Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[DanganZilla5]

Does anyone think Rayman could fit into the whole supposed Pass 2 Pattern of characters regarding characters that were left out of Base game or "fixing/patching" it up?

Given Rayman was a trophy in Ultimate. It's a possibility he was considered for Ultimate in Base game.

I'm not sure if he would fit the theory as much as the other fighters in this pass. But Rayman in general has had an odd history in Smash. He was the only third party character in Smash 4 to have a trophy (Aside from the other third party characters who brought some trophies with them). Nintendo and Ubisoft are so close and yet they don't have a single rep yet. And there is also the Rayman in the ice situation which may or may not be just a trick of the eyes.

On another note, I may get some flack for this, but I don't see Rayman happening for this pass. His games did not do well in Japan and if we get another western character, it's going to be either Crash or Dragonborn.

 

[Peripuff]

I wonder also if for SEGA, Arle (and maybe Tee) could be included

If they included Puyo Puyo characters I would buy the game on the spot. Although I’d probably sooner expect Amitie or Ringo over Tee.

 

[DanganZilla5]

Or maybe Solaire of Astora?

Case in point. All 3 companies have so many series it's mind-numbing.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

BrawlFan1's latest video on an Unova Pokemon Trainer.

 

[chocolatejr9]

BrawlFan1's latest video on an Unova Pokemon Trainer.

Permission to resume discussion of the Boogeyman known as a Gen 8 Pokemon?

 

[Deleted member]

Not enough love for Klavier’s theme in this Ace Attorney music discussion

 

[ShrimpScampi]

That concert is putting me in an Ace Attorney mood. Which songs would you all like to see in a Phoenix challenger pack? I know a lot of you will say "every song!" rightfully so, but in terms of a realistic song pack I think the following would be great:

• Cornered
• Objection 2001
• Steel Samurai theme
• Pursuit - Questioned
• Announce The Truth 2002
• Pursuit - Caught
• Objection 2004
• Announce The Truth 2004
• Pursuit - Overtaken
• Pursuit - Keep Pressing On
• Objection 2013
• Pursuit - Cornering Together
• Objection 2016
• A New Chapter of Trails 2016
• Athena Courtroom Revolutionnaire 2016

I think there is a slim chance we could get an Investigations song or two and if they want to help promote The Great Ace Attorney they could throw in a couple songs from there too.

I definitely have more thoughts on what music tracks I’d want to see, but I’ll have to save that post for after work. For now, I’ll say that one thing I hope for is a remix that completely changes the style from the original. Whether that’s a battle remix of Godot’s theme, a DL-6 Reminiscence remix, or a symphonic rock remix of the Blue Badger theme, I love the idea of the more subdued tracks getting reworked into a battle music context. One of my favorite AA fan remixes I’ve seen online is a really good example of this:

Spoiler: AA3 Villain Theme

 

[DanganZilla5]

See what I mean? Ace Attorney has top tier music. It probably has the best soundtracks I've ever heard. Period.

 

[Staarih]

Does anyone think Rayman could fit into the whole supposed Pass 2 Pattern of characters regarding characters that were left out of Base game or "fixing/patching" it up?

Given Rayman was a trophy in Ultimate. It's a possibility he was considered for Ultimate in Base game.

I think the Rayman trophies in Smash 4 happened because Nintendo published Rayman Legends for the Wii U in Japan, essentially representing a game under Nintendo like all other trophies. The spirit in Ultimate was probably just to go from trophies to something instead of nothing. Similarly, I think Nintendo being the ones to publish Shovel Knight for the 3DS in Japan was a contributing factor in adding SK assist in Ultimate, nothing more nothing less.

I don't know if the "second chance" theory works for Rayman but I do think he is cool and deserving though, being a known long-lasting game series (at least in Europe) with a unique gimmick in floating limbs. I wouldn't mind him getting in, though I'm not sure where the Rayman series stands atm.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I'm not sure if he would fit the theory as much as the other fighters in this pass. But Rayman in general has had an odd history in Smash. He was the only third party character in Smash 4 to have a trophy (Aside from the other third party characters who brought some trophies with them). Nintendo and Ubisoft are so close and yet they don't have a single rep yet. And there is also the Rayman in the ice situation which may or may not be just a trick of the eyes.

