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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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Cutie Gwen

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I'm not saying it's that extreme, but people who support normal Nintendo characters need to constantly deal with being told their characters are suddenly not important enough or "DLC material" anymore.

Min Min's reception was lukewarm and retrospectively people are often quite negative about her. But adding fresh new Nintendo IPs in the form of Olimar or Shulk in the past was never an issue. The values of the community have absolutely changed, up to you whether or not that's a good thing I suppose but to say "nobody is opposed to it" feels a bit disingenuous when there are absolutely people who ONLY want the biggest, craziest and hypest names.
Call me crazy but I think people just want characters they like. Nintendo characters aren't seen as exciting because people simply don't like the common suggestions and don't think the ones they actually like have a chance or a lot of fans, like, if you asked me, Antasma's the best Mario character we can add, but would Nintendo add him? No, Nintendo's handling of their own characters in the game suggests he's never getting in. Would people suddenly discuss him more just because I said this? No, because they'd rather have Waluigi, Toad, Geno, whatever. People keep trying to make this some kind of mutually exclusive situation where everything's an Us vs Them scenario for some reason. Another reason I don't bring up Antasma much is because there are so many other cool characters I'd love to see, some first parties, but mostly third parties because I happen to like those characters and franchises more, non of this one side or the other crap
I mean, who wouldn’t want more third parties in smash?

But that doesn’t mean Nintendo Characters are bad and unwanted. There are alot of Nintendo characters that have large bases who want them in(such as Waluigi and Bandanna Dee) but talking about 3rd parties is more interesting I guess. I don’t know how you came to that conclusion.
I'm complaining about people pretending every first party suggestion is disgusting in the eyes of 'the third party hivemind' as again, you're repeating my own opinions at me.
 

Commander_Alph

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Just face it, deep down everyone likes Min Min just because she break the spirit cycle that keep getting them trap behind bars, everyone basically treats her as a meat shield rather than an actual character (and of course there's those people who think Min Min is waifu, and like her moveset but that's a whole different story)
 
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SharkLord

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Just face it, deep down everyone likes Min Min just because she break the spirit cycle that keep getting them trap behind bars, everyone basically treats her as an object rather than a character (and of course there's those people who think Min Min is waifu, and like her moveset but that's a whole different story)
Ramen Tengoku Ramen Tengoku is typing...
 

Louie G.

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I wouldn’t go that far in saying that (she was far more well-received than Byleth who did get a lukewarm reception) but it is true that there were significantly more people underwhelmed by her because she was a lesser-known Nintendo character instead of a big name third-party character than with Shulk in Smash 4.
I suppose I meant more like, people pretty much just tolerated ARMS and Min Min because they had three months to lead up to it and she opened the door for spirit characters that they actually wanted. It felt more like the positivity surrounding Min Min was these broken barriers, and after a while people kinda just tossed her to the side and started treating her as a lesser choice. But I dunno, maybe as someone who likes Min Min I'm just more sensitive to a smaller group of people who have done this.

Just face it, deep down everyone likes Min Min just because she break the spirit cycle that keep getting them trap behind bars, everyone basically treats her as an object rather than a character (and of course there's those people who think Min Min is waifu, but that's a whole different story)
Or I actually like Min Min, always thought she had the most potential out of the cast and think all the ARMS characters are pretty great.

But yes that's definitely why a lot of people were more positive about her at the time (which ironically resulted in... nothing, as of this point lmao).
 
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Commander_Alph

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Or I actually like Min Min, always thought she had the most potential out of the cast and think all the ARMS characters are pretty great.

But yes that's definitely why a lot of people were more positive about her at the time (which ironically resulted in... nothing, as of this point lmao).
that's why I added the ones who like her at the end but mostly these perception of her always stem from the toxic side of Smash discussion
 
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Perkilator

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I thought that she had a much higher reception because she was a Spirit in the base game, thus killing the infamous argument that "Spirits deconfirm".
I was ecstatic myself - not just because Spirits are viable, but because this means Sakurai doesn’t have to potentially break his back over Assist Trophies.
 

Cutie Gwen

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I suppose I meant more like, people pretty much just tolerated ARMS and Min Min because they had three months to lead up to it and she opened the door for spirit characters that they actually wanted. It felt more like the positivity surrounding Min Min was these broken barriers, and after a while people kinda just tossed her to the side and started treating her as a lesser choice. But I dunno, maybe as someone who likes Min Min I'm just more sensitive to a smaller group of people who have done this.



Or I actually like Min Min, always thought she had the most potential out of the cast and think all the ARMS characters are pretty great.

