Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[SKX31]

Sometimes I feel like our version of "iconic" is a little out of whack.

It seems odd that Dante, 2B, and Lloyd (not to knock these characters, they're still very cool) are all considered iconic because they're the main character in franchises that have about 20 million copies sold but characters like Waluigi and Knuckles, supporting characters in franchises with 716 million and 140 copies sold, are not.

Regardless of whether one treats "icon" status as a prerequisite for Smash, you still end up with the unsolvable predicament of trying to quantify something so subjective. No amount of discussion of sales data, adaptations, cross-references, or cultural allusions will ever leave everyone with a satisfactory answer. One person's icon is another person's "literally who?" and no attempt at definition will resolve that.

I should also note that the question of "which video game characters are iconic?" is going to be tied to the specific groups and regions. Even between Nintendo fans things can differ wildly: a Nintendo fan in Japan might be more inclined to consider Marth iconic to the Fire Emblem franchise, while an American / European Nintendo fan might lean towards considering Samus iconic due to Super Metroid / Metroid Prime. Outside of those groups, an American casual might not see say Sakura of Sakura Wars fame as iconic in the slightest - but chances are pretty good that a Japanese casual would.

Things get even more seemingly out of whack once regions outside of JP / NA / EU are taken into account. South Korea is a well-noted StarCraft, LoL and Tekken hotspot - to the point where the former two have been massive TV draws. A person from South Korea might argue that say the Protoss "YOU MUST CONSTRUCT ADDITIONAL PYLONS" is more iconic than Link and not be wrong within the Korean context. South Korea is practically next-door-neighbor to Japan, by the by. And so on with other countries / regions (I could draw a similar parralel with the differences between how Western European and Russian gamers might view the iconic debate etc.).

Which is assumably one reason why Sakurai stated the whole "Sakurai said it's not just important that they're recognizable, it's important that they bring something to the game". And really, I don't blame him.

 

[Idon]

Dante is more than an Icon.
He's a meme.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So, I haven't really been on since.... well a long time.

Did I miss anything important in two weeks?

 

[SharkLord]

So, I haven't really been on since.... well a long time.

Did I miss anything important in two weeks?

Nope. Things have been slowing down lately.

 

[Pillow]

So, I haven't really been on since.... well a long time.

Did I miss anything important in two weeks?

There was a very profound discourse on the criticism of anthropomorphic animals sharing a universe with humans.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Nope. Things have been slowing down lately.

Well there was that one day, which was certainly...a day.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Dante is more than an Icon.
He's a meme.
View attachment 301267

Knuckles too.

 

[Deleted member]

Did someone say that Waluigi isn't iconic?

I'll say it.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

I'll say it.

bottom text

 

[SneakyLink]

Surprise! We got another anniversary in the POTD on a weekend:

2008年のきょう『大乱闘スマッシュブラザーズX』発売!!
『スマブラ』って、毎作がターニングポイントのような気がします。 pic.twitter.com/Id7hyCVD5u

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) January 31, 2021

I wonder what speculation was like in the Brawl era?

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Man, I need something Smash Bros. to happen. Like Sephiroth was great and I still love him but WOW this speculation cycle after him has been slow slow slow.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Man, I need something Smash Bros. to happen. Like Sephiroth was great and I still love him but WOW this speculation cycle after him has been slow slow slow.

Wah! Too bad! Another month time!

 

[Otoad64]

Surprise! We got another anniversary in the POTD on a weekend:

2008年のきょう『大乱闘スマッシュブラザーズX』発売!!
『スマブラ』って、毎作がターニングポイントのような気がします。 pic.twitter.com/Id7hyCVD5u

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) January 31, 2021

I wonder what speculation was like in the Brawl era?

this just makes me want subspace hd tbh

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Surprise! We got another anniversary in the POTD on a weekend:

2008年のきょう『大乱闘スマッシュブラザーズX』発売!!
『スマブラ』って、毎作がターニングポイントのような気がします。 pic.twitter.com/Id7hyCVD5u

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) January 31, 2021

I wonder what speculation was like in the Brawl era?

Google Translate:

2008 "Super Smash Bros. Smash Bros. X" released today !! I feel that each work of "Smash Bros." is a turning point.

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

Man, I need something Smash Bros. to happen. Like Sephiroth was great and I still love him but WOW this speculation cycle after him has been slow slow slow.

I think it's because not much has consistently surfaced to talk about. Although tons of leaks seem to have mentioned Steve and Sephiroth, there's nothing else proving each of those "leaker's" credibility. I think the most credible of those leaks is probably the Chun-Leak but it's also the only leak that doesn't really outright confirm a character, just lets us know who got the shaft from base game with implications of them returning.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I’m personally inclined to believe the KOS-MOS/Reimu/Crash leak since it said no mii costumes from 4 would be promoted to playable in DLC. Look at Geno, I fully expect Lloyd’s to come back at this point

part of me hopes for a curveball and their name starts with an E...

also curious wording here: “not exactly Sony reps, but Sephiroth and Crash are coming” like the leaker knew ppl were expecting Sony reps

 

[Mushroomguy12]

this just makes me want subspace hd tbh

I find it interesting that he went to the trouble of getting Peach and Zelda trapped in those cages to reflect the first level of Subspace, but then forgot that it was only Kirby who fought Petey Piranha the first time around since Mario got launched into space.

