Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Guynamednelson]

Plot twist: Mario Golf Club isn't a new game, it's a new piece of Mario merch, literally a golf club with Mario's face on it

well they aren't making a new mario golf game anyway, so...

 

[Cutie Gwen]

So I will respond to this one briefly because it isn't just simple dismissal of his chances for no reason and is an actual talking point.

See, even @papagenos has taken this stance of thinking that Geno is possible after this returning Mii Costume is some sort of hypocrisy, but it really isn't.

There is a difference between saying 'Returning Mii Costumes deconfirm, but not Geno's because we want him' and saying 'Returning Mii Costumes don't deconfirm, but some of these characters have other things against them, and Geno doesn't' and I really think everyone sees Geno fans who are still rooting for him being either delusional or the former instead of the latter, of which I am a part of.

When new information comes in, one is allowed to take that information in and come to a new conclusion, and the results of that conclusion may or may not differ. The conclusion I've come to was that I previously thought that since some costumes had already not returned that some would just be cut, however seeing the Chocobo Hat return with Geno and that they have clearly made the effort for each third party Mii Costume to return from Smash 4 over time, this means it was always part of the ideal and contracted for them to return and therefore has no weight against them being playable.

This means that I open the window for characters like Tails, Heihachi and the now inevitable Lloyd Irving and Monster Hunter costumes that WILL return. This also happens to apply to Geno, however it wasn't until the Chocobo Hat returned with Geno's costume that people such as myself realized we had been living by another stupid fan rule. It's the 'Spirits Deconfirm' fan rule all over again.

Frankly, the only costumes you should maybe worry about are new ones, ones exclusive to buying a Fighter's Pass, or Deluxe/Premiums, and that is the order of severity. New costumes are the least to worry about because honestly, as long as content keeps coming, these things can change in the future so long as fan demand stays strong. Remember, Spring Man was legitimately considered by Sakurai to be that playable character for ARMS despite being s Spirit, costume and an AT. So, costumes like Travis would fall here.

Things like Rex and his costume is a bit rougher because they are technically more expensive and locked behind purchasing other content, but I wouldn't rule them out entirely.

However, Deluxe/Premium costumes are a whole different ball game. These are painstakingly made to be as accurate to the character as possible and occasionally even come with music tracks when applicable, and thus so much effort being put into them to be like the character really feels like there are no intents for that character to be made playable. Thus characters like Sans, Cuphead, Vault Boy and Bomberman are kinda screwed in comparison.

So Geno's still in because you came to the conclusion "Oh it's a fan rule" after Geno got a costume, gotcha

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Miracle of the Mist isn't even that bad of a title.


It makes me wonder how many people here would go "wow that sounds terrible" to titles like...

Majora's Mask
Wind Waker
Twilight Princess
Skyward Sword
Phantom Hourglass
Spirit Tracks
Breath of the Wild

....if they were leaked before.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Miracle of the Mist isn't even that bad of a title.


It makes me wonder how many people here would go "wow that sounds terrible" to titles like...

Majora's Mask
Wind Waker
Twilight Princess
Skyward Sword
Phantom Hourglass
Spirit Tracks
Breath of the Wild

....if they were leaked before.

Tbf Breath of the Wild is a crap name as those other titles all have something to do with a core item in the game, Miracle of the Mist actually sounds more Zelda-y in that regard imo

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Miracle of the Mist is a cool name, imo

Though if it doesn't have brightly colored ninjas, I'll raise an eyebrow.

-Looks at the Yiga clan- ...Never mind.

But yeah, the Zelda series has lots of unique and fun names, really.

 

[ForsakenM]

I watched his video. His stance is "If there's a 3rd Pass, then maybe. For for FP2? No way."

I did too, and he ACTUALLY said it was hypocritical to think this way about Mii Costumes, but he's wrong.

You can change your opinion to say returning costumes don;t deconfirm and still think characters like Heihachi or Monster Hunter have many other things going against them.

 

[N3ON]

Did the Team Ninja Twitter account retweet the Age of Calamity Spirit event Announcement? Is it a good thing or bad thing?

An irrelevant thing, mostly. This is the first KT content Ultimate has gotten since base, so them drawing attention to it is understandable in a way not requiring further theorizing.

So I will respond to this one briefly because it isn't just simple dismissal of his chances for no reason and is an actual talking point.

See, even @papagenos has taken this stance of thinking that Geno is possible after this returning Mii Costume is some sort of hypocrisy, but it really isn't.

