Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[SharkLord]

They'd never do it but I'd pick her look from Koumaju Densetsu Scarlet Symphony
View attachment 307040

His games typically only have enough tools for like 5 moves, counting normals. If you have to make up well over 75% of the moveset, it's tricky to sell the idea on people who aren't already on board

I will never be able to get over Touhouvania

They took one look at ZUN's potato artwork and decided "%$#@ it, Reimu Belmont Badguy. %$#@ yeah."

 

[TheCJBrine]

Personally I like Team Destination’s Reimu render:

Looks like someone's highly responsive to donations! Reimu Hakurei, the shrine maiden of paradise, has arrived once more! pic.twitter.com/5l76tOKEej

— Team Destination (@RendersSSBU) July 7, 2020

ZUN’s artwork is cute. The more “anime”-esque style is still cool though.

I haven’t actually played a Touhou game yet I just think it’s cool, want to try Touhou 6 sometime though.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

The tongue-in-cheek reference to mass produced Zakus with Green Samus being 'Mass Produced Samus' was done with the very first title, when Smash wasn't the juggernaut series it is now and a time when Japanese companies weren't as gung-ho with their IP Protections..I mean, Smash 64 had the Beam Saber even make the same sound as Light Sabers in Japan. I don't recall Sakurai ever mentioning an alt was a reference to Star Wars though..

The Kinnikuman Spring Man reference was done during a live stream and isn't present in the game itself, so yes, its fine.

Yes, but they've never been direct about it by confirming that the reference was to another series, regardless of how obvious it might have been, especially in Japanese games, even if Sega used to do it with Spider-Man & Batman as bosses in Shinobi..going so far as to license Spider-Man in the West to keep half of the boss intact, and even originally having one name Mari-Oh in another game that was a deadringer for Mario before being redesigned to not get into legal trouble, though keeping the Mario reference by having the boss shrink after enough hits similar to Super Mario shrinking to Mario after being hit.

Xenogears is owned by Square-Enix and they are very protective of their IPs, regardless of how 'special' it may or not be..I mean, the main character even got a Bring Arts figure not long ago, so they clearly still value it as a series. Xenosaga would be a little easier to get the okay for, considering Namco is developing Smash Ultimate with Sakurai and both KOS-MOS and T-elos being in Xenoblade 2, but they could also have felt the hassle wasn't worth it. All the same, it doesn't matter if an IP is being actively used or considered 'special', the IP Holder still has the option to defend their Copyright, regardless of how trivial the particular situation may seem..so its often better to play it safe than sorry.

There's a reason so many items in Smash Bros, such as the Proximity Mine, Beam Saber, and more were redesigned.

All I'm saying is that there's a possible reason Sakurai didn't outright call Pyra/Mythra's Alt 5 'Weltall', Alt 6 'Xenogears', Alt 8 'Zohar'..though not calling Pyra's Alt 7 'Monado' is funny if it isn't a reference to the Monado's colour scheme..though its possibly due to not having a colour scheme reference for Mythra in that alt and just making a complimentary one.

Honestly though, referencing Xenogears and Xenosaga without directly stating the reference is pretty inline with how Xenoblade does things, considering the Conduit is just straight up the Zohar, even called the Zohar in the game's code, which is a plot relevant artifact in both Xenogears and Xenosaga, albeit with a somewhat different design in each appearance..though the Conduit is the closest to the Xenosaga Zohar, and then Pyra's stasis tube is very similar to a similar thing in Xenogears.

The Star Wars reference was made about one of Samus' palettes in Smash 4.

Instead of trying to convince me Xeno is so super special that it cannot have implied references like "Some of these alternative colours may seem a little familiar" while Sakurai chuckles and leaves it at that, I want you to explain how every other property is able to get away with this stuff, including how YIIK was able to put out Satoru Iwata's name in the game or how Bloodstained Ritual of the Night was able to let you fight a guy who uses a whip while doing the Belmont strut and using classic Castlevania subweapons while you avenge Maria, Simon, Trevor, Richter, Julius, Juste, etc.

 

[DarthEnderX]

What the hell does thay have to do with Help Me Erin though? It's also godlike and I only recently found out it's a Touhou thing though

I only found out any of those songs were from Touhou after I started coming here.

