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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

ahemtoday

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I still think they should be able to yoink items from their opponents via some sort of command grab, be it an actual in-game item that they're holding like the Beam Sword, an item that they have a lot of like Sheik's needles, or an item that it would make sense for them to have but they don't actually use like Captain Falcon's gun.
I like this idea because now not only does the GTA character bring fun little touches from GTA, they also bring fun little touches from every other series in Smash as well. You could steal a Fire Flower from Mario, or like... a gigantic trident from Ganondorf.
 
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Pillow

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lol I think they could find a way to vocalize in character without them swearing. Though the idea of a character who curses every single time they're hit is pretty funny.
I'm sure they could, but censoring the GTA franchise specifically would trigger so many people given the series history with censorship. I'd argue the essence of the series itself is the over the top mature content (swearing, sex, drugs, gangs, guns). It's not the same as giving Bayonetta and Palutena more clothes. Though I suppose I just can't see GTA content being in Smash in any shape or form regardless, so the point is kind of moot. It's like combining the issues of Mai (too lewd), Doomslayer (too violent, too western), and Lara Croft (boring moveset) onto a character(s) that's far less iconic than each of them.
 
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7NATOR

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To be honest, I also think Rockstar would actually be one of the few companies that either wouldn't give a hoot about Smash, or would actively not want to be in it

I personally think a Sony character would be more likely than a Rockstar character
 

Pillow

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To be honest, I also think Rockstar would actually be one of the few companies that either wouldn't give a hoot about Smash, or would actively not want to be in it

I personally think a Sony character would be more likely than a Rockstar character
Isn't that because a Sony character is just likely in general? :V
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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I like this idea because now not only does the GTA character bring fun little touches from GTA, they also bring fun little touches from every other series in Smash as well. You could steal a Fire Flower from Mario, or like... a gigantic trident from Ganondorf.
That's a good point. It'd kind of be like a slightly lesser form of Kirby (since I don't think they'd make every single character yield a different item) where seeing all of the stuff you can steal is a treat. Cloud and Sephiroth could yield Materia, which is both a neat reference to the magic system of Final Fantasy VII and a wacky scenario where a GTA character can now cast a spell.

I'm sure they could, but censoring the GTA franchise specifically would trigger so many people given the series history with censorship. I'd argue the essence of the series itself is the over the top mature content (swearing, sex, drugs, gangs, guns). It's not the same as giving Bayonetta and Palutena more clothes.
Well, I may not be all that well versed in the series, but I personally don't really see the issue of removing swearing from the dialogue so long as it still feels natural for the character. They can still speak in a crude manner otherwise, which would set them apart from the rest of the (generally) well-mannered cast. The drugs aspect is probably the biggest to omit, but I think you can still get across that the character is not a role model through other means. The guns are likely very necessary, but they might even be OK. It's a bit unclear how they affect the age rating, but it does seem to at least be much better than it was even in the previous game. The gang and the crime stuff would probably be the major focus, both within the character's moveset, and the stage. I think they could add it without much difficulty so long as the crimes don't get too heinous.

As for the sex, it doesn't even make sense in this context because it's all fighting. They also don't strike me as characters that would be into most of the roster, even the females. Of all the things to omit I think this would be the least offensive to fans.

It's like combining the issues of Mai (too lewd), Doomslayer (too violent, too western), and Lara Croft (boring moveset) onto a character(s) that's far less iconic than each of them.
You mean too western in appeal? That might be fair, but I don't think simply being owned by a western company is as big of a barrier to entry as people think.

Lara Croft's moveset wouldn't be inherently boring. In fact, her fighting style is pretty distinct from other characters, even other shooting based ones, and that's not even taking her reboot stuff into account. She may not be overly flashy, but there's no way that there's not enough interesting material for her to have a fun and unique moveset.
 

Guynamednelson

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Yes, Lamar is confirmed. He roasts the opponents in his final smash.
"Ah, man, don't hate me because I'm beautiful, man. Maybe if you got rid of that old yee-yee-butt haircut you'd get some female acquaintances. Oh, better yet, maybe Tanisha will call you if she ever stops spending time with that brain surgeon or lawyer she's spending time with. Maaaaaannn...."
 

