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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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Mushroomguy12

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SMAASH! Puppy said:
The Toad Brigade lives!
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NGL, it would be nice for them to put just the slightest touches to make them a little more unique in the future.

 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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Mushroomguy12 said:
NGL, it would be nice for them to put just the slightest touches to make them a little more unique in the future.
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True, but the fact that they're (mostly) back after Captain Toad seemingly left them in the Super Mario Galaxy duology is great, especially since all it would take to make them just simple recolored OCs to fill in the role was to not give the blue one his glasses.

Hopefully future appearances of Captain Toad have the whole brigade hanging out with him as well.
 
Pillow

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The Stoopid Unikorn said:
Your Ganondorf comparison is a bad example because by the time he was added in Melee, both he and Tingle had showed up in only one game.

Also, I'm pretty sure it's canon in both franchises that it's a name that's passed down, so regardless of whether it's the same world or not, the fact that it's different time periods means it cannot realistically be the same Yoshimitsu. Heck, SCV had a new holder of the title.
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I didn't think about the timing of the character inclusion, so that was my bad.

I think many would consider the many incarnations of Yoshimitsu as a singular character even if it's not the same person. When Link shows up in Soul Calibur, nobody stops to think about which Link it is, it's just Link. Yes, I realize Link is a weird example because we technically have 3 links in Smash and each are different people within a singular timeline, but you get the point. Sakurai could just choose any iteration of Yoshimitsu on a whim, like he did with Zelda characters, and go with that. Though yeah, that'd only be done if Yoshimitsu was in fact as significant a character to either SC or Tekken as the Triforce is to LoZ, and he's not.
 
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The Stoopid Unikorn

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Pillow said:
I didn't think about the timing of the character inclusion, so that was my bad.

I think many would consider the many incarnations of Yoshimitsu as a singular character even if it's not the same person. When Link shows up in Soul Calibur, nobody stops to think about which Link it is, it's just Link. Yes, I realize Link is a weird example because we technically have 3 links in Smash and each are different people within a singular timeline, but you get the point. Sakurai could just choose any iteration of Yoshimitsu on a whim, like he did with Zelda characters, and go with that. Though yeah, that'd only be done if Yoshimitsu was in fact as significant a character to either SC or Tekken as the Triforce is to LoZ, and he's not.
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Pretty much this.

In order for Yoshimitsu being a dual-franchise rep to work without feeling forced, he'd need to be significant in at least one of them, which he isn't.

He's just that guy who's very well-liked for having some really weird movesets. That's about where his importance ends.
 
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DarthEnderX

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Pillow said:
I'd agree Majima is a must if Yakuza comes to smash, but he could definitely be a stage hazard or just part of Kiryu's moveset instead of an AT.
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But then he wouldn't be Majima EVERYWHERE!!

Being an AT means he can show up anywhere, at any time.

True Blue Warrior said:
What would your reaction be in the hypothetical scenario where Trevor Philips from GTA5 ended up being a DLC fighter?
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I'd say it should have been Lamar.



The Stoopid Unikorn said:
That's the same kind of logic as saying Mario is an antagonist because of Donkey Kong Jr.
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...he is. Like, in a completely literal sense...
 
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The Stoopid Unikorn

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DarthEnderX said:
...he is. Like, in a completely literal sense...
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Never said he wasn't, just that saying Heihachi can get in without breaking the "protagonist first" mindset (which I'm shocked still exists after Min Min) due to being a protagonist in one of the earlier Tekken games despite being a consistent antagonist is very reaching.

So I compared with Mario being an antagonist in DK Jr. since both were one-off situations.
 
Cosmic77

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cothero

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If a generic Toad was playable in smash, what moveset Sakurai could have implemented? I can't think of anything beside throwing vegetables (and annoyingly screaming "I AM THE BEST" as a taunt), but Peach already do that.

HOWEVER.. If we're talking about what could have been Captain Toad's moveset, that's a whole different story.
 
The Stoopid Unikorn

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cothero said:
If a generic Toad was playable in smash, what moveset Sakurai could have implemented? I can't think of anything beside throwing vegetables (and annoyingly screaming "I AM THE BEST" as a taunt), but Peach already do that.

HOWEVER.. If we're talking about what could have been Captain Toad's moveset, that's a whole different story.
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...Captain Toad also has the vegetable though.
 
SharkLord

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cothero said:
If a generic Toad was playable in smash, what moveset Sakurai could have implemented? I can't think of anything beside throwing vegetables (and annoyingly screaming "I AM THE BEST" as a taunt), but Peach already do that.

