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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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SKX31

SKX31

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Ayumi Tachibana said:
If you consider "Smash is a celebration of gaming" statement Sakurai made really that important, I think you also should take his "Smash is a Japan made Japan game" statement into account since he said this exact line a coulple of times during the Ultimate's DLC cycles.
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While true so far generally, it's not an entirely future-proof statement. Partly because Sakurai's not entirely consistent with his statements (one particular one being how he went back on :4pacman: , :4villager:, :4mii: and :ultsteve: some time after he fretted over them being unworkable), partly because Furukawa and Nintendo are a bit more mercurial on that - sure, they're likely to lean towards that direction, but I'm not willing to say that it's the be-all-end-all for them.

I am not going to hard-commit to the other end of the scale - not when "Other" regions only make up ca. 11 % of Nintendo's income (albeit rising) and not when NA / EU-created characters are in the clear minority when it comes to DLC. But there's been a couple that's created by EU-based dev studios, and quite a few that primarily catered to non-Japanese audience that have been added in Ultimate's base game and DLC.

The truth, I suspect, lie somewhere in the middle. Even as said truth still leans towards Japan quite a lot and will likely continue to do so at least for the forseeable future.
 
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cashregister9

cashregister9

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If we are getting really technical, the Touhou Project copyright belongs to Team Shanghai Alice, who is composed of just ZUN.

chocolatejr9 said:
Weird question, but for the fangames that get ports, does ZUN have any partial ownership, or is it all the devs? Kinda curious about something similar...
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I don't think he does, Fangame deals seem to be more of an endorsement rather than a full rights trade.
 
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C

chocolatejr9

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cashregister9 said:
If we are getting really technical, the Touhou Project copyright belongs to Team Shanghai Alice, who is composed of just ZUN.


I don't think he does, Fangame deals seem to be more of an endorsement rather than a full rights trade.
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Alright, I was curious. Although it's not nearly as likely to get into Smash (heck, I'm pretty sure it was outright deconfirmed), FNaF's creator, Scott Cawthon, is doing something similar to what ZUN does with Touhou fangames. I don't know much about it, but one of the fangame creators involved claimed that Scott basically owns the rights to the fangames now (even commenting that characters from those fangames could potentially appear in stuff like FNAF AR), but to honest I don't know how accurate that is.

If it WAS accurate, it made me wonder if FNAF could get some content from those games in a hypothetical DLC Pack...
 
cashregister9

cashregister9

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chocolatejr9 said:
Alright, I was curious. Although it's not nearly as likely to get into Smash (heck, I'm pretty sure it was outright deconfirmed), FNaF's creator, Scott Cawthon, is doing something similar to what ZUN does with Touhou fangames. I don't know much about it, but one of the fangame creators involved claimed that Scott basically owns the rights to the fangames now (even commenting that characters from those fangames could potentially appear in stuff like FNAF AR), but to honest I don't know how accurate that is.

If it WAS accurate, it made me wonder if FNAF could get some content from those games in a hypothetical DLC Pack...
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From what I can tell Scott doesn't own the rights to the games he just endorses them. The creators of Popgoes, FnaC etc. own their characters and games but they have a mutual (and/or Monetary) agreement with Scott that essentially permits Scott and his partners to use the series as much as they like.

I'm pretty sure it's the same with Touhou but reversed (The devs can use Touhou characters as much as they want)

That is how I interpreted it at least. I could be wrong.
 
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JOJONumber691

JOJONumber691

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Rie Sonomura said:
dude

what if it’s not just ZUN compositions

what if they do what fan games do and include doujin circle music

anyway stan EastNewSound
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I mean, Night of Nights, U.N. Owen Was Her, and Bad Apple!! would probably be in there due to their viral statuses in the West. Night of Nights with Smash Guitars man. Bad Apple!! in particular would probably get a Skin as well due to how stupidly simple it’d be to make.
 
SharkLord

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Reimu at E3 is the pipe dream. Touhou's everywhere, whether you realize it or not, and a good few songs have hit viral status... Buuuuut there's more people who don't notice the Touhou than the ones that do, and there'd be a lot of "Bro what the %$#@" at a big Western event like E3. I know it's unlikely as all hell, but there's juuuuuuuuuuust enough for my brain to latch on and whisper "Hey man, but what if..."
 
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Þe 1 → Way

Þe 1 → Way

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Strange question I know. But does Touhou have a solid overarching story? With all this talk about fan games and what seems to be the sheer amount of content in the series. I wonder how exactly that whole thing fits together.
 
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Idon

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Þe 1 → Way said:
Strange question I know. But does Touhou have a solid overarching story? With all this talk about fan games and what seems to be the sheer amount of content in the series. I wonder how exactly that whole thing fits together.
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Touhou's fanfiction literally has more continuity than the actual games.
 
