Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

If you're willing to wait until March 26, I can tell you all about Balan Wonderworld.

What, there's some other game coming out that day? Well, if I forgot about it, then it probably wasn't important.

We hunt monsters around here, sir

 

[Guynamednelson]

I mean, are things like hazards off Momentos, hazards off Minecraft World, ect. really that random and uncompetitive? I know that there‘s good reasons for not using these stages, but I’d like to see side events in tournaments using unorthodox stage lists more often.

Mementos' problem with hazards off is that it's still too big. As for Minecraft World, we have to wait for more people to be able to play offline to see if it's problematic.

 

[Pillow]

Good lord, people have standards I think


But to help steer discussion in a different direction, how would you all rank the new stages we got from DLC.

I've barely played on the non Omega/BF forms of these stages so I'll be rating the O/BF forms only.

9. Spiral Mountain
8. Spring Stadium
7. Northern Crater
6. Ygdrassil's Altar
5. Minecraft World
4. Sea of Alrest
3. Garreg March
2. KOF Stadium
1. Mementos

I mean, are things like hazards off Momentos, hazards off Minecraft World, ect. really that random and uncompetitive? I know that there‘s good reasons for not using these stages, but I’d like to see side events in tournaments using unorthodox stage lists more often.

I haven't played enough on these stages, and am not a good enough player to assess these things. Perhaps they aren't, but the point I was trying to make was that it doesn't matter at all if the pro community never decides to use them, as there's plenty of other people who would and that means it's not a pointless to discuss them.

 

[chocolatejr9]

We hunt monsters around here, sir

Now I remember!

It Takes Two comes out that day! I'll be honest, I kinda forgot about that one. Like, I saw it at the Game Awards, and then never again...

 

[TCT~Phantom]

I mean, are things like hazards off Momentos, hazards off Minecraft World, ect. really that random and uncompetitive? I know that there‘s good reasons for not using these stages, but I’d like to see side events in tournaments using unorthodox stage lists more often.

For one on ones, Minecraft and Mementos are just too big. The blastzones are bigger than PS2, which is already pretty big. Personally I think they should be run in doubles but whatever.

I am a stage liberal, and the only DLC stages that I could make the case for legalizing are Yggdrasil and Northern Cave. Yggdrasil is basically like Town except for the beginning and if you die there you were being dumb. Northern Cave outside of its intense background is perfect, although I do know plenty of people have issues with that.

Then lets try a different tack:

If we were to get a stage pass like suggested before, what stages would you like to see? Could be from any represented or even unrepresented franchise, just have fun with some ideas.

Tetris
Bowser's Castle
New Los Angeles
Pac Maze
Poke Floats
Milky Way Wishes
Ganon's Tower
Ancestral Steppe

The last three are gimmies, we already have the models in the game via the boss areas. Please Sakurai if you need three stages as DLC do those!

 

[Shroob]

For one on ones, Minecraft and Mementos are just too big. The blastzones are bigger than PS2, which is already pretty big. Personally I think they should be run in doubles but whatever.

I am a stage liberal, and the only DLC stages that I could make the case for legalizing are Yggdrasil and Northern Cave. Yggdrasil is basically like Town except for the beginning and if you die there you were being dumb. Northern Cave outside of its intense background is perfect, although I do know plenty of people have issues with that.


Tetris
Bowser's Castle
New Los Angeles
Pac Maze
Poke Floats
Milky Way Wishes
Ganon's Tower
Ancestral Steppe

The last three are gimmies, we already have the models in the game via the boss areas. Please Sakurai if you need three stages as DLC do those!

Isn't Northern Cave also a copyright nightmare?

I've seen people posting copyright strikes for using Northern Cave in their vids due to the music.

 

[Technomage]

Then lets try a different tack:

If we were to get a stage pass like suggested before, what stages would you like to see? Could be from any represented or even unrepresented franchise, just have fun with some ideas.

Hmmmm, stages I'd like to see:

A Bowser Castle
A R.O.B. themed stage (since the ROB series is the only series that has a playable fighter, but no stages)
Tower of Guidance from Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn (maybe it could be like Castle Siege, including an outdoor area filled with revived Disciples of Order)
Clanker's Cavern (fighting in a sewer full of poop water would be hilarious)
The Heavenly Keep from Etrian Odyssey 2

 

[cashregister9]

Then lets try a different tack:

If we were to get a stage pass like suggested before, what stages would you like to see? Could be from any represented or even unrepresented franchise, just have fun with some ideas.

