Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Don’t forget that Nintendo didn’t help platinum make the game to begin with. It’s a case of “hey you, make us a game” and platinum said “sure thing!”
For all we know it is just a legal waiting period and it will become clear in the future but until the IP has officially and publicly changed hands it still is a Nintendo property.

The remaster being published by PlatinumGames themselves rather than Nintendo, on non-Nintendo platforms, and without any traces of Nintendo logos within the game itself isn't obvious enough?

What else do you need to know it's no longer a Nintendo property? Furukawa spelling it out to you letter by letter?

 

[DarthEnderX]

I see people mention Sol Badguy as a potential fighter from Guilty Gear. But what if we lived in the timeline where it's actually...

Well...at least Guilty Gear would still be out of Kunio's way for Smash 6.

 

[Hex D. Jess]

From what I understand, Nintendo offered to publish the port of Wonderful 101 but Platinum refused the offer because they wanted to do a multiplatform release.

That's what Scott the Woz said, anyway. I don't know if that's actually what happened.

 

[HYRULESHERO42]

The remaster being published by PlatinumGames themselves rather than Nintendo, on non-Nintendo platforms, and without any traces of Nintendo logos within the game itself isn't obvious enough?

What else do you need to know it's no longer a Nintendo property? Furukawa spelling it out to you letter by letter?

How about the company that apparently now owns is simply saying so?

also, you come across as a jerk. Just so you’re aware.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Into the Spiderverse really has done a lot for Miles Morales’s popularity.

Spontaneous horny isn't really that surprising.


Look at the Gen 6 Hex Maniac from Pokemon. She was just some random throw-away trainer class. She still gets fan art consistently how many years after XY came out?



Dimetscura was made to definitely appeal for the booba crowd, but I severely doubt they'd think she would TAKE OFF as hard as she did.

Off topic, but all I am going to say is that this Dimetscura talk remind me of a tweet made by an artist about how he was shocked that there existed people who were attracted to characters he designed.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

If Nintendos name doesn’t appear in the Wonderful101 port at all, it’s safe to say they don’t own it. Even aside the fact Nintendo wouldn’t allow it on other platforms, no logo or even copyright means Nintendo doesn’t have a stake.

 

[Mushufasa]

So I refined my tier list of DLC chances. Took out a lot of the Pokemon and memes (though I left a few choice meme picks in). I'll ramble about some of the changes and characters.

Spoiler: Comically big tier list 1.1

Spoiler: A and B Tier

Funky Kong: Moved down to B tier. You can play as him in Tropical Freeze, he was the fastest character in Mario Kart Wii, and you could give him some DK 64 weapons as part of the moveset potentially since he was the salesman. If they want to add another DK character, look no further than Funky.

Moved Euden and Katalina above BotW characters. Most of A tier is discussed enough, but I still feel a BotW character is not discussed enough as a possibility. Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity, and BotW 2 on the way, a firm BotW character makes sense ( To me at least).

Resident Evil: If not Phoenix, Capcom could go with Resident Evil as a Fighter. I think Leon is the most likely, but I'll mention Chris, Jill, and Wesker (each of which I think is a tad less likely) as being sensible choices as well.

Paper Mario has so much Mario RPG and Paper Mario RPG he could pull from, help represent those Mario games etc. I feel Amy would be next in line after Robotnik for the more "Obvious" Sonic choices. SMTV Protagonist gets discussed enough, but I do have to admit it lines up nicely.

Advance Wars having the remakes makes me a huge believer for the first time since the Brawl Smash Dojo days! I think it would be Andy myself.

Spoiler: C Tier

Revali is down here since I don't think he's as inspired of a choice as a different BotW fighter (same as Inteleon for Gen 8 Pokemon). Speaking of Pokemon, Toxtricity is definitely being slept on by many. We don't really have a musician type fighter, so that mixed with electric + poison attacks would create a unique fighter also representing the latest games of a huge Nintendo property.

Amaterasu and Aiai are up here mostly due to the Capcom and Sega being absent from the passes so far. Amaterasu would be an elegant fighter, and Aiai is up here due to Monkey Ball really going in on the cross-over aspect. Why not also cross-over Aiai into a different series? I think Aiai wouldn't be in the ball the entire time, since my main concern for him would be "Well isn't he just going to be stuck in the ball the entire time....".

I think Ring Fit can stand on its own ground without needing to be a Wii Fit Echo (though I was -this- close to putting them in the Echo tier). Tabuu is sort of a stand-in for a Smash original fighter, someone that can use callbacks and references to the entire series. What better way to end the fighter choices than someone who can bring it full circle?

Spoiler: D Tier

All fighting game characters took a hit in their chances since we -just- got Kazuya. Having said that, I think Chun-Li is iconic enough to push past that. Guilty Gear has a recent hit on their hands. I've seen Sol Badguy tossed around a bunch, but everyone is sleeping on TOTSUGEKI . Even Urshifu is hit by the "FGC Fatigue".

2B (Well, often times 2P) is no stranger to cross over. Soul Calibur, FFXIV, why not add Smash Bros. as another?

Then we hit a big stretch of JRPGs with Legend of Heroes, Ys, and Disgaea finally getting their time in the big spotlight.

I changed my mind on Doom Slayer and Master Chief after seeing some movesets for them. It was honestly the main reason I was hesitant on thinking they had a chance. Use explosions and beam weapons instead of bullets, both Doom Slayer and Chief would be an excellent representation on the FPS genre. Doom slayer has a shot, but I'll go into Master Chief in E tier.