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

I’m personally inclined to believe the KOS-MOS/Reimu/Crash leak since it said no mii costumes from 4 would be promoted to playable in DLC. Look at Geno, I fully expect Lloyd’s to come back at this point

part of me hopes for a curveball and their name starts with an E...

Interesting. I expect all returning Miis to come back too although I still think we're getting a Tales fighter, just Yuri from Vesperia. It's a fighter that the Lloyd costume is more than perfect returning with and it would explain why the other Namco costumes have been spread out instead of being held for a Namco character. Yeah and Monster Hunter probably is coming back costumed and uh... the red shell too maybe? It fits tbh, Lloyd, the MonHun costumes and the Red Shell can all return spread out through the last 3 fighters.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Oh yes, of course, how could I pass up the excuse to post the best main theme in the series here?

 

[Icedragonadam]

Well a certain a Genghis Khan is trending on Gamefaqs. The one about the Tales of Chun-Li rumor he's skeptical about(although the context here is kind of vague). I might as well add something that makes his statement even more worthless to the validity of the rumor and this is common with the leaks of past games.

It's the fact that leakers only have a few pages of information. If you remember Brawl's gamefaqs leakers, they only had partial information of the whole thing. They had overlapping information but they each had different tidbits. In other words they had different sources that knew some stuff other sources didn't. Same with 4's playtesting builds that all had different characters being playtested as Vaanrose said. Gematsu also had several characters that were missing from their list(Robin, Lucina, Dark Pit, Bowser. Jr and Duck Hunt). Vergeben's ultimate base roster list didn't have K. Rool, Daisy, Richter, D. Samus, and Chrom on it.

And so far, only Vergeben has heard that Koei was in Talks with Nintendo. There's IamShifty who heard Ryu as well but he didn't say if his source heard the Koei talks as well.

In otherwords an insider doesn't know all of the development details from their source and that the sources will in fact have different information that they don't know about from the other source which has happened with the past games. It's plausible for the development rumors to be true and Imran not hearing about Chun-Li and Lloyd or Yuri being planned.

Thank you for listening to my TED talk. Now back to the boring waiting game.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I’m personally inclined to believe the KOS-MOS/Reimu/Crash leak since it said no mii costumes from 4 would be promoted to playable in DLC. Look at Geno, I fully expect Lloyd’s to come back at this point

part of me hopes for a curveball and their name starts with an E...

also curious wording here: “not exactly Sony reps, but Sephiroth and Crash are coming” like the leaker knew ppl were expecting Sony reps

I'll be satisfied with that.

Two more female characters and Crash, one of my most current wants. A good way to go.

 

[Guynamednelson]

part of me hopes for a curveball and their name starts with an E...

Me too

 

[Perkilator]

part of me hopes for a curveball and their name starts with an E...

In which case, I fully support this master plan!

 

[SharkLord]

I’m personally inclined to believe the KOS-MOS/Reimu/Crash leak since it said no mii costumes from 4 would be promoted to playable in DLC. Look at Geno, I fully expect Lloyd’s to come back at this point

part of me hopes for a curveball and their name starts with an E...

also curious wording here: “not exactly Sony reps, but Sephiroth and Crash are coming” like the leaker knew ppl were expecting Sony reps

That's not a really bold statement, honestly. Half of everyone has been calling "No promoted Smash 4 Miis" since Gil came back with Steve, and I'd assume some were drawing conclusions as far back as Heihachi. It doesn't make it any more credible than any other rumor.

 

[chocolatejr9]

That's not a really bold statement, honestly. Half of everyone has been calling "No promoted Smash 4 Miis" since Gil came back with Steve, and I'd assume some were drawing conclusions as far back as Heihachi. It doesn't make it any more credible than any other rumor.

Yeah, I gotta agree with this. Sorry Lloyd and Monster Hunter, but I don't see either of you happening.

 

[cashregister9]

part of me hopes for a curveball and their name starts with an E...

it's high quality mandatory text

 

[Michael the Spikester]

This leads to an interesting question.

What are everyone's thoughts? Do you guys think all Sm4sh's Miis are bound to return or do you think Monster Hunter and Lloyd or just one of them will be promoted as a playable character?

 

[Commander_Alph]

I would inclined that I would be more happy if there's no promotion for assist and mii cost in this Pass since I'm just happy to see a new face show up in the game. And for MH and Lloyd being promoted as a fighter that just felt like a lucid dream, we already got plenty of good candidate to be promoted like Heihachi and Geno but they just pass them off especially Geno who literally takes the spotlight more than Lloyd before his actual demise by Sephiroth.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I would inclined that I would be more happy if there's no promotion for assist and mii cost in this Pass since I'm just happy to see a new face show up in the game.

Eh, you're getting new movesets either way. Doesn't matter if they were already represented or not. Remember, Smash isn't a list of video game characters, it's a game.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

This leads to an interesting question.