There is a difference between saying 'Returning Mii Costumes deconfirm, but not Geno's because we want him' and saying 'Returning Mii Costumes don't deconfirm, but some of these characters have other things against them, and Geno doesn't' and I really think everyone sees Geno fans who are still rooting for him being either delusional or the former instead of the latter, of which I am a part of.

When new information comes in, one is allowed to take that information in and come to a new conclusion, and the results of that conclusion may or may not differ. The conclusion I've come to was that I previously thought that since some costumes had already not returned that some would just be cut, however seeing the Chocobo Hat return with Geno and that they have clearly made the effort for each third party Mii Costume to return from Smash 4 over time, this means it was always part of the ideal and contracted for them to return and therefore has no weight against them being playable.

This means that I open the window for characters like Tails, Heihachi and the now inevitable Lloyd Irving and Monster Hunter costumes that WILL return. This also happens to apply to Geno, however it wasn't until the Chocobo Hat returned with Geno's costume that people such as myself realized we had been living by another stupid fan rule. It's the 'Spirits Deconfirm' fan rule all over again.

Frankly, the only costumes you should maybe worry about are new ones, ones exclusive to buying a Fighter's Pass, or Deluxe/Premiums, and that is the order of severity. New costumes are the least to worry about because honestly, as long as content keeps coming, these things can change in the future so long as fan demand stays strong. Remember, Spring Man was legitimately considered by Sakurai to be that playable character for ARMS despite being s Spirit, costume and an AT. So, costumes like Travis would fall here.

Things like Rex and his costume is a bit rougher because they are technically more expensive and locked behind purchasing other content, but I wouldn't rule them out entirely.

However, Deluxe/Premium costumes are a whole different ball game. These are painstakingly made to be as accurate to the character as possible and occasionally even come with music tracks when applicable, and thus so much effort being put into them to be like the character really feels like there are no intents for that character to be made playable. Thus characters like Sans, Cuphead, Vault Boy and Bomberman are kinda screwed in comparison.

People who have reached this conclusion only after the Geno costume are quite transparent, though.

No, Mii costumes don't 100%, definitively kill the chances of the character still showing up.

But continuing to expect them won't end well. Especially since putting one back on the table puts them all back on the table.

Miracle of the Mist isn't even that bad of a title.


It makes me wonder how many people here would go "wow that sounds terrible" to titles like...

Majora's Mask
Wind Waker
Twilight Princess
Skyward Sword
Phantom Hourglass
Spirit Tracks
Breath of the Wild

....if they were leaked before.

Breath of the Wild is a ****ing weird name.

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

Did the Team Ninja Twitter account retweet the Age of Calamity Spirit event Announcement? Is it a good thing or bad thing?

I can confirm that they did indeed retweet it

Whether that means anything beyond just retweeting something relating to a game they worked on... I kinda doubt it

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I did too, and he ACTUALLY said it was hypocritical to think this way about Mii Costumes, but he's wrong.

You can change your opinion to say returning costumes don;t deconfirm and still think characters like Heihachi or Monster Hunter have many other things going against them.

If I may ask.

Why is Geno literally the only case where this would apply? Why do mega stars like Heihachi or Monster Hunter suddenly have things against them that would prevent this possibility?

 

[chocolatejr9]

So Geno's still in because you came to the conclusion "Oh it's a fan rule" after Geno got a costume, gotcha

If every rule is a fan rule, then NONE OF THEM ARE.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Fan rules are only rules in the sense of precedent and logic which yeah means Geno is exempt from them

 

[Cutie Gwen]

If every rule is a fan rule, then NONE OF THEM ARE.

You know what I say to that? It sounds to me, like you're trying to force this fanrule on me.



For real it's so easy to dismiss literally anything as a fanrule, I'm convinced that everyone who uses it unironically is a troll at this point

 

[PeridotGX]

Miracle of the Mist isn't even that bad of a title.


It makes me wonder how many people here would go "wow that sounds terrible" to titles like...

Majora's Mask
Wind Waker
Twilight Princess
Skyward Sword
Phantom Hourglass
Spirit Tracks
Breath of the Wild

....if they were leaked before.

when BoTW's title was revealed, I really hated it and promised to always call it "Zelda U". I don't mind it now, but I thought it was terrible for about a week.

 

[cashregister9]

At this point the term "Fan Rule" just seems like a catch all phrase used to prove someone wrong for the sake of proving them wrong.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Miracle of the Mist isn't even that bad of a title.


It makes me wonder how many people here would go "wow that sounds terrible" to titles like...

Majora's Mask
Wind Waker
Twilight Princess
Skyward Sword
Phantom Hourglass
Spirit Tracks
Breath of the Wild

....if they were leaked before.