While we’re on the topic of Reimu, which appearance do you guys think she’ll take in Smash?

The one that best fits a Mii costume.

 

[N3ON]

I mean.

Is it really that, or is it just another way of saying "I don't want/like this character."

Remember Pac?

To be fair, Sakurai originally thought Pac-Man could only waka waka and then someone let him play Pac-Land and we got the character but were boned from that day forward.

 

[Shroob]

To be fair, Sakurai originally thought Pac-Man could only waka waka and then someone let him play Pac-Land and we got the character but were boned from that day forward.

So what you're saying is

Even Sakurai pulled a "He has no moves!"

 

[N3ON]

So what you're saying is

Even Sakurai pulled a "He has no moves!"

Sakurai has disagreed with Sakurai on multiple occasions.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I'm baffled people still need to be sold on Sakurai's ability to create interesting movesets at all.

He's done more with a lot less than Crash Bandicoot.

Yeah, Sakurai's done more with less, but we don't have Sakurai's exact styles. There's a reason why Mega Man using the Mega Buster as his jab was seen as groundbreaking, because everyone else would have just given him punches and kicks, including Capcom in MvC.

I mean.

Is it really that, or is it just another way of saying "I don't want/like this character."

Remember Pac?

Nah, some people prefer being able to visualize what a character can do and if someone's able to give them that, they'll be sold on the idea. It's less "I don't want them" but rather "Sell me on them". For example, I've gone from "Why would you add Pyramid Head" to "Pyramid Head would be ****ing brilliant" just because Þe 1 → Way was able to give a good mental image for me to work with. If we look at Crash, he'd have incredibly generic moves so if you ask me, he'd need to have exaggerated as **** animations to sell the classic Looney Tunes style to make up for that. Telling someone to envision something can go a long way, especially compared to "So what if they'd be generic as ****?"

 

[DevaAshera]

While we’re on the topic of Reimu, which appearance do you guys think she’ll take in Smash? Personally I tend to prefer her newer more animeish artstyles to her somewhat dumpy original form, but Smash tends to favor classic appearances.

Considering that Sakurai tends to go for the more detailed versions of characters, at times even coming up with his own versions or additions to them like he did with Peach (twice), Daisy, various Fire Emblem characters (especially Roy), Pit, Palutena, Meta Knight, King Dedede, Wolf, Capt. Falcon, ZS Samus, Simon, Richter, Sheik (twice), Pyra, Mythra, & Zelda (fusing LttP & LBW Zeldas into a single Zelda)...and likely more I couldn't think of.
Honestly, I'd say Smash uses new designs or the most modern design for a character more often than they use the Classic Design, like Cloud is using his Dissidia Final Fantasy design while Sephiroth fuses his Dissidia design's artstyle with his design used Advent Children.

Anyway, I'd say that the Smash Bros. version of Reimu, were it to happen, would be most likely based on one of the more detailed anime-esque figures, such as this one, keeping the most iconic elements of her costume intact while having more detail and a more pleasing art style.

I'm baffled people still need to be sold on Sakurai's ability to create interesting movesets at all.

He's done more with a lot less than Crash Bandicoot.

Yeah, as long as he doesn't do another Sonic situation and Crash ends up with half of his moves are spins..

The Star Wars reference was made about one of Samus' palettes in Smash 4.

Instead of trying to convince me Xeno is so super special that it cannot have implied references like "Some of these alternative colours may seem a little familiar" while Sakurai chuckles and leaves it at that, I want you to explain how every other property is able to get away with this stuff, including how YIIK was able to put out Satoru Iwata's name in the game or how Bloodstained Ritual of the Night was able to let you fight a guy who uses a whip while doing the Belmont strut and using classic Castlevania subweapons while you avenge Maria, Simon, Trevor, Richter, Julius, Juste, etc.

I don't think so, the only Samus alt that wasn't a reference to one of her suits in her actual games, or Dark Samus, was the aforementioned Green 'Mass Produced' Samus..none of them were references to Star Wars.

Satoru Iwata is a real person and a name that isn't copyrighted.

Bloodstained was created by the father of modern Castlevania, so that was all tongue-in-cheek references to things he made in the past, none of them are trademarked either, with every one of those names being actual names. The Belmont strut is also not copyrighted and the entire game was a throwback to Classic Castlevania, so if Konami had took issue with it, the entire game would have been taken down or a deal would have been made to not get into legal trouble..which is acceptable for a game, but is kind of unneeded for colour alts would you could just not be direct or indirect about it at all and let the fans figure it out instead.

