Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Arcadenik]

That, and they retooled Miis into unique SSB versions(which is how a Mii is inserted into any game, remaking them to specific be based upon the game's settings. They're a bit different from a typical avatar, at least in Smash, as they don't represent their core games, the Wii Series or the Mii Games)

Yet another reason why the Wandering Heroes from StreetPass Mii Plaza: Find Mii I & II would be a good pick.

 

[Louie G.]

Part of why I gave a lot of attention toward the Chun-Li claims initially was because of xenother's similar sentiment about her back in 2018. I don't really know how much xenother is worth listening to on his own, but he's gotten things right before and it's generally a pretty good thing to have multiple people saying the same thing especially when it's something that there weren't a whole lot of people talking about at the time.

Possibly a coincidence, possibly a cross contamination of sources, but I found it pretty interesting that you had two people saying Chun-Li was present during development / planning when barely anybody considered her a valid possibility. Definitely enhanced the already intriguing claims of the 5ch leak.

IIRC though, it was Xenother who said Chun-Li ran into difficulties when creating a moveset. There is no way this is true as traditional 2D fighting game characters have just about the clearest cut movesets possible. This is the kind of thing I mean when saying that sometimes we have stuff come up that may have a sliver of validity with false assumptions or misinfo spruced in. The only thing I can imagine getting in Chun-Li's way is her charge inputs, which Terry has already implemented in his Rising Tackle so it's absolutely no longer an issue.

 

[Digital Hazard]

I think that the reason why, honestly. SSBU's base game was seriously limited with new content due to the focus on "EVERYONE IS HERE;" Only six original characters, one of which was a pseudo-clone, and a measly four new stages, two of which were allocated to system-sellers Super Mario Odyssey and Breath of the Wild. They may not have had time to add in another completely original fighter, especially one with the special command inputs.
Based on the note about Lloyd and Yuri, it seems like the rumors from the planning stages. I think Chun-Li was part of the original pitch, but at some point they realized "Aw nuts we don't have time" and went for Ken, fellow member of the Street Fighter trifecta and the moveset clone, who would've been recognizable as well and would take less effort to make.

Granted, this is all just theorizing. Chun-Li and the Tales reps got like a single sentence each so I can't really say for sure.

Regarding MOVESET issues... I refer you to captain Sharklord here



It may very well have just been time issues. MOVESET is what was said, but it could very well have just been time. PERHAPS it's easier said than done to implement the Street Fighter "charge character" mechanics into Smash, but I'm honestly just spitting at the wall while eating pizza rolls in regards to that. I'm personally leaning more towards "they didn't have MOVESET issues so much as they just didn't have TIME in base game to implement them"

Again, I really don't see it.

Every character in the base game have been very high requests since long minus Incineroar, who was an obligatory Pokémon + the most advertised final stage starter of its gen + Sakurai wanted a wrestler, Richter, who is an Echo Fighter + popular character in his series + Simon's moveset takes some stuff from him, and honestly, Ken, who Echo Fighter + iconic character to the industry.

I had seen Chun-Li support here and there, but not much in comparison to the other base game additions, if anything they spiked after Sephiroth. Could she appear as DLC? Maybe, but I just don't see her being in the base game planning over Ken.

1. I doubt it was them "not being able to settle on a moveset in time", that sounds like misreporting the "leak". The claim was probably that they eventually opted against a second unique character as that development is more time consuming.
2. The trailers aren't made in the very earliest stages of development, because things can still change then and characters can be scrapped. The "leak" comes from the period when the roster was still being decided, which would predate the period of trailer creation.
3. But if the intention was to include an original character, they wouldn't have gone for Ken.
4. They passed on several characters that would've been feasible echoes. If they had added a second original SF character, that would've put it far ahead of the next closest third-party series at the time. Perhaps at that point they would've chosen to devote resources elsewhere instead of giving the series a third character. Which no third-party series has to date.

I'm not saying the claim is true, but I don't think these points debunk it.

Considering Ken was from a high-res CGI trailer that had to take plenty of budget, I highly doubt he wasn't planned since the early stages.

