Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[DarthEnderX]

Waluigi clearly has a level of interest in this game that is comparable to those 3.

/laughter reiterates

He's popular for the game, what else do you want me to say? It doesn't matter if you use "memes" or whatever else to try and downplay it, he's still popular. What wording do you want me to use?

I want you, guy with "Wah" in his name, to be aware that you MIGHT be overestimating his popularity when you say he's on a "comparable level" of who were basically the Top 3 going into Ultimate.

If you actually believe Waluigi is anywhere near the current Top 3, there's nothing I can do to help you.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

well it'll be lame from a "they must expand the audience with characters more iconic than geno" perspective at least

What sounds better to you? The described “Grand Final” or your crackpot “must be smaller than every other inclusion in the pass” theory.

It is lame to assume CP11 is lowkey for no good reason.

 

[WahHahaha]

The irony of a fanbase that derides Waluigi for being too unimportant, but hypes up Geno.

To be fair, this fanbase does the opposite of hyping up Geno. However I would argue that there are many unimportant characters that this fanbase clamors for, like Ridley, K. Rool and Banjo. 3 characters that actually did end up making it on the roster. It's almost like they can't tell that the same arguments they are using against other characters also apply to the characters that THEY want, but since they are personally nostalgic for those characters it doesn't matter.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

/laughter reiterates

But Waluigi does have a great interest in being in this game!

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

People literally said this exact same thing for Steve. "HOW ARE YOU GONNA INCLUDE MINECRAFT MUSIC?!?! ALL OF THE MUSIC IS PEACEFUL" the spirit argument could also apply to Pyra/Mythra, 2 characters from games that already had spirits in Smash, or Min Min. I really don't know why Mario already having enough content would stop them when it didn't stop them from including a 9th FE character.

[/QUOTE]
Because literally all of those were new worlds in their games? Minecraft was a completely unrepresented third party, Pyra/Mythra are from a game with completely different locations, music tracks, and characters (which not even every major character is represented by Spirits even now), ARMS had like 3 Spirits so the rest of the cast was a no-brainer, and Three Houses was a brand new game with new locations, characters, and music that unlike XC2 wasn't represented at all at that point.

It wasn't worth it to give R.O.B, Game and Watch, or Captain Falcon full playable slots considering their status, but now that they're in, they're the most important thing in the world. I wonder if this same thing would happen for Waluigi?

Smash is not a competition of importance, it's just a celebration of video games. Anybody from a video game can make it into the roster. Waluigi has been a mainstay in the mario franchise, which is one of the most pivotal franchises in gaming, I think he's a good addition to the roster.

How is it not worth it to give a playable spot to G&W, Nintendo's first ever video game related success story or Falcon, who had a successful series when he was added to Smash 64, and how is Ridley an unimportant character when he's the most recurring villain in one of Nintendo's flagship franchises?

 

[WahHahaha]

/laughter reiterates

Why wait like 40 minutes to respond to my post and then just type "laughter reiterates" instead of making any effort to disprove what I'm saying? I don't know how people have reached the point where counterarguments aren't even necessary in a one on one argument anymore.

Because literally all of those were new worlds in their games? Minecraft was a completely unrepresented third party, Pyra/Mythra are from a game with completely different locations, music tracks, and characters (which not even every major character is represented by Spirits even now), ARMS had like 3 Spirits so the rest of the cast was a no-brainer, and Three Houses was a brand new game with new locations, characters, and music that unlike XC2 wasn't represented at all at that point.

You are completely ignoring what I'm saying. I'm not arguing about whether it's new to the game or not. I'm arguing about the "music potential" "spirit potential" and "stage potential" fan rules which are things that have been disproven by those 3 characters. Also you didn't even mention Byleth.

How is it not worth it to give a playable spot to G&W, Nintendo's first ever video game related success story or Falcon, who had a successful series when he was added to Smash 64, and how is Ridley an unimportant character when he's the most recurring villain in one of Nintendo's flagship franchises?

If Sakurai never bothered to include G&W then people never would have cared about it being Nintendo's first successful system. The same with falcon, F-ZERO would have just been a game on the N64 if Sakurai didn't include it in Smash, in fact I doubt people would have ever brought up Captain Falcon as a potential fighter to begin with.

