Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Ivander]

There's no reason for us to get another FE rep anyway.

Avatar character? Check. From a title that has earned Nintendo a lot of money? Check. From a Fire Emblem title that has no original Spirits and only 1 music track? Check. Has a gun and can have a cinematic Final Smash that involves summoning a whole ton of characters?! Beware! Fear it! Fire Emblem arrives all the same.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Though, again, “boring” requires a definition.

Lacking appeal in a way that either fails to set one character apart from others, or simply fails to draw attention. As expected, a "boring" character is entirely subjective, and usually based on prior experiences and/or preferences.

Examples:

• "Lloyd is boring because his character archetype has been done to death and I'm either super tired of it or Lloyd's specific nuances didn't really grab me."
• "Steve is boring because I prefer characters built with a personality and/or story in mind rather than self-inserts."
• "Sol is boring because I can compare him to Terry due to his similar looking Special Moves, and I'd prefer having characters that are so different that this isn't possible."

...Because people talk like that. Yup.

Counterexamples for the sake of neutrality:

• "Lloyd is interesting because I've grown attached to him or Tales of Symphonia itself."
• "Steve is interesting because Minecraft is, or because I've connected with him through the game world; he represents the fun times I've had with the game."
• "Sol is interesting because BANDIT BRINGER!!!" Translation: They freaking love playing as him in Guilty Gear.

 

[CannonStreak]

IMO a new character from Capcom is an extremely safe guess in general, but it's of course a matter of perspective who that could end up being.

As N3ON just said it's kind of a fool's errand to "expect" anyone outright, but I think Monster Hunter has quite a lot going for it. Two new Switch releases on the horizon, a tremendously popular series not unlike Dragon Quest in Japan which has seen worldwide relevance upon the release of MH World (Capcom's best selling game EVER), Min Min and Sephiroth showing how series with minimal content can be expanded on and Steve implying that some of these characters have been in talks for years... seeing how Monster Hunter has unused spirits in-game and music lumped with the playable characters...

I mean, Capcom has a lot of great choices so it may not be them. But there are tons of reasons to believe it would be.

Like I said, I was just asking.

In that case, I've seen more people agree that we'll get at least one more first party character than people who don't think that. Though then the problem becomes who will that first party be...

A new Fire Emblem character, maybe?

 

[chocolatejr9]

Like I said, I was just asking.



A new Fire Emblem character, maybe?

You joke, but I wouldn't be surprised if the next FE title got announced relatively soon...

 

[SharkLord]

Monster Hunter has consistently been a big demand for at least 5 years now. I don't know how people still view them as dark horses. The more a character's called a dark horse the more I believe they're not one at that point.

The Hunters used to be darkhorses. Key words used to. Rise was the alarm clock, and they went from sleeper hit to frontrunner in record time.

 

[Louie G.]

The Hunters used to be darkhorses. Key words used to. Rise was the alarm clock, and they went from sleeper hit to frontrunner in record time.

This kind of frustrates me too, lmao. Because I remember when MH saw a surge after Rise and people were all like A NEW GAME DOESN'T AUTOMATICALLY MEAN A NEW CHARACTER as if that was the only thing in Monster Hunter's favor.

Meanwhile I had been saying months prior that Monster Hunter shouldn't be counted out, and the moment we got confirmation of an ARMS character I was asking "do you think this bodes well for Monster Hunter?" because of the expansion on a series already in Smash represented through nonplayable content.

Seeing Monster Hunter get its own showcase Direct seems to have rightfully woke people up, though. Still took a long time to transcend the whole baseless rumor BS about the MH devs' mentality toward crossovers but I think MH has solidified itself as a true contender now.

