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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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Louie G.

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I think Joker was really the one that open more suggestion. Joker was really special because he was neither a big mascot like Mega man, Snake or Pac-man, and he didn't have strong ties to Nintendo like Bayonetta. For me Joker was the moment that I realise that a lot of character could happen that I would have never consider before.
I think it can be broken down into three parts.

Joker - The characters don't need to have close ties to Nintendo, so we've opened up the discussion tenfold. Dante sees a rise in popularity, as does Doomguy, 2B, Dovahkiin... characters not immediately associated with Nintendo and often skewed a bit more "mature". It also puts the focus on more modern franchises and big recent releases. Reggie's statement of "characters you wouldn't usually expect" rang loud for people.

Hero - "Oh, well that makes sense." Big in Japan picks, big legacy picks... think Resident Evil, Monster Hunter, this is what got me thinking about Puyo Puyo also.

Terry - Okay, well now ANYTHING can happen. At least most people in the community knew Joker and knew what Dragon Quest was... enter Terry, who half of Smash players outright didn't know and was not perceived as the star of a particularly popular or relevant series. More conversations rise about slept-on legacy franchises like Ys, Guilty Gear or Puyo Puyo (again). After Terry I feel like we touched upon pretty much every possible viable candidate.
 
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SKX31

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Feb 22, 2019
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This post reminds me of something Joe Merrick, the guy behind Serebii, once said involving fake leaks. It's up to the rumours to prove that they're credible, not to skeptists to prove that they're fakes. I say this because I agree that supporters of a character can and should find ways to convince people their characters are worth talking about, it's why I'm usually happy when someone makes a lengthy post to explain to me why their characters would be fun, SKX31 usually managing to make me go "oh damn that DOES sound cool".
Hey, thanks for the shout out!

**** I haven't really managed to explain why a Civilization rep would be awesome to see (Nuclear Gandhi or not) - sometimes because those posts lacked a point and was poorly thought out. Lets take that extremely awkward segue and rectify that! This is going to be a long one.

Now, first thing first, I have no goddamn clue what to choose. Gandhi himself is probably ruled out as playable (possible NPC though) since a lot of Indians revere him as practically a saint (see reactions to Clone High Gandhi), a Smash appearance would risk contradicting the real Gandhi's efforts and his normal pacifist playstyle in Civilization, and Nintendo generally wants to avoid controversies whenever possible. I don't think Nuclear Gandhi caused a near-revolt in India because it started out as an unintentional bug. That and if that had happened... we would've already seen it. Nuclear Gandhi first became a thing during the Civ I days (early 1990s). It's gotten a bit controversial within the Civ fanbase (like the CivFanatics forum) partly because it's an old meme, and so the Civilization devs have begun adding alternate Indian leaders like the more straightforwardly militaristic Chandragupta Maurya (who conquered almost the entirety of India around 300 BC and fought Alexander the Great before abdicating the throne and became a monk in order to repent).

So it's difficult to say. Amongst the playable leaders Japan's leaders might be hypotheoretically attractive to Nintendo: Nobunaga is the representative leader in V, Hojo Tokimune in VI (the regent during the Mongol invasion and the famous kamikaze). Those two are not controversial but could perhaps be adapted into playable characters. A lot of mainstays are your usual suspects for history-based games: Napoleon for the French (coincidence of all coincidences, Nintendo and Intelligent Systems also produced a Napoleon game for the GBA), Elizabeth I / Victoria for the English, Genghis Khan for Mongolia etc.

And yes, Civilization relies a lot on national stereotypes. It has done so ever since III, which began to differentiate the different factions' playstyles. And if you gotta differentiate the different playable civs... well, you go with the obvious markers. Especially since Civ VI has 50 different playable civs / factions in total. For example, America usually gets late game bonuses: of course America's unique building in Civ VI is the Film Studio! And the Film Studio is, of course, very well suited if one's playing as America and going for a Cultural victory (gaining more visiting tourists from other civs than any other civ has domestic tourists). There are 6 different victory conditions (peaceful ones like Science, warmongering ones like Domination etc.), and the unique units, buildings, leader bonuses etc. are going to have a major impact usually on what to pursue. Then again, one can win any victory with anyone.

The difficulty level does play a major part: on lower levels, the player gets small bonuses. The fourth standard "Prince" level is more or less even. But on higher levels the AI players get more and more ridicolous bonuses: On the highest level Deity the AI players get to found three cities to the player's one from Turn 1, and they get major bonuses to production, gold and combat.