Indie block is definitely where we start entering the strange timelines of them being possible. If Shovel Knight is an Assist Trophy and Sans a Mii Costume, why should any other Indie game fare better?

Cadence and the Rhythm Heaven characters have a big design challenge in that they can't be going to the rhythm of every song in the game (imagine getting environmental noises...). Chorus Kids was on the short list for Smash 4 so they clearly had -something- in mind that might work.

The Platinum Games fighters have lower odds due to Bayonetta already being in (and yes, I'm lumping Raiden in here as well since it would definitely be the Revengeance version). Kiryu has some stiff competition with other Sega fighters to make it in himself (not to mention, would we really go from Kazuya into Kiryu?)

Spyro and Ray-Man, in my mind, fall under the "Nostalgic Platformer mascots with recent Remake success". Problem is, they have to contend with Crash in that same category as well. To me Crash wins, but I can see other people swapping them based on who they like more.

Spoiler: E Tier

So a lot of characters in this tier I think would be easy to predict additions if it weren't for previously added fighters.

- Castlevania already had 2 new fighters and made Alucard an Assist Trophy (Soma, Shanoa)

- Namco -just- had a character added (Tales, Mr Driller, Soul Calibur)

- Square recently had Sephiroth (The World Ends With You, Octopath)

- Microsoft has had 2 fighters already (Master Chief, Ori, Battletoads)

It doesn't outright deconfirm this lot, but boy does it make it hard to seriously imagine them making it in. But just imagine if we live in the timeline Battletoads are added to Smash....

More serious contenders in the Meme, I mean, E tier, are some Pokemon, additional reps to 1st party franchises (Off the Hook, Birdo, Tingle), couple Indies, and a lot of Mobile gaming reps (Amber for Genshin Impact, Amiya for Arknights, Princess Pecorine for Princess Connect Re:Dive).

Oh, and because of Rapper Mario leak I will give Fortnite a ghost of a chance.

I was not going to bother including Sigma -but- it turns out he was a major antagonist in Marvel vs Capcom Infinite. Maybe Capcom wants to bring back Sigma some more?

Professor Layton and Jibanyan (Yo-Kai as a whole) would have been in D tier if it wasn't for the whole shutting down of North American operations business.

Frogger, Tetris, and Tingle honestly, are here as the "haha funny meme joke picks", as well as some super retro characters. Have to have a few of these

Spoiler: Sir Not Appearing In This Film Tier

Sora is the big one I wanted to talk about. I just don't see a world Disney will allow it, sad to say .

A lot of these are more Playstation centric characters. The only character I think even has a "Chance" is Ratchet & Clank (and I think that's like a 0.1%, thus E tier)

Mortal Kombat would have to sacrifice too much of their identity to be able to fit in. Even Doom Slayer and Master Chief will be fine after the touch ups they would presumably need.

Five Nights at Freddies? Please....

TF2 (Heavy) has way too many votes on Global Smash Roster (I guess the link got posted in the TF2 Subreddit or something). Valve rep is not happening.

The Pokemon in this tier, while I would love to fight as, missed their shot in Smash. Same for Fawful and Vaati (and the Toads imo).

Again, for this tier if anyone -does- make it in, be sure to @ me or something to rub it in my face , but I wanted to be on the record regarding them as "No" (Unless I change my mind like I did for Doom Slayer).

 

[True Blue Warrior]

People worry that the last DLC character will end up being a pile of feces, but what if that actually were to be the case?

 

[Theguy123]

So I refined my tier list of DLC chances. Took out a lot of the Pokemon and memes (though I left a few choice meme picks in). I'll ramble about some of the changes and characters.

Spoiler: Comically big tier list 1.1

Spoiler: A and B Tier

Funky Kong: Moved down to B tier. You can play as him in Tropical Freeze, he was the fastest character in Mario Kart Wii, and you could give him some DK 64 weapons as part of the moveset potentially since he was the salesman. If they want to add another DK character, look no further than Funky.

Moved Euden and Katalina above BotW characters. Most of A tier is discussed enough, but I still feel a BotW character is not discussed enough as a possibility. Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity, and BotW 2 on the way, a firm BotW character makes sense ( To me at least).

Resident Evil: If not Phoenix, Capcom could go with Resident Evil as a Fighter. I think Leon is the most likely, but I'll mention Chris, Jill, and Wesker (each of which I think is a tad less likely) as being sensible choices as well.

Paper Mario has so much Mario RPG and Paper Mario RPG he could pull from, help represent those Mario games etc. I feel Amy would be next in line after Robotnik for the more "Obvious" Sonic choices. SMTV Protagonist gets discussed enough, but I do have to admit it lines up nicely.

Advance Wars having the remakes makes me a huge believer for the first time since the Brawl Smash Dojo days! I think it would be Andy myself.

Spoiler: C Tier

Revali is down here since I don't think he's as inspired of a choice as a different BotW fighter (same as Inteleon for Gen 8 Pokemon). Speaking of Pokemon, Toxtricity is definitely being slept on by many. We don't really have a musician type fighter, so that mixed with electric + poison attacks would create a unique fighter also representing the latest games of a huge Nintendo property.