On another note, I may get some flack for this, but I don't see Rayman happening for this pass. His games did not do well in Japan and if we get another western character, it's going to be either Crash or Dragonborn.

In Smash 4 there was another third party trophy with no fighters: it was the commander video from the Bit trip series.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

In Smash 4 there was another third party trophy with no fighters: it was the commander video from the Bit trip series.

And yet there’s no Spirit of him in Ultimate... wonder why

 

[Cutie Gwen]

with a unique gimmick in floating limbs

Eh... I already feel that people stretch with their definitions of 'gimmick' but wouldn't that literally just be a visual thing?

 

[Peripuff]

More Ace Attorney is incredible, I’ll definitely be checking this orchestra out. I love that franchise’s ost sooooo much.

 

[Technomage]

Eh... I already feel that people stretch with their definitions of 'gimmick' but wouldn't that literally just be a visual thing?

I think it depends on whether or not his hurtboxes are connected (as in is it possible to hurt his "legs, arms, or neck?").

 

[Dinoman96]

I still think Rayman Legends remaining a Wii U exclusive published by Nintendo in Japan is one of the reasons Rayman is even in Smash at all.

Like his spirit in Ultimate is literally grouped with the misc Nintendo IPs like like Wonderful 101 and the base game ARMS spirits, rather than being thrown at the end with Bomberman/Akira/Shantae. It's the same thing with Shovel Knight, whose game was also published by Nintendo in Japan. Smash seems to treat them as quasi-Nintendo characters in that regard.

 

[Staarih]

Eh... I already feel that people stretch with their definitions of 'gimmick' but wouldn't that literally just be a visual thing?

Yeah, it was the first word that came to mind haha. But mostly just a visual thing, nonetheless, something unique.

 

[MrMcNuts]

Does anyone think Rayman could fit into the whole supposed Pass 2 Pattern of characters regarding characters that were left out of Base game or "fixing/patching" it up?

Given Rayman was a trophy in Ultimate. It's a possibility he was considered for Ultimate in Base game.

It's possible. Nintendo didn't publish the switch version of Legends in Japan so it's not like they had any recent obligations to include him. And we know Ubisoft has pushed for him before so it's possible his spirit is a result of some behind the scenes stuff, it's not like the Mario rabbids where they may be partially nintedo owned so it's a no brained to have them in.

Of course I'll be hit with the whole not popular in Japan thing but I'd definitely say he's a candidate for the theory

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I think it depends on whether or not his hurtboxes are connected (as in is it possible to hurt his "legs, arms, or neck?").

They'd likely make them disjointed as his limbs were always disjointed in the series, watch people froth at the mouth that their platforming punchy dude's disjoints mean he's a sword character

 

[MrMcNuts]

Eh... I already feel that people stretch with their definitions of 'gimmick' but wouldn't that literally just be a visual thing?

I mean the fact that he's not bound by limbs opens up the possibilities to pull off some crazy moves with a smidge of imagination

I still think Rayman Legends remaining a Wii U exclusive published by Nintendo in Japan is one of the reasons Rayman is even in Smash at all.

Like his spirit in Ultimate is literally grouped with the misc Nintendo IPs like like Wonderful 101 and the base game ARMS spirits, rather than being thrown at the end with Bomberman/Akira/Shantae. It's the same thing with Shovel Knight, whose game was also published by Nintendo in Japan. Smash seems to treat them as quasi-Nintendo characters in that regard.

That was way back in 2013 though, and when legends came to switch in Japan it was published by Ubisoft themselves. Regardless of publishing a game they still don't own the Rayman IP, so some contact and negotiation had to be made to allow his spirit despite where it's placed on the spirit list

 

[Peripuff]

I still think Rayman Legends remaining a Wii U exclusive published by Nintendo in Japan is one of the reasons Rayman is even in Smash at all.

Like his spirit in Ultimate is literally grouped with the misc Nintendo IPs like like Wonderful 101 and the base game ARMS spirits, rather than being thrown at the end with Bomberman/Akira/Shantae. It's the same thing with Shovel Knight, whose game was also published by Nintendo in Japan. Smash seems to treat them as quasi-Nintendo characters in that regard.