Its not that Xenogears is 'super special' that it can't have implied references, its that safer from a legal standpoint to not point them or be cheeky about them. Sakurai also doesn't tend to do stuff like that in regards to alternate colours, or at least hasn't since Smash 64...no other Smash Alt, aside from Ness' Henshin Tiger's alt, also from Smash 64, has been stated to be a reference to anything outside of their series.

Its also entirely possible that Sakurai wasn't the one to pick the alternate colours for Pyra/Mythra and MonolithSoft didn't tell him they made references to certain other games.

 

[Merengue]

For Reimu's design, I think brown hair suits her better than black hair. I feel this design would best suit her.

this design could be interesting too

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Considering that Sakurai tends to go for the more detailed versions of characters, at times even coming up with his own versions or additions to them like he did with Peach (twice), Daisy, various Fire Emblem characters (especially Roy), Pit, Palutena, Meta Knight, King Dedede, Wolf, Capt. Falcon, ZS Samus, Simon, Richter, Sheik (twice), Pyra, Mythra, & Zelda (fusing LttP & LBW Zeldas into a single Zelda)...and likely more I couldn't think of.
Honestly, I'd say Smash uses new designs or the most modern design for a character more often than they use the Classic Design, like Cloud is using his Dissidia Final Fantasy design while Sephiroth fuses his Dissidia design's artstyle with his design used Advent Children.

Anyway, I'd say that the Smash Bros. version of Reimu, were it to happen, would be most likely based on one of the more detailed anime-esque figures, such as this one, keeping the most iconic elements of her costume intact while having more detail and a more pleasing art style.
View attachment 307042

Yeah, as long as he doesn't do another Sonic situation and Crash ends up with half of his moves are spins..


I don't think so, the only Samus alt that wasn't a reference to one of her suits in her actual games, or Dark Samus, was the aforementioned Green 'Mass Produced' Samus..none of them were references to Star Wars.

Satoru Iwata is a real person and a name that isn't copyrighted.

Bloodstained was created by the father of modern Castlevania, so that was all tongue-in-cheek references to things he made in the past, none of them are trademarked either, with every one of those names being actual names. The Belmont strut is also not copyrighted and the entire game was a throwback to Classic Castlevania, so if Konami had took issue with it, the entire game would have been taken down or a deal would have been made to not get into legal trouble..which is acceptable for a game, but is kind of unneeded for colour alts would you could just not be direct or indirect about it at all and let the fans figure it out instead.

Its not that Xenogears is 'super special' that it can't have implied references, its that safer from a legal standpoint to not point them or be cheeky about them. Sakurai also doesn't tend to do stuff like that in regards to alternate colours, or at least hasn't since Smash 64...no other Smash Alt, aside from Ness' Henshin Tiger's alt, also from Smash 64, has been stated to be a reference to anything outside of their series.

Its also entirely possible that Sakurai wasn't the one to pick the alternate colours for Pyra/Mythra and MonolithSoft didn't tell him they made references to certain other games.

I remember one of the pics of the day back in Smash 4 joking about Samus' white palette being a Stormtrooper.


So it's safe from a legal perspective to do nothing except for the times Sakurai has hinted at stuff and others have been significantly more blatant because Xeno might get him in trouble. Alright. We're done as you clearly can't show why this one time Sakurai doesn't note it is so special

 

[SharkLord]

For Reimu's design, I think brown hair suits her better than black hair. I feel this design would best suit her.

Unfortunately, that figure's based on a fangame - Touhou Lost Word. I do believe that the fangame's existence wouldn't bother Nintendo, but I don't think they'd go out of their way to negotiate with the fangame developers, either.

 

[Merengue]

Unfortunately, that figure's based on a fangame - Touhou Lost Word. I do believe that the fangame's existence wouldn't bother Nintendo, but I don't think they'd go out of their way to negotiate with the fangame developers, either.

sad. that was my fav one

 

[N3ON]

I have nothing against Reimu, but I still think this is much ado about nothing.

