Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Original tweet date is June 8th 2019, so it was well after the datamine/Shinobi's leak.

I want to see the original tweet for better context. Namely, what he predicted and why.

...Cause as of now, these sound like either one incorrect guess(if he only said Erdrick) or semi-easy guesses(Steve being one of the easiest guesses to get).

 

[Shroob]

I want to see the original tweet for better context. Namely, what he predicted and why.

...Cause as of now, these sound like either one incorrect guess(if he only said Erdrick) or semi-easy guesses(Steve being one of the easiest guesses to get).

All you have to do is click the tweet within a tweet to see the original tweet.


Here.

One of these 4 are inevitable. pic.twitter.com/HSDJm0LqAI

— Digi (@NoponDigi) June 9, 2019

 

[BlondeLombax]

All you have to do is click the tweet within a tweet to see the original tweet.


Here.

One of these 4 are inevitable. pic.twitter.com/HSDJm0LqAI

— Digi (@NoponDigi) June 9, 2019

I damn near choked when I saw this. Absolutely remarkable how just unfathomably prophetic a lot of community memes are.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Its funny because both a Lloyd and a Gen 8 Pokémon will be recurring elements in conversation until the end of Ultimate because they share a situation of "You can't count them out of the running even after all this time."

Its just that that sentiment is commonly said with hope for the former and almost trepidation with the latter.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

All you have to do is click the tweet within a tweet to see the original tweet.


Here.

Thank you.

Well, not impressive, then.

Banjo-Kazooie is the only one some credit can be given to as a good guess. It was a character many thought had no chance.

Steve is a large gaming icon. That was inevitable.

Erdrick isn't the only important part. Hero is a Class with 4 alts. It'd be decently impressive if he guessed Luminary, which not many thought was going to be the face, but instead it's something the majority thought would be the actual character(instead of an alt). Very few guessed it being a Class. And even a leaker(I forget his name) spoke of Alts.

Let's see if Sora still comes, and he'd be a legit impressive guess.

It's cool he got what he wanted, at least.

 

[Shroob]

Thank you.

Well, not impressive, then.

Banjo-Kazooie is the only one some credit can be given to as a good guess. It was a character many thought had no chance.

Steve is a large gaming icon. That was inevitable.

Erdrick isn't the only important part. Hero is a Class with 4 alts. It'd be decently impressive if he guessed Luminary, which not many thought was going to be the face, but instead it's something the majority thought would be the actual character(instead of an alt). Very few guessed it being a Class. And even a leaker(I forget his name) spoke of Alts.

Let's see if Sora still comes, and he'd be a legit impressive guess.

It's cool he got what he wanted, at least.

Is Banjo really even credit? Shinobi leaked them days before this and that **** was everywhere.

Its funny because both a Lloyd and a Gen 8 Pokémon will be recurring elements in conversation until the end of Ultimate because they share a situation of "You can't count them out of the running even after all this time."

Its just that that sentiment is commonly said with hope for the former and almost trepidation with the latter.

Lloyd lives... for as long as his Mii costume doesn't show up. If it suddenly pops up, dream's dead.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Is Banjo really even credit? Shinobi leaked them days before this and that **** was everywhere.

Not everybody believes leaks, but it's a decent guess, I mean. But fair point.

That said, prepare for a name change soon. I got what I needed to do so~

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Is Banjo really even credit? Shinobi leaked them days before this and that **** was everywhere.



Lloyd lives... for as long as his Mii costume doesn't show up. If it suddenly pops up, dream's dead.

Which has me hoping that if Lloyd only returns as a costume that its for fighter 10 and not 11. Its been an arduous wait either way, but taking it to literally the last fighter pack would just be unnecessarily painful.

 

[SpecterFlower]

+Tales of is arguably the 4th largest JRPG of all time and Lloyd specifically had a Mii costume

if this was a decade ago I would agree with you.

but it's popularity has waned in recent years with the games barely reaching 1 million

Tales

Tales, also known as Tales of, is a series of action role-playing games developed and published by Bandai Namco. As of 2024, the series has sold more than 30 million units worldwide. One of the most successful entries in this series is Tales of Vesperia, which benefited from exclusivity and...

vgsales.fandom.com

if it were to get in on any factor it would be legacy and ease of negotiations.

EDIT: btw since then tales of vesperia DE has sold 1mil, likely putting it past or at least near symphonia.

Bersaria likely sold more than 1mil but i think arise will put it back on a downward trend. it'll still sell like 1.5 mil but i don't think it'll top vesperia or symphonia.