As for how Nintendo reacts to stereotypes, well they're not too afraid of using national stereotypes themselves as long as they're not demeaning. They've used stereotypical Japanese music and trappings themselves a number of times. Also consider:


Really, the only way the devs could've made Windmillville even more Dutch was to have copious amounts of polders in the background.

Civilization as a game is heavily reliant on the early game - usually the normal 4000 BC start point to the end of the Medieval Era. When one is starting out, settling the first couple or so cities, scouting and getting the needed techs for early game resources, formulating plans for later on. Oh and surviving potential hordes of barbarians, clearing out barbarian camps (because they autospawn barbarian units, often best to take them out ASAP) and prepping for or guarding against any aggresive AI neighbors like Alexander or Cleopatra.* Or if one is playing multiplayer, everyone's going to go aggro sooner or later for teh win.

That's where I think a Civ representative in Smash could work - cities in Civ work by giving "zones of control" to surrounding land. The more the city can grow, the larger territory it will control. As such, a Civ representative could maybe work by establishing a similar, but lets say more fluid "zone of control" that strenghens the longer one attacks and / or keeps oneself from getting hit too much, but it shrinks after consecutive hits. The ZoC could offer various small but useful buffs to the character and possible teammates. Late game units like tanks might only buff the player if the ZoC is "strong" enough. In order to prevent excessive camping problems it might be worth it to make the ZoC semi-autonomous and not staying entirely in place, but moving a bit on its own so the player also has to react a bit.

I'm spitballing with the idea, the moveset could pull from a vast variety of weaponry, and that is awesome in itself. It's also a major reason why I support both Master Chief and KOS MOS, after all.

*It's also map-dependent: Horses are invisible when starting a game in Civ VI (somehow, the sneaky mother****ers weigh a lot for crying out loud) until one researches the beginning tech Animal Husbandry - if one is playing a cavalry-centric Civ like Mongolia or Byzantium (Eastern Roman Empire) and one gets a bad start with little workable land and no horses around? Whelp, time to hit the restart button and hope for better map RNG. The map RNG is usually not that cruel - most starts are pretty decent and a lot of civs have start biases towards terrain they're most famous for. Still though.

Civ VI is definetely worth it if you're into strategy games: It's feature rich, got loads of replayability and allows for a lot of crazy images and scenarios: but buggy as hell and the late game can be a chore sometimes. It's also not cheap: Civ VI plus its two expansions costs a pretty penny. Then you also have the New Frontier's Pass, another 8 civs + game modes for another $25 I believe. And that's not counting the stand-alone DLC, which is another seven Civs (The Poles, Australians, Persians, Macedonians, Nubians, Khmer, and Indonesians) plus scenarios. The pack containing those seven civs cost $50ish in total unless it's on Steam Sale FFS.

And now I'm suddenly reminded of why I ****ing hate 2K's microtransaction practices.
 
Joined
Oct 31, 2018
Messages
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I think it can be broken down into three parts.

Joker - The characters don't need to have close ties to Nintendo, so we've opened up the discussion tenfold. Dante sees a rise in popularity, as does Doomguy, 2B, Dovahkiin... characters not immediately associated with Nintendo and skewed a bit more "mature". It also puts the focus on more modern franchises and big recent releases. Reggie's statement of "characters you wouldn't usually expect" rang loud for people.

Hero - "Oh, well that makes sense." Big in Japan picks, big legacy picks... think Resident Evil, Monster Hunter, this is what got me thinking about Puyo Puyo also.

Terry - Okay, well now ANYTHING can happen. At least most people in the community knew Joker and knew what Dragon Quest was... enter Terry, who half of Smash players outright didn't know and was not perceived as the star of a particularly popular or relevant series. More conversations rise about slept-on legacy franchises like Ys, Guilty Gear or Puyo Puyo (again). After Terry I feel like we touched upon pretty much every possible viable candidate.
Even then, there were a decent amount of characters that weren't put on the discussion table until Sephiroth. The whole second character from a game idea was a big no-no for a lot of people (I was one of them).
 

LiveStudioAudience

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4,062
Hey, thanks for the shout out!

**** I haven't really managed to explain why a Civilization rep would be awesome to see (Nuclear Gandhi or not) - sometimes because those posts lacked a point and was poorly thought out. Lets take that extremely awkward segue and rectify that! This is going to be a long one.

