Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[LiveStudioAudience]

It is interesting to see the discussion about what’s necessary to really do a character justice in Smash. Can Sora really be Sora without the Disney elements? Is Conker really himself without vulgarity? Should the two switch with Conker palling around with Mickey while Sora swears?

All fascinating questions.

 

[Shroob]

What's the point of adding Bayonetta if you have to re-proportion her, significantly tone down her nakedness, and sanitize her catchphrase? Well whatever the point may be, it's certainly gotten people to stop complaining about those differences.

People actin like Smash is a script and not a game that barely uses dialogue.

How will characters work without swearing? Idk, probably with whatever arsenal they can bring from their games that is completely divorced from their actual language (y'know, the part related to gameplay), and by saying things they said in their games that aren't laden with profanity?

You can still have Conker stagger around, crack jokes, be insulting, slur his speech, use fart and burp gags, and use most of his more ridiculous weaponry. You can still be vulgar without being profane.

It's less the "Haha swears" and more that you'd be sacrificing a lot to get him in the game.


Bayonetta lost her torture moves, but she still brought her rogues gallery and supporting cast with her.


Conker? Ya ain't gonna convince me that Smash could reference The Great Mighty Poo, who's arguably the 2nd most iconic character. A lot of his "Context Sensitive" moves also probably wouldn't work, like getting ****face drunk and pissing on people.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Can Sora really be Sora without the Disney elements? Is Conker really himself without vulgarity? Should the two switch with Conker palling around with Mickey while Sora swears?

Yes. Yes. No but it'd be hilarious.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

You can still have Conker stagger around...slur his speech...

Drink his O.J.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

It is interesting to see the discussion about what’s necessary to really do a character justice in Smash. Can Sora really be Sora without the Disney elements? Is Conker really himself without vulgarity? Should the two switch with Conker palling around with Mickey while Sora swears?

All fascinating questions.

Ngl, I wanna see Sora call someone a ***** now

 

[Gengar84]

Truthfully, the main reason I’m so against Conker is because the Battletoads and Fulgore are among my most wanted. I feel like if Conker made it in, it would basically kill the chances of any other RARE character.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

and the 2nd time was when Berri was killed and he said, "You son of a *****" to her killer.

That was actually an Aliens reference, he said it to the Xenomorph final boss thing when he pilots the yellow suit.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It’s kind of like Duke Nukem. Would anyone really want a toned down Duke without any of his crude jokes? Without them, he doesn’t really offer much Doomguy or Master Chief doesn’t already do.

Watcha talking about, this is peak Duke

 

[DarthEnderX]

It’s kind of like Duke Nukem. Would anyone really want a toned down Duke without any of his crude jokes?

...I don't want Duke WITH his crude jokes.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Personally I still think Conker could be represented fine himself, staying true to his character with maybe even a 4th-wall joke about him having to be closer to rated E so he can’t bring some of his buddies or get drunk, but he can still do the cartoon violence and other silly slapstick stuff, and still perfectly sound and act like Conker personality-wise.

I guess his game wouldn’t be represented the best unfortunately, but we could still get some memorable things, such as maybe those living stacks of cash.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

It's less the "Haha swears" and more that you'd be sacrificing a lot to get him in the game.


Bayonetta lost her torture moves, but she still brought her rogues gallery and supporting cast with her.


Conker? Ya ain't gonna convince me that Smash could reference The Great Mighty Poo, who's arguably the 2nd most iconic character. A lot of his "Context Sensitive" moves also probably wouldn't work, like getting ****face drunk and pissing on people.

This is the "Doom guy needs blood and gore to survive in smash" argument all over again. All he'd need is his trusty frying pan, a flamethrower, a chainsaw, a slingshot, maybe a shotgun since they're cool with Joker having a gun and he'd still be himself. Maybe context sensitive could just be a taunt where a few wacky things happen but I'm sure Conker wouldn't be all that stale. He's a cartoonish looking character and that's all he needs to feel right in Smash.

 

[Shroob]

This is the "Doom guy needs blood and gore to survive in smash" argument all over again. All he'd need is his trusty frying pan, a flamethrower, a chainsaw, a slingshot, maybe a shotgun since they're cool with Joker having a gun and he'd still be himself. Maybe context sensitive could just be a taunt where a few wacky things happen but I'm sure Conker wouldn't be all that stale. He's a cartoonish looking character and that's all he needs to feel right in Smash.

I mean, not really?

You can easily tone down Conker.


You can't do the same to the stuff around him. It's an E+10 rated game. Losing TGMP and arguably the most iconic song from the game, if not one of the most iconic songs in gaming period, is a hard sell to me.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Ya ain't gonna convince me that Smash could reference The Great Mighty Poo, who's arguably the 2nd most iconic character.

