Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[BlondeLombax]

Welp, I’ve read what I need to read.

Time to go down a whole pot of coffee.

 

[Cosmic77]

We got Pythra despite the Splatoon costumes coming with Min Min.

I think it's safe to say Nintendo costumes are a bit different. I highly doubt many people legitimately thought they'd purposely limit the number of Nintendo characters in this pass to one.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Hope yall dont forget the simple reason why the miis were all capcom is because thry were promoting games and arent gonna reach for some other explanation

 

[TheCJBrine]

I'm surprised Figure Theory is being taken seriously tbh. I thought we were all joking? Maybe a few weren't, idk.

 

[Idon]

I sincerely hope "figure theory" dies by the end of today because it's dumb and pointless. Also people are quick to jump on Crash, Lloyd, and Hayabusa train, but I still wouldn't count out a Pokemon.

I gotchu homie

 

[Dinoman96]

We got Pythra despite the Splatoon costumes coming with Min Min.

And? If anything that just deconfirms a new Splatoon character.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

They would probably only be informed of the Crash on the Run stuff needed for their job, not the Five Year Plan, especially if Smash is actually acknowledged on it, which I doubt considering the account acknowledged the Plan.

This implies that the intern would be told about everything involving the 5 year plan when in reality they'd only be told what's relevant to the mobile game on it.


Anyway you know who else has a figure?

Too big was just a fan rule, give me the lankiest giant superhero I've seen

 

[Schnee117]

I sincerely hope "figure theory" dies by the end of today because it's dumb and pointless. Also people are quick to jump on Crash, Lloyd, and Hayabusa train, but I still wouldn't count out a Pokemon.

I feel like most of us were/are shooting the **** with it.

 

[Sysreq]

I gotchu homie

View attachment 305871

Bold of you to assume I don't already own that and this, too.

 

[drag0nscythe]

There is nothing figure theory can actually add to speculation. people need to let that one go.

 

[Eldrake]

Out of curiosity, I decided to look up which mii costumes were released at what days for Smash 4 DLC.
There was actually Capcom Mii costumes released before Ryu was confirmed. Specifically the X and Proto Man mii costumes. It's not impossible that Capcom might not necessarily be as dead as we think.

 

[JOJONumber691]

This implies that the intern would be told about everything involving the 5 year plan when in reality they'd only be told what's relevant to the mobile game on it.


Anyway you know who else has a figure?

View attachment 305872

Too big was just a fan rule, give me the lankiest giant superhero I've seen

And if Smash was actually on it, they would've probably been told to not acknowledge it whatsoever due to NDA.

 

[Speed Weed]

Honestly I always found Monster Hunter to be the least interesting possible Capcom rep IMO (and the only one anywhere close to uninteresting), so it kinda sucks that when it comes to Capcom, I was basically in a lose-lose scenario with the likeliest one being my least favorite but also if they died now, everyone else was out too. And the latter sure did happen

 

[Otoad64]

And if Smash was actually on it, they would've probably been told to not acknowledge it whatsoever due to NDA.

or they wouldn't even know it was on it

 

[Cutie Gwen]

And if Smash was actually on it, they would've probably been told to not acknowledge it whatsoever due to NDA.

Or, y'know, the intern wouldn't have full information to all the details on the 5 year plan and only know about the part that's relevant to their job.

 

[Cosmic77]

Well, the only prediction I'm buckling down on is one of the last two characters being a first-party.

I also think that we're probably more likely to get a third-party from an unrepped company at this point. After today, they've distributed costumes from most of existing third-parties.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Maaaaaaaaaaaaan I'm conflicted on Arthur, it's really cool he got a costume at all, but I think his stronger armour from Super GnG would be better as it's a lot more visually distinct.

Yeah but...that's not his iconic outfit. That's be like if they made a Mario Mii, and you got Fire Mario instead of his iconic look.

 

[Speed Weed]

oh yeah

i think i know who sakurai has in his drawer

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Yeah but...that's not his iconic outfit. That's be like if they made a Mario Mii, and you got Fire Mario instead of his iconic look.

I know but I feel Arthur's Mii costume doesn't really go "Wow it's Arthur!" It's why I'm conflicted as it feels like GnG in name only but it's cool to get acknowledged

 

[Garteam]

If distribution of content among third parties really mattered then Namco would have far more than the pittance they have now.
Unfortunately that's not the case.

Hot take: Namco's total representation in Smash is approximately equal to that of other companies, despite the fact they only have one playable character.