HOWEVER.. If we're talking about what could have been Captain Toad's moveset, that's a whole different story.
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Generic Toad be like

Bup

snaps your %$#@ing neck
 
Laniv

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cothero said:
If a generic Toad was playable in smash, what moveset Sakurai could have implemented? I can't think of anything beside throwing vegetables (and annoyingly screaming "I AM THE BEST" as a taunt), but Peach already do that.

HOWEVER.. If we're talking about what could have been Captain Toad's moveset, that's a whole different story.
Click to expand...

Glad you asked! I did write up a Toad moveset over the summer, as a combination of mushroom powers and classic Mario power-ups:

Laniv said:
After all this time, I am happy to present to you...

The Toad Moveset!

Toad is Ready to Party!!

View attachment 277046

At long last, Toad joins the battle! In the Mushroom Kingdom, Toad and his kind could often be found in Toad Houses, giving away power-ups to the Mario Brothers to help them save Princess Peach from the clutches of the wicked Bowser. In the world of Smash, however, the Princess is perfectly capable of defending herself, so Toad puts those powerups to good use, and summons them to aid him in battle!

Weight: 80 (tied with Meta Knight and ZSS)
Walk: 1.259 (tied with the Pits)
Dash: 2.125 (inbetween Diddy Kong and Pikachu)
Jumps: 2 (his jumps are not very high)
Air Speed: 1.113 (tied with Shulk)
Fall Speed: 1.78 (tied with Ridley)

Jab: A simple one-two jab, followed up by a headbutt. 2%, 2%, 4%.
Forward Tilt: Toad rears back and slams his head, similarly to DK’s headbutt. 7%.
Up Tilt: Performs a short little hop, taking Mario’s iconic jump pose. 9%.
Down Tilt: As he crouches, Toad slides forward headfirst. This moves him forward in the direction he’s facing. 7%.
Dash Attack: Super Star: Toad runs forward with arms spread like an airplane, glowing with the power of a Super Star. He is completely invincible during this attack. 10%.

Forward Smash: Super Hammer: Using the Super Hammer, Toad swings a hammer as big as he is. 16.4%.

Up Smash: Toad points upwards as two mushrooms sprout up on either side of him. (think Squirtle’s up smash, but with mushrooms). 3.2% (initial hit), 14% (clean), 8.7% (late).

Down Smash: Boomerang Toad: Using the Boomerang Flower, Toad faces the screen and throws two boomerangs on either side of him. 15% (max range), 10% (point blank). The boomerangs go farther the more the move is charged.

Neutral Aerial: Toad releases spores in a quick burst around himself. 11%.
Forward Aerial: Raccoon Toad: Using the Super Leaf, Toad grows a raccoon tail and whips it forward. 7%. Toad will move forward slightly if he uses this attack.
Back Aerial: Reverse Raccoon Toad: Using the Super Leaf, Toad grows a raccoon tail and whips it behind himself. 8.3%. Toad will move backward slightly if he uses this attack.
Up Aerial: A headbutt, like what Ness and Lucas do. There's a sweet spot on the center of his head that releases spores. 17% (sweet spot), 11% (sides of head).
Down Aerial: Statue Toad: Using the Statue Leaf, Toad transforms into a statue and slams down hard. A meteor smash. 12.2% (clean), 8% (late). This move also has light armor for up to 9%. Try not to use this move offstage.

Grab: A standard grab with one hand. Nothing special here.
Pummel: Toad headbutts his opponent with his mushroom head. 1.2% per pummel.
Forward Throw: Toad lifts the opponent over his head and throws them with both hands. The animation resembles that in Super Mario Bros. 2. 10%. This is a kill throw!
Back Throw: Toad turns around to throw the opponent with both hands. 11%.
Down Throw: Toad drops his opponent on the ground, then hops and headbutts. 1.1% (first hit), 7% (throw).
Up Throw: Toad drops the opponent and points upward as a mushroom sprouts underneath, popping the foe upward. 12.4%.

Neutral Special—Poison Shroom: Toad throws a Poison Mushroom that looks markedly different from the item. It slowly moves along the ground in the direction Toad was facing when he used the move. If an opponent touches it, the Poison Shroom will explode in a small burst of spores, paralyzing the foe. At higher percentages, this move may poison the foe. 13% (initial hit), 4.5% (spores), 1.7% (poison damage)

Side Special—Golden Mushroom Dash: Toad rushes forward at high speed, colliding with foes. Unlike with Banjo and Kazooie's Wonderwing, Toad can turn around up to two times. The attack gets weaker the longer he runs. However, as he runs, he is capable of outpacing many characters, even Sonic!