Aside from a few spin-offs, Touhou, to my knowledge, doesn't even release in any language other than Japanese. The main games don't release on any console and get virtually no coverage outside the fanbase itself, which just turns itself into a recursive feedback loop. I mean, it is not uncommon that people have no idea about Reimu or Touhou before they see it brought up in Smash conversation. That's not an auspicious sign.

We couldn't even get indie characters that have more global popularity, and are inundated with attention across the industry, like Sans. You think Nintendo/Sakurai are going to opt for an indie series you need to patch in most of the world (when qualities like that have proven prohibitive in the selection process), propagated outside by a mostly insular fanbase the vast majority of the gaming sphere itself is oblivious to?

This isn't King of Fighters we're dealing with, this is something much more esoteric. And these are the kind of choices antithetical to what Smash strives for in its inclusion. I would be surprised if Touhou gets any content whatsoever, but I really really doubt we get a character from it.

 

[Merengue]

I have nothing against Reimu, but I still think this is much ado about nothing.

Aside from a few spin-offs, Touhou, to my knowledge, doesn't even release in any language other than Japanese. The main games don't release on any console and get virtually no coverage outside the fanbase itself, which just turns itself into a recursive feedback loop. I mean, it is not uncommon that people have no idea about Reimu or Touhou before they see it brought up in Smash conversation. That's not an auspicious sign.

We couldn't even get indie characters that have more global popularity, and are inundated with attention across the industry, like Sans. You think Nintendo/Sakurai are going to opt for an indie series you need to patch in most of the world (when qualities like that have proven prohibitive in the selection process), propagated outside by a mostly insular fanbase the vast majority of the gaming sphere itself is oblivious to?

This isn't King of Fighters we're dealing with, this is something much more esoteric. And these are the kind of choices antithetical to what Smash strives for in its inclusion. I would be surprised if Touhou gets any content whatsoever, but I really really doubt we get a character from it.

We're just doing it for the sake of discussion. 2 more months to go.

 

[N3ON]

We're just doing it for the sake of discussion. 2 more months to go.

So am I, I don't pick the characters.

 

[Shroob]

I have nothing against Reimu, but I still think this is much ado about nothing.

Aside from a few spin-offs, Touhou, to my knowledge, doesn't even release in any language other than Japanese. The main games don't release on any console and get virtually no coverage outside the fanbase itself, which just turns itself into a recursive feedback loop. I mean, it is not uncommon that people have no idea about Reimu or Touhou before they see it brought up in Smash conversation. That's not an auspicious sign.

We couldn't even get indie characters that have more global popularity, and are inundated with attention across the industry, like Sans. You think Nintendo/Sakurai are going to opt for an indie series you need to patch in most of the world (when qualities like that have proven prohibitive in the selection process), propagated outside by a mostly insular fanbase the vast majority of the gaming sphere itself is oblivious to?

This isn't King of Fighters we're dealing with, this is something much more esoteric. And these are the kind of choices antithetical to what Smash strives for in its inclusion. I would be surprised if Touhou gets any content whatsoever, but I really really doubt we get a character from it.

I don't think we're actually getting Touhou, no, but at the same time, the series is huge in its home country, like, real big. I see it brought up all the time in our neck of the woods but on the Japanese side of the equation. Touhou is actually decently talked about in regards to Smash in Japan as far as I can see, and not as a joke choice either, there's quite a bit of Reimu support across the pond.


Now granted, I'm going off google translate sure, but when you see "Who do you want" posts, and people put Reimu on there, well, I dunno.


Touhou's niche as hell to most of the world, but it's enormous in Japan. Same could be said of Fate, really. Fate started as just some visual novel, now it's arguably one of Sony's most profitable IPs.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Same could be said of Fate, really. Fate started as just some visual novel, now it's arguably one of Sony's most profitable IPs.

It's honestly wild how Fate has made more money than Zelda and Godzilla, kinda hoping Sakurai acknowledges that fun tidbit should Saber get in

 

[Shroob]

It's honestly wild how Fate has made more money than Zelda and Godzilla, kinda hoping Sakurai acknowledges that fun tidbit should Saber get in

Gachas with no pity system tend to do that.

Granblue at least has a "Okay, stop, here, just take it already" kinda deal. Fate gonna suck you dry and then spit on your husk.