Spirit Tracks is a lame name. Granted it's hard to find cool names when the theme of the game is trains, but something like Spirit Engine would work better. And I agree that Mist of Miracles is way better.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Spirit Tracks is a lame name. Granted it's hard to find cool names when the theme of the game is trains, but something like Spirit Engine would work better. And I agree that Mist of Miracles is way better.

Trains are super cool from an aesthetic standpoint and Spirit Tracks is the best over the top view Zelda game y'all Americans just have bad taste and hate trains

I'm still upset that the Super Sentai with trains got skipped for Power Rangers and openly mocked by Saban goddammit trains are goated

 

[ForsakenM]

People who have reached this conclusion only after the Geno costume are quite transparent, though.

No, Mii costumes don't 100%, definitively kill the chances of the character still showing up.

But continuing to expect them won't end well. Especially since putting one back on the table puts them all back on the table.

Geno fans wanting Geno isn't a bad thing, and if it takes something like this to come to a better understanding of costumes in general and abolishing fan rules, it really doesn't matter why they come to said conclusion.

Yes, it brings them all back to the table, but even then some have better chances then others. My point is that saying coming to this conclusion that returning costumes don't deconfirm doesn't make you hypocritical like a lot of people are telling Geno fans who have come to this enlightenment due to recent events. I'd day the same thing to Heihachi fans or Tails fans, and I will for Lloyd fans later one. I'll also list things that aren't good for them if there are any.

I'm simply pointing out there is a bias specifically targeting Geno fans right now just because they came to the same conclusion as others later on, and twisting it as though Geno fans are being hypocritical when they either still believe the costume deconfirms or they think no returning costumes deconfirm.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Trains are super cool from an aesthetic standpoint and Spirit Tracks is the best over the top view Zelda game y'all Americans just have bad taste and hate trains
View attachment 298843
I'm still upset that the Super Sentai with trains got skipped for Power Rangers and openly mocked by Saban goddammit trains are goated

The best top-down Zelda game is Minish Cap, don't @ me

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

Trains are super cool from an aesthetic standpoint and Spirit Tracks is the best over the top view Zelda game y'all Americans just have bad taste and hate trains
View attachment 298843
I'm still upset that the Super Sentai with trains got skipped for Power Rangers and openly mocked by Saban goddammit trains are goated

It should have been called LoZ: The Locomotion of Commotion.

 

[N3ON]

There's a lot of baggage the term fan rule has gained over time. Used to be most of them were just treated as hypotheses or theories within speculation (and not in the formal, named "whatever Theory" that gets some dumb video made about them) but now apparently everything some portion of the fanbase believes has become a "fan rule".

The real problem arises when someone shouts fanrule as if that completely invalidates any truth behind why people believe in something. People shout "fanrule" when a character is described as irrelevant, when a lack of currency can impede their chances, even if some characters are able to overcome it. People shout "fanrule" with the Mii costumes, when even though it's not impossible one still becomes playable, it seems very very very unlikely to the point that believing it will happen is probably just an excuse to continue believing in a certain character.

Well that and the fact that people keep trying to form rules, when there's so much evidence to the contrary in why you should do that, with the very few things that do seem like genuine "rules" almost never changing. Those are the two main problems.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Miracle of the Mist isn't even that bad of a title.


It makes me wonder how many people here would go "wow that sounds terrible" to titles like...

Majora's Mask
Wind Waker
Twilight Princess
Skyward Sword
Phantom Hourglass
Spirit Tracks
Breath of the Wild

....if they were leaked before.

As if any normal person can casually think of a word like Majora.

 

[cashregister9]

I'm still upset that the Super Sentai with trains got skipped for Power Rangers and openly mocked by Saban goddammit trains are goated

ToQger is Goated and so is Kamen Rider Den-O. Trains have some power.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

The best top-down Zelda game is Minish Cap, don't @ me

GoodGrief741 you know what I have to say about this absolute ****ing heresy?







I've never played Minish Cap though the lets play I saw looked super fun and it has gorgeous spritework but Spirit Tracks has a special place in my heart and I speak for every ****ing European when I say we thought train toys were the ****

ToQger is Goated and so is Kamen Rider Den-O. Trains have some power.

ToQger is top tier, penis memes aside and it even included a canonically gay ranger. Your fav could never

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Playing Link's Awakening for Switch had me realizing a similar set of remakes for the Oracle games (ideally with a better framerate) would probably push them to be my favorite 2D Zelda titles (and that's saying something given how good Link Between Worlds is).