Amaterasu and Aiai are up here mostly due to the Capcom and Sega being absent from the passes so far. Amaterasu would be an elegant fighter, and Aiai is up here due to Monkey Ball really going in on the cross-over aspect. Why not also cross-over Aiai into a different series? I think Aiai wouldn't be in the ball the entire time, since my main concern for him would be "Well isn't he just going to be stuck in the ball the entire time....".

I think Ring Fit can stand on its own ground without needing to be a Wii Fit Echo (though I was -this- close to putting them in the Echo tier). Tabuu is sort of a stand-in for a Smash original fighter, someone that can use callbacks and references to the entire series. What better way to end the fighter choices than someone who can bring it full circle?

Spoiler: D Tier

All fighting game characters took a hit in their chances since we -just- got Kazuya. Having said that, I think Chun-Li is iconic enough to push past that. Guilty Gear has a recent hit on their hands. I've seen Sol Badguy tossed around a bunch, but everyone is sleeping on TOTSUGEKI . Even Urshifu is hit by the "FGC Fatigue".

2B (Well, often times 2P) is no stranger to cross over. Soul Calibur, FFXIV, why not add Smash Bros. as another?

Then we hit a big stretch of JRPGs with Legend of Heroes, Ys, and Disgaea finally getting their time in the big spotlight.

I changed my mind on Doom Slayer and Master Chief after seeing some movesets for them. It was honestly the main reason I was hesitant on thinking they had a chance. Use explosions and beam weapons instead of bullets, both Doom Slayer and Chief would be an excellent representation on the FPS genre. Doom slayer has a shot, but I'll go into Master Chief in E tier.

Indie block is definitely where we start entering the strange timelines of them being possible. If Shovel Knight is an Assist Trophy and Sans a Mii Costume, why should any other Indie game fare better?

Cadence and the Rhythm Heaven characters have a big design challenge in that they can't be going to the rhythm of every song in the game (imagine getting environmental noises...). Chorus Kids was on the short list for Smash 4 so they clearly had -something- in mind that might work.

The Platinum Games fighters have lower odds due to Bayonetta already being in (and yes, I'm lumping Raiden in here as well since it would definitely be the Revengeance version). Kiryu has some stiff competition with other Sega fighters to make it in himself (not to mention, would we really go from Kazuya into Kiryu?)

Spyro and Ray-Man, in my mind, fall under the "Nostalgic Platformer mascots with recent Remake success". Problem is, they have to contend with Crash in that same category as well. To me Crash wins, but I can see other people swapping them based on who they like more.

Spoiler: E Tier

So a lot of characters in this tier I think would be easy to predict additions if it weren't for previously added fighters.

- Castlevania already had 2 new fighters and made Alucard an Assist Trophy (Soma, Shanoa)

- Namco -just- had a character added (Tales, Mr Driller, Soul Calibur)

- Square recently had Sephiroth (The World Ends With You, Octopath)

- Microsoft has had 2 fighters already (Master Chief, Ori, Battletoads)

It doesn't outright deconfirm this lot, but boy does it make it hard to seriously imagine them making it in. But just imagine if we live in the timeline Battletoads are added to Smash....

More serious contenders in the Meme, I mean, E tier, are some Pokemon, additional reps to 1st party franchises (Off the Hook, Birdo, Tingle), couple Indies, and a lot of Mobile gaming reps (Amber for Genshin Impact, Amiya for Arknights, Princess Pecorine for Princess Connect Re:Dive).

Oh, and because of Rapper Mario leak I will give Fortnite a ghost of a chance.

I was not going to bother including Sigma -but- it turns out he was a major antagonist in Marvel vs Capcom Infinite. Maybe Capcom wants to bring back Sigma some more?

Professor Layton and Jibanyan (Yo-Kai as a whole) would have been in D tier if it wasn't for the whole shutting down of North American operations business.

Frogger, Tetris, and Tingle honestly, are here as the "haha funny meme joke picks", as well as some super retro characters. Have to have a few of these

Spoiler: Sir Not Appearing In This Film Tier

Sora is the big one I wanted to talk about. I just don't see a world Disney will allow it, sad to say .

A lot of these are more Playstation centric characters. The only character I think even has a "Chance" is Ratchet & Clank (and I think that's like a 0.1%, thus E tier)

Mortal Kombat would have to sacrifice too much of their identity to be able to fit in. Even Doom Slayer and Master Chief will be fine after the touch ups they would presumably need.

Five Nights at Freddies? Please....

TF2 (Heavy) has way too many votes on Global Smash Roster (I guess the link got posted in the TF2 Subreddit or something). Valve rep is not happening.

The Pokemon in this tier, while I would love to fight as, missed their shot in Smash. Same for Fawful and Vaati (and the Toads imo).

Again, for this tier if anyone -does- make it in, be sure to @ me or something to rub it in my face , but I wanted to be on the record regarding them as "No" (Unless I change my mind like I did for Doom Slayer).

nice tier list. Would pretty much agree with most things on there. Only thing I wanna correct is the level 5 stuff. It’s just a common misconception I see when going around. People say the America shut down affects the situation off the pass but people forget the shutdown happened in late 2020 and the pass was chosen apparently in 2018 and 2019 at the latest so it can’t really effect the pass. Other than that it’s spot on. I’d still probably keep Level 5 the same where you put them or maybe a tier up.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

How about the company that apparently now owns is simply saying so?

also, you come across as a jerk. Just so you’re aware.