 

[Ben Holt]

To be fair, Sakurai originally thought Pac-Man could only waka waka and then someone let him play Pac-Land and we got the character but were boned from that day forward.

There's also Pac-Man 2, Pac in Time, the Pac-Man World trilogy, and... sigh The Ghostly Adventures to pull from.

 

[N3ON]

I don't think we're actually getting Touhou, no, but at the same time, the series is huge in its home country, like, real big. I see it brought up all the time in our neck of the woods but on the Japanese side of the equation. Touhou is actually decently talked about in regards to Smash in Japan as far as I can see, and not as a joke choice either, there's quite a bit of Reimu support across the pond.


Now granted, I'm going off google translate sure, but when you see "Who do you want" posts, and people put Reimu on there, well, I dunno.


Touhou's niche as hell to most of the world, but it's enormous in Japan. Same could be said of Fate, really. Fate started as just some visual novel, now it's arguably one of Sony's most profitable IPs.

That wouldn't surprise me. That tracks with what I've heard and I've never contended its Japanese popularity. Were Smash only concerned with Japan, I'd be of a different stance on things.

But Smash clearly angles away from series with unilateral popularity, let alone series where a sizeable, important chunk isn't even localized. Because Nintendo isn't going to value fan patches. They're going to see a series that's almost entirely regionally exclusive. An indie series which is almost entirely regionally exclusive, no less. That's enough to nearly invalidate chances, in my opinion. And I say the same thing when Mortal Kombat gets broached, which, in some ways, is sort of like an inverse case.

 

[DarthEnderX]

We couldn't even get indie characters that have more global popularity, and are inundated with attention across the industry, like Sans.

So much this. If they were gonna give and indie series a full Fighter, I don't think Touhou would be the first.

 

[Ben Holt]

So much this. If they were gonna give and indie series a full Fighter, I don't think Touhou would be the first.

Steve might count, but he's owned by Microsoft now, so he's not really Indie.

My gut says that the first true Indie Fighter will be Shovel Knight.

 

[Shroob]

Speaking of Indie, I'd love Binding of Isaac to get a Mii costume.


....never will happen though possibly due to Nintendo and the dev's fairly bad blood between them though, and the game's general content.

 

[DevaAshera]

Unfortunately, that figure's based on a fangame - Touhou Lost Word. I do believe that the fangame's existence wouldn't bother Nintendo, but I don't think they'd go out of their way to negotiate with the fangame developers, either.

Nothing saying they couldn't be inspired by it and make a Smash Original design like with Mega Man.

 

[Pillow]

So much this. If they were gonna give and indie series a full Fighter, I don't think Touhou would be the first.

Hey man don’t put words in my mouth!

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I’m gonna try not to be a broken record whenever comes to Touhou from now on but I’m gonna reiterate that often people tell other people how big Touhou is without anyone really knowing about it at all until someone tells someone about it.

Like I said before, I’m not full into Japan’s pop culture but I think I’m pretty ok at acknowledging most of it and I was at least decently aware of Terry and SNK through KoF and even Hero with Dragon Que- er, Warrior but I had not once heard the words Touhou and Reimu spoken anywhere until FP2 speculation happened and the fact that they keep popping up is quite honestly baffling to me.

 

[Shroob]

I’m gonna try not to be a broken record whenever comes to Touhou from now on but I’m gonna reiterate that often people tell other people how big Touhou is without anyone really knowing about it at all until someone tells someone about it.

Like I said before, I’m not full into Japan’s pop culture but I think I’m pretty ok at acknowledging most of it and I was at least decently aware of Terry and SNK through KoF and even Hero with Dragon Que- er, Warrior but I had not once heard the words Touhou and Reimu spoken anywhere until FP2 speculation happened and the fact that they keep popping up is quite honestly baffling to me.

I mean, on the opposite end of the spectrum, I've know about it since probably around 2007-2008, which at that point was already 5~ years after the first modern-era game came out.

It really depends entirely on where you frequented. If you went on 4chan back in the day, or immersed yourself in YouTube poops back during their golden era? You 100% knew Touhou, it was frankly impossible not to way back when due to how widespread it was. Hell, even now, big youtubers like Alpharad use its music as various BGMs in his vids.

 

[SpectreJordan]

That's really impressive. It honestly makes me want Lara Croft more than before to see her success going strong. Though sales aren't everything, really impressive sales are good at seeing more concrete worldwide popularity and recognizability.