Galar Wild Area
Rhythm Heaven Stage
Bring back Pac-Maze
Bring back Rainbow Road
Super Nintendo Land/Mount Beanpole
Tetris
Octo Canyon
The Underground form Undertale
Inkwell Isle

 

[Knight Dude]

so who do you guys want for the rest of fighters pass?

Personally? Any combo of Mega Man X(or any MM protag) and Jin Kazama. Hayabusa, Lara Croft or Chun-Li would also be cool someday. Hell Crash would be neat too.

But mostly Mega Man X. X1 and X2 are some of my favorite games of all time.

 

[Otoad64]

I don't understand half the reasons stages are banned because I'm not good enough at the game to do most of the stuff the stages are being banned for encouraging

 

[Pillow]

Then lets try a different tack:

If we were to get a stage pass like suggested before, what stages would you like to see? Could be from any represented or even unrepresented franchise, just have fun with some ideas.

In no particular order

1. Tetris
2. Aperture Science
3. Skyrim
4. Halo
5. Los Santos
6. Anor Londo
7. Silent Hill
8. Raccoon City

 

[Idon]

Isn't Northern Cave also a copyright nightmare?

I've seen people posting copyright strikes for using Northern Cave in their vids due to the music.

Yeah, if you wanna make some money and/or not have your videos/VODs muted... you're gonna have to either play on that stage muted or simply just not allow it at all.

 

[Technomage]

so who do you guys want for the rest of fighters pass?

Hmmmm, I'd like for one of them to be Crash. Haven't figured out the second want, though. Maybe Bubsy?

 

[DanganZilla5]

Good lord, people have standards I think

But to help steer discussion in a different direction, how would you all rank the new stages we got from DLC. Here is mine

9. Garreg Mach Monastery

I barely play on this stage. I don't think it's bad or anything, it's just not very exciting to play on. Also the inside locations feel dead. And it doesn't help that I'm not a Fire Emblem fan.

8. Spring Stadium

Pretty cool stage with some good scenery but aside from the jump pads it's not too interesting of a stage.

7. Spiral Mountain

The spinning doesn't bother me but again the layout isn't too exciting.

6. Yggdrasil's Altar

I like Dragon Quest 11 so this stage is a treat. I like that chests can appear and there is a chance they can be a trap. It's also a generally colorful stage and the platform is big enough to fight comfortably on.

5. Cloud Sea of Alrest

Beautiful stage that showcases several elements from the game. I adore it even if it's not the most interesting stage to fight on.

4. Mementos

The style of the stage is excellent and it's very fun with the changing proportions of the ceiling and the trains that pass by. It's wild.

3. Northern Cave

Very basic, but it arguably has the best visuals out of all the stages. It is jaw-dropping how stunning this stage with the colors and the details. Most impressive.

2. KOF Stadium

First off, it's a stadium which I like because it's rad looking and visually stands out from all the arena-style stages. And omg when you KO opponents against the wall it is just so satisfying with the sound effects and particles.

1. Minecraft World

Minecraft is one of my favorite games and a Minecraft stage was one of my most wanted stages. It paid off very well. Destructible blocks, 6 different biomes, and plenty of references within the stage. As a Minecraft fan, this is mind-blowing to see in Smash.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

I don't understand half the reasons stages are banned because I'm not good enough at the game to do most of the stuff the stages are being banned for encouraging

Walk offs are banned because you can just camp at the edge to get cheeky kills.

Some stages are banned due to the layout not being competitive. A great example of this is Kongo Jungle 64. You can just run away real easily on that stage and circle camp your opponent. Some characters, like say Ganon or Little Mac, are just unable to compete with that. Kongo Jungle 64 is just one example but lots of stages just do not have a great layout for competitive. Other issues in geometry like walls can be reason to ban a stage.

Finally, size is a factor. If a stage is too big or too small, there are issues. Obviously something like Temple is too big, but another good example is Mushroom Kingdom U. While hazards off the stage is relatively tame, it is too big for singles. Being too small can be bad too. Dying at 40% is a reason plenty of people no longer like to play on WarioWare.

