This may make Nintendo think Luigi is already the LM3 promotion, and a spirit event/challenger pack is unnecessary to promote it.

 

[Shroob]

Smash was where the Poltergust G-00 was first revealed though. This may make Nintendo think Luigi is already the LM3 promotion, and a spirit event/challenger pack is unnecessary to promote it.

You say that, but Ultimate had XB2 music in from day one, and we got Pyra/Mythra 2 years later.

 

[Guynamednelson]

You say that, but Ultimate had XB2 music in from day one, and we got Pyra/Mythra 2 years later.

But was Ultimate where anything Xenoblade-related was first revealed to the world prior to Pyra's challenger pack? That's the difference, I believe the base game XBC2 content was just there to have some, while the LM3 content was more promotional.

 

[Staarih]

But I'm trying to figure out why Shroob. What you listed was the conclusion of what has happened with the DLC so far, but not why it happened. I'm Speculating on why there doesn't seem to be Undertale spirits after all this time

I'm totally with you that Undertale may have something fishy going on with no spirits and Toby being very buddy-buddy with Nintendo these days and Undertale thriving in Japan, alongside the decisions regarding Pass 2 occurring potentially around the time of Sans' costume, and the fact that we got a sixth "extra" character which may imply a late decision or just a quick, more minor addition etc etc...

...but in the end it's impossible to know and there's always the possibility of something happening/not happening for no reason whatsoever. I appreciate the speculation though and that's why we're all here I guess lol. I'd love an Undetale pass tbh.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

ATLUS Director Kazuyuki Yamai has a special message for all #SMT3 fans!

Shin Megami Tensei III Nocturne HD Remaster is coming to Nintendo Switch, PlayStation 4, and Steam on May 25, 2021.

Pre-order now: https://t.co/mvmrIhWslG pic.twitter.com/56l8ZXrjH9

— Official ATLUS West (@Atlus_West) March 19, 2021

Nocturne HD is coming to the west

It's a good game. Play it.

lowkey #Demifiend4smash

Sadly I recommend waiting for a sale, fun fact, Atlus ****ed up this so hard that the Russian Steam page has Nocturne HD cost more than RE8, NieR Replicant and Cyberpunk combined

 

[SharkLord]

You say that, but Ultimate had XB2 music in from day one, and we got Pyra/Mythra 2 years later.

That, and the fact that we had the Min Min promotion, despite ARMS already having the Spring Man AT. Not sure if we can just say "Well, it already has something. It's not getting any more."

That being said, regarding an entire pack, I think Luigi and his Poltergust grabs might be enough playable representation for LM3. It doesn't make up the bulk of his moveset, but it's still Luigi and he still has a Poltergust, and that's the character and weapon you use in LM3. It's not like ARMS and XC2, which only had the AT and Mii Costumes; Those aren't on the big CSS, and aren't as obvious. Luigi's right there, both in the roster and in Luigi's Mansion-Heck, he's right there in the name. We could get an LM3 pack with King Boo or Gooigi or whoever as a fighter, but I'm a bit hesitant on that idea.

 

[cashregister9]

Sadly I recommend waiting for a sale, fun fact, Atlus ****ed up this so hard that the Russian Steam page has Nocturne HD cost more than RE8, NieR Replicant and Cyberpunk combined

Oof. Not converting currency properly strikes again.

I also heard some shenanigans involving the game itself having some terrible audio.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Not sure if we can just say "Well, it already has something. It's not getting any more."

I usually agree, but isn't it kind of a big deal that Simon's trailer gave us our first hint that LM3 is coming?

 

[7NATOR]

The simple answer is: We don't know why. We can speculate all day, but in the end, we don't know why. This idea that "It was on Toby" though is a bit silly, because he's 100% okay with letting Sans get the **** kicked out of him.... but spirit events are somehow not okay? C'mon now, that's silly.


Maybe Nintendo, just... didn't want them? Why hasn't Luigi's Mansion 3 gotten anything? Or Yoshi's Crafted World? Or a handful of 3rd party ips on the Switch? Hell, Vault Boy's a Premium Mii, yet he doesn't have a Spirit either.

I mean. I acknowledge that I don't know exactly why

But That's exactly why I'm speculating about why the Undertale spirits are missing, because this is a Speculation thread for Smash Ultimate DLC. We wouldn't be speculating if we already knew what was coming in the future. What's the point of speculating who the Last 2 fighters are if the Last 2 Fighters were already revealed

Now yeah I agree that It might be a bit silly for Toby not to agree to Spirits if he added Sans costume, and I will say that it's possible that Nintendo didn't just want them in

But It's also possible that Toby is a silly man
or that it's possible there may be a Undertale costume in the future
or even that there may be a Full Undertale Fighter in FP2

Keep in mind that the stuff in both passes were not decided at the same time (unless Mii Costumes were selected throughout, but I doubt that). This was confirmed when they stated that Rex was considered for Pyra/Mythra's slot, and they kind of implied that this would have been the decision if the idea didn't exceed hardware limitations. If Undertale made the second round, nothing in the first pass would stop that.