 

[Speed Weed]

Something I never really vibed with all that much about the "are we about to get a drop in how big these characters are?" discussion is people basically acting like there's zero middle ground between super hype earth-shattering icons and cynical worst-case scenario picks. It's not like this pass potentially going more lowkey wouldn't instead likely imply more niche characters but ones that are still cool choices that would make quite some people happy. Dunno man, it's just that I see stuff like "do you reallly think we'd go so low suddenly" or "we've hit the peak, expect the worst from now on", and it's like

Y'all

Things ain't that black-and-white

 

[CannonStreak]

Something I never really vibed with all that much about the "are we about to get a drop in how big these characters are?" discussion is people basically acting like there's zero middle ground between super hype earth-shattering icons and cynical worst-case scenario picks. It's not like this pass potentially going more lowkey wouldn't instead likely imply more niche characters but ones that are still cool choices that would make quite some people happy. Dunno man, it's just that I see stuff like "do you reallly think we'd go so low suddenly" or "we've hit the peak, expect the worst from now on", and it's like

Y'all

Things ain't that black-and-white

Yeah, that is why I would not expect characters. I mean, things are not that simple even.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Things ain't that black-and-white

Of course they aren't. This is the second pass. They're black2-and-white2.

 

[N3ON]

I feel like the call for a Hunter began picking up steam only after Rathalos showed up (not that it wasn't there before, it just wasn't anything remarkable). Then it continued to climb until it just... disappeared. And around that time people were more seriously considering a RE character, and then Dante was there, but MH's evaporation within discussion was still kind of weird.

Then Rise showed up and got people acting like MH hasn't always been a huge series and only just now does it make sense for them to be included again. But now we've also got Chun-Li, who is still going to be able to ride the post-Sephiroth glow for a little while longer until she settles into a steady but definitely not as prominent recess in terms of expectation.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Something I never really vibed with all that much about the "are we about to get a drop in how big these characters are?" discussion is people basically acting like there's zero middle ground between super hype earth-shattering icons and cynical worst-case scenario picks. It's not like this pass potentially going more lowkey wouldn't instead likely imply more niche characters but ones that are still cool choices that would make quite some people happy. Dunno man, it's just that I see stuff like "do you reallly think we'd go so low suddenly" or "we've hit the peak, expect the worst from now on", and it's like

Y'all

Things ain't that black-and-white

I mean in terms of reception, it’s practically impossible for the last character to be just as controversial as was considering he had so many reasons why he got the mixed reception he did, so things won’t be quiet so bad for the last character. That character will still catch some heat though.

 

[CannonStreak]

I feel like the call for a Hunter began picking up steam only after Rathalos showed up (not that it wasn't there before, it just wasn't anything remarkable). Then it continued to climb until it just... disappeared. And around that time people were more seriously considering a RE character, and then Dante was there, but MH's evaporation within discussion was still kind of weird.

Then Rise showed up and got people acting like MH hasn't always been a huge series and only just now does it make sense for them to be included again. But now we've also got Chun-Li, who is still going to be able to ride the post-Sephiroth glow for a little while longer until she settles into a steady but definitely not as prominent recess in terms of expectation.

I can see the pattern you are getting at. With that said, things seem to change too easily as in who people expect to get into Smash. I'd say just because Rathalos is a boss and Rise came out does not mean a Monster Hunter character will get in.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Of course they aren't. This is the second pass. They're black2-and-white2.

sigh

ba-dum-tsh

 

[CannonStreak]

Of course they aren't. This is the second pass. They're black2-and-white2.

I wonder if I should post the Black and White song by Michael Jackson here?

Still, in regards to Pokemon, it is possible if a character from there could get in Smash Bros. Ultimate, but I am not sure how likely it is.

 

[N3ON]

I can see the pattern you are getting at. With that said, things seem to change too easily as in who people expect to get into Smash. I'd say just because Rathalos is a boss and Rise came out does not mean a Monster Hunter character will get in.

If MH gets a character it'll just be because the series is large and popular, which has been true the entire tenure of Ultimate's existence.

But people always feel more assured when they can tie an inclusion to some recent game. Especially when that game is on a Nintendo system, and especially especially when Nintendo is somehow involved in it. And hey, it is possible Nintendo/Capcom will want to capitalize off the Rise connection... but it won't be why the character was added. It's like Hero, who, in some form, was presumably going to get in with or without DQ11.

But, for example, I've now seen people theorize more over Crash because the game is coming to Switch soon... and that's just missing the plot. If Crash gets in... it'll be because it's Crash Bandicoot.