Now, first thing first, I have no goddamn clue what to choose. Gandhi himself is probably ruled out as playable (possible NPC though) since a lot of Indians revere him as practically a saint (see reactions to Clone High Gandhi), a Smash appearance would risk contradicting the real Gandhi's efforts and his normal pacifist playstyle in Civilization, and Nintendo generally wants to avoid controversies whenever possible.
A pity given we already have the ideal kind of Smash trailer for him:

 

Evil Trapezium

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You misconstrued what I said when I was saying that "he's popular and obvious" is often the CORE of people's arguments for Crash. As true as it is, it's not exactly something exclusive to him. So I don't think it's contrarian to not be blindly convinced by this, a statement that can be applied toward about a hundred characters still absent from Smash. If you truly read my posts you would know I'm skeptical of additional western characters in general and believe Crash's popularity may have come too late to have a significant impact.

It's not that simple and there is room for doubt toward pretty much every character you can suggest. Even if they seem to have everything in the world going for them, there's at least something that can be gathered that could get in their way.

The bottom line is sometimes popularity is enough to boost a character to playability. Sometimes it isn't. I'm not convinced by the points in favor of Crash since I believe the big major pass sellers are already Steve and Sephiroth and his significance is matched by a variety of characters who are also missing. Call it a gut feeling, if nothing else I said satisfies you.
I will level with you about timing because I used to believe that Crash was too late to be in Fighter Pass 1 but by the time Fighter Pass 2 was finalised, Crash Bandicoot was already incredibly popular, was relevant again, the N. Sane trilogy was ported to the Switch, Crash Team Racing was the next upcoming game and Activision would be able to discuss their five year plan for Crash to Nintendo so I don't see why he'd be too late this time. I can understand that another Western character maybe unlikely but I think Crash's unique factor of being a popular western character in Japan as well as the other points I mentioned above is enough to choose him over other characters.

Also I can understand that Steve and Sephiroth could be the only big picks we could get for Fighter Pass 2 but it's a new year so we could see another big character saved for this year. In fact the rest of this pass could shock us by having the rest of the slots being taken up by big characters but that's just speculation.

That it doesn't really make Crash special? If there are more characters who this can be said about than there are slots remaining in the Fighter's Pass, I can't really fault anyone for being skeptical of any character.

For what it's worth, even though I disagree with you, I UNDERSTAND why you and many others think Crash is a likely character. It's unfair that you aren't willing to give that same understanding to the opposing side, and resort to assumptions and name calling.
Of course it doesn't make Crash special, saying just that isn't going to make character magically more important than others. It's there to explain why so many people think a character is likely and to ask why people are so skeptical all of a sudden.

I'm not here to attack anyone and if you were offended with how aggressive my reply looked then I apologise because that's not my intent. I mean no ill will towards you or anyone else on this site so I hope you can forgive me.
 
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Scoliosis Jones

Kept you waiting, huh?
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I don’t really think I agree with there not being any “big” picks to close out the pass, though I’m not sure that makes sense without a definition anyway.

There are three picks, and probably 6-8 months left. Do you really think they’re gonna pick 3 “boring” picks to close things out? Though, again, “boring” requires a definition.
 

Cutie Gwen

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Hey, thanks for the shout out!

**** I haven't really managed to explain why a Civilization rep would be awesome to see (Nuclear Gandhi or not) - sometimes because those posts lacked a point and was poorly thought out. Lets take that extremely awkward segue and rectify that! This is going to be a long one.

Now, first thing first, I have no goddamn clue what to choose. Gandhi himself is probably ruled out as playable (possible NPC though) since a lot of Indians revere him as practically a saint (see reactions to Clone High Gandhi), a Smash appearance would risk contradicting the real Gandhi's efforts and his normal pacifist playstyle in Civilization, and Nintendo generally wants to avoid controversies whenever possible. I don't think Nuclear Gandhi caused a near-revolt in India because it started out as an unintentional bug. That and if that had happened... we would've already seen it. Nuclear Gandhi first became a thing during the Civ I days (early 1990s). It's gotten a bit controversial within the Civ fanbase (like the CivFanatics forum) partly because it's an old meme, and so the Civilization devs have begun adding alternate Indian leaders like the more straightforwardly militaristic Chandragupta Maurya (who conquered almost the entirety of India around 300 BC and fought Alexander the Great before abdicating the throne and became a monk in order to repent).

