Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

bro don’t make me whip out that meme...

You know, I promised myself I would never go there. And then the opportunity arose in front of me, the proverbial dangling carrot.

I've never been so ashamed and proud of myself at the same time.

 

[SpecterFlower]

https://twitter.com/destructoid/status/1357714486744866817?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1357714486744866817|twgr^|twcon^s1_c10&ref_url=[URL

Smash Bros FP2 seems to be a important part of Nintendo's 2020 sales.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

https://twitter.com/destructoid/status/1357714486744866817?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1357714486744866817%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=

Yeah, we linked that earlier. We COULD in theory get a third pass, but that depends if Sakurai’s willing to play ball too.

for his sake, let him take a vacation of at least four months first...

 

[CureParfait]

https://twitter.com/destructoid/status/1357714486744866817?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1357714486744866817%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=

Although not too surprising but that is really awesome those two managed to be major contributions.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

What I DO wanna know is how much Splatoon 2’s Octo Expansion sold already

 

[SharkLord]

• Freddy, but he can always teleport to his opponent. proceeds to do DBZ sequences

FreddyDittos.gif

(Disclaimer: I dunno what the context is, I just found this somewhere and then remembered it existed because of that post)

 

[SpecterFlower]

What I DO wanna know is how much Splatoon 2’s Octo Expansion sold already

Octo Expansion was one of their most ambitious DLC's, im sure it sold well.

anyway it's been a while, i left for 2 month's, came back said I was back and then left for another month.
Hopefully im here this time for good

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

FreddyDittos.gif

Freddy: teleports behind you "I know what you're going to do."
Other Freddy: teleports behind you "But that doesn't matter because I know what you're going to do."
Both Freddys: teleporting intensifies "STRANGE, ISN'T IT?"

EDIT: What makes this better is that Freddy has a laughter sound effect when he teleports so it's creepy laughter all the way to the blast zone.

 

[Guynamednelson]

for his sake, let him take a vacation of at least four months first...

Japanese work culture: "No."

Actually, let's make a game out of that. Spin the most cursed VisheraGames mods out of your most wanted characters and see what happens.

"Eevee but it evolves into Lucina."
"Marco but his bullets are heat seeking."

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Nintendo says 'major contributions' to their sales came from Pokemon and Smash Bros. DLC

‘Major contributions came from the second round of add-on content’ Seeing Nintendo get involved with DLC was weird (the same...

www.destructoid.com

Anyone post this? How more likely do you guys think a Pass 3, Echo Pass, or post-Pass 2 individual DLC is now?

 

[Perkilator]

Nintendo says 'major contributions' to their sales came from Pokemon and Smash Bros. DLC

‘Major contributions came from the second round of add-on content’ Seeing Nintendo get involved with DLC was weird (the same...

www.destructoid.com

Anyone post this? How more likely do you guys think a Pass 3, Echo Pass, or post-Pass 2 individual DLC is now?

Firstly, yes, it's already been posted. Twice.

Secondly, I'd say it moreso depends on whether or not Sakurai wants to do so. This is a sentiment that I share with a lot of people.

 

[Lyncario]

Oh god, imagine what Vishera would do with that.
Pyramid Head But His Attacks Are Instant - Immediately shoots you up to 999% in seconds
Pyramid Head But His Knockback Scales To His Damage - Sends you flying with just a jab
Pyramid Head But He Can Actually Kill - You plain %$#@ing lose

Actually, let's make a game out of that. Spin the most cursed VisheraGames mods out of your most wanted characters and see what happens.

Reimu but she's canonicaly accurate (aka turbo mode but just on her projectiles)
Demi-Fiend except he's canonicaly accurate (almost nothing is able to even hurt him, and he deals over 999% and max knockback with every moves)
Sora but his keyblade is masamune

 

[SharkLord]

Nintendo says 'major contributions' to their sales came from Pokemon and Smash Bros. DLC

‘Major contributions came from the second round of add-on content’ Seeing Nintendo get involved with DLC was weird (the same...

www.destructoid.com

Anyone post this? How more likely do you guys think a Pass 3, Echo Pass, or post-Pass 2 individual DLC is now?