But yes that's definitely why a lot of people were more positive about her at the time (which ironically resulted in... nothing, as of this point lmao).
Meanwhile there's people like me who already dislike ARMS, gave the character a chance because the idea was sound but disliked the execution due to the ridiculously homogenized moveset and baffling design choices that go against the rules of pretty much any fighting game
 
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Meanwhile there's people like me who already dislike ARMS, gave the character a chance because the idea was sound but disliked the execution due to the ridiculously homogenized moveset and baffling design choices that go against the rules of pretty much any fighting game
I thought it was a pretty neat party game that was fun for when you don't want to think and just play a bit but not much else
 

True Blue Warrior

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I was ecstatic myself - not just because Spirits are viable, but because this means Sakurai doesn’t have to potentially break his back over Assist Trophies.
I don’t get this statement. Dealing with AT is relatively easy as certain ones are already disabled depending on certain circumstances.
 

Sari

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So here's something that several SmashBoards writers/staff (me included) have been working on for a while: a Top 10 Most Likely Character List.



Click here to read the list
Also make sure to read the "How this Top 10 was Created" section so you know how we made this.

This article took a ton of time to make so we hope you all enjoy it. Keep in mind that this is just part 1, and that part 2 with characters #5 through #1 should be up on Monday.

My own thoughts:
I personally disagree with Rayman being on there since I think he is super overrated in regards to chances. Same with #3 in the next article who I won't spoil. Everyone else I think is pretty reasonable, and either way I think the writers did a good job with each character.
 

Guynamednelson

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I don’t get this statement. Dealing with AT is relatively easy as certain ones are already disabled depending on certain circumstances.
It's Perkilator's fantasy world where promoting an AT requires editing EVERYTHING in the game. Yet AC Cloud's FS and the new Cloud spirit didn't.
 
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Commander_Alph

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I honestly think that the driving factor that could make everyone satisfied with a 1st party is the one that gets added is the ones that heavily wanted like.. idk
 
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Among Waddle Dees

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Just face it, deep down everyone likes Min Min just because she break the spirit cycle that keep getting them trap behind bars, everyone basically treats her as a meat shield rather than an actual character (and of course there's those people who think Min Min is waifu, and like her moveset but that's a whole different story)

Can I opt out of this generalization? I do not trust the idea that Min-Min was overall beneficial; could be that she has no bearing on the spirit debacle.
 

True Blue Warrior

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It's Perkilator's fantasy world where promoting an AT requires editing EVERYTHING in the game. Yet AC Cloud's FS and the new Cloud spirit
Just like there was no rule preventing a dog from playing basketball in Air Bud, there are no rules preventing an Assist Trophy upgrade via DLC.
 

Schnee117

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I don’t get this statement. Dealing with AT is relatively easy as certain ones are already disabled depending on certain circumstances.
There's only 9 stages + all Battlefield forms and Training stage where you can actually use every Assist trophy even. That's how common it is for an assist to be disabled.
 

Guynamednelson

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Can I opt out of this generalization? I do not trust the idea that Min-Min was overall beneficial; could be that she has no bearing on the spirit debacle.
She would have, then Steve was announced and we were back to square (no pun intended) one.
 

Commander_Alph

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So here's something that several SmashBoards writers/staff (me included) have been working on for a while: a Top 10 Most Likely Character List.



Click here to read the list
Also make sure to read the "How this Top 10 was Created" section so you know how we made this.

This article took a ton of time to make so we hope you all enjoy it. Keep in mind that this is just part 1, and that part 2 with characters #5 through #1 should be up on Monday.

My own thoughts:
I personally disagree with Rayman being on there since I think he is super overrated in regards to chances. Same with #3 in the next article who I won't spoil. Everyone else I think is pretty reasonable, and either way I think the writers did a good job with each character.
I honestly don't agree with putting Eggman up there just because I know the driving factor is none other than Sephiroth and Sephiroth already put too much emphasis on him being the ultimate villain and boss, from Boss Rush Classic Mode and the Sephiroth Challenge.
 

DanganZilla5

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Even though I was not a fan of ARMS at all when a rep was announced almost a year ago, Min Min is actually one of those choices that I enjoy more as time goes on. Her inclusion convinced me to get ARMS and I enjoy it. While I don't play as her often or use the stage much, I do appreciate the effort to make her unique and it was nice seeing a first party series get more content when it only had spirits and a few costumes before.

And no matter what you think of ARMS, the soundtrack slaps.
 
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7NATOR

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You misunderstood everything I said. Chun-Li isn’t the exception to any nonexistent “rule”. She is one of the few characters whose significance in her franchise is practically equal to that of the main protagonist. None of the Sonic characters can say this for themselves, since you used them as examples.