So it's difficult to say. Amongst the playable leaders Japan's leaders might be hypotheoretically attractive to Nintendo: Nobunaga is the representative leader in V, Hojo Tokimune in VI (the regent during the Mongol invasion and the famous kamikaze). Those two are not controversial but could perhaps be adapted into playable characters. A lot of mainstays are your usual suspects for history-based games: Napoleon for the French (coincidence of all coincidences, Nintendo and Intelligent Systems also produced a Napoleon game for the GBA), Elizabeth I / Victoria for the English, Genghis Khan for Mongolia etc.

And yes, Civilization relies a lot on national stereotypes. It has done so ever since III, which began to differentiate the different factions' playstyles. And if you gotta differentiate the different playable civs... well, you go with the obvious markers. Especially since Civ VI has 50 different playable civs / factions in total. For example, America usually gets late game bonuses: of course America's unique building in Civ VI is the Film Studio! And the Film Studio is, of course, very well suited if one's playing as America and going for a Cultural victory (gaining more visiting tourists from other civs than any other civ has domestic tourists). There are 6 different victory conditions (peaceful ones like Science, warmongering ones like Domination etc.), and the unique units, buildings, leader bonuses etc. are going to have a major impact usually on what to pursue. Then again, one can win any victory with anyone.

The difficulty level does play a major part: on lower levels, the player gets small bonuses. The fourth standard "Prince" level is more or less even. But on higher levels the AI players get more and more ridicolous bonuses: On the highest level Deity the AI players get to found three cities to the player's one from Turn 1, and they get major bonuses to production, gold and combat.

As for how Nintendo reacts to stereotypes, well they're not too afraid of using national stereotypes themselves as long as they're not demeaning. They've used stereotypical Japanese music and trappings themselves a number of times. Also consider:


Really, the only way the devs could've made Windmillville even more Dutch was to have copious amounts of polders in the background.

Civilization as a game is heavily reliant on the early game - usually the normal 4000 BC start point to the end of the Medieval Era. When one is starting out, settling the first couple or so cities, scouting and getting the needed techs for early game resources, formulating plans for later on. Oh and surviving potential hordes of barbarians, clearing out barbarian camps (because they autospawn barbarian units, often best to take them out ASAP) and prepping for or guarding against any aggresive AI neighbors like Alexander or Cleopatra.* Or if one is playing multiplayer, everyone's going to go aggro sooner or later for teh win.

That's where I think a Civ representative in Smash could work - cities in Civ work by giving "zones of control" to surrounding land. The more the city can grow, the larger territory it will control. As such, a Civ representative could maybe work by establishing a similar, but lets say more fluid "zone of control" that strenghens the longer one attacks and / or keeps oneself from getting hit too much, but it shrinks after consecutive hits. The ZoC could offer various small but useful buffs to the character and possible teammates. Late game units like tanks might only buff the player if the ZoC is "strong" enough. In order to prevent excessive camping problems it might be worth it to make the ZoC semi-autonomous and not staying entirely in place, but moving a bit on its own so the player also has to react a bit.

I'm spitballing with the idea, the moveset could pull from a vast variety of weaponry, and that is awesome in itself. It's also a major reason why I support both Master Chief and KOS MOS, after all.

*It's also map-dependent: Horses are invisible when starting a game in Civ VI (somehow, the sneaky mother****ers weigh a lot for crying out loud) until one researches the beginning tech Animal Husbandry - if one is playing a cavalry-centric Civ like Mongolia or Byzantium (Eastern Roman Empire) and one gets a bad start with little workable land and no horses around? Whelp, time to hit the restart button and hope for better map RNG. The map RNG is usually not that cruel - most starts are pretty decent and a lot of civs have start biases towards terrain they're most famous for. Still though.

Civ VI is definetely worth it if you're into strategy games: It's feature rich, got loads of replayability and allows for a lot of crazy images and scenarios: but buggy as hell and the late game can be a chore sometimes. It's also not cheap: Civ VI plus its two expansions costs a pretty penny. Then you also have the New Frontier's Pass, another 8 civs + game modes for another $25 I believe. And that's not counting the stand-alone DLC, which is another seven Civs (The Poles, Australians, Persians, Macedonians, Nubians, Khmer, and Indonesians) plus scenarios. The pack containing those seven civs cost $50ish in total unless it's on Steam Sale FFS.

