Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[SharkLord]

I would like to see Reimu be playable, but honestly I can't see her being revealed at E3 unless there is a double reveal. Even compared to Dragon Quest, Touhou is still quite niche in the West and she would probably be the most obscure character shown at E3 ever. If she is in this pass, I'm expecting her to be CP11.

Yeah, Touhou's lopsided situation is basically Dragon Quest squared. My brain's going to keep clinging to the idea - You can't stop the brain - But logically speaking the best we can hope for Reimu at E3 would be everyone remembering Bad Apple when it starts playing in her trailer.

 

[cashregister9]

I think we need to potentially drop the "E3 Direct" mindset for this year.

The physical E3 for this year wasn't even formally announced and it was already cancelled and according to rumors there will potentially be a Digital E3, that has a really expensive entry fee that seems pointless when the companies can just have their own digital presentation for less money. Nintendo pretty much only did E3 because of the physical presence but since that probably isn't happening any directs around June will probably be just that a June Direct.

Unless something changed in the last month and I'm just oblivious. (The likely answer.)

 

[Icedragonadam]

Nintendo and many other companies are not tied down to E3 anymore. Streaming was slowly killing E3 and it only ramped up since Covid. And now a lot of companies are doing their own thing whether it's streams or Social Media.

 

[DanganZilla5]

I think we need to potentially drop the "E3 Direct" mindset.

The physical E3 for this year wasn't even formally announced and it was already cancelled and according to rumors there will potentially be a Digital E3, that has a really expensive entry fee that seems pointless when the companies can just have their own digital presentation for less money. Nintendo pretty much only did E3 because of the physical presence but since that probably isn't happening any directs around June will probably be just that a June Direct.

Unless something changed in the last month and I'm just oblivious. (The likely answer.)

Fair point, but keep in mind that Nintendo did plan out this whole pass since 2019, which at the time, they would have assumed that the next two E3s would be physical conferences. Of course that doesn't have to mean that Nintendo was planning on joining both of these events, but they have consistently created a presentation to coincide with E3 for years now. So I think people are reasonable to expect a "E3 worthy" character.

 

[SharkLord]

I think we need to potentially drop the "E3 Direct" mindset for this year.

The physical E3 for this year wasn't even formally announced and it was already cancelled and according to rumors there will potentially be a Digital E3, that has a really expensive entry fee that seems pointless when the companies can just have their own digital presentation for less money. Nintendo pretty much only did E3 because of the physical presence but since that probably isn't happening any directs around June will probably be just that a June Direct.

Unless something changed in the last month and I'm just oblivious. (The likely answer.)

The idea is that Nintendo would've originally planned FP2 with E3 in mind, before COVID struck. It's doubtful that they made some major rescheduling in the order of the fighters, so CP10 likely would've been planned for E3. While the lack of physical presence and the stupid entry fee likely turned Nintendo away from E3 this year, they still have everything that would've been shown off there, and so CP10 is likely to be a fairly big reveal. Basically, it's based off the situation from before lockdown, when the pass had been decided, not after.

 

[Otoad64]

I think we need to potentially drop the "E3 Direct" mindset for this year.

The physical E3 for this year wasn't even formally announced and it was already cancelled and according to rumors there will potentially be a Digital E3, that has a really expensive entry fee that seems pointless when the companies can just have their own digital presentation for less money. Nintendo pretty much only did E3 because of the physical presence but since that probably isn't happening any directs around June will probably be just that a June Direct.

Unless something changed in the last month and I'm just oblivious. (The likely answer.)

my thoughts are they won't technically be part of E3 but they'll still do something around that time

 

[cashregister9]

Nintendo and many other companies are not tied down to E3 anymore. Streaming was slowly killing E3 and it only ramped up since Covid. And now a lot of companies are doing their own thing whether it's streams or Social Media.

The idea is that Nintendo would've originally planned FP2 with E3 in mind, before COVID struck. It's doubtful that they made some major rescheduling in the order of the fighters, so CP10 likely would've been planned for E3. While the lack of physical presence and the stupid entry fee likely turned Nintendo away from E3 this year, they still have everything that would've been shown off there, and so CP10 is likely to be a fairly big reveal. Basically, it's based off the situation from before lockdown, when the pass had been decided, not after.

I don't disagree with this notion, I just think as always keep expectations in check and all that, not necessarily with the character but things like the idea of a Dual reveal.

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

For anyone saying there's not gonna be an "E3", It's just easier and faster to say "E3" than Nintendo Digital Event or whatever the hell they plan on calling it.

You guys should already know what we mean when we say their gonna show something sometime in June.

 

[DevaAshera]

They could have easily said he voiced Dunban.

This doesn't mean Sakurai couldn't say "These might look familiar to some" about the alts though

Yes, they could, but that wouldn't be his most well known role at all..Vegeta would be..Vegeta is one of the most well known characters in the world.