Because if Nintendo still owned the IP, the Nintendo logo would still show up somewhere in the game since it's the way companies show that they own IPs.

Bayonetta 2 is a clear example of this; Sega didn't care enough about the IP to fund it after the first game, which is why Nintendo did it instead.

Despite this, Sega's logo still shows up in that game because they own the IP. It doesn't matter if Sega doesn't care; their logo must be shown. Otherwise, Sega has the grounds to outright sue PlatinumGames because of copyright laws.

I don't get how this isn't basic copyright logic and this mindset of "if they didn't say it, then it's not true" when there's enough pieces for us to figure it out on our own honestly annoys me.

 

[Momotsuki]

Don’t forget that Nintendo didn’t help platinum make the game to begin with. It’s a case of “hey you, make us a game” and platinum said “sure thing!”
For all we know it is just a legal waiting period and it will become clear in the future but until the IP has officially and publicly changed hands it still is a Nintendo property.

Super Mario on the PS4 will become real in five seconds.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Because if Nintendo still owned the IP, the Nintendo logo would still show up somewhere in the game since it's the way companies show that they own IPs.

Bayonetta 2 is a clear example of this; Sega didn't care enough about the IP to fund it after the first game, which is why Nintendo did it instead.

Despite this, Sega's logo still shows up in that game because they own the IP. It doesn't matter if Sega doesn't care; their logo must be shown. Otherwise, Sega has the grounds to outright sue PlatinumGames because of copyright laws.

I don't get how this isn't basic copyright logic and this mindset of "if they didn't say it, then it's not true" when there's enough pieces for us to figure it out on our own honestly annoys me.

Tbf that demands people to have played the remaster which nobody did, not even me, and I bought 3 ****ing copies of the original

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

1. We're not going to talk about Jedah's appearance in Marvel vs Capcom Infinite or Demitri, Hsien-Ko and Felicia in Project X Zone 1 and 2? Or Hsien-Ko and Felicia in Marvel vs Capcom 3?
2. Bionic Commando.....in Marvel vs Capcom 2......did you even frickin' play Marvel vs Capcom 2 OR 3? I can understand Marvel vs Capcom Infinite, but you clearly don't know your crossover rosters.
3. Yeah, Teppen, the card game. Alongside with Street Fighter, Resident Evil, Monster Hunter, Devil May Cry, Darkstalkers, Mega Man X, Okami, Sengoku Basara, Strider, Phoenix Wright and Dead Rising.
   
   
   
   Granted, Nina is a Character Costume while the others are Cards, but yes, Breath of Fire has gotten a crossover in a Capcom Crossover game.
4. Except Ghosts'n Goblins Resurrections is an actual new game. Not even a remaster. And obviously, you have issues with the recent Resident Evil single player games.

1. Like I said - VERY RARELY HAVE THEY DONE THAT.
2. I've heard of MvC3, but I don't think Bionic Commando characters even EXISTED in that game aside from cameos.
3. I pretty much just ignore Teppen's existence. It's not my thing to be honest.
4.

No, Capcom didn't even think she'd get popular. If anything, the horny people did the marketing for them and clearly even they didn't now they were doing false advertisement.

"Watch as this nostalgic yet completely reimagined storybook world unravels before your very eyes."
"...this picturesque storybook world, while gorgeous, is a love-letter to the original titles"

Completely new? More like "Heart of my butt."
LittleKuriboh Yugi: "I don't think I wanna believe in that."

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

People worry that the last DLC character will end up being a pile of feces, but what if that actually were to be the case?

Then we could finally say we have a character ****tier than Ultimate's netcode

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Lots of pfp changes I’m seeing lately
Glad to see we’re about upcoming games and goofing around with memes and what not lol

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Tbf that demands people to have played the remaster which nobody did, not even me, and I bought 3 ****ing copies of the original

It'd be fair enough if it wasn't the fourth time I repeat the same "Nintendo's logo isn't in it so they don't own it" argument and he still doesn't get it.

At this point, it's not just a matter of not having played the remaster, it's sheer stubbornness.

I've heard of MvC3, but I don't think Bionic Commando characters even EXISTED in that game aside from cameos.

His point is that you're mixing up Bionic Commando and Captain Commando, which are two very different IPs.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

1. Like I said - VERY RARELY HAVE THEY DONE THAT.
2. I've heard of MvC3, but I don't think Bionic Commando characters even EXISTED in that game aside from cameos.
3. I pretty much just ignore Teppen's existence. It's not my thing to be honest.
4.



Completely new? More like "Heart of my butt."
LittleKuriboh Yugi: "I don't think I wanna believe in that."

Bro just admit you have no clue what you're talking about, it's not rare if every Darkstalkers crossover has more than Morrigan, Spencer is literally a playable character in MvC3, having one of the most iconic moves in the community with Bionic Arm and one of the best Spencers ended up working for Capcom to make Infinite, which also kept Spencer. Just because it's not your thing doesn't mean you're magically right and that Teppen doesn't actually exist and acting like GnGR paying respect to the originals while also doing new stuff that didn't exist in the franchise including branching paths means it's actually the same as the original is flatout ****ing wrong

 

[Bobthealligator]

So I refined my tier list of DLC chances. Took out a lot of the Pokemon and memes (though I left a few choice meme picks in). I'll ramble about some of the changes and characters.