What are everyone's thoughts? Do you guys think all Sm4sh's Miis are bound to return or do you think Monster Hunter and Lloyd or just one of them will be promoted as a playable character?

I don't think it's calculable. Lloyd's costume could come back, or it could not and Lloyd himself could come. And then the Monster Hunter could come with or without its costumes since theirs are amour sets rather than the actual characters.

EDIT EDIT: To clarify, I don't think Monster Hunter is a lock. That's just poor wording on my part. I just mean there are more possibilities than there are with Lloyd.

I would inclined that I would be more happy if there's no promotion for assist and mii cost in this Pass since I'm just happy to see a new face show up in the game.

Well technically the face is the one thing that doesn't show up.

EDIT: Unless you're Sans, Cuphead, or Vault Boy.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

This leads to an interesting question.

What are everyone's thoughts? Do you guys think all Sm4sh's Miis are bound to return or do you think Monster Hunter and Lloyd or just one of them will be promoted as a playable character?

It could go either way tbh.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Unless you're Sans, Cuphead, or Vault Boy.

This is Bomberman erasure.

 

[Commander_Alph]

Eh, you're getting new movesets either way. Doesn't matter if they were already represented or not. Remember, Smash isn't a list of video game characters, it's a game.

Yeah, it's a game but it's just my opinion because I'm the type of person who like to discover new things. Yuri is probably the only certified character that I could see if they want to add Tales because I'm inclined that he's probably sidelined a lot and even if he always group together with Lloyd in speculation people see him as a "second best choice" and put high expectations to Lloyd which makes a good surprise to see him show up.

 

[Otoad64]

This leads to an interesting question.

What are everyone's thoughts? Do you guys think all Sm4sh's Miis are bound to return or do you think Monster Hunter and Lloyd or just one of them will be promoted as a playable character?

ever since Geno got Mii'd i've been leaning towards all Mii costumes returning, not just because he wasn't a fighter, but because it was largely unmodified.

just seems like Nintendo wants to bring them all back, just for an easy profit.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Yeah, it's a game but it's just my opinion because I'm the type of person who like to discover new things. Yuri is probably the only certified character that I could see if they want to add Tales because I'm inclined that he's probably sidelined a lot and even if he always group together with Lloyd in speculation people see him as a "second best choice" and put high expectations to Lloyd which makes a good surprise to see him show up.

If that were the case, wouldn't you rather see characters you haven't seen at all before? EDIT: Genuine question. Not meant to be antagonistic.

Also, I don't think Yuri is seen as the second best choice so much as "the one that I don't want because I want Lloyd". The inverse is also true, which can cause Yuri/Lloyd discussions to be kinda tiring.

 

[Commander_Alph]

I mean counting how many Mii costume we have on the DLC some costume wave is dominated returning costume.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I'm the type of person who like to discover new things

I like some of that too, I've gotten into Dragon Quest plenty thanks to all the Erdrick rumors, but I also like having some familiar things mixed in too.

 

[Commander_Alph]

If that were the case, wouldn't you rather see characters you haven't seen at all before?

That could work, I mean I like to be introduced to and introduce a new series that hasn't yet been in Smash other than one piece of costume. It's just that I'm the one that wants diversity, from slums to fame.

I like some of that too, I've gotten into Dragon Quest plenty thanks to all the Erdrick rumors, but I also like having some familiar things mixed in too.​

From me that usually works only to my Most Wanted which are all not a popular candidate but I'm still hype regardless of who. I don't really like to keep a grudge on a fictional video game character who took the spot intended for my fictional video game character that I like.

 

[Icedragonadam]

If that were the case, wouldn't you rather see characters you haven't seen at all before? EDIT: Genuine question. Not meant to be antagonistic.

Also, I don't think Yuri is seen as the second best choice so much as "the one that I don't want because I want Lloyd". The inverse is also true, which can cause Yuri/Lloyd discussions to be kinda tiring.

I don't care who gets in, Tales rep is Tales rep!

 

[Pillow]

I’m personally inclined to believe the KOS-MOS/Reimu/Crash leak since it said no mii costumes from 4 would be promoted to playable in DLC. Look at Geno, I fully expect Lloyd’s to come back at this point

part of me hopes for a curveball and their name starts with an E...

also curious wording here: “not exactly Sony reps, but Sephiroth and Crash are coming” like the leaker knew ppl were expecting Sony reps

The leak hasn't guessed anything groundbreaking enough for me to really believe in it. But if Reimu or Kos-Mos is revealed next then I'll be fully on board as both of these characters seem rather unlikely to me.

This leads to an interesting question.

What are everyone's thoughts? Do you guys think all Sm4sh's Miis are bound to return or do you think Monster Hunter and Lloyd or just one of them will be promoted as a playable character?

They all seem likely to return unless they are coming as characters. Because why wouldn't they? As for either Monster Hunter or Lloyd becoming playable I'd say both have....okay chances. MH is a hot series right now, but their opportunity to come was alongside Rathalos to me. Tales is still a popular and relevant series, and of course Bamco is the company developing Smash, but he does face competition with Yuri, and I also can't help shake the feeling that Sakurai might be done with classic fantasy JRPG protagonists right now.