Though with Sephiroth being this pass' Square Enix rep, I'm mighty doubtful of her appearance. Especially when the Final Fantasy series from SE is at around 150 million and they just got a fighter this pass.

Plus, there's series with bigger accolades. Let's not forget how an old certain game keeps selling around 20 million units per year for at least 2 years now and is sitting at 140 million units sold on its own with a series that has sold over 320 million units. While I feel like seeing a fighter for this series isn't too likely at this point, I'm at least betting on seeing a Mii Costume from the series at some point.

I really doubt this sadly. Rockstar seems to pride theirselves on being independent & seemingly not selling out. They haven’t been to an E3 since around 2007. They also rarely merchandise their franchises even though GTA/Red Dead collectibles having the potential to make millions. I think you can only buy shirts directly from their website too.

I just can’t see them getting involved in Smash.

 

[DevaAshera]

So much this. If they were gonna give and indie series a full Fighter, I don't think Touhou would be the first.

Honestly, you underestimate just how popular Touhou is and has been in Japan since the late 90s..not many Indie series can compare to lasting that long and Japanese popularity is likely to come into play considering the Japan Bias many developers in Japan tend to have, not to mention Sakurai mentioning before how he prefers being able to converse without the need of a translator with the creators of the characters when devising movesets.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Speaking of Indie, I'd love Binding of Isaac to get a Mii costume.


....never will happen though possibly due to Nintendo and the dev's fairly bad blood between them though, and the game's general content.

What happened between them? Meat Boy and Isaac are both on the Switch now; I tried searching this up, but just saw an old thing with the dev saying it seemed people in Nintendo were positive they’d approve Isaac on the 3DS but then were on the fence, and they rejected it in the end. The dev said he understood them though and had no bad blood, but this was all in 2012 so idk if more happened, that’s just what came up.

 

[Shroob]

What happened between them? Meat Boy and Isaac are both on the Switch now; I tried searching this up, but just saw an old thing with the dev saying it seemed people in Nintendo were positive they’d approve Isaac on the 3DS but then were on the fence, and they rejected it in the end. The dev said he understood them though and had no bad blood, but this was all in 2012 so idk if more happened, that’s just what came up.

He had some pretty choice words irt Nintendo, but kept it rather off the record.

 

[DevaAshera]

I’m gonna try not to be a broken record whenever comes to Touhou from now on but I’m gonna reiterate that often people tell other people how big Touhou is without anyone really knowing about it at all until someone tells someone about it.

Like I said before, I’m not full into Japan’s pop culture but I think I’m pretty ok at acknowledging most of it and I was at least decently aware of Terry and SNK through KoF and even Hero with Dragon Que- er, Warrior but I had not once heard the words Touhou and Reimu spoken anywhere until FP2 speculation happened and the fact that they keep popping up is quite honestly baffling to me.

I mean, I didn't know what the Fate/series was until last year despite it being massively popular in Japan and growing more and more popular in the West.
You not knowing of Touhou simply down to two things. It didn't come up anywhere you were on social media or anything like that and the Touhou series largely hasn't seen Western releases despite its Japanese popularity, likely owing to many of its entries being largely fan made and thus not exactly easy to localize, rights-wise.
I learned of Touhou back in the days of Super Smash Bros. Brawl speculation when someone on a forum I was on was really pulling for Reimu to appear in the game.

 

[N3ON]

I mean, on the opposite end of the spectrum, I've know about it since probably around 2007-2008, which at that point was already 5~ years after the first modern-era game came out.

It really depends entirely on where you frequented. If you went on 4chan back in the day, or immersed yourself in YouTube poops back during their golden era? You 100% knew Touhou, it was frankly impossible not to way back when due to how widespread it was. Hell, even now, big youtubers like Alpharad use its music as various BGMs in his vids.

How many people do you think heard All Your Base Are Belong to Us who can tell you which game that came from?
I know someone here will be able to, that's not the point of the question.

One aspect of something reaching meme status is not the best indicator of general knowledge regarding that subject.

Honestly, you underestimate just how popular Touhou is and has been in Japan since the late 90s..not many Indie series can compare to lasting that long and Japanese popularity is likely to come into play considering the Japan Bias many developers in Japan tend to have, not to mention Sakurai mentioning before how he prefers being able to converse without the need of a translator with the creators of the characters when devising movesets.