Honestly your third point is kind of just "Yeah but if!"

And your fourth point kinda falls in the same as the former.

 

[SharkLord]

Part of why I gave a lot of attention toward the Chun-Li claims initially was because of xenother's similar sentiment about her back in 2018. I don't really know how much xenother is worth listening to on his own, but he's gotten things right before and it's generally a pretty good thing to have multiple people saying the same thing especially when it's something that there weren't a whole lot of people talking about at the time.

Possibly a coincidence, possibly a cross contamination of sources, but I found it pretty interesting that you had two people saying Chun-Li was present during development / planning when barely anybody considered her a valid possibility.

IIRC though, it was Xenother who said Chun-Li ran into difficulties when creating a moveset. There is no way this is true as traditional 2D fighting game characters have just about the clearest cut movesets possible. This is the kind of thing I mean when saying that sometimes we have stuff come up that may have a sliver of validity with false assumptions or misinfo spruced in. The only thing I can imagine getting in Chun-Li's way is her charge inputs, which Terry has already implemented in his Rising Tackle so it's absolutely no longer an issue.

Actually, what has Xenother gotten right? I don't know my leakers very well, so I'll need a rundown on his rights and wrongs.

 

[RileyXY1]

The fact that Ken was in a CGI trailer makes it unlikely for him to be a last minute replacement for Chun-Li.

 

[Digital Hazard]

I'll give you the echo fighter advantage point, but Chun-Li is pretty popular with fans of her series too? In fact moreso than both Ryu and Ken.

I am not putting any doubt on that, but

had the Echo Fighter advantage

 

[Louie G.]

Actually, what has Xenother gotten right? I don't know my leakers very well, so I'll need a rundown on his rights and wrongs.

I don't recall so much of what he specifically got right tbh, I just know that he's one of the more trusted people in Verge's circle.

In any case my initial faith in that leak didn't lie so much in his word explicitly but rather that two people were saying something similar about Chun-Li before she was a commonly speculated or discussed character.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I am not putting any doubt on that, but

Well yes, I said I gave you that point. My comment was focused with the other point, cause you worded it like Richter had it and Chun didn't.

 

[N3ON]

Considering Ken was from a high-res CGI trailer that had to take plenty of budget, I highly doubt he wasn't planned since the early stages.

Greninja had a high-res CGI trailer and he wasn't planned from the earliest stages.

Honestly your third point is kind of just "Yeah but if!"

And your fourth point kinda falls in the same as the former.

Right... because the claim might be false, but there's no lapse in the logic. If it's true, it's a reasonable explanation.

It's not like Imran's Byleth planned in 2015 claim which, without significant liberties in interpretation, makes no sense either way.

 

[cothero]

Considering the smash team finally got to work together (according to Sakurai), do you guys think march is a safe month for FP9 release?

 

[SharkLord]

The fact that Ken was in a CGI trailer makes it unlikely for him to be a last minute replacement for Chun-Li.

I mean, from the looks of it the rumor was info from the planning stages. I highly doubt they were outright replacing fighters at the time they were making the trailers, especially seeing as Ken is a borderline semiclone. He's a lot easier than an entirely original fighter, but he's not at the level of last-minute replacement easy.

 

[Louie G.]

Considering the smash team finally got to work together (according to Sakurai), do you guys think march is a safe month for FP9 release?

I think March is safe on the basis that this is when the next batch of amiibo will be releasing. Amiibo theory is still going strong and a two / three month buffer seems to be a reasonable assumption moving ahead anyway.

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

Ok time to bust open my crackpot. Yeah I could totally see this being a mess of a broken telephone game between the leaker and the information they heard. Maybe it's possible that Ken and Chun-Li were meant to appear in the base game. Not the first time a clone (ok Ken isn't exactly the cloneiest of clones) and a new fighter have been revealed together. See Lucina and Robin's reveal. See Simon and Richter's reveal. Obviously this would have had to be something scrapped before proper development.