Sega (Sonic, Bayonetta, Persona, and Virtua Fighter) and Konami (Metal Gear, Bomberman, Castlevania, and Goemon) both have 4 series with unique content in Smash. Capcom has 5 series (Mega Man, Street Fighter, Monster Hunter, Resident Evil, and Ghost n' Goblins). Square has either 4 (Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Octopath Traveler, and Bravely Default) or 5 depending on whether or not you count Mario RPG. Microsoft only has 3 (Banjo-Kazooie, Fallout, and Minecraft). SNK has the most thus far with 6 (Fatal Fury, King of Fighters, Samurai Showdown, Psycho Soldier, Ikari Warriors, and Metal Slug), but this tempered by the fact that they only have one character.

Counting Pac-Man's Namco Roulette, they have 21 unique franchises in Smash. Even if we don't count franchises that appear solely in the roulette like Katamari Damacy, they still have Pac-Man, Mappy (Pac-Man's Up Special and a remix on Pac-Land), Rally-X (the Special Flag item), Galaga, Dragon Spirit (remixes on Pac-Land), Libble Rabble, Metro-Cross, Sky Kid (unique medleys on Pac-Land), Tekken, and Tower of Drauga (DLC Mii Costumes) for a total of 10 franchises. This is also not counting series that appear exclusively in the Namco Arcade Retro Medley 1 or 2.

Namco's current representation is a lot like SNK, robust at the cost of being concentrated in more minor forms like music, spirits, and general cameos. Whether this is worth more than having far fewer franchises but more playable characters and stages is up to individual discretion, but it shows that Namco is not nearly down and out as they may first appear.

 

[Perkilator]

I'd say it'd be hilarious if Arthur showed up in Vol. 2 anyways and that he would've had to beat Astaroth twice to get into Smash, but I know Smash doesn't play by those rules.

 

[Sysreq]

oh yeah

i think i know who sakurai has in his drawer
View attachment 305882

HERE I AM, DOIN' EVERYTHING I CAN

 

[SKX31]

Miis right now be like:

Monster Hunter Sans.

Coming soon to your Deltarune.

Y'know, I don't think people are actually buying heavily into Figure Theory. Just a little joke. Big games just get merchandise; There's nothing we can really determine from it.

...It is just a joke, right?

I'm pretty sure that a good chunk of people here are getting carried away by the thought. The mere possibility of one's most wanted having a shot due to having a figurine is tempting, after all. Something like this:

 

[rychu_supadude]

The only time correlation between the company represented in the pass and series outside the character being added actually meant anything (aside from Geno) was in the very first wave. It's still very plausible for a Capcom character to be added alongside costumes from other companies. Like, CP11 is Phoenix and the corresponding wave is:

• Miles Edgeworth
• Raiden (Metal Gear)
• Arle Nadja
• Hollow Knight
• Bandana Dee Hat

With the current wave specifically called out as promoting recent releases, I really don't see how Capcom is so much less likely than any other company. It's just a fact that there's only two spots left and competition for them feels super fierce. It's only going to feel obvious with hindsight, as always.

 

[kylexv]

What has been unique about FP2 is that with every character reveal we have had pretty much no idea what to expect. None of the four characters we have gotten would have been safe guesses back in February of 2020

• For Min Min, common sentiment was that ARMS lost its chance to have a playable fighter. Not only that, why would they add Min Min over Spring Man, seeing as he's the protagonist
• For Steve, with Banjo being confirmed for FP1, few expected to get another Microsoft character in the second pass
• For Sephiroth, many thought we would get Geno or Sora instead or simply thought another Final Fantasy character wouldn't happen
• For Pyra/Mythra, Rex had been deconfirmed as a Mii Costume in FP1, so why would they go back to Xenoblade 2 and add a character from there? Plus, why add Pyra and Mythra over Rex, seeing as he's the protagonist of the game.

With FP1, we knew pretty much right away that the majority of the pass would be third party, but, for this pass, nothing has seemed predictable, and every character reveal has been a surprise to some extent.

 

[CardStealer1]

Well, I’m kind of shocked that Sakurai buying figures as reference is this great revelation, but it gives me an excuse to bring up this article again.

https://nintendoeverything.com/masahiro-sakurai-bought-a-vifam-figure-as-a-reference-for-his-work/

I can’t remember if we ever got a resolution to what this figure was for, but the timing definitely lines up with Smash. I was always hopeful it was evidence for Ray MK, but that obviously wasn’t the case. If it’s true that Steve and maybe Sephiroth have been in the talks for years, then maybe whatever this figure was for is yet to be revealed? Just a thought.

 

[7NATOR]

So I didn't get to catch the Air time, but I'm not trying to look at other posts because unsure if anything happen that's very Exciting, So does anyone happen to have a link to the Presentation, cause I know if I go on Youtube, I'm gonna have reaction videos in my timeline

 

[3BitSaurus]

Yeah, but those styles are also similar enough to the Fighters original art styles.

Not really. Sakurai said so himself, in fact.

At 1:05:13 in the Presentation video: "These figures aren't always 100% faithful to the original game. However, they can provide helpful hints."