And now I'm suddenly reminded of why I ****ing hate 2K's microtransaction practices.
You're welcome, your posts always come across as well informed, the fact they tend to go in great detail shoes that you have genuine interest and you also often use your competitive knowledge to help sell a character based on playstyle, it's genuinely fun to read dude.


Also as a Dutch woman I disagree on that point, it's not truly the Netherlands without cogs, children calling everyone a vagina and a frikandelbroodje. The ***** aren't important outside the Afsluitdijk I take it back you aren't well informed at all smh
 

SWSU

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 22, 2020
Messages
127
There are three picks, and probably 6-8 months left. Do you really think they’re gonna pick 3 “boring” picks to close things out? Though, again, “boring” requires a definition.
  • Rep from a Niche Series
  • Minor Character from a First Party Series
  • Fire Emblem Character
 

7NATOR

Smash Master
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Messages
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I always found it strange how quickly people rule out the possibility of two characters from the same company appearing in FP2. Sure, we haven't seen any repeat companies on the same pass yet, but we're only two passes in. Plus, out of the eight DLC characters we've gotten thus far, two of them were from Square and two of them were from Microsoft. Logically, from a negotiations standpoint, it might even make more sense for Nintendo to get multiple characters from the same company. It's not like Sakurai or Nintendo would reject Lara Croft simply because we already have Sephiroth.
Well you do have a point there

I guess one thing I'll say is that, especially if there are plans for future content regarding Smash (DLC or New game), it could be more beneficial to save the other Potential characters for the future, So they have somewhat of a certain pipeline of potential newcomers that's not Nintendo characters

Like regarding Microsoft, Perhaps instead of having Both Steve and Master Chief in one pass, they might find it more beneficial to save him for FP3 or Smash.

The problem with this is that because these great relations with any 3rd party company is not insured, It might be taking a gamble to wait, because if for some reason the relationships turn sour, than they lose their chances to include the characters.

There might also be the issue of perhaps the characters stealing each other's thunder, Because you could look at it as not just Franchises being represented, buy Collab's (or more of it) with that specific company. Though to be honest, I don't think this reasoning is the best since alot of the time Franchises, despite coming from the Same company, Have way different audiences, and alot of the time really only come with Content from the specific franchise, not the company

I guess the Final thing I could think of is that maybe it's just easier negotiating for one Character per company. Negotiations can take awhile because you got to Plan EVERYTHING related to the character, and companies have different guidelines and such, which could mean different amounts of times. They did have to re-negotiate for the veterans, but being a veteran, they already had their moveset implemented, so it's not as much negotiating as creating a Brand new character

However, I don't think Precedent is a good reason, as we've seen precedent get broken many times, but without precendent we also can't expect it, but I don't think it's impossible. Personally I don't think we'll see a Company get 2 Fighters (that's not Nintendo) in one pass as of right now, but I don't think the idea is impossible
 

True Blue Warrior

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I don’t really think I agree with there not being any “big” picks to close out the pass, though I’m not sure that makes sense without a definition anyway.

There are three picks, and probably 6-8 months left. Do you really think they’re gonna pick 3 “boring” picks to close things out? Though, again, “boring” requires a definition.
That’s the thing, we don’t know when this pass was meant to originally finish considering COVID messed up the schedule and we got 5 characters in around a year for the first Fighter Pass. There is a possibility no character was meant to be saved for E3 2021 as the pass could have finished before June 2021 originally.
 

Megadoomer

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I don’t really think I agree with there not being any “big” picks to close out the pass, though I’m not sure that makes sense without a definition anyway.

There are three picks, and probably 6-8 months left. Do you really think they’re gonna pick 3 “boring” picks to close things out? Though, again, “boring” requires a definition.
I guess the concern is that the DLC (and announcements for Smash in general, from what I recall) tend to "peak" around the middle from what we've seen. Admittedly, it depends on how you feel about Bayonetta (I was a huge fan of her being included in Smash, seeing as Bayo 2 was part of the reason why I bought a Wii U), but Smash 4's DLC had Ryu and Cloud in the middle and finished off with Corrin and Bayonetta (who were, from what I recall, controversial to say the least). Smash Ultimate had K. Rool and the Belmonts in the middle, and then finished off with Incineroar. Fighters Pass 1 had Hero and Banjo and Kazooie in the middle, but finished off with Byleth. (even Terry had plenty of people reacting with "who?", though that seems like it depends on the age of the people involved or how much they knew about traditional fighting games)