I still think no. He clearly stated that FP2 is it in his interview. Not "Nothing is planned at the moment" or "I'm not sure," he pretty clearly stated "After FP2 finishes, it's the end." That's a direct statement from the director, and that sounds like a pretty solid no to me.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Personally I doubt we're getting a pass 3. The game will already be 3 years old and while the second pass probably sold well, it probably sold less than the first, and I'm not sure if Nintendo would really want to go with a third pass.

 

[Golden Icarus]

Yeah, we linked that earlier. We COULD in theory get a third pass, but that depends if Sakurai’s willing to play ball too.

I honestly think that Sakurai's willingness to play ball only kind of matters.

If Sakurai doesn't want to hop right into a third pass, then I'm sure Nintendo would be willing to give him a break until he wants to. If Sakurai says that he absolutely is not interested in a 3rd pass whatsoever, then the question becomes whether or not Nintendo is willing to put someone else in charge.

To me, the question goes beyond Sakurai's own interests. If Ultimate remains the tremendous cash cow that it is, then it isn't crazy to imagine Nintendo letting someone else take the reigns while Smash sales are still hot.

Personally I doubt we're getting a pass 3. The game will already be 3 years old and while the second pass probably sold well, it probably sold less than the first, and I'm not sure if Nintendo would really want to go with a third pass.

That's normally gonna happen. Still, Tekken 7, Street Fighter V, Mortal Kombat 11, and Dragon Ball FighterZ all had more than two waves of DLC and none of those games sold as well as Ultimate.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Ganondorf: hits you with a big 'ol sword
You: take a lot of damage and go flying
Pyramid Head: hits you with a big 'ol sword
You: take a lot of damage and go nowhere
You:View attachment 302036

To make matters worse, it would probably be a lot easier to combo with that at high percents.

So it might as well be an official Vishera mod lol.

Oh god, imagine what Vishera would do with that.
Pyramid Head But His Attacks Are Instant - Immediately shoots you up to 999% in seconds
Pyramid Head But His Knockback Scales To His Damage - Sends you flying with just a jab
Pyramid Head But He Can Actually Kill - You plain %$#@ing lose

Actually, let's make a game out of that. Spin the most cursed VisheraGames mods out of your most wanted characters and see what happens.

"Sora, but he can fly indefinitely." -> like in certain KH battles.

"2B, but Pod special attacks are instant."

"(LoL rep), but they actually scale with each stock taken." -> the bane of casual Time matches

"Phoenix Wright, but he can wavedash like in UMvC3." -> you will know true terror

 

[SKX31]

Oh god, imagine what Vishera would do with that.
Pyramid Head But His Attacks Are Instant - Immediately shoots you up to 999% in seconds
Pyramid Head But His Knockback Scales To His Damage - Sends you flying with just a jab
Pyramid Head But He Can Actually Kill - You plain %$#@ing lose

Actually, let's make a game out of that. Spin the most cursed VisheraGames mods out of your most wanted characters and see what happens.

Oh ****ing hell. Dota 2 already has the DOTA IMBA map / mod, which asks what would happen if the playable characters were buffed in 100 straight patches. Some of those have those 4 sec AoE stuns in base Dota 2 mind.

That's a perfect Vishera mod. right there, because, well...

Lets say that DOTA IMBA makes a game that's already really difficult to comprehend for newcomers near-impossible:

[The player is playing as Storm Spirit, whose signature ability Ball Lightning is the electric thing jumping around. The move converts mana into an invurnerable ball of electricity that deals damage based on how much its traveled and consumes a % of the mana in the process. A late game upgrade - in base - also leaves static remnants that deal additional electric damage. And all that is base game stuff, without taking IMBA's "balancing" into account.]