As for impact, Megalovania might be the most well known tune, but Undertale is known for having an amazing soundtrack, and having an Undertale character, be it Frisk or Sans, would definitely be more impactful than just the costume.

What I wonder is how the stage would look. The game's flat colors aren't all that great for this context, and I struggle to picture what changes would be made to make it fit in to Super Smash Bros. Ultimate's artstyle.


Not really. If I'm not misinformed, the scenario is that Microsoft was already getting approached for Banjo & Kazooie, and they in turn approached Nintendo about Cuphead stuff while they were still communicating. Microsoft is obviously a willing party here, and might have been able to negotiate for more out of the deal than Studio MDHR or Toby Fox (for Undertale stuff) could.

-I think Vault Boy could have been in talks around the time FP1 was in production or talks, considering Bethesda did say they talked to Nintendo about Smash around E3 of 2018.

-And possible Microsoft could have been the Bridge that allowed more content to come for Cuphead than Undertale, in terms of there being Spirits. I mean I guess I could see it if Nintendo were trying to do the bare minimum, and may have not wanted to do Cuphead spirits, but Microsoft foreced them to have Spirits for Cuphead, but if Toby was more lax, they may have not wanted to do Undertale Spirits at all

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Oof. Not converting currency properly strikes again.

I also heard some shenanigans involving the game itself having some terrible audio.

Oh, the audio's because of something else Atlus ****ed up, the original game's audio was compressed as hell because of technical limitations yet they didn't fix it. They can't even use the official OST release which has good quality as it doesn't use all the dynamic songs

 

[SharkLord]

I usually agree, but isn't it kind of a big deal that Simon's trailer gave us our first hint that LM3 is coming?

Not that much. One of XC2's main characters was used as an incentive for the entire pass, and it still got a pack later on.

Either way, I think the advertising focus for other games would be in SSBU itself, not the trailers. You're not going to go "Oh hey, it's (X) from the trailers," you're going "Oh hey, it's (X) from the Super Smash game." LM3 got base game representation, like ARMS and XC2, and while playable representation is more than a Mii or an AT, it's not because it was in a trailer. It was just in there because Luigi uses it in his moveset, and he was in Simon's trailer; Therefore, the Poltergust gets used in that trailer.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

But was Ultimate where anything Xenoblade-related was first revealed to the world prior to Pyra's challenger pack? That's the difference, I believe the base game XBC2 content was just there to have some, while the LM3 content was more promotional.

That doesn't really make sense though. It's a small detail in a trailer for a completely unrelated set of characters for a mostly unrelated game that gives no additional context. The only people who were going to suspect a new game were hawk eyed fans of the series, so it's pretty terrible for promotional purposes.

Xenoblade Chronicles 2 was promoted better since it was actually name dropped.

 

[Pillow]

We've also had Megaman over Resident Evil/Street Fighter and Banjo before Steve so it seems often times when they go for a new company it's for a character that the community really wants. (I know someone might say "well those scenarios are comparable cause this and that" but no matter how you cut it they still are)

Geno is an exception cause it seems square themselves don't have much interest in using him and wanna push for other characters, unlike most big requests who are usually backed by their companies saying they'd be down for it

Tbf, I think Cloud would've been a very popular community request if people considered him a real possibility. Back then "Nintendo affiliation" felt like something that actually mattered. And the popularity Geno is kind of an anomaly in and of itself, considering he's not even the main character of the only game he's appeared in.

But yeah, I could see it going either way to Rayman/Ezio/Whoever in the scenario that we're ever guaranteed a Ubisoft character.

 

[SharkLord]

Tbf, I think Cloud would've been a very popular community request if people considered him a real possibility. Back then "Nintendo affiliation" felt like something that actually mattered. And the popularity Geno is kind of an anomaly in and of itself, considering he's not even the main character of the only game he's appeared in.

But yeah, I could see it going either way to Rayman/Ezio/Whoever in the scenario that we're ever guaranteed a Ubisoft character.

At the very least, he was still the most frequent Final Fantasy request
Sakurai x Nomura: Creator Interview 2016 [Part One] – Source Gaming

Sakurai: This isn’t an exact number, but among the requests for a Final Fantasy character to appear in Smash, around ¼ to ⅓ of the requests we got from fans were for Cloud. [TN1] I really wanted to answer the desires of those fans, and even though I thought it would be impossible, I reached out anyway, just to try.

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

Your reaction:

The final two characters are revealed AT THE SAME TIME at... whatever E3 equivalent Nintendo maybe holds.

And they are... Shadow the Hedgehog and Waluigi, two Assist promotions!

Radical Highway and Waluigi Pinball stages. (Though I'd prefer Mario Party 3 Waluigi Island)

SOMEHOW this actually happens.


Whaddaya say? Do you react violently or non-violently?

 

[Idon]

Can't wait for Demi-fiend, Jack Frost, and Pixie spirits.