 

[SharkLord]

Personally, my stance on things is that it's not over 'till it's over, but if you get post-launch content you're done. Spirit Event, Mii Costume, playable status, if you get something after release that's the role you're stuck with, end of story. Base game content is fine, that's been out long enough for the devs to go back on, but post-launch is the end.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Personally, my stance on things is that it's not over 'till it's over, but if you get post-launch content you're done. Spirit Event, Mii Costume, playable status, if you get something after release that's the role you're stuck with, end of story. Base game content is fine, that's been out long enough for the devs to go back on, but post-launch is the end.

Pretty much this. I do think Mega Man's content is biased enough in favor of the classic series for a challenger pack to focus on one of its later subseries, but plenty of waves have featured the return of Mega Man costumes, so I won't count on a Mega Man newcomer happening.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'm still upset that the Super Sentai with trains got skipped for Power Rangers and openly mocked by Saban goddammit trains are goated

OK as silly as X concept, but with trains is, how in the world do you think "It's Power Rangers, but they got abducted by aliens and now they're children" is any better?

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

Personally, my stance on things is that it's not over 'till it's over, but if you get post-launch content you're done. Spirit Event, Mii Costume, playable status, if you get something after release that's the role you're stuck with, end of story. Base game content is fine, that's been out long enough for the devs to go back on, but post-launch is the end.

Basically and I don't even think it's a "fan rule." The fighters are probably some of the first thing to be decided on.

Sakurai and his team knew that Plant would be a fighter before the game launched so they saved a Piranha Plant spirit for him. Some time around when Hero came out, they must have known Sephiroth was going to be future DLC (maybe not the rest of the pass) so they held out on the Chocobo costume to you know sell it with the actual Final Fantasy character.

Sakurai didn't know Min Min would be a fighter right before launch but some time into Pass 2's development, they must have decided to actually go for an ARMS character and thus so on.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

OK as silly as X concept, but with trains is, how in the world do you think "It's Power Rangers, but they got abducted by aliens and now they're children" is any better?

It's funny you're saying that considering ToQger's twist is that the rangers are all children who somehow got aged up

 

[SharkLord]

Pretty much this. I do think Mega Man's content is biased enough in favor of the classic series for a challenger pack to focus on one of its later subseries, but plenty of waves have featured the return of Mega Man costumes, so I won't count on a Mega Man newcomer happening.

Yeah, it's covered the classic games with Proto Man, MMX with X and Zero, and Battle Network with MegaMan.EXE. By now the one series they could feasibly cover is Legends, which... Isn't in an ideal spot right now.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Some time around when Hero came out, they must have known Sephiroth was going to be future DLC (maybe not the rest of the pass) so they held out on the Chocobo costume to you know sell it with the actual Final Fantasy character.

Actually, I think they deliberately excluded both the Chocobo and Geno costumes to focus solely on Dragon Quest for that wave.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Yeah, it's covered the classic games with Proto Man, MMX with X and Zero, and Battle Network with MegaMan.EXE. By now the one series they could feasibly cover is Legends, which... Isn't in an ideal spot right now.

Tron time.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Geno fans wanting Geno isn't a bad thing, and if it takes something like this to come to a better understanding of costumes in general and abolishing fan rules, it really doesn't matter why they come to said conclusion.

Yes, it brings them all back to the table, but even then some have better chances then others. My point is that saying coming to this conclusion that returning costumes don't deconfirm doesn't make you hypocritical like a lot of people are telling Geno fans who have come to this enlightenment due to recent events. I'd day the same thing to Heihachi fans or Tails fans, and I will for Lloyd fans later one. I'll also list things that aren't good for them if there are any.

I'm simply pointing out there is a bias specifically targeting Geno fans right now just because they came to the same conclusion as others later on, and twisting it as though Geno fans are being hypocritical when they either still believe the costume deconfirms or they think no returning costumes deconfirm.

I'm going to be real honest with you and say that you're totally reaching here.

The only "bias" present is the observation that Heihachi or Tails fans don't actively still think their character has a chance, whereas Geno fans do for some reason. The former have long moved on, whereas from what you're arguing Geno fans have not. If it's apparent enough people are going to call it out.

I always appreciate a healthy amount of speculation and I'm definitely one for breaking the conventions of our little Smash Bubble, but in this case a contrived term such as "fan rule" isn't enough to disguise what is clearly denial.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

It's funny you're saying that considering ToQger's twist is that the rangers are all children who somehow got aged up

I actually like that kind of thing. It's more that X characters, but now they're 10 and under is never fun and the explanation of "because aliens" is stupid.

Granted I've never seen the show so the execution could be better than the concept, but I doubt it.