 

[3BitSaurus]

You know... the sadist in me has been looking at all the "[New DLC character] is BROKEN!!!" videos that have spawned for pretty much every challenger pack, and thinking...

...how can we **** this meta?

What are some choices for the last 2 that you can see drawing a lot of cries of "broken" to send Ultimate off with a bang and how would they do it?

This was also totally not inspired by me rewatching old videos of Bayo in Smash 4 and Kat in PSASBR, nope.

 

[SharkLord]

Its funny because both a Lloyd and a Gen 8 Pokémon will be recurring elements in conversation until the end of Ultimate because they share a situation of "You can't count them out of the running even after all this time."

Its just that that sentiment is commonly said with hope for the former and almost trepidation with the latter.

There's also the fact that Lloyd's case isn't quite as definitive. The pattern's been that the Miis are all coming back, but it hasn't actually happened with him yet. SwSh got a Spirit Event which are generally considered death sentences. But, as you mentioned, everyone's cynical about a Gen 8 Pokemon, and so people keep bringing it back when any other series would've been written off.

 

[Otoad64]

You know... the sadist in me has been looking at all the "[New DLC character] is BROKEN!!!" videos that have spawned for pretty much every challenger pack, and thinking...

...how can we **** this meta?

What are some choices for the last 2 that you can see drawing a lot of cries of "broken" to send Ultimate off with a bang and how would they do it?

This was also totally not inspired by me rewatching old videos of Bayo in Smash 4 and Kat in PSASBR, nope.

the last character is Ultra Instinct Goku, a single hit sends you barrelling across the stage

that or we just add Brawl Meta Knight as a seperate character

 

[Rie Sonomura]

In a way I guess it’s a good thing we know in advance that this is most likely gonna be it. Not like in 4 where you got the final presentation announcement after Cloud and all that anticipation and it blew up in many people’s faces

I still remember that day. It was awful. Wolf supporters took it the WORST.

 

[SharkLord]

You know... the sadist in me has been looking at all the "[New DLC character] is BROKEN!!!" videos that have spawned for pretty much every challenger pack, and thinking...

...how can we **** this meta?

What are some choices for the last 2 that you can see drawing a lot of cries of "broken" to send Ultimate off with a bang and how would they do it?

This was also totally not inspired by me rewatching old videos of Bayo in Smash 4 and Kat in PSASBR, nope.

Reimu

A truckload of projectiles, mixed with flight and literal Ultra Instinct before Ultra Instinct was even conceptualized. There's your game-breaker.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

You know... the sadist in me has been looking at all the "[New DLC character] is BROKEN!!!" videos that have spawned for pretty much every challenger pack, and thinking...

...how can we **** this meta?

What are some choices for the last 2 that you can see drawing a lot of cries of "broken" to send Ultimate off with a bang and how would they do it?

This was also totally not inspired by me rewatching old videos of Bayo in Smash 4 and Kat in PSASBR, nope.

A character with Bat Within, a mechanic given to a character who has slow normals as a deliberate weakness, but they have big disjoints that come out super fast and they can stance change out to become Ganon with a sword.


Half jokes aside, a character who can reliably selfheal is objectively ****ing miserable. Like idk, Ragna constantly healing off of every hit he lands or someone who naturally heals 5% for every 10% they get or some ****

 

[3BitSaurus]

Reimu

A truckload of projectiles, mixed with flight and literal Ultra Instinct before Ultra Instinct was even conceptualized. There's your game-breaker.

I mean, if you gave her the usual fire rate of Touhou games, that alone could make her broken.

 

[Pillow]

A character with Bat Within, a mechanic given to a character who has slow normals as a deliberate weakness, but they have big disjoints that come out super fast and they can stance change out to become Ganon with a sword.


Half jokes aside, a character who can reliably selfheal is objectively *ing miserable. Like idk, Ragna constantly healing off of every hit he lands or someone who naturally heals 5% for every 10% they get or some *

Doesn't WFT technically have 2 reliable self heals?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I mean, if you gave her the usual fire rate of Touhou games, that alone could make her broken.

Considering how hitstun doesn't exist in Touhou, that may not be true

Doesn't WFT technically have 2 reliable self heals?

It's such a pitiful amount that takes up a lot of time to actually set up so it's barely noticable, especially as Deep Breathing's timing takes longer if used in succession, not to mention that if you get Deep Breathing off, you get to go ham so why bother sitting back and heal 2% when you could be giving 40% in a short combo

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Gotta say, with DLC nearing the end, it's gonna be a bit of a strange feeling playing SSBU without pondering what's next for the game. Not a bad feeling per se, but one that will take a lot of getting used to.