 

[Otoad64]

Walk offs are banned because you can just camp at the edge to get cheeky kills.

Some stages are banned due to the layout not being competitive. A great example of this is Kongo Jungle 64. You can just run away real easily on that stage and circle camp your opponent. Some characters, like say Ganon or Little Mac, are just unable to compete with that. Kongo Jungle 64 is just one example but lots of stages just do not have a great layout for competitive. Other issues in geometry like walls can be reason to ban a stage.

Finally, size is a factor. If a stage is too big or too small, there are issues. Obviously something like Temple is too big, but another good example is Mushroom Kingdom U. While hazards off the stage is relatively tame, it is too big for singles. Being too small can be bad too. Dying at 40% is a reason plenty of people no longer like to play on WarioWare.

yeah I think I just suck lol

 

[SWSU]

Alright, So I'm terrible with Stage names, so I'll just list them with the character they came with.

9. I just find the stage bland and unappealing.
8. The Stage itself is eh, but I just don't really care for the music I'm limited to.
7. Similar, but it has better music, so I appreciate it more.
6. It's a bit too small, and Gramps can get a little annoying after a while.
5. Bright, Colorful, Perfectly Average
4. I get the Spiral Gimmick, but it doesnt really work for me. But the Design and Look of the Stage makes up for that.

3. You can tell a ton of effort was put into this, and it paid off.
2. The Music Idea works REALLY Well here, and while I get they can't do it for every stage. It makes this one special.
1. Easily. I love the gimmick with the stage. It really offers a new style in Smash, and Honestly in Smash 6 I would love for all Stages to have a KOF Form like Battlefield/Omega

 

[cothero]

What do you guys think about Gengar as the final character? A completely unexpected choice, just like Piranha Plant (which started the DLC waves), Gengar would be a much cooler Pokémon addition than any other horrible gen 8 mon (and he's HUGELY popular too).

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

yeah I think I just suck lol

If you don't play competitive whatsoever, nor watch any videos, you wouldn't know why many are banned.

That's just completely normal. You have no experience with it. You don't suck, you just didn't have the knowledge. But yeah, if you don't plan to ever play competitive, there's no reason to really care about it. Just have fun and all~

...Man, I forgot how much Ganondorf gets massively gimped by some stages due to his mediocre movement(which is better than being super slow in 4 and Brawl...). If it makes you feel any better, I'm only casual-competitive and some stages I would absolutely use despite some issues. Like the aforementioned Kongo Jungle 64. I love the stage. It's actually the only stage in Smash 64(playable) that is hazard free in pretty much every way. The barrel does kind of matter, but it's not an actual hazard. Yoshi's Story comes close otherwise, though the clouds suddenly disappearing is an actual hazard for gameplay. It doesn't help the hazards can sometimes be massively strong, but also easy to avoid(I'd argue Planet Zebes and Peach's Castle 64 are the two worst stages for a tournament among the normal ones. ...Well, that isn't Mushroom Kingdom, hoo boy).

Man, it'd have been cool if every stage returned. >.>

 

[cashregister9]

What do you guys think about Gengar as the final character? A completely unexpected choice, just like Piranha Plant (which started the DLC waves), Gengar would be a much cooler Pokémon addition than any other horrible gen 8 mon (and he's HUGELY popular too).

View attachment 306368

While Gengar is cool. I'm sick of Gen 1, I want to see some more variety in Pokemon picks.

Also that Gen 8 comment is like... your opinion man.

 

[Pillow]

What do you guys think about Gengar as the final character? A completely unexpected choice, just like Piranha Plant (which started the DLC waves), Gengar would be a much cooler Pokémon addition than any other horrible gen 8 mon (and he's HUGELY popular too).

View attachment 306368

While I have lots of issues with SwSh none of them are with the pokemon designs, which is one of the things GF actually still does well.

That said, I wouldn’t be opposed to gengar. He could definitely have a fun moveset. I think there are better options though, even just among pokemon.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

We rating the DLC stages?

Spoiler: Longish

9. Spiral Mountain - Overall kinda bland and meshes with a lot of the other grassy plain stages. Plus the spinning is pretty unnecessary. Feel like they could've chosen a better BK stage.