Like I said though, they weren't going to get into potential legal trouble for just mentioning other roles a voice actor has done whereas referencing something in an alternate costume potentially could..you have to be careful and its always down to how petty a company wants to be about it. You want believable deniability, so just calling something a dark alt or a gold / silver alt and letting the fans figure out the references on their is often the best course of action over being vague about something referencing something outside of the company's ownership.

 

[Merengue]

I might be in the very small majority, but I don't want Crash in smash. All he can do is spin and punch. People just expect him to be in the game because he's so "iconic." It just seems so obvious that he's already in from mass popularity.

I'd prefer one final Earthbound rep instead.

 

[Perkilator]

I might be in the very small majority, but I don't want Crash in smash. All he can do is spin and punch.

I don't think you've actually played his games, because he can do way more than just spinning and punching.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I'm not sure I want to see Xenoblade be the new "How dare this underrepped franchise suddenly get more content?" of the game

I never want to see any franchise ever become another FE.

Like, my absolute most wanted franchises, I still would never want to see them get more than 3 unique fighters.

I kinda now want to see what the ratio of other games to RPG is in Ultimate compared to Smash 64, which was 1/4 of the roster.

You...know you could calculate that fairly easily, right?

 

[Fluttershy64]

Basically, as mentioned, she's from a shoot-em up, in the lines of Gradius, Twinbee, etc. But Touhou was one of the ones that really popularised the shoot-em up trend known as "Bullet Hell", alongside the Treasure game, Radiant Silvergun.
To sum up what people are sorta hoping for, Reimu is your average Miko/Shrine maiden character, that has a purification rod, yin and yang orbs, paper charms and barriers. But rather than being what is often used for your average spellcaster or healer archetype, Reimu is instead based on her gameplay, being a shoot-em up, in which she's rapid-shooting her weapons like they're from a frickin' Gatling gun and whatnot, with possibly more when the "Options" come into play.
Basically, "you're playing your average cute little shrine maiden. She does not play like anything that you'd expect a shrine maiden to play like."

Very interesting. Thank you! Also Thank you SharkLord !

 

[Merengue]

I don't think you've actually played his games, because he can do way more than just spinning and punching.

my bad. i guess i just dont find the appeal in crash. imo, his design is creepy.

 

[cashregister9]

I don't think you've actually played his games, because he can do way more than just spinning and punching.

You could even pull from Crash of the Titans, Mind Over Mutant and Skylanders, if they want to get real weird with a Crash moveset.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

my bad. i guess i just dont find the appeal in crash. imo, his design is creepy.

I could see where you’re coming from with his classic design but his new design?

he’s ****ing adorable.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Inevitable, I say again.

Bruh this style looked super ****ing familiar so I did some digging and it's from the same dev that did Luna Nights, goddamn.

Yes, they could, but that wouldn't be his most well known role at all..Vegeta would be..Vegeta is one of the most well known characters in the world.

Like I said though, they weren't going to get into potential legal trouble for just mentioning other roles a voice actor has done whereas referencing something in an alternate costume potentially could..you have to be careful and its always down to how petty a company wants to be about it. You want believable deniability, so just calling something a dark alt or a gold / silver alt and letting the fans figure out the references on their is often the best course of action over being vague about something referencing something outside of the company's ownership.

So implying it's a reference to something can get you in trouble when it's Xeno related but Sakurai can imply some costumes are based on Star Wars and Gundam and hint at Kinnikuman's Spring Man. This makes less than zero sense, especially as nobody's ever gotten in trouble in the gaming industry for making references to other media, other games or even namedropping Satoru Iwata. The Xeno series isn't special enough to suddenly create legal issues you know.

 

[Pillow]

Yeah, Touhou's lopsided situation is basically Dragon Quest squared. My brain's going to keep clinging to the idea - You can't stop the brain - But logically speaking the best we can hope for Reimu at E3 would be everyone remembering Bad Apple when it starts playing in her trailer.

Reimu dual reveal alongside some gritty western character like Master Chief would be the most ideal situation.

 

[Icedragonadam]

Honestly I'm thinking right now:

CP10 revealed in Sakurai Presents in May., released a few days after that.

CP11 revealed in the next direct if it's June and Sakurai Presents happening and release happening in August/September.

I'm fairly certain Nintendo wants to focus on new projects and the Smash devs also want to move on as well.

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

I might be in the very small majority, but I don't want Crash in smash. All he can do is spin and punch. People just expect him to be in the game because he's so "iconic." It just seems so obvious that he's already in from mass popularity.

I'd prefer one final Earthbound rep instead.

So can Sonic and he made it into Smash, Mario can only jump and throw fireballs in the original Super Mario Bros and he's the face of Super Smash Bros.