Kyo, sure but that’s a bit of a special case. Terry is the star of Fatal Fury, not KOF - even though they are closely related. It’s kind of a hard comparison to judge because it’s somewhat of a special case. And Raiden... not really? I mean, he has his own games but he’s not as significant as Snake at all. I think you’d be hard pressed to find someone saying Raiden is as iconic as Snake. Having their own game doesn’t immediately make them as important as the main series protagonist.

Shadow having one game does not put him on a Chun-Li esque pedestal in his respective series. Knuckles Chaotix does not make Knuckles as synonymous with the Sonic brand as Chun-Li is with SF. Chun-Li doesn’t have her own game, but rather a deep deep undetachable legacy in this series where she is marketed just as frequently as the main character and appears alongside him in literally like every major SF crossover that isn’t Smash. Not M Bison, not Akuma, not even Ken. That’s Chun-Li showing up, every single time.

Sonic poses a very different problem. Tails, Eggman and Shadow are all equally viable choices for the next Sonic character. Street Fighter does not have this problem. I wasn’t saying Chun-Li is leagues more iconic or whatever than Tails or Eggman - I was saying her role as co-mascot of the series is incomparable to any of them. She’s in a league of her own in that regard. Except maybe the aforementioned Kyo, which is sort of an odd case. But when you want to promote a new Sonic game, you put Sonic front and center. For Street Fighter though...

View attachment 302805

Equal spotlight on both of the stars of the series.

I ask you this as a totally genuine question, I’m not trying to be sarcastic - do you know very much about Street Fighter at all? Seriously, like, it’s so hard to get through to you on this for some reason while I’m speaking from a place of deep love for this series, these characters and knowledge of its history.

You keep undermining the significance of Chun-Li and blatantly misunderstanding or dismissing what people tell you, I don’t get it. She is literally THAT important, nothing else you’re saying about Akuma being the “ultimate secret boss” or whatever justifies this weird uninformed take that anyone even comes close to the significance of Chun-Li, hands down and far away not just the most important SF character absent but legitimately might be the most important video game character absent from the roster. And as bold of a statement as that is it isn’t even a hot take.

I’m sorry to go off on you like this but man, it’s Chun-Li or nothing. 1000%.
First of all

Regarding Sonic, I'm not exactly sure what metric you're trying to use when saying Chun-Li is more important within her series than characters like Tails, Eggman, & Knuckles are.

If you want to go for the boxart, The other Sonic characters have frequently made Appearances on the boxart. The most recent games, Sonic Forces, Mania, and TSR, all had more than just Sonic on the box art. Ryu alone has been used for the boxart, with USF4 and the SF5 Base game

If you want to go for Crossover appearances, typically when Sonic comes along, he usually isn't alone. Ninjala, OK KO, Puyo Puyo, PS02, Sega Allstars, etc. I think Fallguys and Smash are examples where Sonic is alone (though with Smash, There's still the Spirits and Assist trophies).

Within the games themselves, They still show up in Sonic games of course, though I will acknowledge that they might not be playable all the time, but different Genres and stuff like that

The other Sonic characters are as much of Co-Mascots as Chun-Li is.

And does your refusal to mention Zero and Alucard mean that you acknowledge that they are Important in about the same way Chun-Li is. I do acknowledge though that Chun-Li is bigger than these two, but in terms of their respective series, they both important

in any case. I will acknowledge that Chun-Li is more of a Co-Mascot of sorts. She's been in Most crossovers that's Ryu has showed up in (not all of them). I still don't think that means that other Street Fighter characters would be left in the dust

I Have, and do sometimes still play Street Fighter. I've played SF2, Alpha series, 3rd Strike, SF4, and SF5. These were the characters I always saw as most important

-Ken
-Chun-Li
-Akuma
-M.Bison

Bison is more of him being the Big bad of really the entire series except for SF1 and SF3. I don't think his importance to him being the main villain of SF2, the Most important game in the series, should be ignored, even if Bison himself doesn't appear every time both in Street Fighter and in Crossovers

Akuma is not a character I would say is a Co-Mascot, but he just does his own thing. The fact of the matter is that he also frequently make appearances as well. Not as much as Chun, but still frequent, and stuff like him being in X-Men Children of the Atom and Tekken 7 does show he can stand on his own. yes Tekken 7 does focus on the Villains/Antagonists of the series, but the fact of the matter is Akuma is still in the game, where Ryu and Chun are not. It also shows that Akuma plays his own role that Chun does not, and that is something to consider