I can't recall how people reacted to the reveals for Smash 4's base game (and the ESRB leak likely played a part to temper expectations or result in people not being as excited as they might have been), but I don't think that Duck Hunt Dog (or Shulk, who I think was the last reveal before it was made clear that the ESRB leak was real) was as exciting or "big" as the likes of Mega Man or Little Mac. (I know that Wolf and ROB were seen as underwhelming picks for Brawl's roster, but it's been a long time since Brawl speculation, so I don't know if it was thought of as peaking in the middle, especially with Sonic's late addition)

I could be wrong about the reactions - it's been a while, I'm just going off of what I remember, and what's a "big reveal" for one person might be a "who?" for another.
 
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N3ON

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It's a little strange placing a western character owned by Activision whose popularity didn't kick in until post-ballot first on the list of likelihood, above characters like Ryu Hayabusa, a presumably cheaper and more easily acquired Japanese character who fits the profile of who DLC has favoured and comes from a company with very close ties to Nintendo who are easy to work with and already have content in the game.

Or even placing him above a Capcom or Namco character. Incidentally, the five spot disparity Dante has over Monster Hunter is also pretty strange.

Crash is popular, and big, and he's definitely got a shot, but popularity isn't everything all the time. Especially because he's probably got less popularity in Japan. It's pretty questionable to consider him the likeliest character, staff of Smashboards and others.

Think you guys might've let popularity bleed into likelihood a bit too much on this one. And frankly, any western character being considered the likeliest is a strange proposition, full stop. Those guys have a much rockier road to get in.
 

Louie G.

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I'm not here to attack anyone and if you were offended with how aggressive my reply looked then I apologise because that's not my intent. I mean no ill will towards you or anyone else on this site so I hope you can forgive me.
All good my friend! Agree to disagree, we'll just have to see what happens.

I don’t really think I agree with there not being any “big” picks to close out the pass, though I’m not sure that makes sense without a definition anyway.

There are three picks, and probably 6-8 months left. Do you really think they’re gonna pick 3 “boring” picks to close things out? Though, again, “boring” requires a definition.
For what it's worth, I think we're probably gonna get one more big kahuna at E3. But using FP1 as a base, and taking into account potential marketing techniques, I think it's a fair theory that the fighter pass would be somewhat front loaded to get people to buy it early (Joker, Hero, Banjo / Steve, Sephiroth), and then take the opportunity later on to add more experimental characters (a la Terry or Byleth) who may not have been able to sell the pass on their own.

With that in mind, I'm actually MORE excited for the second half. Terry was my favorite character last time, and many of the characters I get excited about fall under a somewhat similar dark horse umbrella. Min Min being the first character of FP2 was an... interesting decision though. I like Min Min so it paid off for me. In any case, my mentality certainly isn't that the second half would be more "boring" and moreso maybe a bit cheaper and a bit more niche.
 
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Pillow

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Hayabusa's been brought up countless times just to **** on him lmao, there's been more discussion on how he's a boring safe pick than how cool it'd be to bring him in.

When people talk about character aesthetics fitting they never refer to the anime looking characters, hence why people whine "ANEEM BAD" whenever we get a character regardless of what they bring to the table whereas cartoony mascot platformers only got this criticism as a joke at how people insist that 'fits' better when Smash has been a visual clash since the beginning. Hell, I'm pretty sure I started the whole 'cartoony punchy dude' comment myself
It might just be because I'm relatively new here, but I haven't seen much Hayabusa hate. I have seen a lot of people randomly bring up how Crash's chances are overrated. While I also don't think Crash is that likely, it always struck me as kind of odd how often it was brought up.

Quick question: Would the Dragonborn actually be called Dovakhin in Super Smash Bros. or are people just used to hearing that in game because of the dialects the npcs use?
It could go either way, both Draganborn and Dovahkin are technically correct titles for the character.

It's a little strange placing a western character owned by Activision whose popularity didn't kick in until post-ballot first on the list of likelihood, above characters like Ryu Hayabusa, a presumably cheaper and more easily acquired Japanese character who fits the profile of who DLC has favoured and comes from a company with very close ties to Nintendo who are easy to work with and already have content in the game.

Or even placing him above a Capcom or Namco character. Incidentally, the five spot disparity Dante has over Monster Hunter is also pretty strange.

Crash is popular, and big, and he's definitely got a shot, but popularity isn't everything all the time. Especially because he's probably got less popularity in Japan. It's pretty questionable to consider him the likeliest character, staff of Smashboards and others.