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Mushroomguy12

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SharkLord

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Þe 1 → Way said:
Strange question I know. But does Touhou have a solid overarching story? With all this talk about fan games and what seems to be the sheer amount of content in the series. I wonder how exactly that whole thing fits together.
Click to expand...
Touhou has a continuity, but it's mostly episodic. Basically, each game tells the story of a specific "Incident;" That is, a deviation from the norm. The seriousness of the Incidents can vary, from something as harsh as a never-ending winter to "WOAH, RANDOM FLYING BOAT!" Generally, it's not overly story-heavy, with a bit of background info and in-game dialogue explaining a bit about the characters and their motivations. Still, there's not that much to go off of, giving a lot of room for fan interpretations to run wild.

The mangas are usually self-contained, but characters often cameo in them, making it clear that they're all in the same continuity. Generally, they kinda just drift in and out on a whim, though sometimes characters land major roles in the manga's plotlines. Said mangas also vary in terms of narrative, from the loosely-connected gag manga Inaba of the Moon and Inaba of the Earth to the serialized Foul Detective Satori (Which has unfortunately been postponed due to the author's health issues).

While the series doesn't make many major changes to the status quo beyond "Hey so these characters exist now," there have been some story arcs where one game leads to another. There's two instances of this:

The tenth game, Mountain of Faith, introduced the Moriya Shrine and the gods Kanako and Suwako. In Touhou 11, Kanako gave a hell raven the power of nuclear %$#@ing fusion, who created a geyser with their powers. Said geyser blasted the flying boat I mentioned earlier into the air, starting the plot of Touhou 12. The flying boat then landed above a mausoleum containing a Taoist hermit who is also the real life Prince Shoutoku, who then woke up for the plot of Touhou 13. If you want to stretch it beyond that, Reimu and the factions introduced in the 12th and 13th games played a major role in the spinoff fighting game Hopeless Masquerade, with the Taoist hermit outright creating that game's antagonist.

Later, another spinoff fighting game, Urban Legend in Limbo, introduced Sumireko Usami and the Occult Orbs, which casually busted a hole in the barier around Gensokyo. While that's already a jaw-dropping feat, the 15th mainline game revealed it was actually a plot by the moon people to stage an invasion in Gensokyo to make the Lunar Capital manifest inside Gensokyo using some weird concept frickery I don't quite understand. The next fighting game, Antimony of Common Flowers, followed up on the Occult Orb subplot, and also introduced the dream realm, which was heavily featured in a spinoff title that heavily featured Sumeriko.

So yeah. Bottom line, Touhou is episodic and leaves a lot of room for fanworks to run wild, but it also has a tendency to casually reference past events and characters whenever just because it can.

Also Touhou logic is really weird and if you don't understand it that's fine because I don't either
 
PeridotGX

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SharkLord said:
Touhou has a continuity, but it's mostly episodic. Basically, each game tells the story of a specific "Incident;" That is, a deviation from the norm. The seriousness of the Incidents can vary, from something as harsh as a never-ending winter to "WOAH, RANDOM FLYING BOAT!" Generally, it's not overly story-heavy, with a bit of background info and in-game dialogue explaining a bit about the characters and their motivations. Still, there's not that much to go off of, giving a lot of room for fan interpretations to run wild.

The mangas are usually self-contained, but characters often cameo in them, making it clear that they're all in the same continuity. Generally, they kinda just drift in and out on a whim, though sometimes characters land major roles in the manga's plotlines. Said mangas also vary in terms of narrative, from the loosely-connected gag manga Inaba of the Moon and Inaba of the Earth to the serialized Foul Detective Satori (Which has unfortunately been postponed due to the author's health issues).

While the series doesn't make many major changes to the status quo beyond "Hey so these characters exist now," there have been some story arcs where one game leads to another. There's two instances of this:

The tenth game, Mountain of Faith, introduced the Moriya Shrine and the gods Kanako and Suwako. In Touhou 11, Kanako gave a hell raven the power of nuclear %$#@ing fusion, who created a geyser with their powers. Said geyser blasted the flying boat I mentioned earlier into the air, starting the plot of Touhou 12. The flying boat then landed above a mausoleum containing a Taoist hermit who is also the real life Prince Shoutoku, who then woke up for the plot of Touhou 13. If you want to stretch it beyond that, Reimu and the factions introduced in the 12th and 13th games played a major role in the spinoff fighting game Hopeless Masquerade, with the Taoist hermit outright creating that game's antagonist.

Later, another spinoff fighting game, Urban Legend in Limbo, introduced Sumireko Usami and the Occult Orbs, which casually busted a hole in the barier around Gensokyo. While that's already a jaw-dropping feat, the 15th mainline game revealed it was actually a plot by the moon people to stage an invasion in Gensokyo to make the Lunar Capital manifest inside Gensokyo using some weird concept frickery I don't quite understand. The next fighting game, Antimony of Common Flowers, followed up on the Occult Orb subplot, and also introduced the dream realm, which was heavily featured in a spinoff title that heavily featured Sumeriko.