8. Yggdrasil's Alter - Again, just a pretty bland stage overall.

7. Northern Crater - Ngl, this just feels like a slightly flashier FD to me. Maybe if I actually played FFVII, I'd appreciate it more. Enjoy the layout though.

6. Spring Stadium - Far from my first choice for an ARMS stage, but I think it's still solid and really nails the ARMS atmosphere. The springboards are fun to use and the drones carrying items ala the original game is a really cute touch.

5. Garreg Mach Monastery - Love the setting and atmosphere in this one. Also probably has one of my favorite omega forms period.

4. Minecraft World - It was honestly gonna be hard to screw up a Minecraft stage, but I think they still did an impressive job regardless. Love all the biomes, and the mobs in the background really give it life. Plus it's fun just to destroy all the breakable blocks. My only gripe is that I would've prefered completely randomized layouts compared to presets, but I understand that'd probably be a bit too ambitious.

3. Cloud Sea of Alrest - Fighting on top of a dragon is cool. Skimming on top of clouds is cool. The best way to describe this stage is just "Cool"

2. Mementos - Love the whole aspect of this one being morseo based on the Persona 5 UI rather than Mementos itself. The P3 and P4 layouts/songs are a nice touch too.

1. King of Fighters Stadium - A legitimate contender for my favorite stage in the game period. The setting's cool, the cameos are charming, and I really dig the ring-out mechanics. And of course, the music selection is amazing.

The only ones I'm not crazy about are the bottom 3. Spring Stadium onwards are all great and I end up coming back to em again and again. Really excited to see what the last 2 will entail

 

[Knight Dude]

I'll be honest, there's not really any Pokemon I'd be looking forward to. At least my dudes Blastoise and Blaziken are in Pokken.

 

[Shroob]

I like Gen 8's music and Pokemon.

Game itself is pretty crap and I'm much more looking forward to the D/P remakes, but if we were to get a Gen 8 rep, honestly as long as it's not the starters or box legendries, I'd be down.


Gimme something weird like Dracovish, Sirfetch'd or Toxtricity.

 

[SharkLord]

What do you guys think about Gengar as the final character? A completely unexpected choice, just like Piranha Plant (which started the DLC waves), Gengar would be a much cooler Pokémon addition than any other horrible gen 8 mon (and he's HUGELY popular too).

View attachment 306368

If we're just talking fighters, he'd be pretty cool. We don't have a Ghost-type Pokemon, and he could pull of some pretty screwy %$#@. Problem is, we already have about four Kanto fighters (Six, counting the starters separately) and I think we have enough Gen 1 content for the time being.

 

[Perkilator]

Then lets try a different tack:

If we were to get a stage pass like suggested before, what stages would you like to see? Could be from any represented or even unrepresented franchise, just have fun with some ideas.

Old Stages

1. Poke Floats
2. Rainbow Road
3. PAC-MAZE
4. Wooly World

New Stages

1. Bowser's Castle
2. Gyromite
3. Tetris

 

[Pillow]

I like Gen 8's music and Pokemon.

Game itself is pretty crap and I'm much more looking forward to the D/P remakes, but if we were to get a Gen 8 rep, honestly as long as it's not the starters or box legendries, I'd be down.


Gimme something weird like Dracovish, Sirfetch'd or Toxtricity.

Dracovish...suffers into Smash. Or perhaps he fishious rends his way into being banned from tournaments

 

[Shroob]

Dracovish...suffers into Smash. Or perhaps he fishious rends his way into being banned from tournaments

The funny thing is both Dracovish AND Sirfetch'd have anime relevance, since Ash has both(Or will eventually evolve his Galarian Farfetch'd soon).

 

[Pillow]

The funny thing is both Dracovish AND Sirfetch'd have anime relevance, since Ash has both(Or will eventually evolve his Galarian Farfetch'd soon).

I haven’t followed the anime in years, but that’s a cool thing in their favor I guess.

My personal favorite pokemon are Reuniclus, Quagsire (try to find the wooper in my sig), Krookadile and Slowbro and out of all of those I think only krookadile would fit well as a smash fighter. I do like Sirfetch’d from gen 8, and think purzerker or whatever the steel meowth was called would be a cool fighter as well that’s an actual small sized heavyweight...but I’m also of the opinion we have enough pokemon in Ultimate right now.