Actually they could easily make him a Spirit since there's nothing wrong with his name or design. It's his song that would have to be heavily (snickers) sanitized. I also don't think they'd make his battle arena the stage because...ew, but that's probably not that strange a decision since a game's first stage is usually either the game's far and away most important location, or the game's World 1-1.

As far as the song goes, I'm not sure I'd want to hear a song about someone throwing poop at me out of context anyway. I have seen the swear words in the song censored with fart noises, so there's always that route so long as the rest of the song isn't too gross. lol

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I mean, not really?

You can easily tone down Conker.


You can't do the same to the stuff around him. It's an E+10 rated game. Losing TGMP and arguably the most iconic song from the game, if not one of the most iconic songs in gaming period, is a hard sell to me.

Because clearly, Nintendo has never had to make sacrifices before.

-cough-Mai Shiranui-cough-

 

[Ivander]

You can't do the same to the stuff around him. It's an E+10 rated game. Losing TGMP and arguably the most iconic song from the game, if not one of the most iconic songs in gaming period, is a hard sell to me.

I mean, we do have Master Belch and Poo in Smash Bros. Ultimate. Don't know about the song, but the character could still be a Spirit.

 

[Shroob]

Because clearly, Nintendo has never had to make sacrifices before.

-cough-Mai Shiranui-cough-

Which is a legit shame.



But at the same time, it'd be like including Undertale content without Megalovania. Sloppy Soprano is up there as one of the most iconic songs in gaming, cutting it would feel incredibly wrong.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I mean, not really?

You can easily tone down Conker.


You can't do the same to the stuff around him. It's an E+10 rated game. Losing TGMP and arguably the most iconic song from the game, if not one of the most iconic songs in gaming period, is a hard sell to me.

Which is honestly sad. It's the best song in the game. There is a slightly censored version that bleeps out the curse words, I think? I don't know if that'd be enough to matter, but I would sure as hell take that than nothing.

I get entirely where people are coming from too. The swearing is seriously iconic to the series in general. It's not just Conker, who is easy to tone down. But the series has a lot of memorable moments that are lost. Spirits, sure, fine. Those aren't hard to work with. But losing the best song would sting. Not that the other music is bad. Though we've had this happen before, as some really strong songs aren't in(Minecraft I remember lost some of its coolest music for one reason or another. Licensing nightmares, maybe). FFVII was hard enough to look at without OWA alone. It's fixed now, but my lord, was that baaaaaad.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

I mean, not really?

You can easily tone down Conker.


You can't do the same to the stuff around him. It's an E+10 rated game. Losing TGMP and arguably the most iconic song from the game, if not one of the most iconic songs in gaming period, is a hard sell to me.

I mean a lot of people complained about not having Gruntilda's theme with Banjo & Kazooie and if the Smash team are willing to sacrifice that, they'll be more than willing to sacrifice the Great mighty poo.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Actually they could easily make him a Spirit since there's nothing wrong with his name or design. It's his song that would have to be heavily (snickers) sanitized. I also don't think they'd make his battle arena the stage because...ew, but that's probably not that strange a decision since a game's first stage is usually either the game's far and away most important location, or the game's World 1-1.

As far as the song goes, I'm not sure I'd want to hear a song about someone throwing poop at me out of context anyway. I have seen the swear words in the song censored with fart noises, so there's always that route so long as the rest of the song isn't too gross. lol

Personally no Sloprano would be disappointing but not necessary, and a censored version like you said could be cool and funny; imo if they just changed the profane words to stuff like “rat” and whatever it’d be just as good.

Is poop allowed in E-10+ games, though? I don’t see it often, I only remember it being a joke cheat thing in Lego games, where it looks like a brown Lego stud…I wouldn’t mind it myself, I’ll admit I like a bit of toilet humor like the Rare folks do or Binding of Isaac, but since I don’t see it often I’m unaware of how rating boards see it (although I guess there was that weird Pooplers game that was only rated M because of what the red poop could be mistaken for).

anyway I think the main theme (Windy and its variants) are cool too though, also iconic for the game imo.

 

[spicynun]

Because clearly, Nintendo has never had to make sacrifices before.

-cough-Mai Shiranui-cough-

Thats one character vs the entire tone of a game. I mean the entire plot revolves around Conker getting a hangover, imagine Sakurai explaining that in the Conker Presents showcase since he usually dives into the plot. You couldn't have the mighty poo as a song or maybe even as a spirit. Berri probably is out too. Definitely no big boobed sunflower. I mean everyone seems to just suggest we have Conker be just him with a frying pan and a couple weapons (some of which probably wouldn't even be allowed) which at that point, why even go through all that trouble to add him over someone without all those hurdles?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Though we've had this happen before, as some really strong songs aren't in(Minecraft I remember lost some of its coolest music for one reason or another. Licensing nightmares, maybe).