And looking at the sheer variety of them, well... I doubt the style matters too much.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

For Pyra/Mythra, Rex had been deconfirmed as a Mii Costume in FP1, so why would they go back to Xenoblade 2 and add a character from there? Plus, why add Pyra and Mythra over Rex, seeing as he's the protagonist of the game.

Bruh XB2 being out wasn't universally accepted, it was literally the popular opinion that the second pass meant Rex had a second chance and as it turned out that was completely true. I didn't have to see people insist Rex was the likliest character for the second pass every day for this to be called a left field pick

 

[Louie G.]

Namco's current representation is a lot like SNK, robust at the cost of being concentrated in more minor forms like music, spirits, and general cameos. Whether this is worth more than having far fewer franchises but more playable characters and stages is up to individual discretion, but it shows that Namco is not nearly down and out as they may first appear.

I generally agree with this sentiment, as I've always seen Pac-Man as more of a "Namco arcade rep" than a "Pac-Man rep", but coming at it from this perspective it's kind of a shame that we don't have more music and spirits, at least. I think robust is a bit of an overstatement, especially considering how Namco is literally working on the game the amount of even non-playable Namco content feels especially skim all things considered. SNK feels a lot more full and that's even without the additional items and AT (the stage probably helps, while Pac-Land doesn't really accomplish that same goal).

 

[Dinoman96]

What has been unique about FP2 is that with every character reveal we have had pretty much no idea what to expect. None of the four characters we have gotten would have been safe guesses back in February of 2020

• For Min Min, common sentiment was that ARMS lost its chance to have a playable fighter. Not only that, why would they add Min Min over Spring Man, seeing as he's the protagonist
• For Steve, with Banjo being confirmed for FP1, few expected to get another Microsoft character in the second pass
• For Sephiroth, many thought we would get Geno or Sora instead or simply thought another Final Fantasy character wouldn't happen
• For Pyra/Mythra, Rex had been deconfirmed as a Mii Costume in FP1, so why would they go back to Xenoblade 2 and add a character from there? Plus, why add Pyra and Mythra over Rex, seeing as he's the protagonist of the game.

With FP1, we knew pretty much right away that the majority of the pass would be third party, but, for this pass, nothing has seemed predictable, and every character reveal has been a surprise to some extent.

To be fair, a lot of people actually were expecting/predicting a XB2 character after the ARMS character teaser last year.

Though most people thought it'd be Rex, which it probably would have been anyways if it wasn't for technical limitations.

 

[Technomage]

Hot take: Namco's total representation in Smash is approximately equal to that of other companies, despite the fact they only have one playable character.

Sega (Sonic, Bayonetta, Persona, and Virtua Fighter) and Konami (Metal Gear, Bomberman, Castlevania, and Goemon) both have 4 series with unique content in Smash. Capcom has 5 series (Mega Man, Street Fighter, Monster Hunter, Resident Evil, and Ghost n' Goblins). Square has either 4 (Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Octopath Traveler, and Bravely Default) or 5 depending on whether or not you count Mario RPG. Microsoft only has 3 (Banjo-Kazooie, Fallout, and Minecraft). SNK has the most thus far with 6 (Fatal Fury, King of Fighters, Samurai Showdown, Psycho Soldier, Ikari Warriors, and Metal Slug), but this tempered by the fact that they only have one character.

Counting Pac-Man's Namco Roulette, they have 21 unique franchises in Smash. Even if we don't count franchises that appear solely in the roulette like Katamari Damacy, they still have Pac-Man, Mappy (Pac-Man's Up Special and a remix on Pac-Land), Rally-X (the Special Flag item), Galaga, Dragon Spirit (remixes on Pac-Land), Libble Rabble, Metro-Cross, Sky Kid (unique medleys on Pac-Land), Tekken, and Tower of Drauga (DLC Mii Costumes) for a total of 10 franchises. This is also not counting series that appear exclusively in the Namco Arcade Retro Medley 1 or 2.

Namco's current representation is a lot like SNK, robust at the cost of being concentrated in more minor forms like music, spirits, and general cameos. Whether this is worth more than having far fewer franchises but more playable characters and stages is up to individual discretion, but it shows that Namco is not nearly down and out as they may first appear.

Wait, I thought Fallout was currently owned by Bethesda?

Also, to add to your point on Namco, Smash 4's Final Destination was also based somewhat on Soulcalibur.

 

[DittoInDisguise]

What has been unique about FP2 is that with every character reveal we have had pretty much no idea what to expect. None of the four characters we have gotten would have been safe guesses back in February of 2020

• For Min Min, common sentiment was that ARMS lost its chance to have a playable fighter. Not only that, why would they add Min Min over Spring Man, seeing as he's the protagonist
• For Steve, with Banjo being confirmed for FP1, few expected to get another Microsoft character in the second pass
• For Sephiroth, many thought we would get Geno or Sora instead or simply thought another Final Fantasy character wouldn't happen
• For Pyra/Mythra, Rex had been deconfirmed as a Mii Costume in FP1, so why would they go back to Xenoblade 2 and add a character from there? Plus, why add Pyra and Mythra over Rex, seeing as he's the protagonist of the game.