 

[ARandomZoomer]

Stages that I'd like to see without being tied to a specific character?
Sootopolis City from Pokemon
One of underground caves from Pikmin 2
The battle stage from early Paper Mario or the second chapter area from Thousand Year Door (forgot what it's called)
Shadow Temple from Zelda OoT
And Lindblum from FF9

 

[Cosmic77]

I really wish people could separate their feelings of SwSh from the Pokémon that debuted in it.

It's fine if you don't like the games, but I see too many comments implying that Gen 8 Pokémon suck simply because they're Gen 8 Pokémon.

 

[SharkLord]

Dracovish...suffers into Smash. Or perhaps he fishious rends his way into being banned from tournaments

DRACOVISH Wants to Battle Die

 

[Shroob]

I really wish people could separate their feelings of SwSh from the Pokémon that debuted in it.

It's fine if you don't like the games, but I see too many comments implying that Gen 8 Pokémon suck simply because they're Gen 8 Pokémon.

I love Gen 8's roster of Mons tbh.

But if we're getting one, all I ask is something outside the box instead of the safest of safe choices. Like I mentioned above, why not two of Ash's Galarian 'mons? Or the Mon you hid all the way back in ORAS?

 

[SpecterFlower]

9. Cloud Sea Of Alrest - Too Small, The Cameos can barely be seen at some points, You can't hear Gramps and there is a lot of missed potential, We should have gone closer to the titans and if that wasn't possible Uraya, Argentum, Torna and the Leftheiran Archipelago would have been more interesting stages.

Xenoblade 2 has so many great locations, i think it should've been like mementos, except with the possibility of going to mor ardain, uraya, leftheria and argentum, but gramps back being in the middle of nowhere sucks, especially considering that location only appears for like 5 minutes in the game.

 

[Louie G.]

At this point especially I would be very upset if we got a Gen 8 Pokemon (and I don't think we will, for a number of reasons) but Toxtricity is genuinely awesome and ticks off a lot of boxes for a kind of character I would really enjoy in Smash so... there are certainly exceptions.

 

[Cosmic77]

I love Gen 8's roster of Mons tbh.

But if we're getting one, all I ask is something outside the box instead of the safest of safe choices. Like I mentioned above, why not two of Ash's Galarian 'mons? Or the Mon you hid all the way back in ORAS?

Well, that's one of the reasons why I'm supporting the Legendaries.

Sure, they're definitely safe options, but I also don't think they're more of the same. None of the boxart Legendaries have ever become playable, and Mewtwo is the only Legendary in general. They also stray away from the biped Pokémon who share a lot of human qualities that Sakurai seems to favor.

 

[ShrimpScampi]

My thoughts on the stages so far:
9. Spiral Mountain (): This is the only DLC stage I actively dislike. The rotation gimmick when hazards are on can be interesting, but it also gets disorienting for me. Hazardless is just awkwardly shaped, with the little corner on the right side and the huuuuge open space on the left. Honestly, I wouldn't mind it as much if the wooden platforms at the beginning didn't leave forever. It's just really awkward to play on.