Spoiler: Comically big tier list 1.1

Spoiler: A and B Tier

Funky Kong: Moved down to B tier. You can play as him in Tropical Freeze, he was the fastest character in Mario Kart Wii, and you could give him some DK 64 weapons as part of the moveset potentially since he was the salesman. If they want to add another DK character, look no further than Funky.

Moved Euden and Katalina above BotW characters. Most of A tier is discussed enough, but I still feel a BotW character is not discussed enough as a possibility. Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity, and BotW 2 on the way, a firm BotW character makes sense ( To me at least).

Resident Evil: If not Phoenix, Capcom could go with Resident Evil as a Fighter. I think Leon is the most likely, but I'll mention Chris, Jill, and Wesker (each of which I think is a tad less likely) as being sensible choices as well.

Paper Mario has so much Mario RPG and Paper Mario RPG he could pull from, help represent those Mario games etc. I feel Amy would be next in line after Robotnik for the more "Obvious" Sonic choices. SMTV Protagonist gets discussed enough, but I do have to admit it lines up nicely.

Advance Wars having the remakes makes me a huge believer for the first time since the Brawl Smash Dojo days! I think it would be Andy myself.

Spoiler: C Tier

Revali is down here since I don't think he's as inspired of a choice as a different BotW fighter (same as Inteleon for Gen 8 Pokemon). Speaking of Pokemon, Toxtricity is definitely being slept on by many. We don't really have a musician type fighter, so that mixed with electric + poison attacks would create a unique fighter also representing the latest games of a huge Nintendo property.

Amaterasu and Aiai are up here mostly due to the Capcom and Sega being absent from the passes so far. Amaterasu would be an elegant fighter, and Aiai is up here due to Monkey Ball really going in on the cross-over aspect. Why not also cross-over Aiai into a different series? I think Aiai wouldn't be in the ball the entire time, since my main concern for him would be "Well isn't he just going to be stuck in the ball the entire time....".

I think Ring Fit can stand on its own ground without needing to be a Wii Fit Echo (though I was -this- close to putting them in the Echo tier). Tabuu is sort of a stand-in for a Smash original fighter, someone that can use callbacks and references to the entire series. What better way to end the fighter choices than someone who can bring it full circle?

Spoiler: D Tier

All fighting game characters took a hit in their chances since we -just- got Kazuya. Having said that, I think Chun-Li is iconic enough to push past that. Guilty Gear has a recent hit on their hands. I've seen Sol Badguy tossed around a bunch, but everyone is sleeping on TOTSUGEKI . Even Urshifu is hit by the "FGC Fatigue".

2B (Well, often times 2P) is no stranger to cross over. Soul Calibur, FFXIV, why not add Smash Bros. as another?

Then we hit a big stretch of JRPGs with Legend of Heroes, Ys, and Disgaea finally getting their time in the big spotlight.

I changed my mind on Doom Slayer and Master Chief after seeing some movesets for them. It was honestly the main reason I was hesitant on thinking they had a chance. Use explosions and beam weapons instead of bullets, both Doom Slayer and Chief would be an excellent representation on the FPS genre. Doom slayer has a shot, but I'll go into Master Chief in E tier.

Indie block is definitely where we start entering the strange timelines of them being possible. If Shovel Knight is an Assist Trophy and Sans a Mii Costume, why should any other Indie game fare better?

Cadence and the Rhythm Heaven characters have a big design challenge in that they can't be going to the rhythm of every song in the game (imagine getting environmental noises...). Chorus Kids was on the short list for Smash 4 so they clearly had -something- in mind that might work.

The Platinum Games fighters have lower odds due to Bayonetta already being in (and yes, I'm lumping Raiden in here as well since it would definitely be the Revengeance version). Kiryu has some stiff competition with other Sega fighters to make it in himself (not to mention, would we really go from Kazuya into Kiryu?)

Spyro and Ray-Man, in my mind, fall under the "Nostalgic Platformer mascots with recent Remake success". Problem is, they have to contend with Crash in that same category as well. To me Crash wins, but I can see other people swapping them based on who they like more.

Spoiler: E Tier

So a lot of characters in this tier I think would be easy to predict additions if it weren't for previously added fighters.

- Castlevania already had 2 new fighters and made Alucard an Assist Trophy (Soma, Shanoa)

- Namco -just- had a character added (Tales, Mr Driller, Soul Calibur)

- Square recently had Sephiroth (The World Ends With You, Octopath)

- Microsoft has had 2 fighters already (Master Chief, Ori, Battletoads)

It doesn't outright deconfirm this lot, but boy does it make it hard to seriously imagine them making it in. But just imagine if we live in the timeline Battletoads are added to Smash....

More serious contenders in the Meme, I mean, E tier, are some Pokemon, additional reps to 1st party franchises (Off the Hook, Birdo, Tingle), couple Indies, and a lot of Mobile gaming reps (Amber for Genshin Impact, Amiya for Arknights, Princess Pecorine for Princess Connect Re:Dive).

Oh, and because of Rapper Mario leak I will give Fortnite a ghost of a chance.

I was not going to bother including Sigma -but- it turns out he was a major antagonist in Marvel vs Capcom Infinite. Maybe Capcom wants to bring back Sigma some more?

Professor Layton and Jibanyan (Yo-Kai as a whole) would have been in D tier if it wasn't for the whole shutting down of North American operations business.

