Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Metal Shop X]

Banjo & Kazuya Mishima > Sephiroth.

Sorry pal, that's just fact.

 

[blackghost]

Not really, but I Byleth's moveset means I can enjoy using them even I don't know the first thing about Fire Emblem. If anything I almost lament that sentimental favorites like Diddy or Sonic, whose games I've played a lot still aren't as satisfying to use in Smash as Pyra/Mythra are, despite having as little experience with their game as I have Byleth's.

this is something i wish got addressed more. I get that people have nostalgic connections to dixie, geno, and more but would they REALLY be fun in smash? do they really have moveset potential or unique mechanics? I think its very interesting how poeple claimed they would ALWAYS love or play banjo yet he has retained what appears to be the lowest playerbase of any dlc character (even lower than byleth) and i tihnk people find him boring or really dont like his design in smash. I think sakurai has done an incredible job realizing characters potential in their movesets and design in smash without having goal that aren't obtainable (special shoutouts to mythra, steveand kazuya design choices).

 

[N3ON]

Damn. I want Geno and Isaac, but we really are hitting the bottom of the barrel.

Oh actually it'd probably be Dixie, who I forgot.

But after that, those other mentioned ones. Who, frankly, I'd be happy to see. Most of them would seem a lot more popular had they not been AT'd. You'll see their popularity rebound next time, the question just is, to what extent.

 

[Theguy123]

Yes they do 'cuz they're not gonna.

they probably won’t upgrade an AT you’re right in that part, however AT’s don’t deconfirm.

 

[Jondolio]

Speak for yourself, Waluigi has always been an unbelievably based character choice. View attachment 327717

Oh no, I wasn't disrespecting the wahster. I think he'd be really neat.
I was more so talking about some of those other names.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Banjo & Kazuya Mishima > Sephiroth.

Sorry pal, that's just fact.

Imagine only having one wing.

This was brought to you by Dark Pit and the Two wings gang.

 

[Will]

this is something i wish got addressed more. I get that people have nostalgic connections to dixie, geno, and more but would they REALLY be fun in smash? do they really have moveset potential or unique mechanics?

Geno would probably have some hit-time mechanic **** and man that's gonna be hard to get right but it'd probably be busted in a competitive setting. If you like playing Diddy, you'd probably like playing Dixie considering they'd most likely Echo her next installment to save development time. Or make her like Isabelle, but even then you don't get much a difference.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

this is something i wish got addressed more. I get that people have nostalgic connections to dixie, geno, and more but would they REALLY be fun in smash? do they really have moveset potential or unique mechanics? I think its very interesting how poeple claimed they would ALWAYS love or play banjo yet he has retained what appears to be the lowest playerbase of any dlc character (even lower than byleth) and i tihnk people find him boring or really dont like his design in smash. I think sakurai has done an incredible job realizing characters potential in their movesets and design in smash without having goal that aren't obtainable (special shoutouts to mythra, steveand kazuya design choices).

It's all a matter of what mechanics they take from the games. Super Mario RPG's time hits system for Geno or something like the animal buddies for Dixie could make them fairly interesting to play as if done right. Given this is the same series that got something decent out of Wii Fit Trainer, I think the sky's the limit on what one can do with a lot of characters.

 

[N3ON]

Oh no, I wasn't disrespecting the wahster. I think he'd be really neat.
I was more so talking about some of those other names.

I mean, they're all bigger than Geno.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

they probably won’t upgrade an AT you’re right in that part, however AT’s don’t deconfirm.

They definitely won't, so they do disconfirm.

 

[blackghost]

I think Sephiroth's shot is just has more emphasis on it. Ridley's moment is an establishing shot followed by a neat detail in the transition while Sehpiroth's moment lingers long enough for you to process what just happened, then reveals the joke, then keeps the joke going by having Mario fly off of Sephiroth's sword in the next super cool action scene.

sephiroth moment with mario isnt a joke or anything its just a recreation of an iconic moment from advent children.

 

[Will]

I mean, they're all bigger than Geno.

What are your thoughts on Chibi-Robo?

 

[Metal Shop X]

Imagine only having one wing.

This was brought to you by Dark Pit and the Two wings gang.

Power of the Angle & Devil.

 

[Theguy123]

They definitely won't, so they do disconfirm.

fan rule literally made by people. They don’t deconfirm and they never will. Even if they don’t upgrade an AT, they don’t deconfirm. It’s a stupid fan rule made up by people just like how people said spirits deconfirm

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

sephiroth moment with mario isnt a joke or anything its just a recreation of an iconic moment from advent children.