 

[CannonStreak]

If MH gets a character it'll just be because the series is large and popular, which has been true the entire tenure of Ultimate's existence.

But people always feel more assured when they can tie an inclusion to some recent game. Especially when that game is on a Nintendo system, and especially especially when Nintendo is somehow involved in it. And hey, it is possible Nintendo/Capcom will want to capitalize off the Rise connection... but it won't be why the character was added. It's like Hero, who, in some form, was presumably going to get in with or without DQ11.

But, for example, I've now seen people theorize more over Crash because the game is coming to Switch soon... and that's just missing the plot. If Crash gets in... it'll be because it's Crash Bandicoot.

It happens all the time. Come to think of it, I don't think Crash will get in just because his latest game is on the Switch. Really, new games aren't that strong as indicators or anything when it comes to determining a character's chance in getting into Smash now, aren't they?

 

[chocolatejr9]

If MH gets a character it'll just be because the series is large and popular, which has been true the entire tenure of Ultimate's existence.

But people always feel more assured when they can tie an inclusion to some recent game. Especially when that game is on a Nintendo system, and especially especially when Nintendo is somehow involved in it. And hey, it is possible Nintendo/Capcom will want to capitalize off the Rise connection... but it won't be why the character was added. It's like Hero, who, in some form, was presumably going to get in with or without DQ11.

But, for example, I've now seen people theorize more over Crash because the game is coming to Switch soon... and that's just missing the plot. If Crash gets in... it'll be because it's Crash Bandicoot.

And that's without taking into account the possibility of the MH Mii Costumes returning. For some, it's a matter of when, not if...

 

[True Blue Warrior]

If MH gets a character it'll just be because the series is large and popular, which has been true the entire tenure of Ultimate's existence.

But people always feel more assured when they can tie an inclusion to some recent game. Especially when that game is on a Nintendo system, and especially especially when Nintendo is somehow involved in it. And hey, it is possible Nintendo/Capcom will want to capitalize off the Rise connection... but it won't be why the character was added. It's like Hero, who, in some form, was presumably going to get in with or without DQ11.

But, for example, I've now seen people theorize more over Crash because the game is coming to Switch soon... and that's just missing the plot. If Crash gets in... it'll be because it's Crash Bandicoot.

There is also the fact we only got one character for Ultimate DLC that had anything to do with promiting an upcoming game as Byleth was selected before his game was even released. Promotional aspects won’t matter in terms of Crash’s prospects.

 

[CannonStreak]

And that's without taking into account the possibility of the MH Mii Costumes returning. For some, it's a matter of when, not if...

Yeah, I can see the costumes more likely to happen rather than an actual character from Monster Hunter making the cut.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

And that's without taking into account the possibility of the MH Mii Costumes returning. For some, it's a matter of when, not if...

That is a good point.

 

[Goombaic]

I've seen the Monster Hunter discussed and called a "sleeper pick" or "highly likely candidate" for years. That's just me, sorry for not being able to understand how Rise has apparently boosted discussion around the character. It's simply been this way on my mind, I never thought the Hunter wasn't on a majority of people's minds till Rise. I guess my definition of dark horse is far narrower.

 

[N3ON]

It happens all the time. Come to think of it, I don't think Crash will get in just because his latest game is on the Switch. Really, new games aren't that strong as indicators or anything when it comes to determining a character's chance in getting into Smash now, aren't they?

No, it's definitely overblown how crucial having a new game is for third-parties.

And that's without taking into account the possibility of the MH Mii Costumes returning. For some, it's a matter of when, not if...

It's a matter of when as to getting MH content, because at the very least those costumes will return.

But if it's a matter of when and not if a MH character arrives, then people are getting ahead of themselves.

There is also the fact we only got one character for Ultimate DLC that had anything to do with promiting an upcoming game as Byleth was selected before his game was even released. Promotional aspects won’t matter in terms of Crash’s prospects.

Also worth noting that promotion doesn't seem to be a factor in selecting third-parties. At most it informs to which game the content therein might skew.