Personally I doubt we're getting a pass 3. The game will already be 3 years old and while the second pass probably sold well, it probably sold less than the first, and I'm not sure if Nintendo would really want to go with a third pass.

It's not uncommon in today's gaming industry to have games go into Year 5 / 6 or even beyond that because they can keep a sizeable chunk if not the majority playing (Tekken 7 is a good example) but Nintendo doesn't do it at large. Probably because it is kinda anathema to the ideal of innovation that's so widespread within the company.

[As for my personal opinion on Pass 3 - that only happens if Sakurai goes back on his word, and really, that would only happen if he changes his mind. Not betting on it.]

 

[ARandomFruit]

Oh god, imagine what Vishera would do with that.
Pyramid Head But His Attacks Are Instant - Immediately shoots you up to 999% in seconds
Pyramid Head But His Knockback Scales To His Damage - Sends you flying with just a jab
Pyramid Head But He Can Actually Kill - You plain %$#@ing lose

Actually, let's make a game out of that. Spin the most cursed VisheraGames mods out of your most wanted characters and see what happens.

Reimu but all her projectiles are Warlock Punch.
Agumon but he is the size of Giga Bowser.
Laharl but his damage is game accurate.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

"Phoenix Wright, but he can wavedash like in UMvC3." -> you will know true terror

Doesn't he have the suckiest wavedash?

 

[3BitSaurus]

Oh ****ing hell. Dota 2 already has the DOTA IMBA map / mod, which asks what would happen if the playable characters were buffed in 100 straight patches. Some of those have those 4 sec AoE stuns in base Dota 2 mind.

That's a perfect Vishera mod. right there, because, well...

Lets say that DOTA IMBA makes a game that's already really difficult to comprehend for newcomers near-impossible:

I'd say it's kind of a MOBA tradition by this point. League also has Ultra Rapid Fire, which is pretty similar.

Though I think making ANY character's specials instant would be cursed, not just MOBA ones.

Doesn't he have the suckiest wavedash?

The point was less about how good it was, and more about how he looks while doing it.

Though, in a game where no one wavedashes, a sucky wavedash would still be king, I reckon.

 

[7NATOR]

Is it possible they might want to Save new Smash content for the Super Switch?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Is it possible they might want to Save new Smash content for the Super Switch?

Maybe? It would be a turn off for some who already have the vanilla game though

on the other hand, MORE CONTENT IS ALWAYS GOOD. I’ll happily splurge

plus maybe some content would only work on the super switch

 

[Golden Icarus]

Is it possible they might want to Save new Smash content for the Super Switch?

That sounds possible. It would be funny considering the whole reason Sm4sh DLC ended was because of the Wii U 2.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

That sounds possible. It would be funny considering the whole reason Sm4sh DLC ended was because of the Wii U 2.

I know you meant Switch but Wii U 2 I’m dead lmao

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Is it possible they might want to Save new Smash content for the Super Switch?

I would be livid.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

If no Pass 3, Echo Pass or post-Pass 2 individual DLC.

What do you guys think of the chances we could get a Deluxe Edition of Ultimate? More additional characters, stages, music, modes, and such?

 

[Perkilator]

If no Pass 3, Echo Pass or post-Pass 2 individual DLC.

What do you guys think of the chances we could get a Deluxe Edition of Ultimate? More additional characters, stages, music, modes, and such?

Again, depends on whether or not Sakurai wants to do it.

 

[Ivander]

What do you guys think of the chances we could get a Deluxe Edition of Ultimate? More additional characters, stages, music, modes, and such?

We can't really find out until the next system is out. We know there will be another Smash Bros. for the next system. The real question is whether they will go the Deluxe/Constant Update route or a completely different game. It depends on what Nintendo and Sakurai want to do.