I mean, the spirit order for Rayman in particular makes practically no sense in a lot of ways. The franchises are sorted by debut order, and yet Rayman is at the tail end of the list. I suppose it’s possible they were using a more recent game such as Rayman Legends (forgive me if that game actually came out way earlier than I think it did, I’m not very well versed on Rayman). Not to discount your point, since it does make sense, but that’s just something I wanted to comment on.

 

[MBRedboy31]

I think it depends on whether or not his hurtboxes are connected (as in is it possible to hurt his "legs, arms, or neck?").

There are some minor but still unique hitbox quirks that’d come with it.

As an example, in SSF2, Rayman’s forward air is a basic forwards kick with decent range. It lingers briefly, so you can fastfall onto an enemy to hit them with the weak late hit. However, since the lingering hitbox is only on Rayman’s foot and there’s nothing in between, you have to space it well or it won’t hit the opponent at all.

But yeah, that’s pretty minor. (The most gimmicky thing in SSF2 Rayman’s moveset is the Plum, which is basically a bouncy Rolling Crate that he can summon that anyone can ride around by attacking it while standing on it.)

 

[Cutie Gwen]

the possibilities to pull off some crazy moves with a smidge of imagination

It's still not a gimmick, a gimmick is a gameplay mechanic that's mostly unique to the character, exceptions being characters who come out afterwards getting it. I don't doubt Rayman'd have enough to work with, but I object to calling it a gimmick, it'd be like saying Isabelle has a gimmick because no other character has such a small up smash

 

[SpecterFlower]

chocolatejr9, post: 24329344, member: 406621"]
Question, has Crash's revival been particularly successful in Japan?

N. Sane Trilogy did pretty well, but I don't think they succeeded to catch younger generations' attention.
[/QUOTE]
Crash 4 didn't do though the greatest though, im forgetting the numbers but they don't paint a pretty picture

 

[SKX31]

N. Sane Trilogy did pretty well, but I don't think they succeeded to catch younger generations' attention.

If I may ask, what has gotten younger gens' attention over there? Seen scattered reports - primarily mobile games like Identity V and Knives Out - but would like to know the console area as well.

They'd likely make them disjointed as his limbs were always disjointed in the series, watch people froth at the mouth that their platforming punchy dude's disjoints mean he's a sword character

I mean, some within the competitive scene like Tweek's coach have started calling a (super-)swordie, so Rayman would be right at home.

(Oh and 's Gun? From a technical standpoint it's a sword move. The very same manager points out that he wishes that Gun was treated by the game as a projectile. So yes, Joker's an anime swordsman technically.)

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Crash 4 didn't do though the greatest though, im forgetting the numbers but they don't paint a pretty picture

The only numbers you could have pulled this from are UK physical sales, which would be concerning if we conviniently forget that a pandemic may have people decide not tp go for a physical copy

 

[SNEKeater]

Not enough love for Klavier’s theme in this Ace Attorney music discussion

**** how I could have forgotten Klavier's theme.

This track should come with Phoenix if he ever gets in Smash.

 

[Technomage]

If I may ask, what has gotten younger gens' attention over there? Seen scattered reports - primarily mobile games like Identity V and Knives Out - but would like to know the console area as well.



I mean, some within the competitive scene like Tweek's coach have started calling a (super-)swordie, so Rayman would be right at home.

(Oh and 's Gun? From a technical standpoint it's a sword move. The very same manager points out that he wishes that Gun was treated by the game as a projectile. So yes, Joker's an anime swordsman technically.)

Plus, he uses a knife for melee combat (knives are like tiny swords).

 

[osby]

If I may ask, what has gotten younger gens' attention over there? Seen scattered reports - primarily mobile games like Identity V and Knives Out - but would like to know the console area as well.



I mean, some within the competitive scene like Tweek's coach have started calling a (super-)swordie, so Rayman would be right at home.

(Oh and 's Gun? From a technical standpoint it's a sword move. The very same manager points out that he wishes that Gun was treated by the game as a projectile. So yes, Joker's an anime swordsman technically.)

Jokes on you, people were already calling Joker a swordie because of his knife.

 

[chocolatejr9]

The only numbers you could have pulled this from are UK physical sales, which would be concerning if we conviniently forget that a pandemic may have people decide not tp go for a physical copy

Actually, I think they're talking about the recent Famitsu thing.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Actually, I think they're talking about the recent Famitsu thing.