 

[CannonStreak]

I've seen the Monster Hunter discussed and called a "sleeper pick" or "highly likely candidate" for years. That's just me, sorry for not being able to understand how Rise has apparently boosted discussion around the character. It's simply been this way on my mind, I never thought the Hunter wasn't on a majority of people's minds till Rise. I guess my definition of dark horse is far narrower.

I don't think Rise means anything for a Monster Hunter character getting in. I just think people are jumping to conclusions.

 

[SharkLord]

Regardless of how hype a character is, I don't think Smash has an issue with bouncing around with varying hype levels. We've gone from the cultural phenomenon and earth-shattering request of Hero and Banjo, respectively, to the more niche Terry (Though that's debatable depending on where you live), and from the recent, lesser-known Min Min to the truly massive Steve. I don't think Smash is too worried about sudden hype drops.

That being said, I don't think we're necessarily in for the "worst." As Speed Weed pointed out, there isn't a definitive line going through the "hype" and "unhype" crowds. We could still get a decently popular character like, say, Lloyd, or someone who's more popular in one region than the other, like Arle. Of course, we might end up with an old legacy pick that makes you go "Wait what the %$#@" like Earthworm Jim.

Bottom line, the hype level of CP9 could be anywhere on the scale.

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

I didn't really get much more out of that other than Ubisoft is willing to work with Nintendo.

What does Ubisoft have to do with Crash Bandicoot?

If you still don't get it after reading Crash Bandicoot's section on "Part 2" Then I don't know what to tell you.

It pretty much sums up Crash Bandicoot's Super Smash Bros Profile as a candidate in a nutshell.

 

[CannonStreak]

I'd say that that new games, like for third party or first party characters, are not what will get such characters in Smash, nor are they strong hints. People just don't know that or don't know any other evidence that can disprove new games raising chances for characters.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

It was touched upon earlier but I think it’s worth noting JUST how out of touch the Smash fanbase once was, and to a lesser extent kinda still is.

In the Wii U days, back when I didn’t have as much creeping existential dread, Snake was considered out because he was, “too adult”. Ryu wasn’t considered at all because of a comment from Sakurai about fighting game characters, and Cloud was considered an impossibility...all because those characters, at the time, had certain appearances of software on other consoles. There also seemed to be a certain stigma of cartoony 3rd parties as “one of the good ones” (which has certain connotations but I’m not gonna go there right no). Then Ryu came in and if I remember correctly, people were legitimately upset about it.

Basically folks were set on the fact that, clearly, 3rd parties had to have strong relations to Nintendo, which to me seems to be a completely dead concept/construct.

Now we get a legendary pick like Sephiroth and people, instead of taking in the reveal for what it is, instead get excited because of an unhealthy obsession with fanrules (seriously, it lives rent free in some folks heads) or because it “helps” a character they personally want.

Now, there’s nothing inherently wrong with that. However, I do think it reveals a bit of the Smash fanbase mindset of things. There’s a bit of a misunderstanding of just how large certain characters/series are and the impact their addition has, and a “bubble” around those same perceptions.

Though, I want to make sure there’s a key point to this post. Basically, it’s better to be inclusive to ideas than to exclude them. But that doesn’t mean that just because it CAN happen that it WILL happen. Not everybody is necessarily guilty of that mindset, but I think certain folks do suggest things in that way.

I don’t have much of an investment anymore because frankly the last 3 picks will MOST LIKELY please me...given the amount of series/games I’ve played at this point.

Just be reasonable with expectations.

 

[Louie G.]

I don't think Rise means anything for a Monster Hunter character getting in. I just think people are jumping to conclusions.

Have you been ignoring what we've been saying? Monster Hunter is a massive series that doesn't even need a new Switch game to justify their inclusion.

If people didn't want to talk about them until Rise that's honestly their fault - not to sound condemning or anything LOL. But there was more than enough reason to discuss them before that.

 

[Dinoman96]

Mistranslated fighting game comment aside, I think the main thing going against Ryu at the time was the notion that a third party company couldn't have more than one playable character.

 

[CannonStreak]

Have you been ignoring what we've been saying? Monster Hunter is a massive series that doesn't even need a new Switch game to justify their inclusion.