SNEKeater

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I'd agree Majima is a must if Yakuza comes to smash, but he could definitely be a stage hazard or just part of Kiryu's moveset instead of an AT.
Majima as part of Kiryu's moveset wouldn't make sense at all. And it wouldn't happen. I would happily bet money on that if Kiryu gets in, that's how sure I am about it.

Also because Kiryu... fights by himself. He's no Pokémon Trainer or anything like that. And while Majima is popular and important, he isn't that important to make Sakurai question himself "well, even if it's not faithful to Yakuza games, I'll add him to Kiryu's moveset".

Like I love Majima but throwing him in Kiryu's moveset because yes would be a bad move.
 
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Perkilator

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Honestly, I think the Pokémon Trainer has desensitized us into the idea that characters who help multiple characters would get in Smash as a Pokémon Trainer-esque character. I hated it with Terry and I hated it with Byleth.

Honestly? That kinda makes me wish Charizard got in solo in Brawl onwards.
 

Pillow

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Well, I may not be all that well versed in the series, but I personally don't really see the issue of removing swearing from the dialogue so long as it still feels natural for the character. They can still speak in a crude manner otherwise, which would set them apart from the rest of the (generally) well-mannered cast. The drugs aspect is probably the biggest to omit, but I think you can still get across that the character is not a role model through other means. The guns are likely very necessary, but they might even be OK. It's a bit unclear how they affect the age rating, but it does seem to at least be much better than it was even in the previous game. The gang and the crime stuff would probably be the major focus, both within the character's moveset, and the stage. I think they could add it without much difficulty so long as the crimes don't get too heinous.

As for the sex, it doesn't even make sense in this context because it's all fighting. They also don't strike me as characters that would be into most of the roster, even the females. Of all the things to omit I think this would be the least offensive to fans.
You're correct on all fronts here, I was mostly claiming that GTA as a series is just way too at odds with Smash. The main draw of the game is just driving around, breaking laws, and ****ing **** up. Stuff like drugs and sex would never appear in a moveset anyway, but what about something like the stage? In all honesty, if they were going for a stage that most represents the series as a whole then the answer would probably be...a strip club. GTA is definitely a series with clout, it's just not the type of clout that Nintendo would be looking to include in Smash.

Of course, I've been wrong about this kind of thing before. While I definitely think that GTA would feel far too out of place in smash, I thought the same of Snake when he was first added to Brawl. I absolutely hated the inclusion and felt he looked so strange next to all these cartoony Nintendo characters. He would eventually become one of my favorite inclusions, and now the reason I love smash so much is I can see all sorts of characters stand on the same stage and watch gritty army men get their **** kicked in by cute anime animals.


You mean too western in appeal? That might be fair, but I don't think simply being owned by a western company is as big of a barrier to entry as people think.

Lara Croft's moveset wouldn't be inherently boring. In fact, her fighting style is pretty distinct from other characters, even other shooting based ones, and that's not even taking her reboot stuff into account. She may not be overly flashy, but there's no way that there's not enough interesting material for her to have a fun and unique moveset.
Yes I meant western appeal, I don't think GTA is nearly as big in Japan as it is in the west.

I could definitely be wrong about Lara. I have honestly never played a Tomb Raider game, except for the first in the recent remake (which I found rather boring). From what I know she just does the usual gun stuff, along with exploration and parkour, which in my mind doesn't lend itself to an interesting moveset.

Majima as part of Kiryu's moveset wouldn't make sense at all. And it wouldn't happen. I would happily bet money on that if Kiryu gets in, that's how sure I am about it.

Also because Kiryu... fights by himself. He's no Pokémon Trainer or anything like that. And while Majima is popular and important, he isn't that important to make Sakurai question himself "well, even if it's not faithful to Yakuza games, I'll add him to Kiryu's moveset".