It's both. You have the recreation of the shot, and then it's revealed that Mario wasn't actually stabbed. The latter part is the joke.

 

[blackghost]

It's all a matter of what mechanics they take from the games. Super Mario RPG's time hits system for Geno or something like the animal buddies for Dixie could make them fairly interesting to play as if done right. Given this is the same series that got something decent out of Wii Fit Trainer, I think the sky's the limit on what one can do with a lot of characters.

sakurai is a fan of fighting games and a student of the genre. Certain mechanics usually dont work that well in pvp fighting games vs working in pve action games or other games. Rhythm timing on hits is one of them. Extreme levels of healing for example is another.
just like smash design really hurts a character like Tracer chances of getting in.

 

[Jondolio]

I mean, they're all bigger than Geno.

I guess so? Maybe I'm just biased since I personally don't care for these characters, but a lot of them just seem to get lost in a sea of other characters from the same series as far as Smash requests go and don't stand out too much. That's saying something considering Geno hails from a series with a particularly diverse cast of characters.
Then again, I'm personally mostly content with the Nintendo cast as is.

 

[N3ON]

What are your thoughts on Chibi-Robo?

I'm surprised it was never added as an AT, frankly. But now the series seems like it's not going to continue, so I don't see the character ever really amounting to much. I mean they could still add it as an AT, but past that... the chances seems grim.

The character also never really gained enough demand behind it either to get attention on that basis.

Personally I've nothing against the character. I always like when new Nintendo series get attention in Smash. But I don't have any huge experience or affinity with the series myself.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

sakurai is a fan of fighting games and a student of the genre. Certain mechanics usually dont work that well in pvp fighting games vs working in pve action games or other games. Rhythm timing on hits is one of them. Extreme levels of healing for example is another.
just like smash design really hurts a character like Tracer chances of getting in.

I mean with Geno specifically, his stuff was typically of the "hold button down for a couple of seconds before letting go", which feels fairly doable for Smash if the rest of the moveset accommodated for taht.

 

[WahHahaha]

They definitely won't, so they do disconfirm.

Your logic really doesn't make sense. "AT's deconfirm because I said they do, and they won't do it because I don't think they will, even if there's no concrete evidence that they can't"

 

[Will]

sakurai is a fan of fighting games and a student of the genre. Certain mechanics usually dont work that well in pvp fighting games vs working in pve action games or other games. Rhythm timing on hits is one of them. Extreme levels of healing for example is another.
just like smash design really hurts a character like Tracer chances of getting in.

We got Minecraft ****ing Steve in the game, you're gonna say certain mechanics are impossible? When the main developer is known for making the impossible possible anyway?

First mistake.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

this is something i wish got addressed more. I get that people have nostalgic connections to dixie, geno, and more but would they REALLY be fun in smash? do they really have moveset potential or unique mechanics? I think its very interesting how poeple claimed they would ALWAYS love or play banjo yet he has retained what appears to be the lowest playerbase of any dlc character (even lower than byleth) and i tihnk people find him boring or really dont like his design in smash. I think sakurai has done an incredible job realizing characters potential in their movesets and design in smash without having goal that aren't obtainable (special shoutouts to mythra, steveand kazuya design choices).

I guess the thing to think about with that is that nobody's really immune to poor design choices. Banjo & Kazooie is one of the unlucky ones who's moveset ended up being awkward on the surface and "lame" at higher levels of play.

EDIT: I should clarify that I don't think Banjo & Kazooie were destined to have a bad moveset, and they can probably be fixed in later titles without too much effort.

Certain mechanics usually dont work that well in pvp fighting games vs working in pve action games or other games. Rhythm timing on hits is one of them.

Depends on what you mean. There are rhythm mechanics that would work very poorly, but on the flip side, fighting game combos are literally rhythm based.

 

[Willbuysmash4mw]

Imagine they do an ARMS style teaser but it's with SMT protagonists so we have to guess if it's gonna be Demi-Fiend, Flynn, or Nahobino or something

That would make it too obvious.

Nobody would guess Demi-Fiend or Flynn over Nahobino when it would be obvious that the teaser itself only exists to run out the clock until SMT V comes out.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

That would make it too obvious.

Nobody would guess Demi-Fiend or Flynn over Nahobino when it would be obvious that the teaser itself only exists to run out the clock until SMT V comes out.