We can talk about how its amazing such a game like Ultimate actually exists. A game that has Mario, Sonic, Snake, Pac-Man, Mega Man, Cloud, Ryu, Simon, Steve, Banjo all in the same game. Who knew this could happen.

 

[MrMcNuts]

People wanted a Xenoblade character since early ultimate speculation days, that was 3 years ago.

Finally we were heard and thats good.

BTW I know that now there are no more reliable leaks but at Sakurai’s last presentation, he mentions that they first thought of putting first Rex with Pyra/Mythra and if you remember that 40 name character list, it mentions Rex. Moreover, it also mentions Arthur and we got a mii costume of him. Maybe it was a simple coincidence (List:https://gamefaqs1.cbsistatic.com/user_image/8/0/3/AAe0kDAAA_Lz.jpg). If we take out already confirmed fighters, mii costumes and from that same companies, we got a list of 18 characters left:

1) Bandana Waddle Dee (Nintendo)
2) Bill Rizer (Konami)
3) Captain Toad (Nintendo)
4) Doom Slayer (Bethesda)
5) Flynn (Sega)
6) Jibanyan (Level-5)
7) Lana (??)
8) Linkle (Nintendo/Koei-Tecmo)
9) Lloyd (Namco-Bandai)
10) Porky (Nintendo)
11) Professor Layton (Level-5)
12) Rayman (Ubisoft)
13) Ryu Hayabusa (Koei-Tecmo)
14) Shantae (WayFoward)
15) Spyro (Activision-Blizzard)
16) Crash Bandicoot (Activision-Blizzard)
17) Quote (Nicalis)
18) Yuri (Namco-Bandai)

So from this list, which ones do you want as the final 2? I don’t have too much faith in these leak but its possible to suggest that during these past years Nintendo talked with a lot of companies about putting their characters in smash (Bethesda confirms that) and they make a list of possible candidates from each company. They showed Sakurai the list and he chooses the candidates, then negotiations proceed.

I'll go with Rayman and a toss up between Doom or Crash

 

[Lyncario]

Reimu

A truckload of projectiles, mixed with flight and literal Ultra Instinct before Ultra Instinct was even conceptualized. There's your game-breaker.

While Reimu had ultra-instinct way before Ultra-instinct was a thing, both technique have the same inspiration, being Kenshiro's Musou Tensei. You know, the guy form Hokuto no Ken who makes people explode by touching them with his fingers? I propose we also give that to Reimu in Smash, with the twist of it working with her entire giant gohei who's size is accurate to how big it is in her Touhou 17 artwork.

 

[3BitSaurus]

A character with Bat Within, a mechanic given to a character who has slow normals as a deliberate weakness, but they have big disjoints that come out super fast and they can stance change out to become Ganon with a sword.


Half jokes aside, a character who can reliably selfheal is objectively *ing miserable. Like idk, Ragna constantly healing off of every hit he lands or someone who naturally heals 5% for every 10% they get or some *

You know, as much as me and SKX31 meme about MOBA stuns, there's 2 other mechanics from the genre that could be done right wrong: Silences and Lifesteal.

The latter is self-explanatory, but for the former, imagine being unable to use any specials for a few seconds if you get hit. That would be amazing to see with online lag~.

Considering how hitstun doesn't exist in Touhou, that may not be true

I know, it was a joke.

 

[SKX31]

In hindsight, it's funny how Digi here predicted 3 of these characters (2 of which in the same E3 2019).

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Monkey's Paw:

He gets Sora right too, but Sora turns out to be levels of broken with the ability to string together Touch of Death comboes without risking much himself, has a magical arsenal even more devastating than Hero's, and Genie as his Arsene that buffs both areas.

You know... the sadist in me has been looking at all the "[New DLC character] is BROKEN!!!" videos that have spawned for pretty much every challenger pack, and thinking...

...how can we **** this meta?

What are some choices for the last 2 that you can see drawing a lot of cries of "broken" to send Ultimate off with a bang and how would they do it?

This was also totally not inspired by me rewatching old videos of Bayo in Smash 4 and Kat in PSASBR, nope.

A Dota 2 character, where every stun is a Deku Nut on steroids.