Like I love Majima but throwing him in Kiryu's moveset because yes would be a bad move.
Well I never claimed he should be in Kiryu's moveset, just that it's an option. For example, he could pull random objects like Bicycles and traffic cones with down B, like Peach, but sometimes he'll accidentally pull Majima out instead who will slap Kiryu then disappear...or something. I agree that Majima would best fit as an assist trophy, but since none have appeared as DLC so far I was just suggesting alternatives to that possibility.

Honestly, I think the Pokémon Trainer has desensitized us into the idea that characters who help multiple characters would get in Smash as a Pokémon Trainer-esque character. I hated it with Terry and I hated it with Byleth.

Honestly? That kinda makes me wish Charizard got in solo in Brawl onwards.
I know people were tossing around the idea of 3H being represented by the 3 house leaders on rotation, but I'm unfamiliar with the speculation around Terry. Were people thinking it was gonna be like a KOF tag team or something? Realistically, a transforming character will never happen as DLC. It's basically double (or triple, depending on how many transformations) the work for the same profits. Charizard, squirtle, and ivysaur are 3 different characters who happen to share a down B.
 
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Adrianette Bromide

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Honestly, I think the Pokémon Trainer has desensitized us into the idea that characters who help multiple characters would get in Smash as a Pokémon Trainer-esque character. I hated it with Terry and I hated it with Byleth.

Honestly? That kinda makes me wish Charizard got in solo in Brawl onwards.
It's funny since he's the only character who's done it an it's not a recurring pattern. The only characters I can see come close to what Trainer does is either Rex (who could also work if simplified) and a Shin Megami Tensei character (not guaranteed to work like trainer either as evident by Joker). Besides I think something so special should be reserved to one character ro make him, well, special.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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You're correct on all fronts here, I was mostly claiming that GTA as a series is just way too at odds with Smash. The main draw of the game is just driving around, breaking laws, and *ing * up. Stuff like drugs and sex would never appear in a moveset anyway, but what about something like the stage? In all honesty, if they were going for a stage that most represents the series as a whole then the answer would probably be...a strip club.
A random strip club? Wouldn't it be a particularly notable (and specific) location for the sake of recognizability? Also, it's a sandbox game (as far as I know), which have historically gotten stages with high vantage points or even multiple versions so you could see all the various locations that the game has to offer. Perhaps exploration in GTA doesn't matter as much as it does in The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild or Minecraft, but it might be something to keep in mind.

I should state that I don't think the issues are as trivial as I might make them sound, but I do think they can be overcome without losing what makes the series special.

I could definitely be wrong about Lara. I have honestly never played a Tomb Raider game, except for the first in the recent remake (which I found rather boring). From what I know she just does the usual gun stuff, along with exploration and parkour, which in my mind doesn't lend itself to an interesting moveset.
It might not be for everyone, but I think even just the basics we described could make for something that's super fun, especially if it translates to flippy dippy stuff. Flippy dippy stuff is always a win.

Unless it's SSBU Feint Jump. I have no idea how they made such a cool move feel so bad to use.
 

Pillow

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A random strip club? Wouldn't it be a particularly notable (and specific) location for the sake of recognizability? Also, it's a sandbox game (as far as I know), which have historically gotten stages with high vantage points or even multiple versions so you could see all the various locations that the game has to offer. Perhaps exploration in GTA doesn't matter as much as it does in The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild or Minecraft, but it might be something to keep in mind.

I should state that I don't think the issues are as trivial as I might make them sound, but I do think they can be overcome without losing what makes the series special.
Yeah I was just exaggerating to make a point. The stage would definitely be moving around Los Santos...but that should definitely include a strip club!


It might not be for everyone, but I think even just the basics we described could make for something that's super fun, especially if it translates to flippy dippy stuff. Flippy dippy stuff is always a win.

Unless it's SSBU Feint Jump. I have no idea how they made such a cool move feel so bad to use.
I suppose she could just do flippy jumps like ZSS. It's just kind of hard to imagine considering the trend of Sakurai trying to include flashy mechanics or gimmicks with every DLC character. The real question is, would she take her original appearance, remake appearance, or some smash original mashup of the two?
 