Specter was replying to that, so I think it's a safe guess that she's referring to the dishonest articles claiming that Crash 4 underperformed in the west too

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I have this odd feeling that neither Crash nor Rayman are coming along this pass. I don't think I have any foundation to base that on but it's a shame if I'm right because either one of those would be a stellar addition.

I'm also not wholly confident Rayman would be the Ubisoft character chosen, as much as I would love him, because Assassin's Creed is a hard franchise to ignore when it's approaching it's 15th Anniversary and has remained relevant and absurdly popular for the vast majority of those 15 years. I'm an Assassin's Creed fan about as much as I am a Rayman fan so either is good with me but at this point I'm wondering if this'll be a Snake before of Simon type inclusion.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I have this odd feeling that neither Crash nor Rayman are coming along this pass. I don't think I have any foundation to base that on but it's a shame if I'm right because either one of those would be a stellar addition.

I'm also not wholly confident Rayman would be the Ubisoft character chosen, as much as I would love him, because Assassin's Creed is a hard franchise to ignore when it's approaching it's 15th Anniversary and has remained relevant and absurdly popular for the vast majority of those 15 years. I'm an Assassin's Creed fan about as much as I am a Rayman fan so either is good with me but at this point I'm wondering if this'll be a Snake before of Simon type inclusion.

Can't remember but was it Pass 1 or 2 where we got the Altair Mii because otherwise I feel that would disqualify Assassins.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I have this odd feeling that neither Crash nor Rayman are coming along this pass. I don't think I have any foundation to base that on but it's a shame if I'm right because either one of those would be a stellar addition.

I'm also not wholly confident Rayman would be the Ubisoft character chosen, as much as I would love him, because Assassin's Creed is a hard franchise to ignore when it's approaching it's 15th Anniversary and has remained relevant and absurdly popular for the vast majority of those 15 years. I'm an Assassin's Creed fan about as much as I am a Rayman fan so either is good with me but at this point I'm wondering if this'll be a Snake before of Simon type inclusion.

If one of them is coming, it won't be as Fighter 11, that much I'm certain of. Heck, while definetly not impossible, Fighter 10 might actually be pushing it a little...

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Can't remember but was it Pass 1 or 2 where we got the Altair Mii because otherwise I feel that would disqualify Assassins.

They came with Byleth so they lie right there in the uber grey area.

 

[SpecterFlower]

The only numbers you could have pulled this from are UK physical sales, which would be concerning if we conviniently forget that a pandemic may have people decide not tp go for a physical copy

no Japanese sales, I've never looked at a UK sales chart in my life

here are the ps4 numbers last crash 4 charted 13,917 . that's all the physical it sold through, I believe the switch port did around 2k

from https://sites.google.com/site/gamedatalibrary/game-search

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Can't remember but was it Pass 1 or 2 where we got the Altair Mii because otherwise I feel that would disqualify Assassins.

I feel like it was probably in Byleth’s pack so pass 1

FRICK! ’d

 

[Brother AJ]

Gee... I wonder what possible action could both boost sales for the Crash franchise and bring it to the attention of the younger generations?

 

[chocolatejr9]

Gee... I wonder what possible action could both boost sales for the Crash franchise and bring it to the attention of the younger generations?

I know! An animated series!

Wait a minute...

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Gee... I wonder what possible action could both boost sales for the Crash franchise and bring it to the attention of the younger generations?

Oh god Fortnite.

Crash... WITH A GUN!

 

[Evil Trapezium]

I'm also not wholly confident Rayman would be the Ubisoft character chosen, as much as I would love him, because Assassin's Creed is a hard franchise to ignore when it's approaching it's 15th Anniversary and has remained relevant and absurdly popular for the vast majority of those 15 years. I'm an Assassin's Creed fan about as much as I am a Rayman fan so either is good with me but at this point I'm wondering if this'll be a Snake before of Simon type inclusion.

I believe that Ubisoft would still pick Rayman before Assassin's Creed because they've made a lot of effort to push for him in Smash Bros before. Like Ubisoft made that Rayman trophy model specifically for Smash Bros and the Rayman spirit was the only Ubisoft content in the game before the mii costumes came along so they probably still view Rayman as their character of choice.

Edit: Slight correction, they had Rabbid Mario, Rabbid Peach and Rabbid Kong along with Rayman.