Think you guys might've let popularity bleed into likelihood a bit too much on this one. And frankly, any western character being considered the likeliest is a strange proposition, full stop. Those guys have a much rockier road to get in.
Yeah, Smash has always been very Japan-centric. It took Minecraft Steve to break the trend.
 

Dinoman96

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3,278
Yeah, Smash has always been very Japan-centric. It took Minecraft Steve to break the trend.
Even then, it's really questionable to say that Steve "broke the trend" considering he too is technically Japan-centric, as Minecraft is literally the best selling foreign game in Japan.
 
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CannonStreak

Supersonic Warrior
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Nov 4, 2013
Messages
17,832
Well, who is expecting a Direct this week?

...A Pokemon one, not a normal one. I mean, a Pokemon one could happen at the end of the month instead, but I am just wondering.
 

Megadoomer

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It's a little strange placing a western character owned by Activision whose popularity didn't kick in until post-ballot first on the list of likelihood, above characters like Ryu Hayabusa, a presumably cheaper and more easily acquired Japanese character who fits the profile of who DLC has favoured and comes from a company with very close ties to Nintendo who are easy to work with and already have content in the game.

Or even placing him above a Capcom or Namco character. Incidentally, the five spot disparity Dante has over Monster Hunter is also pretty strange.

Crash is popular, and big, and he's definitely got a shot, but popularity isn't everything all the time. Especially because he's probably got less popularity in Japan. It's pretty questionable to consider him the likeliest character, staff of Smashboards and others.

Think you guys might've let popularity bleed into likelihood a bit too much on this one. And frankly, any western character being considered the likeliest is a strange proposition, full stop. Those guys have a much rockier road to get in.
There was some discussion about who should get the number one spot - more people put Ryu Hayabusa as number 1 on their list, but more people voted for Crash in their top ten. It probably could have gone either way, and the list is just for fun anyways. (it's not like it's actually going to determine who the most likely picks are going to be for Smash Bros. DLC)
 
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Among Waddle Dees

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I almost am looking forward to seeing a dip in hype-inducing characters, actually. After years of big shots, I want a more reasonable choice that resonates with a Brawl or even a Melee inclusion. Banjo was the only DLC character to basically do this for me; everyone else either didn't qualify on those terms or had a caveat.

Keyword: almost. Since I don't trust the odds of this panning out.
 
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N3ON

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It's even more questionable when you consider if you're going to start working with behind the scenes info instead of who actually arrived first, there's no proof that Steve was the first western character propositioned.

For all intents and purposes, western third parties began with Banjo.

There was some discussion about who should get the number one spot - more people put Ryu Hayabusa as number 1 on their list, but more people voted for Crash in their top ten. It probably could have gone either way, and the list is just for fun anyways. (it's not like it's actually going to determine who the most likely picks are going to be for Smash Bros. DLC)
Yes, I know it's just a few peoples' takes, but publishing a likelihood list inherently comes with scrutiny.
 
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Schnee117

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Well, who is expecting a Direct this week?

...A Pokemon one, not a normal one. I mean, a Pokemon one could happen at the end of the month instead, but I am just wondering.
All the Pokemon stuff is next week so if there's a Pokemon Direct, it's then

 
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CannonStreak

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So, any other characters other than Ryu Hayabusa and Crash that may have a high chance, or are at least being expected to make it into Smash?
 

Rie Sonomura

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Well, who is expecting a Direct this week?

...A Pokemon one, not a normal one. I mean, a Pokemon one could happen at the end of the month instead, but I am just wondering.
Isn’t this the Zelda anniversary week? I’m expecting a shadow dropped uploaded Zelda mini

no smash character

Maybe a Zelda-themed Splatfest tho???
 

chocolatejr9

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CannonStreak

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Isn’t this the Zelda anniversary week? I’m expecting a shadow dropped uploaded Zelda mini

no smash character

Maybe a Zelda-themed Splatfest tho???
All the Pokemon stuff is next week so if there's a Pokemon Direct, it's then

Ah, I see.

So, again, who else is expected to make it into Smash besides maybe Ryu Hayabusa and Crash?
 

N3ON

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So, any other characters other than Ryu Hayabusa and Crash that may have a high chance, or are at least being expected to make it into Smash?
I think expecting any character to make it in is a bad place to start. Ryu Hayabusa and Crash and other characters have merit, but the reality of who gets in could go any countless number of ways. Any character on that list could plausibly make it in.