I think have seen a Sakurai quote that does state licensing as a reason for none of the C418 tracks getting in, though I can't remember where. Even if there isn't one though, I have heard that C418 has been a bit weird about his music lately, and it may be that Pigstep is just the beginning in terms of Minecraft tracks that aren't made by them.

 

[Jondolio]

Cartoon squirrel = boring
Cartoon squirrel who gets drunk and pisses and swears = not boring

I don't get what's so complicated about that

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Cartoon squirrel = boring
Cartoon squirrel who gets drunk and pisses and swears = not boring

I don't get what's so complicated about that

That's because you are extremely oversimplifying things.

At this point though, it's clear that it would actually need to happen before anyone could be convinced, so unless anyone has a plausible mock-up, I think we should probably move on.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I mean a lot of people complained about not having Gruntilda's theme with Banjo & Kazooie and if the Smash team are willing to sacrifice that, they'll be more than willing to sacrifice the Great mighty poo.

You mean Teddy Bear Picnic? We don't have Krauser's theme so I assume Nintendo doesn't want public domain songs

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

You mean Teddy Bear Picnic? We don't have Krauser's theme so I assume Nintendo doesn't want public domain songs

Why would it matter to them? Wouldn't it be easier to justify since it would be free to include?

 

[TheCJBrine]

I think have seen a Sakurai quote that does state licensing as a reason for none of the C418 tracks getting in, though I can't remember where. Even if there isn't one though, I have heard that C418 has been a bit weird about his music lately, and it may be that Pigstep is just the beginning in terms of Minecraft tracks that aren't made by them.

I read a theory that C418 doesn’t want to just be seen as just “the Minecraft composer,” which is fair, but imo that still seems like a weird reason to deny Nintendo using music, and C418 still mentions stuff like “You know me from the Minecraft soundtrack” on his Twitter so idk.

He also doesn’t seem stingy with music; apparently his music has been content ID’d on YouTube, however he explained it was bad actors and stuff, and that he’d never do that. He seems to want fans to be free to use his Minecraft music, though, so my theory is maybe Nintendo not agreeing to let fans have free use of potential remixes they’d have rights to.

I do wonder why Mojang didn’t hire him again for 1.16, though, despite doing so for 1.13. Maybe they just wanted to include more composers? To be fair, he did already compose some music for the Nether, and his still makes up at least half of the Nether’s soundtrack…of course, maybe he just wants to focus on other stuff…not complaining about Lena Raine’s music though, her tracks are epic.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

He seems to want fans to be free to use his Minecraft music, though, so my theory is maybe Nintendo not agreeing to let fans have free use of potential remixes they’d have rights to.

Hmm. If that were true, then it would also answer my previous question.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

You mean Teddy Bear Picnic? We don't have Krauser's theme so I assume Nintendo doesn't want public domain songs

Banjo Kazooie has loads of songs inspired by public domain nursery rhymes, including spiral mountain so I don't think that's the case.

 

[7NATOR]

In regards to Music, the main thing I want to know is why do you guys think Street Fighter only has SF2 Music in Smash. It seems very deliberate that they ignored Alpha Series, SF3, SF4, and SF5 in regards to Music selection, despite having Spirits from Alpha, SF3, and SF4

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

The Conker stage has the Great and Mighty Poo instrumental song and even features the titular character showing up in the background, but every time he starts to sing Conker (or Gregg the Grim Reaper if someone's playing as Conker) tosses toilet paper at his mouth.

 

[FreeFox]

Cool! Its Conker´s time for smash talking! Probably the game with one of the most fun multiplayer games on the 64.

 

[Curious Villager]

Here is one mystery I want solved. I want to know what Layton's voice actor was talking about when he posted on Twitter a post saying "So thats what those extra voice lines were for!" Or somthing along those lines

Not sure, his one (and only iirc) voice role after that fact (with Layton at least) was with the HD remaster of Curious Village and one of the new cutcenes that was added to that game, he hasn't really voiced Layton since. Mainly because Level-5 hasn't done much of significance with the series afterwards, including bringing the anime over to English territories.

Wonder what Christopher Robin Miller has been up to ever since though...

 

[subterrestrial]

imagine context sensitive specials depending on the stage and your position on said stage

 

[3BitSaurus]

Banjo Kazooie has loads of songs inspired by public domain nursery rhymes, including spiral mountain so I don't think that's the case.

Not to mention the Tetris theme, which has 2 remixes in the game and is ultimately a Russian folk song.

I don't think public domain songs are the problem here.

 

[N3ON]

It's less the "Haha swears" and more that you'd be sacrificing a lot to get him in the game.


Bayonetta lost her torture moves, but she still brought her rogues gallery and supporting cast with her.