Up Special—Propeller Mushroom: Using the Propeller Mushroom, Toad flies upward while spinning. The propeller damages opponents multiple times, and he descends slowly. Tap down to use a Drill Spin meteor smash! 2.3% (propeller), 6.4% (Drill Spin)

Down Special—Mystery Block: A ? Block appears above Toad, who bashes it to receive a power-up! Toad can get:

Fire Flower: Gives him a Fire Flower item to hold and use.
Super Mushroom: Gives him a Super Mushroom item, so that he may grow.
Green Shell: Gives him a Green Shell item to hold and use.
Super Star: Toad receives the power of a Super Star, making him invincible
Poison Mushroom: Shrinks Toad.

In order from most common to least common: Fire Flower, Green Shell, Super Mushroom, Poison Mushroom, Super Star.


Final Smash—Warp Whistle: Toad takes out a Warp Whistle and plays that familiar tune, summoning a tornado that scoops opponents up and whisks them away! This Final Smash is very effective on stages with low upper blast lines. 34%.

Entrance: Toad emerges from a Toad House, saying “Fight time!” as he hops.

Boxing Ring Title: The Original Mushroom Retainer

Idle Pose 1: Toad pauses briefly as he sneezes.
Idle Pose 2: Toad will pat his mushroom head, to make sure nothing is too bruised.

Taunts

Taunt 1: Toad hops from foot to foot, saying “Let’s go!”.
Taunt 2: Toad plucks a mushroom from somewhere on his person, and rolls it along his arm before spinning it on his finger. Aesthetically, the mushroom can be a Super Mushroom, Mini Mushroom, or a 1-Up Mushroom.
Taunt 3: Toad adjusts his pants before pointing forward, saying “Let’s do this!”

Victory Poses

Victory Pose 1: Toad twirls around twice and flashes the V sign, saying, “I’m the winner!”
Victory Pose 2: From the background, Toad hops, flips to bounce off his head, and lands on a large mushroom to point towards the sky.
Victory Pose 3: Toad juggles three 1-Up Mushrooms before throwing them up into the air. As he waits for them to fall, a 3-Up Moon falls into his hands, much to his surprise.

Victory Theme: An arrangement of the fanfare that plays when Bowser is defeated in Super Mario Bros.

Lose/No Contest: Toad claps politely for the winner.

View attachment 277068View attachment 277069
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Mushroomguy12

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cothero said:
If a generic Toad was playable in smash, what moveset Sakurai could have implemented? I can't think of anything beside throwing vegetables (and annoyingly screaming "I AM THE BEST" as a taunt), but Peach already do that.

HOWEVER.. If we're talking about what could have been Captain Toad's moveset, that's a whole different story.
Click to expand...
TBH, we could very easily have both of them as alts of each other. Not to mention Toadette, Toadsworth, etc.
 
YoshiandToad

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cothero said:
If a generic Toad was playable in smash, what moveset Sakurai could have implemented? I can't think of anything beside throwing vegetables (and annoyingly screaming "I AM THE BEST" as a taunt), but Peach already do that.

HOWEVER.. If we're talking about what could have been Captain Toad's moveset, that's a whole different story.
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Local Toad enthusiast here.

Got several options for that:
  1. Spirit Battle style: Speedy grappler type. Small hurtbox, lots of chain grabs, super fast.
  2. Mario Party theme: As the host of Mario Party, Toad probably has the most defined role within it. Would be heavily RNG based, be able to set traps but very heavily dependent on those rolls.
  3. Mushroom Power up theme: There's been a ton of mushroom based power ups out there, and Toad IS a mushroom. Since Sakurai has already dabbled with Toad having mushroom spores and we've seen the amount of insane abilities various mushrooms can bestow upon Mario, Luigi, Peach and himself...
  4. Wario's Woods theme: Toad's first protagonist role. Features monsters, stacking items up, placing bombs, kicking bombs and running up vertical surfaces. Final Smash would get an unlucky sap caught up in the monster pile squashed by a giant Thwomp.
  5. The Suit: Mario and Luigi are already in the game, but Toad is known as the item handler. Since the suits make for poor items(due in part to them having to cover everyone's bodies and there being 80+ characters now, Toad who has canonically worn most the suits could showcase this particular aspect of Mario off nicely. Especially since he wears a lot of them in 3D World.
  6. Toads are plentiful: You could lean heavily into the fact many see Toad as a generic species and have him summon Toads into battle to aid him similar to something like Naruto's Shadow clone technique or Yoshi's Final Smash. Paper Mario dabbled with the idea of dozens of Toads combining into one super weapon after all.
  7. The obvious Captain Toad: Bad jump aside, Captain Toad comes packing(heh) heat with the Pickaxe, Minecart, rapid fire turnip cannon, backpack, double cherries and gigantic mega turnips. Final Smash can be summoning either Draggadon to fire blitz the stage or Wingo to bring down the lightning and air blasts. Only downside is Steve has dabbled with the pickaxe and minecart now.
Thank you for attending my Toad Talk.