Frogger, Tetris, and Tingle honestly, are here as the "haha funny meme joke picks", as well as some super retro characters. Have to have a few of these

Spoiler: Sir Not Appearing In This Film Tier

Sora is the big one I wanted to talk about. I just don't see a world Disney will allow it, sad to say .

A lot of these are more Playstation centric characters. The only character I think even has a "Chance" is Ratchet & Clank (and I think that's like a 0.1%, thus E tier)

Mortal Kombat would have to sacrifice too much of their identity to be able to fit in. Even Doom Slayer and Master Chief will be fine after the touch ups they would presumably need.

Five Nights at Freddies? Please....

TF2 (Heavy) has way too many votes on Global Smash Roster (I guess the link got posted in the TF2 Subreddit or something). Valve rep is not happening.

The Pokemon in this tier, while I would love to fight as, missed their shot in Smash. Same for Fawful and Vaati (and the Toads imo).

Again, for this tier if anyone -does- make it in, be sure to @ me or something to rub it in my face , but I wanted to be on the record regarding them as "No" (Unless I change my mind like I did for Doom Slayer).

I really don't understand why people think Phoenix has a good shot, is it because of that 4chan Horoscope that claimed he'd be the last fighter? So I'd probably move him down to C tier if I was feeling generous.
I'd also probably swap A and C tier save for Revali, move Amy Rose way down (why would she be the second Sonic character?), then put Doomguy, Ahri and Master chief in B tier and Laharl and Adol in C tier

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

Bro just admit you have no clue what you're talking about, it's not rare if every Darkstalkers crossover has more than Morrigan, Spencer is literally a playable character in MvC3, having one of the most iconic moves in the community with Bionic Arm and one of the best Spencers ended up working for Capcom to make Infinite, which also kept Spencer. Just because it's not your thing doesn't mean you're magically right and that Teppen doesn't actually exist and acting like GnGR paying respect to the originals while also doing new stuff that didn't exist in the franchise including branching paths means it's actually the same as the original is flatout ****ing wrong

OK, OK! I'm wrong, I get it! Alright? No need to be such a pain in the butt about it!

 

[Mushufasa]

I really don't understand why people think Phoenix has a good shot, is it because of that 4chan Horoscope that claimed he'd be the last fighter? So I'd probably move him down to C tier if I was feeling generous.
I'd also probably swap A and C tier save for Revali, move Amy Rose way down (why would she be the second Sonic character?), then put Doomguy, Ahri and Master chief in B tier and Laharl and Adol in C tier

Thanks for taking a look at it!

Yep Phoenix's placement is definitely bumped up in part due to the Rapping Mario post on 4Chan. After the Grinch leak I definitely learned to never trust stuff like that 100%, but I honestly think Phoenix has a great shot anyway. Bumped from A to S basically.

Swapping A and C entirely I can actually understand coming from a certain point of view. Swap Zelda, Dragalia Lost, Puyo Puyo, and Crash with Resident Evil, Ryu Hayabusa, Gen 8 Pokemon, Ring Fit, Amaterasu, Aiai, Tabuu. I know I have a lot more faith in more Zelda or Dragalia Lost than most!

I'm not sure if Ryu, Aiai, and Tabuu would make the cut if I were to swap them. That interview regarding Ryu, while it could just be developer talk not wanting to confirm nor deny, doesn't look to promising. I actually thought I was overrating Ryu's chances since I'm a bit of a Ninja Gaiden Fanboy , he probably belongs at the top of D tier.

I'll keep those tiers the same, personal biases and all, but I appreciate having another point of view!

Amy being the 2nd possible Sonic character is mostly process of elimination. Knuckles and Shadow are Assist Trophies, Tails is a Mii Costume, and Silver is in the background of a Sonic stage. Eggman is in S tier as one of the more likely picks (in my opinion of course ).

Now given the Spirit Tracks + Link situation, being in the stage is by no means a de-confirmation, but in my opinion it does hurt the character's chances. I think if we ignore the stage issue, Silver gets placed in B tier in Amy's spot, and Amy would be placed near the top of D Tier.

On the other hand, if Silver is off the table, who else from Sonic would be chosen? I put Sticks and Blaze in E tier since they are definitely side characters (as much as I like Blaze especially ). Let me know who you would put in Amy's place assuming no Silver, I'm genuinely curious since I might be out of date with my Sonic lore / current characters.

I think putting Doom Slayer higher is reasonable. I personally think he has the odds stacked against him, but it would be pretty cool to rip and tear in Smash! I guess to give more of my concerns with Doom Slayer, it's not so much the FPS genre thing or guns as it is, well, killing demons from Hell with chainsaws type of thing.

They could totally tone down Doom Slayer though, I mean look at Snake! Metal Gear Solid is some heavy stuff man, but Snake fits in like a glove.

I know League of Legends is one of , if not the, most popular games on the planet right now (I used to play back in Season 4 I believe), but I honestly can't justify putting Ahri any higher than E tier. League has so many champions that it's hard to pick just one to represent the game, and it's just so focused in the PC market rather than consoles.

It's a similar reason I have several Mobile Gacha characters in E tier; they're obviously very popular games, just hard to imagine them in Smash due to how focused it is on the Mobile market when Smash has yet to feature a prominently Mobile character (which I think Dragalia Lost could be the first since Nintendo owns it).