Conker? Ya ain't gonna convince me that Smash could reference The Great Mighty Poo, who's arguably the 2nd most iconic character. A lot of his "Context Sensitive" moves also probably wouldn't work, like getting ****face drunk and pissing on people.

It seems to me that all the arguments against Conker apply to series/characters against which we brush them off.

First of all, the question should not be can he do all his moves, it should be, can he do enough of his moves to still be faithfully included. And of course he can. He can do all his basic stuff, he can use the frying pan, the guns (if they're made cartoony enough), the bazooka, probably the chainsaw, the spiked bat, etc etc. No, he probably couldn't walk around pissing or visibly drink alcohol, but you don't need every aspect of the character for the character to still be faithful. Or at least for them to be implemented. Pac-Man is treated like nothing has happened since 1984.

I've seen a number of times where people have said "well, these aspects of Master Chief may not work, but look at all of these that can!", and the consensus is usually that you can forego a few elements if you still have the brunt of them remaining. I mean, just the number of times the needler has been raised, and that's a Covenant weapon, not an innately Spartan one. Is swearing and pissing the majority of Conker, because I swore I can remember him doing a bunch of other stuff too.

I mean, Bayonetta was fundamentally altered as a character. They changed her look, they changed a highly prolific part of her attacks, which was incorporating nudity, and they also literally used a family friendly version of her catchphrase in her trailer. I remember having discussions very similar to this prior to her being included. You don't even need to change Conker to include him, you just can't include every part.

As for the supporting cast, almost all of them could make it. Berri, Panther King, the Sunflower, Birdy the scarecrow, the Grim Reaper. They might even be able to include the Great Mighty Poo. It's not like his name is the Great Mighty ****. And the GMP isn't like, the main antagonist or the deuteragonist. He's just a boss.

Not getting Mai didn't stop getting Terry, and she's right up there with Iori, Kyo and Geese in terms of notability.

Those examples aside, should we douse our hopes for Sora because he won't show up with Donald and Goofy? I would call them the second most iconic characters of that series. If Kingdom Hearts gets in, it's going to have a lot more supporting content pared out of it than Conker would.

Because it really is about the character, and the supporting parts flow from there. Would he still be able to be included faithfully? Well you could give him his weaponry and his demeanour, his stage and most of the soundtrack and almost all of the supporting cast. Like I said, you can retain the vulgarity without including the profanity. Wario literally has a fart attack, and one of his idles is him scratching his ass. No character comes bringing the entirety of their series with them anyway, and plenty of characters don't use their full arsenal. You don't always get everything. But you also don't need everything.

I really just champion every character in terms of feasibility, because, I'm sure you can find an exception here and there, but I legitimately think almost all can work without losing their essence. I learned from thinking Bayonetta wouldn't fit. On the basis of feasibility, I advocated for Steve, Isabelle and a Tekken character (all of whom were contentious), I advocate for Travis and Doom Slayer and Scorpion. 2B, Morrigan and KOS-MOS and other characters that might need visual alterations. Regardless of chances, I don't think any of these characters have such a brittle identity that they can't withstand being brought inline with Smash's parameters. And therein I'd include Conker.

 

[Ivander]

You mean Teddy Bear Picnic? We don't have Krauser's theme so I assume Nintendo doesn't want public domain songs

I don't think the issue is with public domain songs, considering we have Tetris and the Mario Bros. medley.

 

[Dinoman96]

It's also a moot argument because a rendition of Gruntilda's theme IS in Smash anyways: the second half of the Gobi's Valley remix.

 

[GoodGrief741]

So what's this community's opinions on the recent Internet conversion about the Metroid Dread trailers revealing too much about the game pre-release?

I haven't watched a single trailer since E3, I tried to watch the Treehouse but then I went "whoa this is a lot they're showing" so I guess that tells you my stance. I think the less I know about a Metroid game before playing the better, helps that mysterious atmosphere.

I really appreciate that many people have kept discussion and theories in spoiler tags btw, though unfortunately not everyone does.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

So what's this community's opinions on the recent Internet conversion about the Metroid Dread trailers revealing too much about the game pre-release? Personally I know Metroid has never been about enthralling plots or character arcs as much as environmental storytelling, atmosphere, and exploration, so I've been pretty okay with it. Just hope some new suits or abilities are still secret.

I’m cutting myself off from Dread news till release. I think the Chozo General and Kraid definitely should’ve been saved for the actual release.
I hope there are some surprises to look forward too. Maybe the Cunning God of Death will reappear?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

For Dread spoiler discussions, well, it's the first new game in the timeline in 19 years with all sorts of questions that fans have been asked seemingly being addressed with all sorts of stuff Metroid hasn't really done before. Plus, Metroid has consistently been the closest Nintendo has to a horror franchise, a lot of people would like to be as blind as possible as **** like Crocomire, SA-X, the Wrecked Ship and more have been best when experienced blind.