Guynamednelson

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but that should definitely include a strip club!
Change it to a Burger Shot and hope no one at Nintendo knows it's a term for a close up of a vagina.

In fact a lot of the fake brands made for GTA involve crude jokes. Cherry Popper Ice Cream, Biglogs, Pro Laps, Whiz...
 
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True Blue Warrior

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I suppose she could just do flippy jumps like ZSS. It's just kind of hard to imagine considering the trend of Sakurai trying to include flashy mechanics or gimmicks with every DLC character. The real question is, would she take her original appearance, remake appearance, or some smash original mashup of the two?
Considering the trends with third-party characters like :ultpacman::ultsimon::ultbanjokazooie:, Lara will be based off her more iconic look. Her Tomb Raider Anniversary design seems like a likely indicator of what she would look like in Smash.
 
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The Stoopid Unikorn

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If we got Tekken, why wouldn't it be Jin? Even though Heihachi is more recognizable, he's the antagonist (mostly) isn't he?
Heihachi was considered for Smash 4, but Pac-Man ultimately took his spot because Sakurai thought implimenting a Tekken moveset might've been too difficult... and also because it's freaking Pac-Man.

So the "protagonist first" fanrule never had much of a ground to stand in considering there's always been an instance of Sakurai considering the opposite.

I think the true rule is that the first character of a series has to be one of the most notable one, whether it's plot relevance, marketing or just good ol' popularity. Main protagonists just happen to be checking all the boxes, so they're often the most convenient choice.

Or Yoshimitsu.

Who would not just cover Tekken but Soulcalibur as well.
I've never understood that logic considering there's no connection between the two franchises aside from both having a sword guy called Yoshimitsu.

He's nowhere near the best choice for either franchise either, considering Tekken has the Mishima family and Soul has Siegfried/Nightmare, so it really gives me the same energy of the whole grass-type mania we've had ever since the Greninja trailer for Smash 4.
 
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Guynamednelson

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He's nowhere near the best choice for either franchise either, so it really gives me the same energy of the whole grass-type mania we've had ever since the Greninja trailer for Smash 4.
Where were these people when Ryu was leaked and they could've speculated on Final Fight characters who'd rep both SF and FF? That's what gets me the most.
 

Michael the Spikester

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I've never understood that logic considering there's no connection between the two franchises aside from both having a sword guy called Yoshimitsu.
It heavily implied Soulcalibur and Tekken are the same universe just different time periods and both Yoshimitsu's comes from the same clan and lineage.

Especially makes sense as both are Namco.
 
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The Stoopid Unikorn

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Where were these people when Ryu was leaked and they could've speculated on Final Fight characters who'd rep both SF and FF? That's what gets me the most.
Or speculating that Joker would come with SMT references because they share Personas/demons?

The only instance of a DLC character representing multiple franchises is Terry, and even then he's very justified in that aspect because...
  1. He's the mascot of SNK as a whole
  2. King of Fighters basically merged all the SNK IPs into a single alternate world, and even started to actually tackle some plotlines from now-defuncts series, to the point where you can argue that KoF14 is a stealth sequel to Fatal Fury 3 because Geese finally talks about the damn scrolls
Yoshimitsu has neither of those going for him.
 

Sari

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What would your reaction be in the hypothetical scenario where Trevor Philips from GTA5 ended up being a DLC fighter?
I'd be pretty happy to see GTA get some representation though tbh Trevor is definitely on the lower end of my GTA protagonist wants.

CJ > Tommy > Claude > Niko > Michael > Franklin > Trevor > Anyone else​

That's the order I'd prefer in terms of GTA representation.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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It heavily implied Soulcalibur and Tekken are the same universe just different time periods and both Yoshimitsu's comes from the same clan and lineage.

Especially makes sense as both are Namco.
I don't recall any confirmation of this. Heck, with how coveted Soul Edge is, there'd definitely be some mention of it in Tekken if it's the same world.