--- big gap here ---
8. Garreg Mach Monastery (): I'm not a big fan of walk-offs, but design-wise I'm happy with this. Fire Emblem stages in general have been kind of weird because the franchise doesn't have too many iconic locations with distinct designs. (Or at the very least, the grid-based gameplay makes it harder to give us locations that would work as Smash Stages without some major creativity.) Arena Ferox is a real place in Awakening, but the stage layout is more or less original to Smash. It's nice to see a Fire Emblem stage that's an actual location from one of the games, even if I only play it on Battlefield or Omega form.
7. Spring Stadium (): This is an enjoyable stage to mess around on. The ceiling panels are a small addition, but one that can lead to some really funny interactions. The jump pads with hazards on are also a fun little mechanic. I don't have much connection to it as a location, but it's a fun time.
6. Cloud Sea of Alrest (): I love the Cloud Sea visually. The Leftherian Archipelago was easily my favorite area in XC2 because of its integration with the Cloud Sea, so I'm happy we also got the Cloud Sea as a stage as opposed to one of the individual titans. (I am a bit sad that Leftheria isn't included in the background Titans, though.) In terms of layout, Gramps can be a bit unwieldy, and the way it's hard to tell where the ledge is as he's moving reminds me a bit of Spiral Mountain, but aside from that it's pretty good. I was worried about it being harder to see your character when you go below the clouds, but I think the silhouette approach they did worked well.
5. Yggdrasil's Altar (): I enjoy the background visuals of the stage, and gameplay-wise it kind of feels like Big Town & City -- one long, flat stage with platform layouts that cycle in and out. It was a much better stage for me back when I played , since I had big, stage-spanning projectiles and could fly around whenever I wanted, but now that I play more characters like / / / who don't have that, it's not as advantageous to my characters lol.
4. Minecraft World (): Surrealness of playing Smash in Minecraft aside, I like the day/night cycles and different biomes that this stage has going on. There are a handful of layouts, but all of them are enjoyable to play on, so regardless of which one I get I have a good time.
3. Northern Cave (): It's simple, but visually stunning. I also enjoy the layout -- the close blast zones and platform layout make doing up-B setups with a TON of fun. I don't have much to say about it, tbh -- it's a cool stage with a simple but good layout.
2. Mementos (): When I first found out that Joker would be in Smash, I was hoping the casino would be the stage, but honestly I'm super happy with what they did with Mementos. Putting the Persona 5 (and 3 and 4!) UI elements into a stage was a great idea, and the hazards version keeps things interesting with the walls & ceilings coming in & out, along with the trains whooshing in below.
1. King of Fighters Stadium (): The wall mechanic is unlike anything else in Smash (aside from I guess Home Run Contest's walls for Sandbag) and provides a completely different way to play. Also, while I don't play Fatal Fury or KoF much, I can see the love that went into all the stage cameos. While I go back to some of the other stages more, this one has to be my top stage because it's basically a separate game mode entirely.

 

[Mamboo07]

There's now a mod of Pyra and Mythra having swimsuit alt costumes.

 

[Arcanir]

Good lord, people have standards I think

But to help steer discussion in a different direction, how would you all rank the new stages we got from DLC. Here is mine

9) Spiral Mountain: Nice idea, but not the best execution.

9) Spring Stadium: It's an OK stage, and I like messing around with the gimmick at times, but it's one of the stages I've gone back to the least. I do like the execution a bit more then Spiral Mountain though.

7) Garreg Mach Monastery: I like that we got another non-generic stage from FE, it's one of the critiques I've had with the franchise in Smash and seeing that addressed here was good to see. I also like that we do get to see the different areas of the game's main hub. That said, I do wish they did a bit more with it as it is a little lacking compared to the stages above it.

6) Minecraft World: Good visuals and nice to mess around with. I'd probably rank it higher if I was more familiar with Minecraft, but it's still a good stage regardless of that lack of experience.

5) Cloud of Alrest: It's simple, but having Azurda talk and commentate as the action unfolds is really cute and gives it a great amount of personality. A flaw to that though is that the sounds can muffle the poor dragon, so sometimes you don't get to hear him if too much is going on.

4) Mementos: I love the style behind this stage, Persona has always had a fun visual and this stage is no different. Hazards can be a little intrusive at times, but it's still a great stage to mess around with.

3) Yggdrasil's Altar: Lovely visuals, as someone who played DQ11 it's really nice to see this stage in action as they got the world of the game represented pretty well. I also like the smaller touches like the chests that can be opened (or the Mimics messing with you), which gives it a good amount of charm.

2) Northern Cavern: Beautiful stage, I love how the visuals portray the final moments of the story as you go down deeper into the crater and eventually climb out for the climax. The only thing that prevents me from putting it at the top is the lack of a different layout or small interactivity.

1) KOF Stadium: Great visuals, the cameos are very nice to have, and playing on it is a blast due to the walls forcing a different interactivity with the fights. I love messing around in this stage, and it's my favorite to go-to for random matches.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Individual rankings aren't my style. I'll do them in a tier list instead.

GOAT Tier:
KOF Stadium
Cloud Sea of Alrest
Spring Stadium

Really Fun Tier:
Mementos
Garreg Mach Monetary
Northern Cavern

They're Alright Tier:
Minecraft World
Yggdrasil's Alter

Problematic Tier:
Spiral Mountain

All of them are good stages except Spiral Mountain. I have several friends who can't actually play on it due to it making them sick.