Other than that, Chief (and Dame-probably-not-appearing-in-this-game KOS-MOS) would draw cries of "broken!!!" just because of the sheer amounts of weaponry and the ways they could be built to tack on damage from a distance.

Especially if the Energy Sword does ****tons of damage when Chief hits someone from behind with it.

Also, for Ultimate specifically, you'll want to look for example to:

* Characters that have amazing air mobility, whether natively or built into one of their moves. Air mobility is emphasized in Ultimate thanks to every character getting off the ground at the same time (3 frames or 1/20th of a second, it's that fast) and aerial attacks - usually - having a lot of utility to them. Characters like and benefit from their air mobility a lot.

* Some stupidly quick attack that can be thrown out on a whim and give tons of reward. 's Boost Kick was - before this patch - 4 frames start up (now it's 6 which is still quick). was not nerfed this patch, and his Up B remains at 3 frames. ZSS' Up B kills pretty damn early, while MGW literally cannot be trapped in shield because he can just call his firemen for the escape.

* The ability to not just combo, but also carry people to the blastzone. and (yeah, really) can do this and return pretty safely thanks to how their attacks work and how much distance their recovery moves cover.

So, in other words, Sora.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

You know, as much as me and SKX31 meme about MOBA stuns, there's 2 other mechanics from the genre that could be done right wrong: Silences and Lifesteal.

The latter is self-explanatory, but for the former, imagine being unable to use any specials for a few seconds if you get hit. That would be amazing to see with online lag~.



I know, it was a joke.

Honestly the former doesn't sound awful if you make it a tricky move to land. The perfect character for this is obviously Adam Malkovich, and hey, he's a first party, so people can pretend he's only hated for being owned by Nintendo

 

[Michael the Spikester]

(because Ganon and Ganondorf are the same character)

I mean so is and

 

[BlondeLombax]

I mean so is and

Frankly, they don’t have to be the same incarnations, either. You could make ALttP Ganon playable while OoT Ganondorf remains. Not all that bad of a compromise.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Monkey's Paw:

He gets Sora right too, but Sora turns out to be levels of broken with the ability to string together Touch of Death comboes without risking much himself, has a magical arsenal even more devastating than Hero's, and Genie as his Arsene that buffs both areas.





A Dota 2 character, where every stun is a Deku Nut on steroids.

Other than that, Chief (and Dame-probably-not-appearing-in-this-game KOS-MOS) would draw cries of "broken!!!" just because of the sheer amounts of weaponry and the ways they could be built to tack on damage from a distance.

Especially if the Energy Sword does ****tons of damage when Chief hits someone from behind.

Also, for Ultimate specifically, you'll want to look for example to:

* Characters that have amazing air mobility, whether natively or built into one of their moves. Air mobility is emphasized in Ultimate thanks to every character getting off the ground at the same time (3 frames or 1/20th of a second, it's that fast) and aerial attacks - usually - having a lot of utility to them. Characters like and benefit from their air mobility a lot.

* Some stupidly quick attack that can be thrown out on a whim and give tons of reward. 's Boost Kick was - before this patch - 4 frames start up (now it's 6 which is still quick). was not nerfed this patch, and his Up B remains at 3 frames. ZSS' Up B kills pretty damn early, while MGW literally cannot be trapped in shield because he can just call his firemen for the escape.

* The ability to not just combo, but also carry people to the blastzone. and (yeah, really) can do this and return pretty safely thanks to how their attacks work and how much distance their recovery moves cover.

So, in other words, Sora.

Sora, but he has every single ability and mechanic he ever used in the KH canon and cutscenes - from all spells, to all summons and even the ******* park rides - without any regard for cohesion, balancing and/or player sanity.

Have fun.

Also, regarding the videos that inspired me to make that OP... am I the only one who thinks that Bayo and Kat broke their games in surprisingly similar ways?

As in, both were really agile characters (at the time) with crazy aerial action and touch-of death combos, doing way more damage and knockback than they should.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Frankly, they don’t have to be the same incarnations, either. You could make ALttP Ganon playable while OoT Ganondorf remains. Not all that bad of a compromise.

Yep exactly. Use the classic blue Ganon. The one with the trident.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I mean so is and

Precendence doesn't mean it's good. Why not bring back tripping? It was in a prior game and the mechanic still exists because of certain moves after all!

Sora, but he has every single ability and mechsnic he ever used in the KH canon and cutscenes - from all spells, to all summons and even the ******* park rides - without any regard for cohesion, balancing and/or player sanity.

Have fun.