7NATOR said:
The question I need to ask is who do you think would be Playable first

Toad, Waluigi, or Geno?
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Probably Waluigi honestly. Or Pauline.

Toad seems to be ignored by Sakurai no matter if he gets his own game or not and I don't buy Geno is happening at this point either.
 
Goombaic

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7NATOR said:
The question I need to ask is who do you think would be Playable first

Toad, Waluigi, or Geno?
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Those are highly requested characters that are bound to get in one day. Definitely not in Ultimate, but at least one of those will be a newcomer in the next Smash. Waluigi.
The Stoopid Unikorn said:
None of the above. It'll be Kamek :4pacman:
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That's more like it.
 
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Megadoomer

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ahemtoday said:
I know next to nothing about Tekken, but I heard that Heihachi's VA passed away? And, because of that (and possibly also because Heihachi himself died? in T7, making it kind of a retroactive tribute to his VA?) he's not going to be making any major appearances? Biiiig question marks on all of that, by the way, because I'm not sure about any of it.

If that's true, that makes me wonder if Heihachi really is the frontrunner for a Tekken rep anymore.
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Heihachi's voice actor passed away, but it's not the first time that happened. He was voiced by Banjo Ginga and Wataru Takagi in Tekken 1 and 2, respectively (both are alive), and then he was voiced by Daisuke Gouri in Tekken 3-6, when the character got old. Gouri passed away, and he was replaced by Unsho Ishizuka, who passed away recently.

However, Heihachi has appeared in King of Fighters All Stars since then (it's a mobile game that uses audio from Tekken 7, I think, but it's still an appearance), and characters dying in canon doesn't impact their chances of appearing in Smash. (as seen with Dark Samus, Ridley (who's been dead since Super Metroid - any games set afterwards use a clone), and possibly Snake, though the last one is ambiguous)
 
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SneakyLink

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Today is a monumental day for the series as it came out today Japan time!

Who would think the series would reach the point it has today?
 
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Michael the Spikester

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SneakyLink said:

Today is a monumental day in Japan... and for the series.
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22 years of Smash!

Happy anniversary!

November will also be Melee's 20th anniversary.
 
7NATOR

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SneakyLink said:

Today is a monumental day for the series as it came out today Japan time!

Who would think the series would reach the point it has today?
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I wonder how Technology in 20 years would Affect Smash. Depending on if it could make creating the actual assets to implement characters in the game easier, we could see roster Sizes that dwarf even Ultimate's

Then again, with an increase in technology, there's also an increase in expectations, so perhaps those expectations might limit the amount of characters we could get 20 years after

We might also start to see the appearance of Non-Video game origin characters like Goku and Mickey Mouse by that point, though that also requires all the rights and that still could be a nightmare even years after.

I also wonder what New Video game icons we could see over the years. Characters like 2B, Tracer, Sans, and others are just some of the recent characters that have resonated with audiences. As we might start to get in some of the characters from the olden days, we shall hopefully get some New Generation Icons in the roster as well

This also takes into account if Smash continues in the same form it is today. Depending on where Gaming is, and what other mediums might take over, could dictate what happens to Smash in the future. It's possible gaming dies 20 years later, maybe if virtual reality becomes a big thing and actually affordable for the Casual audience
 
Otoad64

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7NATOR said:
This also takes into account if Smash continues in the same form it is today. Depending on where Gaming is, and what other mediums might take over, could dictate what happens to Smash in the future. It's possible gaming dies 20 years later, maybe if virtual reality becomes a big thing and actually affordable for the Casual audience
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I mean virtual reality is still gaming.
 
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