Play with me here for a second under the assumption that Chun-Li is DLC, perhaps there were always plans to include her alongside Ken but for who-knows-why, maybe Capcom wanted some of that sweet DLC pie. So from the leakers perspective, they could have heard about Chun-Li because that was the Street Fighter character that was bigger and would have had more work done for her but they didn't know anything about Ken's inclusion and then they see Ken in the launch version of the game and assume that Ken just outright replaced her.

This is a lot of assumptions and hypotheticals but if we live in the hypothetical timeline where Chun-Li does in fact appear as a DLC fighter, this is what I think would be the situation behind her. If not, then who knows. We may really never know the ins and out of Smash development and if this 5chan leak was ever real to begin with. All for the fun of spec though, right?

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Considering the smash team finally got to work together (according to Sakurai), do you guys think march is a safe month for FP9 release?

I think a rough release window of March/April, June/July, and September/October for 9, 10, & 11 feels realistic.

 

[Dinoman96]

Yeah I don't believe in this whole "Ken replacing Chun-Li" business.

For pete's sake, Ken was on Sakurai's mind as far as back as Smash 4: he was the only Street Fighter character besides Ryu to even have any representation, with a trophy and music tracks.

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

I hear some Direct rumours and I'm kind of dreading it low key because of Smash. What I mean is that I think it's too soon for a hypothetical Direct to reveal full character reveal but it would probably be just the right time for Nintendo to pull another "ARMS character" type reveal. Sorry for being a doomer but that period of Smash spec was just some of the most boring, no offence.

 

[SharkLord]

Considering the smash team finally got to work together (according to Sakurai), do you guys think march is a safe month for FP9 release?

Based off of Amiibo Theory and the average 2-3 month gap between fighters, I think we've all pretty much agreed CP9 is in March. Personally, I think it's either going to be Monster Hunter for a Hero-esque push, Lloyd to coincide with the Tales livestream like MineCon, or a miscellaneous smaller character like Euden or something because based on precedent we'll probably be getting two reveals at E3, which would be the perfect time to close off the pass and SSBU as a whole. They'd probably save the bigger characters for then, so March would be the last chance for a more low-key reveal.

 

[Digital Hazard]

Greninja had a high-res CGI trailer and he wasn't planned from the earliest stages.

Fair point, but I still highly doubt it as there was always a spot for a Pokémon, just which wasn't decided by day 1.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I hear some Direct rumours and I'm kind of dreading it low key because of Smash. What I mean is that I think it's too soon for a hypothetical Direct to reveal full character reveal but it would probably be just the right time for Nintendo to pull another "ARMS character" type reveal. Sorry for being a doomer but that period of Smash spec was just some of the most boring, no offence.

Don't worry, the month is still young. We don't know how Nintendo plans to announce things quite yet.

Although, have any of those rumors come from anybody high-profile?

 

[RileyXY1]

Based off of Amiibo Theory and the average 2-3 month gap between fighters, I think we've all pretty much agreed CP9 is in March. Personally, I think it's either going to be Monster Hunter for a Hero-esque push, Lloyd to coincide with the Tales livestream like MineCon, or a miscellaneous smaller character like Euden or something because based on precedent we'll probably be getting two reveals at E3, which would be the perfect time to close off the pass and SSBU as a whole. They'd probably save the bigger characters for then, so March would be the last chance for a more low-key reveal.

I don't think that there will be a character at the Tales livestream because it was delayed.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

It should be noted also that Chun-Li being “considered” or whatever in that rumor doesn’t mean Ken wasn’t.

We have plenty of other Echo fighters that were a part of a larger trend. Ken probably wasn’t a replacement for Chun-Li: there’s more that points to him being a part of a trend to add more characters based on ease access to assets for the game as opposed to a totally new character.

Unless, of course, the other echo fighters were made instead of entirely unique characters from those same series which...isn’t the case.

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

Lowkey the real treasure that'd come with Chun-li is music and such from non-SF2 Street Fighter games

Like crank up the SFIII character select theme, man!

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

Or just throw in Elena's BEATS IN MY HEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD!