 

[7NATOR]

Maybe? It would be a turn off for some who already have the vanilla game though

on the other hand, MORE CONTENT IS ALWAYS GOOD. I’ll happily splurge

plus maybe some content would only work on the super switch

Well to be honest, How I Envisioned it was that

The Smash game for the Super Switch might be some type of Expansion of Ultimate. It be a Full Game on the Super Switch, and comes with all the DLC from Regular Ultimate as well as the expanded content

But Perhaps they could make the Expansion DLC for Regular Ultimate, so the existing player base could buy that as well.

I think an Expansion would be Much more interesting than a Fighter Pass 3, since an expansion not only implies more Characters and Stages, but perhaps stuff like Additional Single Player Modes (which Ultimate Really needs), Perhaps more gameplay options like Air dashing and return of mechanics like Shield Dropping and Good wavedashing, Assist Trophies for the Franchises introduced through DLC, and Pokeballs from Generation 8.

I find it weird that Smash Ultimate is really the only current game that hasn't added any Substansial Gameplay changes. Street Fighter, Tekken, DB FighterZ, Mortal Kombat, even Soul Calibur has added some Big changes to the gameplay.

On content that might only work on Super Switch, I don't think it be anything that's very drastic. Perhaps there could be more than 8 Costumes if the 8 Costume limit is a because of the Switch being underpowered...but it should be more powerful than the Wii U and 3DS which had more than 8 costumes for some characters. There's also perhaps more capacity for more than 8 Players, but I'm unsure if that would be attempted for now

 

[SKX31]

I'd say it's kind of a MOBA tradition by this point. League also has Ultra Rapid Fire, which is pretty similar.

Though I think making ANY character's specials instant would be cursed, not just MOBA ones.

Smash should absolutely have such a side mode though. Where Link's Bombs now also act as Deku Nuts and have other effects stacked on top for starters. Thinking something like Brawl Minus. Or even dumber, Project Minus:

If no Pass 3, Echo Pass or post-Pass 2 individual DLC.

What do you guys think of the chances we could get a Deluxe Edition of Ultimate? More additional characters, stages, music, modes, and such?

I find that extremely tough to call. On one hand, Furukawa and Nintendo's other execs might find it way more economical to just go with an Ultimate DX and gamble on giving it a further lifespan a la MK8 DX, effectively making one Smash game the premier title for two consoles without having to commit resources on developing a Smash 6. On the other, I feel they'd need to convince Sakurai to do it - which would be possible if Sakurai gets to take an extended vacation or whatever between Ultimate and Ultimate DX. It would also depend on how the third party rights etc. shake out...

And: after the #FixUltimateOnline uproar the competitive fanbase at large would shout out loud for substantial improvements to Ultimate's netcode, probably even rollback.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

And I know that after the #FixUltimateOnline uproar the competitive fanbase at large would shout out loud for substantial improvements to Ultimate's netcode, perhaps even rollback.

And that could take extensive work by itself. What people say about rollback in particular is that it's way harder to implement in a game that isn't designed for it from the ground up.

 

[7NATOR]

And that could take extensive work by itself. What people say about rollback in particular is that it's way harder to implement in a game that isn't designed for it from the ground up.

Plus they are gonna have to figure out how to Incorporate it into a Game like Smash, as Sakurai did state that he looked into it, but That because of the fact that Smash allows 4 players, could have the capacity for Items and stage hazards, and all of that, it would be really hard to Implement

I think even Slippi only really has Rollback for 1v1's if I'm not mistaken, though they may have added the option

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Plus they are gonna have to figure out how to Incorporate it into a Game like Smash, as Sakurai did state that he looked into it, but That because of the fact that Smash allows 4 players, could have the capacity for Items and stage hazards, and all of that, it would be really hard to Implement

I think even Slippi only really has Rollback for 1v1's if I'm not mistaken, though they may have added the option

Let’s see how that new network technology improves things, if at all

yes I KNOW both Smash and Splatoon 2 use P2P. Still, worth examining the effects even if they’re slight

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

Plus they are gonna have to figure out how to Incorporate it into a Game like Smash, as Sakurai did state that he looked into it, but That because of the fact that Smash allows 4 players, could have the capacity for Items and stage hazards, and all of that, it would be really hard to Implement

I think even Slippi only really has Rollback for 1v1's if I'm not mistaken, though they may have added the option

There's a game being made called Rushdown Revolt that's a Smash clone and it has 4 player rollback, so the tech exists for that part of it. Items are probably where the problems start happening.