Also, regarding the videos that inspired me to make that OP... am I the only one who thinks that Bayo and Kat broke their games in surprisingly similar ways?

As in, both were really agile characters (at the time) with crazy aerial action and touch-of death combos, doing way more damage and knockback than they should.

Sora gets all the ridiculous **** and people who didn't play past 2 wonder why the hell his most powerful move isn't cutting the stage in half but rather summoning balloons

 

[SpectreJordan]

I want to see the original tweet for better context. Namely, what he predicted and why.

...Cause as of now, these sound like either one incorrect guess(if he only said Erdrick) or semi-easy guesses(Steve being one of the easiest guesses to get).

I’m pretty sure the poster was being overly cocky about Erdrick (due to the leak) & was implying the other 3 have no chance.

 

[Pillow]

You know... the sadist in me has been looking at all the "[New DLC character] is BROKEN!!!" videos that have spawned for pretty much every challenger pack, and thinking...

...how can we **** this meta?

What are some choices for the last 2 that you can see drawing a lot of cries of "broken" to send Ultimate off with a bang and how would they do it?

This was also totally not inspired by me rewatching old videos of Bayo in Smash 4 and Kat in PSASBR, nope.

I've never played Fortnite, but I imagine a builder character with strong projectile game and decent speed would be pretty obnoxious.

Considering how hitstun doesn't exist in Touhou, that may not be true
It's such a pitiful amount that takes up a lot of time to actually set up so it's barely noticable, especially as Deep Breathing's timing takes longer if used in succession, not to mention that if you get Deep Breathing off, you get to go ham so why bother sitting back and heal 2% when you could be giving 40% in a short combo

I mean, yeah it's not really a valid tactic. Still if she really wanted to she could just run away and try to heal herself!

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

Okay, i just got this idea.

What if, we DO get an Indie. Gunvolt. Discuss.

You know... the sadist in me has been looking at all the "[New DLC character] is BROKEN!!!" videos that have spawned for pretty much every challenger pack, and thinking...

...how can we **** this meta?

What are some choices for the last 2 that you can see drawing a lot of cries of "broken" to send Ultimate off with a bang and how would they do it?

Gunvolt.

If he shoots ya, it's gonna hurt!..........because you will be tagged and will continously suffer electrical damage from his Flashfield, until he rans out of EP or moves too far.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I've never played Fortnite, but I imagine a builder character with strong projectile game and decent speed would be pretty obnoxious.


I mean, yeah it's not really a valid tactic. Still if she really wanted to she could just run away and try to heal herself!

If she tried that then even Incineroar would be up in her face before she could heal 10%. It's deliberately made to be minimal so that players can't abuse it

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Okay, i just got this idea.

What if, we DO get an Indie. Gunvolt. Discuss.

Gunvolt.

If he shoots ya, it's gonna hurt!..........because you will be tagged and will continously suffer electrical damage from his Flashfield, until he rans out of EP or moves too far.

YES

A MAN OF CULTURE, YOU ARE.

and that music? I neeeeeeeed iiiiiiiitttttttt

 

[chocolatejr9]

Okay, i just got this idea.

What if, we DO get an Indie. Gunvolt. Discuss.

Gunvolt.

If he shoots ya, it's gonna hurt!..........because you will be tagged and will continously suffer electrical damage from his Flashfield, until he rans out of EP or moves too far.

I mean, he DOES have a new game coming...

 

[SpectreJordan]

I think Dante could have meta breaking potential. He was top tier in MvC3 & top 2 (I think) in MvCI.

But realistically, we’re not getting another Smash 4 Cloud or Bayo. Sakurai’s gotten really good at balance.

 

[Shroob]

Feels like these next couple months are the calm before the storm, tbh.

Right now, we exist in a world where there's 2 characters left.


But come June, and potentially only 1 of the two being shown off? Blood will be shed over who gets the last spot.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I’m pretty sure the poster was being overly cocky about Erdrick (due to the leak) & was implying the other 3 have no chance.

Seems like the context is even not clear with the tweet posted.

No matter. Unimpressive guessing, etc.

(Incidentally I got my avatar up~)

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I think Dante could have meta breaking potential. He was top tier in MvC3 & top 2 (I think) in MvCI.

But realistically, we’re not getting another Smash 4 Cloud or Bayo. Sakurai’s gotten really good at balance.

I remember Dante being good in 3 but top tier? That sounds a bit much, especially after they nerfed his damage output

 

[PSIGuy]

When does Sakurai's next Famitsu column come out?