Plus as I said before in my Stupid Images, Chun-li would technically be TWO Spirit upgrades if Alpha Chun-li is an alt costume for her.

I hear some Direct rumours and I'm kind of dreading it low key because of Smash. What I mean is that I think it's too soon for a hypothetical Direct to reveal full character reveal but it would probably be just the right time for Nintendo to pull another "ARMS character" type reveal. Sorry for being a doomer but that period of Smash spec was just some of the most boring, no offence.

Kinda sitting here waiting for a Direct of SOME kind/Twitter dump because like... only thing we know for sure is like, Super Mario 3D World + Bowser's Fury, and we don't even know what the Bowser's Fury end of that actually is. They gotta say SOMETHIN about what to expect, even if Smash isn't part of it.

 

[N3ON]

The argument really is, do you believe they intended to give SF a second original character? Because if they had, it obviously would've been Chun-Li, not Ken. And if they had, and it fell through, because of timing and resources (which is how most things fall through) opting for an echo is a plausible course of action. And if you go for a Ryu echo, it's obviously going to be Ken.

The claim is perfectly sound. And if you don't believe it, that's fine. I'm not saying I believe it. It's just a guy on the internet saying something, it could very easily be fake. But if it is fake, it's just because things on the internet are often untrue... not because it doesn't make sense.

 

[PeridotGX]

I hear some Direct rumours and I'm kind of dreading it low key because of Smash. What I mean is that I think it's too soon for a hypothetical Direct to reveal full character reveal but it would probably be just the right time for Nintendo to pull another "ARMS character" type reveal. Sorry for being a doomer but that period of Smash spec was just some of the most boring, no offence.

the darkest timeline (for most people, i personally wouldn't mind)

 

[chocolatejr9]

the darkest timeline (for most people, i personally wouldn't mind)

So would everyone be claiming Sinnoh or Galar?

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

People jumped on the Chun-li leak because of Sephiroth breaking a trend. Is there a possibility that she could get in? Or if she was considered at one point? Yeah, absolutely but the only reason she’s being talked about now is because of Sephiroth.

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

Don't worry, the month is still young. We don't know how Nintendo plans to announce things quite yet.

Although, have any of those rumors come from anybody high-profile?

Just Direct playlists updating like 4 times or so. I mean I don't want to diss ARMS because I know there are fans for it so I'll just state it as my own personal opinion. I think ARMS was a clever game to do that type of reveal as even without a rep already in Smash, the ARMS position could really go to any one of the higher profile characters unlike Street Fighter for example in which there's no way they wouldn't pick anybody but Ryu (and of course, they picked Ryu in Smash 4 and he's with us still). However, I just didn't care for ARMS and so I felt like it was just 3 months of guessing which one of these characters I don't really know are gonna be in Smash.

Also that type of reveal just takes out the cool surprise factor of things. I definitely wouldn't have been expecting ARMS and I'm usually warm to even the reveals that don't excite me much so it just kinda felt like the ARMS rep was just a long trudge to get something out of the way.

the darkest timeline (for most people, i personally wouldn't mind)

You play with FIRE!

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

the darkest timeline (for most people, i personally wouldn't mind)

Then it turns out Pokemon Company really really wants to promote their mobile games and throws in a Pokemon Masters EX character!

"SEE? TECHNICALLY IT'S NOT A "POKEMON" IT'S A POKEMON TRAINER! AND THE SPIRITS ARE ALSO POKEMON TRAINERS SO SEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE? Please spend money on our mobile games NON MOBILE GAMES ARE A MYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYTH!"


- Some Pokemon Company exec/producer probably. Yep. Totally. Absolutely. I know it's true because a scarecrow told me. Scarecrow Law is absolute!

 

[N3ON]

I hear some Direct rumours and I'm kind of dreading it low key because of Smash. What I mean is that I think it's too soon for a hypothetical Direct to reveal full character reveal but it would probably be just the right time for Nintendo to pull another "ARMS character" type reveal. Sorry for being a doomer but that period of Smash spec was just some of the most boring, no offence.

They've literally done the ARMS method of reveal once, versus, idk, thirty-something otherwise normal reveals?