With FP1, we knew pretty much right away that the majority of the pass would be third party, but, for this pass, nothing has seemed predictable, and every character reveal has been a surprise to some extent.

This is why the last character is Waluigi promoted from an AT.

 

[Dinoman96]

Wait, I thought Fallout was currently owned by Bethesda?

Yes.

And they're about to be fully bought out by Microsoft.

 

[Heoj]

I feel like people are tripping, im still pretty confident in a capcom rep showing up

 

[Guynamednelson]

Wait, I thought Fallout was currently owned by Bethesda

Bethesda was bought by Microsoft. Something that didn't happen when Vault Boy from Vault Boy was first announced, but still.

 

[SneakyLink]

Wait, I thought Fallout was currently owned by Bethesda?

Also, to add to your point on Namco, Smash 4's Final Destination was also based somewhat on Soulcalibur.

I’m not sure on the Smash 4 Final Destination thing but Microsoft is buying Bethesda, retroactively making Fallout a Microsoft series.

The deal hasn’t happened yet so for now they’re a Bethesda costume through and through.

Edit:

 

[True Blue Warrior]

And? If anything that just deconfirms a new Splatoon character.

Just like the way MH and Arthur costumes only disconfirm MH and GnG for playable DLC which was my whole point.

 

[Ornl]

Square has either 4 (Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Octopath Traveler, and Bravely Default)

+ Mana at Square

 

[Schnee117]

Hot take: Namco's total representation in Smash is approximately equal to that of other companies, despite the fact they only have one playable character.

Sega (Sonic, Bayonetta, Persona, and Virtua Fighter) and Konami (Metal Gear, Bomberman, Castlevania, and Goemon) both have 4 series with unique content in Smash. Capcom has 5 series (Mega Man, Street Fighter, Monster Hunter, Resident Evil, and Ghost n' Goblins). Square has either 4 (Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Octopath Traveler, and Bravely Default) or 5 depending on whether or not you count Mario RPG. Microsoft only has 3 (Banjo-Kazooie, Fallout, and Minecraft). SNK has the most thus far with 6 (Fatal Fury, King of Fighters, Samurai Showdown, Psycho Soldier, Ikari Warriors, and Metal Slug), but this tempered by the fact that they only have one character.

Counting Pac-Man's Namco Roulette, they have 21 unique franchises in Smash. Even if we don't count franchises that appear solely in the roulette like Katamari Damacy, they still have Pac-Man, Mappy (Pac-Man's Up Special and a remix on Pac-Land), Rally-X (the Special Flag item), Galaga, Dragon Spirit (remixes on Pac-Land), Libble Rabble, Metro-Cross, Sky Kid (unique medleys on Pac-Land), Tekken, and Tower of Drauga (DLC Mii Costumes) for a total of 10 franchises. This is also not counting series that appear exclusively in the Namco Arcade Retro Medley 1 or 2.

Namco's current representation is a lot like SNK, robust at the cost of being concentrated in more minor forms like music, spirits, and general cameos. Whether this is worth more than having far fewer franchises but more playable characters and stages is up to individual discretion, but it shows that Namco is not nearly down and out as they may first appear.

Likening it down to how many series are in is pretty disingenuous when we look at what the actual content is and how much there is.

Sega and Konami have four franchises sure.
But Sega boast three unique playable fighters, four stages, three separate track lists that do double digits, several mii costumes, a significant number of spirits and multiple assist trophies. They've been in since Brawl.
Konami boast two unique fighters and an echo, two stages, two separate track lists of which Castlevania has a ton, several mii costumes, plenty of spirits again, a boss fight, a WoL area and multiple assist trophies, there's also Death's Scythe. They're returning from Brawl after skipping 4 entirely.
Capcom boast two unique fighters and an echo, two stages, two sizable track lists, plenty of mii costumes, a boss fight, two WoL areas, plenty of spirits and several assist trophies. They've been here since Smash 4.
Square have three unique fighters, three stages, a small track list and one that's now decently sized, plenty of mii costumes and some spirits.
Microsoft boast two unique fighters, two stages, two small track lists, a few mii outfits and some spirits. They're relatively new, being added this game.
SNK has the one fighter, one stage, a huge track list, some miis and spirits. They're also relatively new.

Namco have one fighter, one stage, a decentish number of tracks, one assist and very few spirits and are returning from Smash 4. They do have two items as well

In terms of franchises they're doing well, yes. But the actual content itself is pretty dire and is what holds it back from being comparable to other companies.