If anyone's curious, some people bought out Icons and are using the assets so they don't have to make the game from scratch. They gutted the mechanics to change the gameplay and the new game plays sort of like if Smash had roman cancels from Guilty Gear. I think it's in Alpha right now.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Smash should absolutely have such a side mode though. Where Link's Bombs now also act as Deku Nuts and have other effects stacked on top for starters. Thinking something like Brawl Minus. Or even dumber, Project Minus:

So basically... Vishera Mode?

On a side note, you reminded me of Ike Climbers. Man, THAT was something.

 

[Wigglerman]

Quiet frankly I'm all for keeping the DLC coming if Sakurai and co are willing and able to keep doing so. Make Ultimate the absolute best entry it can in terms of roster. Though I'd very much love for them to focus on more stages outside of just the ones with the additional characters to the point that ALL prior stages have been added. I'd also love more modes and even add more items from prior games as well as new ones just to open up the possibility for more chaos in the times I do want to play with items on.

Yet the less selfish side of me would like Sakurai and co to have a proper break after all they've been doing. If it means content is paced out more in between 'Passes' then I'd still be okay with that as well.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I mean, me personally I always thought it was a little foolish to believe that Smash Ultimate was just going to end after this pass. Now whether that meant another pass or this being the last pass until an inevitable Ultimate Deluxe really doesn't matter. And I don't feel like this news really changes my opinion at all.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Quiet frankly I'm all for keeping the DLC coming if Sakurai and co are willing and able to keep doing so. Make Ultimate the absolute best entry it can in terms of roster. Though I'd very much love for them to focus on more stages outside of just the ones with the additional characters to the point that ALL prior stages have been added. I'd also love more modes and even add more items from prior games as well as new ones just to open up the possibility for more chaos in the times I do want to play with items on.

Yet the less selfish side of me would like Sakurai and co to have a proper break after all they've been doing. If it means content is paced out more in between 'Passes' then I'd still be okay with that as well.

I am legit curious. When it came to other fighting games with more than one pass, did they take little breaks in between?

also you’ve literally got Skullgirls resuming DLC suddenly after FIVE YEARS but that seems to be the exception since Skullgirls is a multi platform indie fighting game

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

Actually, let's make a game out of that. Spin the most cursed VisheraGames mods out of your most wanted characters and see what happens.

Beat but his style is so great that anyone who sees him instantly dies
NiGHTS but he can actually fly
Chell but with 300 portal types
Bass but Treble Adaptor is 'buffed'
Metal Sonic but teleports behind you I know exactly what you're going to do
Grey Fox but competent

 

[Wigglerman]

I am legit curious. When it came to other fighting games with more than one pass, did they take little breaks in between?

also you’ve literally got Skullgirls resuming DLC suddenly after FIVE YEARS but that seems to be the exception since Skullgirls is a multi platform indie fighting game

I don't think so. SF5 for example has been doing a full pass per year since release. I believe DBFighterz also has gotten the same treatment but with smaller passes. Though to give credit to Sakurai and co, their passes seem to have a lot more effort put into them considering the stages have function over just being a background. I know some of the stages (In SF5 for example) have moving back ground elements or whatever but nothing that really influences the game (Such as moving platforms/hazards).

I think a lot of my empathy for Sakurai is truly his work ethic and how genuinely devoted he is to this franchise. Regardless of overall opinions on specific installments I always believe Sakurai really is giving 150% or more with each game. Would hate for him to burn out and lose his passion/drive because he and his team are under never ending work orders to make more content. On the business side, I know that any large delay in content would be losing out on the hype train and when people are given more time in between major content updates they might be less interested to buy. Keep player engagement up as much as possible.