The only reason I have Ahri / LoL on the list at all is due to Wild Rift + Other projects of theirs expanding from just the PC player base. I think if Riot's side projects in the Runeterra universe pan out in the future between multiple consoles, Switch especially, maybe the odds will look better for Ahri or another LoL champion for Smash 6? (Or what about Teemo... heh heh )

Master Chief's odds would be so much better if Minecraft and Banjo weren't both owned by Microsoft. As is, it's hard to see -3- of the DLC characters all being from the same company, let alone the big M. I also bumped down Ori and Battletoad (lol) because of that. I would hate to be wrong though, Halo 2 + 3 summed up a good portion of my High School years. And I've actually seen some creative movesets for Chief as well to dissuade any worries I had about how he would play in Smash.

I think Laharl being higher can be justified, but Adol? How large / popular is the Ys series? I honestly knew nothing about Ys or Legend of Heroes / Falcom before doing research for this list. When I did look around I noticed these series got brought up quite a bit, so I figured they should at least make an appearance at the D tier.

 

[Dinoman96]

I think Phoenix being seen as a frontrunner has something to do with the notion that there has to be a Capcom character this pass and the likes of Resident Evil, Monster Hunter, Ghost N' Goblins and Devil May Cry have seemingly already been shot down with spirits/Mii outfits, and Ace Attorney is the only notable enough Capcom IP still left.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

I really can't see Euden happening at all, the game is seemingly dying and isn't very popular compared to Granblue Fantasy and it's not sold in the EU. He's in a situation on par with Takamaru IMO.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

I think Phoenix being seen as a frontrunner has something to do with the notion that there has to be a Capcom character this pass and the likes of Resident Evil, Monster Hunter, Ghost N' Goblins and Devil May Cry have seemingly already been shot down with spirits/Mii outfits, and Ace Attorney is the only notable enough Capcom IP still left.

People haven't learned from Kazuya I guess
The RE spirit event may not necessarily be a deconfirmation; it could be a red herring.

 

[Theguy123]

I’m hoping the last character is Layton. I could see Layton getting in and then his mii wave would probably be

Phoenix Wright
Shadow the hedgehog
Arle
Descole
Hollow knight

With the theming being characters who have solved big mysteries

It would explain why we haven’t seen a Phoenix Wright mii costume or spirits yet when they’ve gone through tons off capcom franchises already in this pass and it would explain why hollow knight hasn’t been a deluxe yet since it’s one of the ones where people expected it to have happened by now since both of them have solve mysteries

 

[Hex D. Jess]

People haven't learned from Kazuya I guess
The RE spirit event may not necessarily be a deconfirmation; it could be a red herring.

Which is why I think we're getting a Pokémon.

 

[3BitSaurus]

I know League of Legends is one of , if not the, most popular games on the planet right now (I used to play back in Season 4 I believe), but I honestly can't justify putting Ahri any higher than E tier. League has so many champions that it's hard to pick just one to represent the game, and it's just so focused in the PC market rather than consoles.

It's a similar reason I have several Mobile Gacha characters in E tier; they're obviously very popular games, just hard to imagine them in Smash due to how focused it is on the Mobile market when Smash has yet to feature a prominently Mobile character (which I think Dragalia Lost could be the first since Nintendo owns it).

The only reason I have Ahri / LoL on the list at all is due to Wild Rift + Other projects of theirs expanding from just the PC player base. I think if Riot's side projects in the Runeterra universe pan out in the future between multiple consoles, Switch especially, maybe the odds will look better for Ahri or another LoL champion for Smash 6? (Or what about Teemo... heh heh )

To be fair, that Tier Maker (not your list, the maker itself lol) looks extremely biased towards rumors. That's probably why Ahri is the only LoL rep and Matoi is the only PS rep. And I do agree that if it wasn't for Wild Rift and League's IP expansion, it would be a lot harder to take it as a serious contender.

As a sidenote, Amber as the only Genshin Impact rep made me laugh. Makes me wonder if whoever made the list just googled the game's title and then stuck the first character that showed up in there lol.

 

[Theguy123]

People haven't learned from Kazuya I guess
The RE spirit event may not necessarily be a deconfirmation; it could be a red herring.

To be fair though the difference between the 2 is that Resident evil spirits were new to smash and weren’t returning and they were dropped right after pass 2 was announced which felt like an indication that they weren’t in this pass.

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

People haven't learned from Kazuya I guess

I guess not. A shame, too.

 

[MasterCheef]

random question if we had as much representation for Xenoblade in Smash ( 8 characters ) rather than Fire Emblem.

do you think Xenoblade would be as popular? as Fire Emblem more popular? or still less?

 

[Hex D. Jess]

Xenoblade doesn't exist have nearly as many games nor does it exist for as long as Fire Emblem does so having 8 characters would be super weird.

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

I'm still not sure why they sold Heihachi's mii costume early but my best guess is they were still deciding whether or not to go with Heihachi or Kazuya and maybe Jin was somewhere in there too but in case they went with Heihachi, they'd want to sell the Heihachi costume earlier because who would buy a costume of the same character as a fighter in the same timeframe?