If people didn't want to talk about them until Rise that's honestly their fault - not to sound condemning or anything LOL. But there was more than enough reason to discuss them before that.

I am quite aware of that to begin with. Still, there are popular series which have not had characters get into Smash yet, or into Smash games before. Sure, Monster Hunter is popular and successful, but that can only do much for any series' chances, right?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

There have been so many cases where a new game hasn’t led to a Smash character, that I think the concept of “new game = Smash character” can PROBABLY be tossed. Seems like the only one that actually turned out that way was Hero.

 

[Louie G.]

I am quite aware of that to begin with. Still, there are popular series which have not had characters get into Smash yet, or into Smash games before. Sure, Monster Hunter is popular and successful, but that can only do much for any series' chances, right?

Can't this also be said about Hayabusa and Crash? This conversation started because you asked other characters we felt were likely, nobody is saying Monster Hunter is guaranteed a spot.

Capcom is one of the most competitive third parties, I don't think anyone can say 100% that MH, Dante, Chun-Li or Phoenix will get in over one another. I know I certainly can't, nor do I see anyone trying to say that either. There's just a lot of reasons why it could happen.

 

[CannonStreak]

Can't this also be said about Hayabusa and Crash? This conversation started because you asked other characters we felt were likely, nobody is saying Monster Hunter is guaranteed a spot.

Capcom is one of the most competitive third parties, I don't think anyone can say 100% that MH, Dante, Chun-Li or Phoenix will get in over one another. I know I certainly can't, nor do I see anyone trying to say that either. There's just a lot of reasons why it could happen.

I only asked because I was curious. I was never ruling out any other series like Monster Hunter, and while I want Crash, I never said he was a guarantee. I just wanted to know something from you all. Yes, the same can be said for Crash and Ryu Hayabusa. I was not concerned about that or popularity, though.

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

Mistranslated fighting game comment aside, I think the main thing going against Ryu at the time was the notion that a third party company couldn't have more than one playable character.

This.

This also made Simon disscussion pretty much completely nonexistent, because every time it was brought up it would become YEAH BUT SOLID SNAKE.

 

[Inue Houji]

What does Ubisoft have to do with Crash Bandicoot?

If you still don't get it after reading Crash Bandicoot's section on "Part 2" Then I don't know what to tell you.

It pretty much sums up Crash Bandicoot's Super Smash Bros Profile as a candidate in a nutshell.

Oops, I meant Activision.
I'm not saying he's unlikely by the way. I just think pinning him as the most likely seems weird.

 

[Dinoman96]

This.

This also made Simon disscussion pretty much completely nonexistent, because every time it was brought up it would become YEAH BUT SOLID SNAKE.

It also doesn't help that Snake got removed in Smash 4 and it wouldn't really make much sense to go back up to Konami for a new character and yet not do anything about the popular veteran character they own that opened the door for third parties to begin with.

Had Snake stuck around in Smash 4's base game, Simon would of gotten much more traction after Ryu's announcement.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

To be fair I think it has to be understood just how much of a gamechanger the various reveals in Smash 4 (DLC included) really were, not even specifically in opening up fan's own ideas about possible Smash inclusions but revealing how open Nintendo and Sakurai actually were.

Yes there were always Smash fans that considered Nintendo or adjacent characters as the best fits, but there was very little overt evidence to suggest that was all that different from the truth. The friendly relationship between Sakurai & Kojima as well as one of (if not the) most famous video game rivalries got us Snake and Sonic and what could we get beyond that? A lot of the future was essentially in the fog to some degree until that Mega Man reveal at the 2013 E3, and slowly but sure the realistic expectations of the franchise have grown.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

New Geno Thread.

https://smashboards.com/threads/gen...s-geno-support-thread-2.512207/#post-24281737

 

[Perkilator]

HMK discusses the possibility of a Vol. 3.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

HMK discusses the possibility of a Vol. 3.

Wishful thinking.

I would bet on post-Pass 2 individual DLC being more likely and I don't see that happening. After this, I think that will be it.