Crash Bandicoot's straightforward moveset isn't really that much different compared to other platforming icons in Mario, Donkey Kong and Sonic the Hedgehog.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

So can Sonic and he made it into Smash, Mario can only jump and throw fireballs in the original Super Mario Bros and he's the face of Super Smash Bros.

Crash Bandicoot's straightforward moveset isn't that much different compared to other platforming icons in Mario, Donkey Kong and Sonic the Hedgehog.

Telling someone who doesn't like those generic movesets that we have plenty of them isn't a way to convince them to like it

 

[DarthEnderX]

I mean, Night of Nights, U.N. Owen Was Her, and Bad Apple!!

Ooh, sorry, the correct answer was: UN Owen, Bad Apple, Help Me Erin.

 

[Shroob]

UN Owen, Bad Apple, Help Me Erin are the correct answers.

Ehhh, Help Me Erin isn't anywhere near as popular as it used to be TBH. Night of Nights still gets memed all the time.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Ehhh, Help Me Erin isn't anywhere near as popular as it used to be TBH. Night of Nights still gets memed all the time.

Ok but Help Me Erin ****ing slaps so it's still a correct answer

 

[Shroob]

Ok but Help Me Erin ****ing slaps so it's still a correct answer

No respect for the OG MSTPT smh

 

[DarthEnderX]

Ehhh, Help Me Erin isn't anywhere near as popular as it used to be TBH. Night of Nights still gets memed all the time.

I like old memes though. I still go back and watch this playlist from time to time.

 

[Shroob]

I like old memes though. I still go back and watch this playlist from time to time.

I'd make a joke saying that seeing this made me age instantly

But every day's a midlife crisis for me so it's just Friday.

 

[SharkLord]

Ehhh, Help Me Erin isn't anywhere near as popular as it used to be TBH. Night of Nights still gets memed all the time.

Yeah, UN Owen, Night of Nights, and Bad Apple are the holy trinity. UN Owen cemented itself as the top-tier official song, to the point it's still listed number one in the most recent polls, and the latter two get remixes of their own, despite being remixes themselves. Flowering Nights at least still gets it's own remixes by virtue of Sakuya's popularity, but nobody remembers the original Bad Apple from the PC-98 games.

 

[Shroob]

Yeah, UN Owen, Night of Nights, and Bad Apple are the holy trinity. UN Owen cemented itself as the top-tier official song, to the point it's still listed number one in the most recent polls, and the latter two get remixes of their own, despite being remixes themselves. Flowering Nights at least still gets it's own remixes by virtue of Sakuya's popularity, but nobody remembers the original Bad Apple from the PC-98 games.

No one remembers the PC-98 games except for the fact that they want Mima to be canon again tbh.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

No respect for the OG MSTPT smh

What the hell does thay have to do with Help Me Erin though? It's also godlike and I only recently found out it's a Touhou thing though

 

[SharkLord]

No one remembers the PC-98 games except for the fact that they want Mima to be canon again tbh.

Eeyup. Mima, Reimu's PC-98 outfit as an alt, and the fact that Alice and Yuuka came from there. That's all we remember about the PC-98 games.

Well, that and Demetori works really well with the PC-98 songs

 

[Ben Holt]

I might be in the very small majority, but I don't want Crash in smash. All he can do is spin and punch. People just expect him to be in the game because he's so "iconic." It just seems so obvious that he's already in from mass popularity.

I'd prefer one final Earthbound rep instead.

If my dream of Crash in Smash doesn't come to be, I will blame you personally.

 

[Pillow]

While we’re on the topic of Reimu, which appearance do you guys think she’ll take in Smash? Personally I tend to prefer her newer more animeish artstyles to her somewhat dumpy original form, but Smash tends to favor classic appearances.

 

[cashregister9]

While we’re on the topic of Reimu, which appearance do you guys think she’ll take in Smash? Personally I tend to prefer her newer more animeish artstyles to her somewhat dumpy original form, but Smash tends to favor classic appearances.

I hope they embrace the full on ZUN art

Just a 3D model of this

But I think they would pull a Banjo and basically create a new design that is a unique to smash interpretation of the character.

Or they'll just base it off of one of the fighting games.

 

[SharkLord]

While we’re on the topic of Reimu, which appearance do you guys think she’ll take in Smash? Personally I tend to prefer her newer more animeish artstyles to her somewhat dumpy original form, but Smash tends to favor classic appearances.

Probably the anime-styled proportions. Whenever ZUN collaborates with someone who's expertise is artwork, they always end up in an anime style. Same with the statues and figures; As we all know, Sakurai likes to use figures and merchandise for reference, so unless he's got a Fumo hiding in that drawer we'll probably end up with something like these.

Still fairy cutesy, but more detailed than ZUN's potatohead artwork.