 

[N3ON]

Geno fans wanting Geno isn't a bad thing, and if it takes something like this to come to a better understanding of costumes in general and abolishing fan rules, it really doesn't matter why they come to said conclusion.

Yes, it brings them all back to the table, but even then some have better chances then others. My point is that saying coming to this conclusion that returning costumes don't deconfirm doesn't make you hypocritical like a lot of people are telling Geno fans who have come to this enlightenment due to recent events. I'd day the same thing to Heihachi fans or Tails fans, and I will for Lloyd fans later one. I'll also list things that aren't good for them if there are any.

I'm simply pointing out there is a bias specifically targeting Geno fans right now just because they came to the same conclusion as others later on, and twisting it as though Geno fans are being hypocritical when they either still believe the costume deconfirms or they think no returning costumes deconfirm.

The intermittent Geno fans that have abandoned their entire belief system over costumes to concoct a new one in which Geno is still possible are the only fanbase doing that. It's not an unfounded bias, it's people pointing out irrationality. Heihachi fans didn't do that, Travis fans didn't do that, even the Undertale fans who think we could still get a character don't think it'll be Sans.

That's why you see people single out the few Geno fans who can't reconcile the reality of the situation. If you carry on believing the mentality propagated in the old thread that everyone is out to pick on Geno fans for no reason, you're going to miss that the singular treatment is born from untethered expectations that no other fanbase upholds.

If, for example, the Heihachi fans had been on board with the general consensus regarding costumes and then immediately pivoted to thinking Heihachi was still possible right after him showing up, they'd be receiving the same reactions - including from the Geno thread, prior to last month.

If anything, this desertion of consensus in the face of a negative development for the sake of sticking by an outcome is anything other than cultivating a better understanding. The people who are perpetuating it are doing the same thing they've always done, and continuing to believe in their character despite any and all evidence to the contrary. That's not suddenly gaining awareness, that's putting your head in the sand. It's the opposite.

Your past tenets have eroded, and saying they didn't matter in the first place isn't enlightenment, it's denial.

Luckily, from what I've seen, most Geno fans have reached acceptance.

 

[Jocario Zero]

hello naughty children it's that time of the year again

that's right, fake leak time

Spoiler: have to spoiler box it cause swearing in the images. tried censoring one of the pics but it was too big

https://twitter.com/2BforSmash/status/1348327077196402690?s=19

why do ALL of these fake leaks include GTAV come on lmao

although, one or two things may be of interest to @3BitSaurus ...

I was just in the mood for some 4chan leaks.
Thanks for that

 

[chocolatejr9]

Trains are super cool from an aesthetic standpoint and Spirit Tracks is the best over the top view Zelda game y'all Americans just have bad taste and hate trains
View attachment 298843
I'm still upset that the Super Sentai with trains got skipped for Power Rangers and openly mocked by Saban goddammit trains are goated

As someone who grew up with Thomas the Tank Engine, I can confirm that trains are the GOAT.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

As someone who grew up with Thomas the Tank Engine, I can confirm that trains are the GOAT.

It's all fun and games until they animate the faces. shivers

 

[ForsakenM]

I'm going to be real honest with you and say that you're totally reaching here.

The only "bias" present is the observation that Heihachi or Tails fans don't actively still think their character has a chance, whereas Geno fans do for some reason. The former have long moved on, whereas from what you're arguing Geno fans have not. If it's apparent enough people are going to call it out.

I always appreciate a healthy amount of speculation and I'm one for breaking the conventions of our little Smash Bubble, but in this case a contrived term such as "fan rule" isn't enough to disguise what is clearly denial.

Once again, I personally think Tails is still on the table, but other Sega characters seem to be a priority. Eggman seems to be the big push within the Sonic Smash fandom now and I feel like since they have given up on pushing Tails of Shadow and are now talking about Eggman, Sakurai and Nintendo will potentially see that and think they WANT Eggman over these other characters, hence another Sega rep could be a defeatist self-fulfilling prophecy.. Heihachi has a list of things that were against him way before his costume returned.

You can feel free to give up on your character getting in for less than stellar reasons, but some people refuse to do so and they are allowed to do the same.

 

[Ivander]

hello naughty children it's that time of the year again

that's right, fake leak time

Spoiler: have to spoiler box it cause swearing in the images. tried censoring one of the pics but it was too big

https://twitter.com/2BforSmash/status/1348327077196402690?s=19

why do ALL of these fake leaks include GTAV come on lmao

although, one or two things may be of interest to @3BitSaurus ...

Had one job and that was to mention Hyrule Warriors AoC DLC content and it still failed.

I've been enjoying HW AoC too much. DLC announcement when?