Ken is already in, no need to talk about him

The thing I'm trying to get at is that While I acknowledge that Chun-Li does have the most merit to be in the game, That doesn't mean she's the only character that could be considered. Ken was considered, and yes he is an echo, but they wouldn't have added him as an echo fighter if he wasn't Ken Masters

Akuma and Bison also play different roles as frequent antagonists of the Street Fighter franchise, and that is an important role that should be taken to account, even if they aren't seen as like Co-Mascot like Chun-Li. I don't think if Chun-Li were for some reason not be able to work, That they would ignore the other options from Street Fighter. they have their own merits

I'm not undermining Chun-Li, I'm just not undermining the other characters and their importance to the series.
 

DanganZilla5

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It’s just a selfish waste of dev time that would only benefit Nintendo’s pockets.
Waste of development time?? First, if they wanted to keep the assist trophy, they could just deactivate it when the playable version is selected. Second, if they wanted to upgrade an assist trophy they already have a model and a few animations to work with, so it would actually save development time. Also, you are saying that it only benefits Nintendo like as if there aren't any good choice of characters they could upgrade.
 
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Perkilator

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Waste of development time?? First, if they wanted to keep the assist trophy, they could just deactivate it when the playable version is selected. Second, if they wanted to upgrade an assist trophy they already have a model and a few animations to work with, so it would actually save development time. Also, you are saying that it only benefits Nintendo like as if there aren't any good choice of characters they could upgrade.
Think about it; Sakurai and his team already went through the trouble of making an Assist Trophy character serve their role as one, but the suddenly Nintendo wants to make them be a fighter. Wouldn’t you be angry if all that had work was undermined, and Nintendo’s excuse was “lol you can just deactivate it when that character is on the stage, that’s totally an excuse for their Assist role no longer meaning anything!”
 
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Louie G.

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The other Sonic characters are as much of Co-Mascots as Chun-Li is.
Sorry dude, I don't wanna have this discussion anymore after this. So I'm just responding to what was said here because I don't want to ignore you. I just want to point out how this tells me you still don't understand. They're not the same, these characters are inarguably supporting characters to Sonic's main character status and Chun-Li is a main protagonist right alongside Ryu. It doesn't make them less viable for Smash Bros but their situations are not comparable.

In regards to the boxart, my point was that Chun-Li shares an equal billing to Ryu. They are treated as complete equals, the promo art for SFV just being a clear visual representation of this treatment. I suppose the famous SA2 art of Sonic and Shadow reflect this as well, but that's one game and Shadow's debut - he isn't treated this way through the whole series. Tails is the sidekick, Eggman is the villain, Sonic is the hero. There's a clear structure there. Ryu and Chun-Li are both the heroes, as far as Street Fighter is usually concerned.

Also, Sonic appears in plenty of things alone, like Puyo and Monkey Ball. Ryu rarely shows up without Chun-Li. Of course the other characters see appearances in crossovers as well, but it's not as consistent nor is any one Sonic character most obviously prioritized to the same degree as Chun-Li alongside the main character.

And does your refusal to mention Zero and Alucard mean that you acknowledge that they are Important in about the same way Chun-Li is.
Not really, it was just late and I didn't see them or feel like listing off every single character. Mega Man is hard to gauge considering Zero is relevant to two Mega Man series out of several, while it always stars some form of Mega Man (well, Mega Man Zero is a bit of a weird one but you get the idea). Castlevania is not comparable because it switches its protagonists often. Simon is to Richter is to Alucard is to Soma Cruz, etc.

I don't think if Chun-Li were for some reason not be able to work, That they would ignore the other options from Street Fighter. they have their own merits
Ok, but I think this point is kind of irrelevant because there is no serious reason why Chun-Li wouldn't be able to work. Terry already implements a charge input for his Rising Tackle, so the single barrier I can think of is no longer a problem. I'm assuming you have the whole "Chun-Li had moveset issues" thing in mind but I find it very difficult to take that claim seriously.

I'm not undermining Chun-Li, I'm just not undermining the other characters and their importance to the series.
Akuma and M. Bison are also important. They're just not Chun-Li. I don't know what else I can say really, if you don't understand the clear divide between Chun-Li and everyone else at this point then I don't think I'm getting through to you.
 