So yeah. Bottom line, Touhou is episodic and leaves a lot of room for fanworks to run wild, but it also has a tendency to casually reference past events and characters whenever just because it can.

Also Touhou logic is really weird and if you don't understand it that's fine because I don't either
Click to expand...
all i know about touhou is that reimu is an alcoholic, the apple is bad, and united nations owen was her.
 
SharkLord

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Fluttershy64 said:
What made her such a popular pick? I never heard of her name until Smash Ultimate speculation.
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Touhou's always been pretty popular, but it didn't really cross over with Nintendo circles and/or wasn't considered possible in Smash for the longest time. ZUN was known for not wanting Touhou to become overly commercialized, and Touhou remained on the PC for a while as well. From what I can gather, Reimu's sudden growth spurt in the speculative scene was a multi-step process.
  1. Joker's reveal laid the groundwork, causing people to start thinking of characters beyond Nintendo's circles. Suddenly, characters with little-to-no Nintendo roots were viable.
  2. The doujin leak flared up back during the days of FP1, with someone who had leaked various Touhou stuff before passing around rumors on Reimu's inclusion. While doujin leaker's been silent for a while and the rumor seems to be too old to be really credible, it acted as a bit of a trojan horse, bringing Touhou and Reimu to people's attention.
  3. In October, an interview with ZUN from April was made public. He stated that he wanted Touhou characters in Smash, which shattered the belief that he wouldn't want Touhou in crossovers like Smash due to commercialization and such, which made a lot of people go "Hold on, this can actually happen."
  4. The Reimu for Smash Twitter account kept the Reimu train going, explaining the Touhou series to newcomers and drawing in a lot of people. After this, Reimu just spread through the speculation circles as more and more people kept hearing about her, and now she's solidified herself as a surprisingly popular request.
 
Ivander

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Fluttershy64 said:
What made her such a popular pick? I never heard of her name until Smash Ultimate speculation.
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Reimu is one of two main characters of Touhou, the other being Marisa Kirisame. And Touhou is definitely a big name among shoot-em ups and is absolutely huge in Japan. Not to mention it's own meme culture that lead to some very famous videos like this:

But anyway, with the advent of Joker showing that characters with little association with Nintendo have a chance, Terry being called an example of a non-big character getting in, and Touhou's creator being on board with a Touhou character in Smash, Reimu has been popular in regards to dark-horse picks.
 
Fluttershy64

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Ivander said:
Reimu is one of two main characters of Touhou, the other being Marisa Kirisame. And Touhou is definitely a big name among shoot-em ups and is absolutely huge in Japan. Not to mention it's own meme culture that lead to some very famous videos like this:

But anyway, with the advent of Joker showing that characters with little association with Nintendo have a chance, Terry being called an example of a non-big character getting in, and Touhou's creator being on board with a Touhou character in Smash, Reimu has been popular in regards to dark-horse picks.
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First of all, the video brings me back! Thank you 🤣. But If Reimu would be revealed then she be the Terry of this pass. Interesting. I have no connection's to her games, so if she got in, I' be content.
 
N3ON

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Anticipating Reimu has the same kind of energy as when your friend gets together with someone and pretty quickly you know it's not going to work out, but you can't really do much except smile and wait until the ride reaches its conclusion.
 
C

chocolatejr9

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N3ON said:
Anticipating Reimu has the same kind of energy as when your friend gets together with someone and pretty quickly you know it's not going to work out, but you can't really do much except smile and wait until the ride reaches its conclusion.
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For some reasom, I feel like that sums up Smash speculation pretty well...
 
Ivander

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Fluttershy64 said:
First of all, the video brings me back! Thank you 🤣. But If Reimu would be revealed then she be the Terry of this pass. Interesting. I have no connection's to her games, so if she got in, I' be content.
Click to expand...
Basically, as mentioned, she's from a shoot-em up, in the lines of Gradius, Twinbee, etc. But Touhou was one of the ones that really popularised the shoot-em up trend known as "Bullet Hell", alongside the Treasure game, Radiant Silvergun.
To sum up what people are sorta hoping for, Reimu is your average Miko/Shrine maiden character, that has a purification rod, yin and yang orbs, paper charms and barriers. But rather than being what is often used for your average spellcaster or healer archetype, Reimu is instead based on her gameplay, being a shoot-em up, in which she's rapid-shooting her weapons like they're from a frickin' Gatling gun and whatnot, with possibly more when the "Options" come into play.
Basically, "you're playing your average cute little shrine maiden. She does not play like anything that you'd expect a shrine maiden to play like."
 
DanganZilla5

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I would like to see Reimu be playable, but honestly I can't see her being revealed at E3 unless there is a double reveal. Even compared to Dragon Quest, Touhou is still quite niche in the West and she would probably be the most obscure character shown at E3 ever. If she is in this pass, I'm expecting her to be CP11.
 
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