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

Telling someone who doesn't like those generic movesets that we have plenty of them isn't a way to convince them to like it

I'm not saying he has to like it, I'm saying that their are plenty of other characters in Super Smash Bros with "Apparently that's all they can do".

I mean you can make any character sound simple.

- Pikachu can only electrocute

- Samus can only shoot beams

- Swordfighters can only cut

and etc.

While Crash Bandicoot's bread and butter is brawling with his Spin and punches, There's obviously much more that he can do from his various game for his Jabs, Tilts, Smash attacks, Specials and Grabs etc.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

While we’re on the topic of Reimu, which appearance do you guys think she’ll take in Smash? Personally I tend to prefer her newer more animeish artstyles to her somewhat dumpy original form, but Smash tends to favor classic appearances.

They'd never do it but I'd pick her look from Koumaju Densetsu Scarlet Symphony

I'm not saying he has to like it, I'm saying that their are plenty of other characters in Super Smash Bros with "Apparently that's all they can do".

I mean you can make any character sound simple.

- Pikachu can only electrocute

- Samus can only shoot beams

- Swordfighters can only cut

and etc.

While Crash Bandicoot's bread and butter is brawling with his Spin and punches, There's obviously more that can be implemented from his various game for his Jabs, Tilts, Smash attacks, Specials and Grabs etc.

His games typically only have enough tools for like 5 moves, counting normals. If you have to make up well over 75% of the moveset, it's tricky to sell the idea on people who aren't already on board

 

[DevaAshera]

So implying it's a reference to something can get you in trouble when it's Xeno related but Sakurai can imply some costumes are based on Star Wars and Gundam and hint at Kinnikuman's Spring Man. This makes less than zero sense, especially as nobody's ever gotten in trouble in the gaming industry for making references to other media, other games or even namedropping Satoru Iwata. The Xeno series isn't special enough to suddenly create legal issues you know.

The tongue-in-cheek reference to mass produced Zakus with Green Samus being 'Mass Produced Samus' was done with the very first title, when Smash wasn't the juggernaut series it is now and a time when Japanese companies weren't as gung-ho with their IP Protections..I mean, Smash 64 had the Beam Saber even make the same sound as Light Sabers in Japan. I don't recall Sakurai ever mentioning an alt was a reference to Star Wars though..

The Kinnikuman Spring Man reference was done during a live stream and isn't present in the game itself, so yes, its fine.

Yes, but they've never been direct about it by confirming that the reference was to another series, regardless of how obvious it might have been, especially in Japanese games, even if Sega used to do it with Spider-Man & Batman as bosses in Shinobi..going so far as to license Spider-Man in the West to keep half of the boss intact, and even originally having one name Mari-Oh in another game that was a deadringer for Mario before being redesigned to not get into legal trouble, though keeping the Mario reference by having the boss shrink after enough hits similar to Super Mario shrinking to Mario after being hit.

Xenogears is owned by Square-Enix and they are very protective of their IPs, regardless of how 'special' it may or not be..I mean, the main character even got a Bring Arts figure not long ago, so they clearly still value it as a series. Xenosaga would be a little easier to get the okay for, considering Namco is developing Smash Ultimate with Sakurai and both KOS-MOS and T-elos being in Xenoblade 2, but they could also have felt the hassle wasn't worth it. All the same, it doesn't matter if an IP is being actively used or considered 'special', the IP Holder still has the option to defend their Copyright, regardless of how trivial the particular situation may seem..so its often better to play it safe than sorry.

There's a reason so many items in Smash Bros, such as the Proximity Mine, Beam Saber, and more were redesigned.

All I'm saying is that there's a possible reason Sakurai didn't outright call Pyra/Mythra's Alt 5 'Weltall', Alt 6 'Xenogears', Alt 8 'Zohar'..though not calling Pyra's Alt 7 'Monado' is funny if it isn't a reference to the Monado's colour scheme..though its possibly due to not having a colour scheme reference for Mythra in that alt and just making a complimentary one.

Honestly though, referencing Xenogears and Xenosaga without directly stating the reference is pretty inline with how Xenoblade does things, considering the Conduit is just straight up the Zohar, even called the Zohar in the game's code, which is a plot relevant artifact in both Xenogears and Xenosaga, albeit with a somewhat different design in each appearance..though the Conduit is the closest to the Xenosaga Zohar, and then Pyra's stasis tube is very similar to a similar thing in Xenogears.

 

[N3ON]

I'm baffled people still need to be sold on Sakurai's ability to create interesting movesets at all.

He's done more with a lot less than Crash Bandicoot.

 

[Shroob]

I'm baffled people still need to be sold on Sakurai's ability to create interesting movesets at all.

He's done more with a lot less than Crash Bandicoot.

I mean.

Is it really that, or is it just another way of saying "I don't want/like this character."

Remember Pac?