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7NATOR

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Think about it; Sakurai and his team already wen through the trouble of making an Assist Trophy character serve their role as one, but the suddenly Nintendo wants to make them be a fighter. Wouldn’t you be angry if all that had work was undermined, and Nintendo’s excuse was “lol you can just deactivate it when that character is on the stage, that’s totally an excuse for their Assist role no longer meaning anything!”
Well I don't think the people who made the Bomberman Assist Trophy were undermined when he was made a 75 Cent Premium costumes that has alt colors

I also don't think they mind when Assists are deactivated from specific stages because they aren't allowed to have reflections or things like that

Plus Nintendo is funding the Development of Smash Ultimate, As long as the Developers get paid and they aren't infringing on the rights of the Devs, I don't think they will mind too much, especially since Assist Promotion might be an easier job because there are already assets to re-use and all that stuff
 

3BitSaurus

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Think about it; Sakurai and his team already went through the trouble of making an Assist Trophy character serve their role as one, but the suddenly Nintendo wants to make them be a fighter. Wouldn’t you be angry if all that had work was undermined, and Nintendo’s excuse was “lol you can just deactivate it when that character is on the stage, that’s totally an excuse for their Assist role no longer meaning anything!”
I mean... if anything, they'd be doing less work because AT's already have a few normals and even a fully rigged model that they can animate.

So the work wouldn't be undermined - if anything, it's easier for the devs.
 

Guynamednelson

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Please don't bother. The only way to convince Perk that his reasons are BS is for Sakurai to actually promote one during FP2. Which he will.
 

DanganZilla5

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Think about it; Sakurai and his team already wen through the trouble of making an Assist Trophy character serve their role as one, but the suddenly Nintendo wants to make them be a fighter. Wouldn’t you be angry if all that had work was undermined, and Nintendo’s excuse was “lol you can just deactivate it when that character is on the stage, that’s totally an excuse for their Assist role no longer meaning anything!”
Dude I don't think it's that big of a deal. While I'm sure they put quite some time into them, I don't think they would be mad if just one assist trophy got upgraded. And I don't see how deactivating the assist trophy devalues it by a lot when the criteria is it just needs to be deactivated for one character. That's it. It's still going to be in play a lot.

You are a bro Perkilator, let me tell you that now. But this just seems like grasping at straws to keep the assist trophy rule in place when there is no good argument to support it.
 
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SharkLord

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So here's something that several SmashBoards writers/staff (me included) have been working on for a while: a Top 10 Most Likely Character List.



Click here to read the list
Also make sure to read the "How this Top 10 was Created" section so you know how we made this.

This article took a ton of time to make so we hope you all enjoy it. Keep in mind that this is just part 1, and that part 2 with characters #5 through #1 should be up on Monday.

My own thoughts:
I personally disagree with Rayman being on there since I think he is super overrated in regards to chances. Same with #3 in the next article who I won't spoil. Everyone else I think is pretty reasonable, and either way I think the writers did a good job with each character.
I'm not sure how I feel about making a definitive list of most likely characters. There's a lot of work put into it and I do want to hear out the points going for them, but there's just so many unknown variables and potential outcomes that it's extremely hard to officially say "This is the most likely character."

Also, I disagree that Adol is the clear choice for Falcom. Over the years, it seem that they've shifted their focus to Trails instead. It's caught up to Ys in sales despite being around for less than half the time, the latest Trails game is their 40th anniversary game, and from what I can gather, the fanbase is a good deal larger. Adol has a ton of legacy and seemingly has Kondo's favor, which is enough to give me hope, but the gap between him and the Trails heroes is a lot smaller than people think.

(This is going to sound so weird, coming from the site's resident Ys man)
 

True Blue Warrior

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Please don't bother. The only way to convince Perk that his reasons are BS is for Sakurai to actually promote one during FP2. Which he will.
Well, Isaac would bring fresh new tracks, stage and spirits. All of Waluigi’s ten tracks, stage and spirits would just be Waluigi.
 

Guynamednelson

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NO HE ****ING WON’T. He know better than that.
NO HE ****ING WONT need to edit every single stage, and NO HE ****ING WONT think he's throwing away hard work when ATs have like 5% of the work put into a fighter. He knows better than that, because he's actually coding the ****ing game.

This is the part where you escape because you can't handle knowing that ATs don't have Tekken-tier movelists and aren't the thing holding Smash's code together.
 
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Geno Boost

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unpopular opinion but i would like Gill from street fighter to get into smash he has a very interesting concept for a villain rep and 2 style of moveset ice/fire it would be nice to get a new ice user however i am not sure if the fact he only wears pants is an issue he got more costumes in SFV and i dont mind if they went with the story mode costume also after seeing the ending of SFV when Gill appeared i think that its likely that he is going to be playing a major role in the next SF game.
while most people prefer Chun-li to be the next SF rep and thats seems likely i think SF series is able to offer more than just punch and kicks.
 
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