My theory is a lot simpler; Yoshimitsu debuted in a Tekken game, but they figured he'd fit perfectly in their weapon-based cousin franchise.

It probably is that simple.
 
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ahemtoday

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I know next to nothing about Tekken, but I heard that Heihachi's VA passed away? And, because of that (and possibly also because Heihachi himself died? in T7, making it kind of a retroactive tribute to his VA?) he's not going to be making any major appearances? Biiiig question marks on all of that, by the way, because I'm not sure about any of it.

If that's true, that makes me wonder if Heihachi really is the frontrunner for a Tekken rep anymore.
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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I know next to nothing about Tekken, but I heard that Heihachi's VA passed away? And, because of that (and possibly also because Heihachi himself died? in T7, making it kind of a retroactive tribute to his VA?) he's not going to be making any major appearances? Biiiig question marks on all of that, by the way.

In any case, that makes me wonder if Heihachi really is the frontrunner for a Tekken rep anymore.
It's all speculation (aside from the death). We probably won't know anything concrete until Tekken 8, though it is worth noting that he has made appearances in crossovers after the actor's death albeit with reused voice clips.
 

Pillow

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I don't recall any confirmation of this. Heck, with how coveted Soul Edge is, there'd definitely be some mention of it in Tekken if it's the same world.

My theory is a lot simpler; Yoshimitsu debuted in a Tekken game, but they figured he'd fit perfectly in their weapon-based cousin franchise.

It probably is that simple.
Even if it’s the same Yoshimitsu, it’s still better for Smash inclusions have huge significant rather than high attendance. Terry was the main character for Fatal Fury, Yoshimitsu is a side character in both series he appeared in. If showing up in more games mattered we’d have Anna as a fire emblem rep and Tingle instead of Ganon.
 

ahemtoday

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It's all speculation (aside from the death). We probably won't know anything concrete until Tekken 8, though it is worth noting that he has made appearances in crossovers after the actor's death albeit with reused voice clips.
Ah, if that's true, he probably is still the frontrunner for Smash, then.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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It's all speculation (aside from the death). We probably won't know anything concrete until Tekken 8, though it is worth noting that he has made appearances in crossovers after the actor's death albeit with reused voice clips.
It's also not the first time it happened for Heihachi.

I think that was the third time?
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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Even if it’s the same Yoshimitsu, it’s still better for Smash inclusions have huge significant rather than high attendance. Terry was the main character for Fatal Fury, Yoshimitsu is a side character in both series he appeared in. If showing up in more games mattered we’d have Anna as a fire emblem rep and Tingle instead of Ganon.
Your Ganondorf comparison is a bad example because by the time he was added in Melee, both he and Tingle had showed up in only one game.

Also, I'm pretty sure it's canon in both franchises that it's a name that's passed down, so regardless of whether it's the same world or not, the fact that it's different time periods means it cannot realistically be the same Yoshimitsu. Heck, SCV had a new holder of the title.

Heihachi is the protagonist of Tekken 2.
That's the same kind of logic as saying Mario is an antagonist because of Donkey Kong Jr.

What, his voice actor dying? And, I assume, subsequently getting replaced?
Yep.
 
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True Blue Warrior

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That's the same kind of logic as saying Mario is an antagonist because of Donkey Kong Jr.
But Tekken doesn’t have one consistent protagonist, though. Heihachi is the guy most used frequently as the face of Tekken in crossover titles.

Also, it would be more like saying that Dixie is s protagonist because of Donkey Kong Country 3 which is definitely true.
 
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The Stoopid Unikorn

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But Tekken doesn’t have one consistent protagonist, though.
Jin?

Also, it would be more like saying that Dixie is s protagonist because of Donkey Kong Country 3 which is definitely true.
My example was better since both Heihachi being a protag in Tekken 2 and Mario being the main antag in DK Jr. were one-offs.

Dixie has consistently been on the Kongs' side in any game she showed up.
 
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