Ok

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

fan rule literally made by people. They don’t deconfirm and they never will. Even if they don’t upgrade an AT, they don’t deconfirm. It’s a stupid fan rule made up by people just like how people said spirits deconfirm

It's a rule that Nintendo has made themselves, and have yet to rescind, and it will remain in place until they do.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Imagine only having one wing.

This was brought to you by Dark Pit and the Two wings gang.

Imagine being a clone of a guy who can’t fly with Two Wings

This post made by Sephiroth game.

 

[blackghost]

I mean with Geno specifically, his stuff was typically of the "hold button down for a couple of seconds before letting go", which feels fairly doable for Smash if the rest of the moveset accommodated for taht.

so he plays like zero does in vs games. well kinda. ive only seen that work in fighting games played primarily on stick. if he can make it work go for it but im really skeptical.

 

[N3ON]

I guess so? Maybe I'm just biased since I personally don't care for these characters, but a lot of them just seem to get lost in a sea of other characters from the same series as far as Smash requests go and don't stand out too much. That's saying something considering Geno hails from a series with a particularly diverse cast of characters.
Then again, I'm personally mostly content with the Nintendo cast as is.

I suspect you've not seem them when their support was in full swing. If you've only come to things after they got AT'd, that's not a very good picture of a character's potential performance. The thing is, a lot of them were deconfirmed pretty early during Ultimate's rollout.

There was a minute characters like Ashley and Skull Kid had quite a lot of demand this time around.

 

[WahHahaha]

We got Minecraft ****ing Steve in the game, you're gonna say certain mechanics are impossible? When the main developer is known for making the impossible possible anyway?

First mistake.

I really hate it when people say for certain that a character can't work when they don't work on this game and couldn't possibly envision a character concept like Sakurai could. It's not your job to say who can and can't work, that's the job of the people in charge.

 

[3BitSaurus]

I get that people have nostalgic connections to dixie, geno, and more but would they REALLY be fun in smash? do they really have moveset potential or unique mechanics?

"Moveset potential" is pretty much a buzzword that should have died when we got a Piranha Plant as DLC, if not before. A character doesn't always need crazy unseen mechanics. I like Pyra and Mythra despite never playing XC2 and they're relatively simple characters, while conversely loving XC1 and hating how Shulk plays because his gimmick makes no sense to me.

Different strokes for different folks. Pretty much any character can be made to be fun.

I think its very interesting how poeple claimed they would ALWAYS love or play banjo yet he has retained what appears to be the lowest playerbase of any dlc character (even lower than byleth) and i tihnk people find him boring or really dont like his design in smash.

...Source?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Imagine being a clone of a guy who can’t fly with Two Wings

This post made by Sephiroth game.

Imagine being a clone.

This post was made by the Pit gang.

 

[ZelDan]

It's a rule that Nintendo has made themselves, and have yet to rescind, and it will remain in place until they do.

Nintendo hasn't made such a claim in the first place though?

 

[Shroob]

Unrelated to the topic at hand, but saw it brought up a few pages back.

Y'all know Spackle Theory is just that one dude's name for the Second Chance theory, right?

 

[GilTheGreat19]

just like smash design really hurts a character like Tracer chances of getting in.

Difficult
But not impossible

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Nintendo hasn't made such a claim in the first place though?

Sakurai himself said it in the previous game.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

"No assist trophy promotions within the same game" falls into the territory of not being a hard rule... but realistically many people are going to think of it as such until it's broken; a bit like the "must have an appearance in a game on a Nintendo console" which will be in the back of people's heads until we get someone like a 2B to outright disconfirm it.

 

[BlondeLombax]

Difficult
But not impossible

I mean, if the difficult transition doesn’t hurt her chances, then the ActiBlizz drama this year just might.

 

[Will]

a bit like the "must have an appearance in a game on a Nintendo console" which will be in the back of people's heads until we get someone like a 2B to outright break it.

Cloud broke it, though, unless you mean "appearance" as in any game in general, which on its own sounds pretty wack to assume.

 

[blackghost]

Depends on what you mean. There are rhythm mechanics that would work very poorly, but on the flip side, fighting game combos are literally rhythm based.

Fighting game combos are frame data and hitstun based. you dont always do the same combo in rhythm. even games with auto combos such as dbfz require you to adjust yourt timing for combos to work. Rhythmic timing mechanics is something entirely different. when an entire character has to function based on timing or to be optimized it usually doesnt work well in fighting games.

in a game like bayonetta or devil may cry 5 it works to maximize damage or range.

 

[Dinoman96]

Cloud broke it, though.

Cloud and Final Fantasy as a whole already had appearances on Nintendo before Smash 4.