Though frankly Rayman is pretty unlikely imo.
 

CannonStreak

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In general or among specific people?
Anyone. In general.

I think expecting any character to make it in is a bad place to start. Ryu Hayabusa and Crash and other characters have merit, but the reality of who gets in could go any countless number of ways. Any character on that list could plausibly make it in.

Though frankly Rayman is pretty unlikely imo.
Yeah I know. But I am not making expectations. I was just asking.

I do also find Rayman unlikely, though. I wish he wasn't.
 

Goombaic

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Monster Hunter slowly but surely became a part of the conversation over time, but I wouldn't say it's incredibly "popular" compared to the others and it wasn't really even until somewhere between Steve and Sephiroth that it began to be taken seriously again.
Monster Hunter has consistently been a big demand for at least 5 years now. I don't know how people still view them as dark horses. The more a character's called a dark horse the more I believe they're not one at that point.
It might just be because I'm relatively new here, but I haven't seen much Hayabusa hate. I have seen a lot of people randomly bring up how Crash's chances are overrated. While I also don't think Crash is that likely, it always struck me as kind of odd how often it was brought up.
Any commonly discussed character will have a period of pure hate once in a while. Pokemon and Fire Emblem more than any, but Hayabusa, Crash, and others are getting up there with detractors.
 
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Captain Shwampy

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You guys better learn how to like cinderace fast because we are two weeks away from it being confirmed for DLC and getting drawn being friends with sephiroth or isabelle or some **** idk



















😏
 

chocolatejr9

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Anyone. In general.



Yeah I know. But I am not making expectations. I was just asking.

I do also find Rayman unlikely, though. I wish he wasn't.
In that case, I've seen more people agree that we'll get at least one more first party character than people who don't think that. Though then the problem becomes who will that first party be...
 

CannonStreak

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Monster Hunter has consistently been a big demand for at least 5 years now. I don't know how people still view them as dark horses. There more a character's called a dark horse the more I believe they're not one at that point.

Any commonly discussed character will have a period of pure hate once in a while. Pokemon and Fire Emblem more than any, but Hayabusa, Crash, and others are getting up there with detractors.
Tell me about it, that was the case with Geno, who did not get in, as well as Ridley and K. Rool, who did get in.

Either way, no character is without haters.
 

Louie G.

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So, any other characters other than Ryu Hayabusa and Crash that may have a high chance, or are at least being expected to make it into Smash?
IMO a new character from Capcom is an extremely safe guess in general, but it's of course a matter of perspective who that could end up being.

As N3ON just said it's kind of a fool's errand to "expect" anyone outright, but I think Monster Hunter has quite a lot going for it. Two new Switch releases on the horizon, a tremendously popular series not unlike Dragon Quest in Japan which has seen worldwide relevance upon the release of MH World (Capcom's best selling game EVER), Min Min and Sephiroth showing how series with minimal content can be expanded on and Steve implying that some of these characters have been in talks for years... seeing how Monster Hunter has unused spirits in-game and music lumped with the playable characters...

I mean, Capcom has a lot of great choices so it may not be them. But there are tons of reasons to believe it would be.

Monster Hunter has consistently been a big demand for at least 5 years now. I don't know how people still view them as dark horses. There more a character's called a dark horse the more I believe they're not one at that point.
Monster Hunter was considered entirely out of the picture by most up until FP2, and people were not convinced that they had a chance until even later than that with Steve and eventually Sephiroth breaking down some potential barriers. I say this from experience, having brought them up various times prior in multiple communities and usually being met with responses of doubt and suggestions that Capcom would rather go with a brand new series like Devil May Cry, and that Monster Hunter was "represented fine" with just Rathalos.

This mindset still persists sometimes but it has died down a lot. I wouldn't call MH a dark horse anymore, not by a longshot, but it took a while for us to get to this point. I can't tell you how many times I had to explain to people that the whole "MH devs don't want the series to be represented by the Hunters" stuff was outdated nonsense.
 
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N3ON

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Monster Hunter has consistently been a big demand for at least 5 years now. I don't know how people still view them as dark horses. The more a character's called a dark horse the more I believe they're not one at that point.
Now that is a dubious claim if I've seen one. Monster Hunter becoming a big demand and not just... mid-tier stuff is a much more recent development than five years back.
 
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