You say that like Japan is otherwise hurting for franchises with popularity that have actually been localized globally. If you're invoking Sakurai statements, the one he made about regional exclusivity might be pertinent here.

I think they would dip harder into western franchises before going with series that barely exist in certain regions. Above Japan bias, that is what Smash avoids.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Hey man don’t put words in my mouth!

Sorry, misquote.

Honestly, you underestimate just how popular Touhou is

Yeah, that's what Touhou fans keep saying. But I think they're the ones overestimating it.

 

[Shroob]

How many people do you think heard All Your Base Are Belong to Us who can tell you which game that came from?
I know someone here will be able to, that's not the point of the question.

One aspect of something reaching meme status is not the best indicator of general knowledge regarding that subject.


You say that like Japan is otherwise hurting for franchises with popularity that have actually been localized globally. If you're invoking Sakurai statements, the one he made about regional exclusivity might be pertinent here.

I think they would dip harder into western franchises before going with series that barely exist in certain regions. Above Japan bias, that is what Smash avoids.

I mean, again, I'm not saying it's gonna be in Smash, I'm just saying it's nowhere near as underground as people here seem to think.

Hell, we even have a Touhou emote on this site from since like, Smash 4 days, meaning that some staff member who was allowed emote access to infect this site with Touhou. Theoretically, by 6 degrees from Kevin Bacon logic, Touhou and Smash have already crossed over.


Touhou's western fanbase has been extremely strong and dedicated for a long, long time, if people don't know of it, well I mean, I don't blame 'em, I wouldn't have known about it unless I had experienced my first "Touhou Hijack lolz" back on like, 2008 4chan, but doing a basic search can see the western fanbase isn't like, "There are dozens of us, dozens!" level of size.


Again, I'm not saying it's gonna be in Smash, but I am saying that this isn't something that just sprung up overnight and only overnight, it's always been there since the mid 2000's, and only gotten bigger since, it's just not something that you're going to find unless you somehow stumble into it, or go looking yourself for it.

 

[TheCJBrine]

The mainline/official Touhou games do seem to be exclusive to Japan aside from fanmade patches that sound a bit confusing to apply iirc; I think only the newest game has an official localization if I remember right.

I think it’s cool and stuff, but yeah I also only know about it from here and Undertale inspirations/discussions and a soundfont or something lol, I think only actually knowing it for more than its genre/title (and Battle Against a True Hero using Touhou horns) after seeing Reimu discussed here.

Although, I could see it being treated similarly to Mother 3 in Smash, seemingly getting more stuff because the West got a hold of it and stuff themselves/it was popular (I’m not fully aware of Touhou’s western popularity though, but it seems decent).

 

[Idon]

"Hey this song is pretty good. What's it from?"
"Oh, just this musical group from Japan called RD-Sounds and sung by-"
"No, but what's it from?"
".... Touhou."

 

[7NATOR]

I knew about Touhou from Mugen, since there alot of Mugen games starring Touhou characters, and alot of edits of the Characters

Reimu herself had an Infamous edit of her called "Oni Miko Zero" Which was a very cheap character back in the day. Of course it didn't compare to some of the Orochi and Ronald Edits at the time, and especially not nowadays with some of the characters people be creating, but I think she was one of the characters that could kill or match up to Chuck Norris, and was just very cheap character in general

 

[Cosmic77]

Touhou is popular in Japan, but here's the thing — how many other series can claim the same? Better yet, how many series can claim that they're popular in Japan AND can stay afloat overseas? Let's take it step further; how many series are not only popular in Japan, but also popular in NA, EU, and most other parts of the world? I feel like this is where Reimu and Touhou fall flat. Yeah, there's a few characters like Hero who have lopsided support, but it seems like a majority of the third-parties we currently have are fairly popular in all regions.

Just how recognizable Reimu and Touhou are outside of Japan is up for debate, but to be completely honest, I'd say just about every third-party franchise on the roster dropkicks Touhou when put side-by-side. It just can't compete, and when you have seemingly limitless choices, I struggle to see why Nintendo would double down on Touhou when they could get the rights to a safer, more iconic franchise.