Consider it also happened when they launched the free ARMS trial. They probably just wanted to tie everything together, and leverage the Smash hype for the trial. There's no real reason to expect that to happen again, especially because it wouldn't work with most plausible candidates.

 

[SharkLord]

I hear some Direct rumours and I'm kind of dreading it low key because of Smash. What I mean is that I think it's too soon for a hypothetical Direct to reveal full character reveal but it would probably be just the right time for Nintendo to pull another "ARMS character" type reveal. Sorry for being a doomer but that period of Smash spec was just some of the most boring, no offence.

Given how close we are to March, which is presumably when CP9 would be revealed as per Amiibo Theory, if we had a direct now it would probably just give use the fighter straight-up like FP1 used to do. Even if there is a guessing game, two months while we just got Sephiroth a month ago doesn't sound nearly as bad as two months after the most divisive reveal in Smash history, followed by three months of nothing.

 

[Arcanir]

Slightly random question, just because I don't remember seeing any answers for this:

If we got a Monster Hunter, what would their home stage be? I can only assume it wouldn't be Ancestral Steppe because Rathalos already uses it, but not much else. What can the resident MH fans tell me?

Assuming they don't just double dip on Ancestral Steppe (which I think would be in the running), my guesses would be for Misty Peaks from Tri/Portable 3rd, Jurassic Frontier from Generations Ultimate, or Ancient Forest from World. Smash leans very heavily on the 'first area' and those three are the ones that fans of Generations (Ultimate) and World would experience first and get the most exposure to and are from the bigger (biggest in the case of World) releases of the franchise. All three also have varied locales that can be used for differentiating environments like caves, open fields, (destroyed) camp sites and so on. Outside of those three, there's also Deserted Island from Tri and Elder's Recess from World that they could choose as they both have reasons to be considered (first area of Tri that introduces many of its mechanics, a major area in World where three of the big fights take place), though I'm not as confidant in those two.

In terms of what monsters would appear, Those like Zinogre, Rathian, and Deviljho are givens, they're extremely popular/recurring monsters and they would probably not miss the chance to have them as hazards to cart Smashers with. The rest depend, but if they don't care about which games they appear in then those like Lagiacrus, Mitsuzine, Nergigante, Gore Magala, and Valstrax are also good candidates to appear.

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

They've literally done the ARMS method of reveal once, versus, idk, thirty-something otherwise normal reveals?

Consider it also happened when they launched the free ARMS trial. They probably just wanted to tie everything together, and leverage the Smash hype for the trial. There's no real reason to expect that to happen again, especially because it wouldn't work with most plausible candidates.

Yeah you got a point, I'm most certainly just irrationally dooming. To me that ARMS reveal seemed like Min Min was delayed due to the lockdowns and there was just a perfect way to keep people busy and I know restrictions are coming back into force in Japan.

And you're dead on about how it wouldn't work for most plausible candidates. I saw a mock-up for a graphic that "A character from Golden Sun will join Smash" and I was thinking about how that was the most peculiar thing. Like come on, if there's someone from Golden Sun, there's no way it wouldn't be Isaac.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

the darkest timeline (for most people, i personally wouldn't mind)

No the darkest timeline would be "Wild pokemon appears in the Galar region!".

This gives people hope that we could get a gen 3 or 5 Pokemon.

 

[Louie G.]

People jumped on the Chun-li leak because of Sephiroth breaking a trend. Is there a possibility that she could get in? Or if she was considered at one point? Yeah, absolutely but the only reason she’s being talked about now is because of Sephiroth.

I dunno if you meant it this way or not, but when this is said it always comes off as talking down to people who are genuinely happy that characters they like feel like a legitimate possibility, to me.

I've talked about Chun-Li being one of the most glaring absences and most significant characters absent from the series months before Sephiroth popped up. I didn't think she had much of a chance because there was no precedent for expanding on third parties with brand new, fully unique characters yet (and I probably would have been laughed at for suggesting it). It was a matter of time, but I didn't think we'd get there until next game.