 

[Theguy123]

random question if we had as much representation for Xenoblade in Smash ( 8 characters ) rather than Fire Emblem.

do you think Xenoblade would be as popular? as Fire Emblem more popular? or still less?

probably more popular than FE. Okay haven’t played any Xenoblade games but I get the idea that most characters are unique and not just a sword user. They’d be instantly loved more than FE

 

[Mushufasa]

I think Phoenix being seen as a frontrunner has something to do with the notion that there has to be a Capcom character this pass and the likes of Resident Evil, Monster Hunter, Ghost N' Goblins and Devil May Cry have seemingly already been shot down with spirits/Mii outfits, and Ace Attorney is the only notable enough Capcom IP still left.

Oh right I forgot about the Resident Evil spirit event. I never really put too much stock into the Spirits thing. I suppose it might hurt their chances, but it can't outright deconfirm.

And I guess the same hesitations I have with Doom Slayer could also be said about Resident Evil. Have to neuter a bunch of characters running around blowing up Zombie Heads Maybe I should put all Resident Evil fighters -and- Doom Slayer in C tier. Have to give up a bit of their identity to fit into Smash, but hey if it worked for Snake it could work for them.

I really can't see Euden happening at all, the game is seemingly dying and isn't very popular compared to Granblue Fantasy and it's not sold in the EU. He's in a situation on par with Takamaru IMO.

From what I've researched the 'Dying' aspect might be hyperbole. Granted a good portion of the research was just watching Delzethin's video on Euden. They're slowing down content being released for the game, but that just means longer waits between content. Is it a similar situation with other Cygames projects? Nothing wrong with matching the amount of content being planned for a game and released to the amount of revenue it generates. Perhaps it's just an adjustment rather than a death sentence.

Now the unavailability in a lot of EU regions is definitely concerning, but as was pointed out in Delzethin's video, regional availability issues never stopped Lucas getting in. Certainly a detractor but not the end-all-be-all.

To be fair, that Tier Maker (not your list, the maker itself lol) looks extremely biased towards rumors. That's probably why Ahri is the only LoL rep and Matoi is the only PS rep. And I do agree that if it wasn't for Wild Rift and League's IP expansion, it would be a lot harder to take it as a serious contender.

As a sidenote, Amber as the only Genshin Impact rep made me laugh. Makes me wonder if whoever made the list just googled the game's title and then stuck the first character that showed up in there lol.

My apologies, I'm the one who made the Tier List maker itself. I feel Ahri would be League's most probable Smash representative. (Plus I didn't want to list 20 League champs as possibilities, Ahri is sort of a stand in if you like League's chances but don't particularly think it'll be her)

I don't know much about Phantasy Star or Genshin Impact, would there be better (or rather, more likely) representatives for them? I know Paimon is popular (she has a Global emote on Twitch), but she looks a little.... small(?) to be a fighter?

 

[Hex D. Jess]

Now the unavailability in a lot of EU regions is definitely concerning, but as was pointed out in Delzethin's video, regional availability issues never stopped Lucas getting in. Certainly a detractor but not the end-all-be-all.

I don't remember where, but I heard once that Sakurai added Lucas under the assumption that Mother 3 was coming to the west and that he wouldn't have added him otherwise.
Edit: Found it
Doesn't cite a specific source but from what I know, SG usually knows what they're talking about

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[Bobthealligator]

People haven't learned from Kazuya I guess
The RE spirit event may not necessarily be a deconfirmation; it could be a red herring.

It was 2 years ago so I do think counting an RE character out, along with Pokemon and Ring Fit's spirit event, maybe a tad closed minded.

Also addressing the "Rapper Mario" in the room, I honestly think that was intended as a joke and somewhere on the internet, someone is laughing their arse off that people are taking it seriously. The "character with a following in Japan and the West, that will cause some backlash and won't break the internet" is a super vague statement that could easily be argued to apply to any character and "a character from a franchise already in Smash" doesn't fit Kazuya that well at all. I rather doubt you'd describe a Mii costume and a Taunt cameo as "being in Smash".

 

[Dinoman96]

I don't remember where, but I heard once that Sakurai added Lucas under the assumption that Mother 3 was coming to the west and that he wouldn't have added him otherwise.

Source Gaming made that claim.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

I do think it's worth pointing out that Lucas was the very last region exclusive character added to Smash, and he even initially got cut in Smash 4. Literally every single newcomer from Smash 4 and beyond come from games that have had proper worldwide releases.

 

[HYRULESHERO42]

I don't get how this isn't basic copyright logic and this mindset of "if they didn't say it, then it's not true" when there's enough pieces for us to figure it out on our own honestly annoys me.

You realize that copyright laws exist so people don’t have to “figure it out on our own” right?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

random question if we had as much representation for Xenoblade in Smash ( 8 characters ) rather than Fire Emblem.

do you think Xenoblade would be as popular? as Fire Emblem more popular? or still less?

For the casual Smash audience, probably more popular.

For the hardcore kind who ****s on Fire Emblem, it'd be even more hated on than Fire Emblem given that there's only 3 Xenoblade games, which is less than the amount of FE games with playable characters, let alone the total amount of FE games. Not to mention FE being literally 3 times older than Xenoblade, so there'd be even more hatred for Xenoblade because it's not a "legacy IP" yet gets more reps than Zelda.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

It’s not just unavailable in the EU iirc, Dragalia’s pretty regionlocked across the globe which is counterproductive to wanting to showcase a new series.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

You realize that copyright laws exist so people don’t have to “figure it out on our own” right?

Do you even know what you're talking about?

No Nintendo logo = they don't even have a stake in the IP anymore.

How many times to I have to repeat it?