Nobody was talking about plenty of our hot candidates at the moment - Dante, Crash, Master Chief, I dunno - until Cloud broke down that barrier and showed the community that third parties didn't need to be "honorary Nintendo characters" or have that intensely strong bond. Snake and Sonic broke down a barrier before that and allowed people to talk about Mega Man and Pac-Man, etc. Are these the "only" reason people talked about these characters?

Sorry if I'm projecting this on the wrong person and that isn't what you meant, but I'm kinda tired of hearing people say this and how it's the "only" reason people are talking about these characters. It comes off extremely reductive toward how much genuine love there is toward Chun-Li, or Eggman, or whoever.

 

[Digital Hazard]

No the darkest timeline would be "Wild pokemon appears in the Galar region!".

This gives people hope that we could get a gen 3 or 5 Pokemon.

But what if it ends being a Gen 8 Pokémon anyway?

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

The fact that Ken was in a CGI trailer makes it unlikely for him to be a last minute replacement for Chun-Li.

I still find it ironic as hell how Ken got a CGI trailer while Ryu didn't.

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

I still find it ironic as hell how Ken got a CGI trailer while Ryu didn't.

I'm glad these trailers seem to be higher budget generally although I do notice some cut corners here and there but overall impressed with the quality of not just being gameplay trailers.

Most trailers post-Banjo were in some way cutting down on costs. Terry's was mostly based on classic sprites, Byleth used FE3H animation, Min Min used CG but it involved a lot of stills, Steve's CG was very simple and it seems like Sephiroth has probably had some of the most impressive animations since although a lot of the cinematography came from Advent Children so there's that.

Still I've been pleased with a majority of the trailers' quality and I'm super glad they're not just gameplay only reveals.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

But what if it ends being a Gen 8 Pokémon anyway?

Then we all die.

 

[3BitSaurus]

It should be noted also that Chun-Li being “considered” or whatever in that rumor doesn’t mean Ken wasn’t.

We have plenty of other Echo fighters that were a part of a larger trend. Ken probably wasn’t a replacement for Chun-Li: there’s more that points to him being a part of a trend to add more characters based on ease access to assets for the game as opposed to a totally new character.

Unless, of course, the other echo fighters were made instead of entirely unique characters from those same series which...isn’t the case.

Personally, I'm reading that theory as (from the leaker's pov): "I know Chun-Li was on the table at some point, but Ken got in instead so he must have been chosen over her".

So it's less that Ken is a replacement, and more that they had a choice and chose Ken willingly.

Assuming any of this is true, anyway.

Assuming they don't just double dip on Ancestral Steppe (which I think would be in the running), my guesses would be for Misty Peaks from Tri/Portable 3rd, Jurassic Frontier from Generations Ultimate, or Ancient Forest from World. Smash leans very heavily on the 'first area' and those three are the ones that fans of Generations (Ultimate) and World would experience first and get the most exposure to and are from the bigger (biggest in the case of World) releases of the franchise. All three also have varied locales that can be used for differentiating environments like caves, open fields, (destroyed) camp sites and so on. Outside of those three, there's also Deserted Island from Tri and Elder's Recess from World that they could choose as they both have reasons to be considered (first area of Tri that introduces many of its mechanics, a major area in World where three of the big fights take place), though I'm not as confidant in those two.

In terms of what monsters would appear, Those like Zinogre, Rathian, and Deviljho are givens, they're extremely popular/recurring monsters and they would probably not miss the chance to have them as hazards to cart Smashers with. The rest depend, but if they don't care about which games they appear in then those like Lagiacrus, Mitsuzine, Nergigante, Gore Magala, and Valstrax are also good candidates to appear.

Huh, I did hear Deserted Island's name quite a bit searching for MH players' preferred areas. Actually, isn't the Rathalos WoL sub-area located on an island? That would be a funny little coincidence.

Regarding monsters, what about Kirin? It's a decently iconic monster, to the point where even a complete MH noob like me knows about its existence.

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

Then we all die.

I think 2021 has that in store for humanity, SWSH rep or not.