Metroid is far from a flagship series, Metroid Prime 3 didn't sell very well despite it being on switch, the 3DS games never sold that well either. It's a moderately successful series that mainly got a boost because it was in Smash. How much you oversell it's importance is incredible to me.

I really hate how people always use hindsight to justify a characters appearance and ignore the fact that they wouldn't care about any of these 3 franchises if it wasn't for Smash, even though people still would have known about Waluigi since he's a mario character, but still somehow use the "unimportant" argument against him and none of the other characters.

 

[Dinoman96]

It wasn't worth it to give R.O.B, Game and Watch, or Captain Falcon full playable slots considering their status, but now that they're in, they're the most important thing in the world. I wonder if this same thing would happen for Waluigi?

I'd imagine it's because those characters are at least the main character or at least mascot of their respective series. Where Waluigi is just yet another Mario character. One that again, doesn't even appear in the mainline games and can't even be made an easy clone like with Daisy.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Whats this Waluigi discussion about?
Is it that hes not very well requested or that he doesn’t “deserve” a slot or that hes not likely?

 

[Dinoman96]

Whats this Waluigi discussion about?
Is it that hes not very well requested pr that he doesn’t “deserve” a slot or that hes not likely?

Mostly the latter two.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Problem is? Geno is actually a major character in SMRPG. He's the second most important protagonist, being the other big hero of the main story(both are to save the world. One is to stop the big bad guy, which would be Mario's part. The other is to save the dreams of everyone, the actual main plot of the game that Geno is there for. Even if you want to switch them around on importance, it's still the two biggest plots of the game. They're both after the same guy to save the world, just for different reasons. Bowser is there to get his castle back. Mallow is there to find his real family... which also eventually helps part of the main plot, but mainly for Geno's part of it. And Peach is there cause she was already kidnapped again and joined in cause why not help when you can).

Waluigi is never a major character in any of the games he's in. He's sometimes decently important, like being part of the story mode's bigger plots, or starting off the plot in DDR Mario Mix. Mario Mix would be his biggest story role... and it's still really small.

The comparison isn't ironic. It's just plain wrong to begin with. They're nothing alike.

Geno, on the other hand, isn't an important character in the entire Mario franchise. He's just important to one game. Waluigi has minor importance to several games at best. But they're not close to what Geno's level of importance in any game would be, as Waluigi doesn't often get cameos either(but more things like actually playable), so it's not even similar to Geno's small cameo in the original version of Superstar Saga. The comparison... just doesn't work.

 

[Shroob]

How about we not needlessly dunk on characters in the home stretch?

 

[DarthEnderX]

I don't know how people have reached the point where counterarguments aren't even necessary in a one on one argument anymore.

Because there is no argument.

When someone says "anchovies are delicious", you don't argue with them. You just laugh and keep walking.

 

[WahHahaha]

Problem is? Geno is actually a major character in SMRPG. He's the second most important protagonist, being the other big hero of the main story(both are to save the world. One is to stop the big bad guy, which would be Mario's part. The other is to save the dreams of everyone, the actual main plot of the game that Geno is there for. Even if you want to switch them around on importance, it's still the two biggest plots of the game. They're both after the same guy to save the world, just for different reasons. Bowser is there to get his castle back. Mallow is there to find his real family... which also eventually helps part of the main plot, but mainly for Geno's part of it. And Peach is there cause she was already kidnapped again and joined in cause why not help when you can).

Waluigi is never a major character in any of the games he's in. He's sometimes decently important, like being part of the story mode's bigger plots, or starting off the plot in DDR Mario Mix. Mario Mix would be his biggest story role... and it's still really small.

The comparison isn't ironic. It's just plain wrong to begin with. They're nothing alike.

Geno, on the other hand, isn't an important character in the entire Mario franchise. He's just important to one game. Waluigi has minor importance to several games at best. But they're not close to what Geno's level of importance in any game would be, as Waluigi doesn't often get cameos either(but more things like actually playable), so it's not even similar to Geno's small cameo in the original version of Superstar Saga. The comparison... just doesn't work.

He's important to one NES game that nobody cares about besides a small cult following, while Waluigi is a prevalent character in the Mario Universe.

I really don't know why I have to even refute arguments like this, people should know when they post them that they are wrong.

 

[Sucumbio]

Regardless of claims of his popularity (I personally don't believe that Waluigi is on the same level as Ridley, K. Rool, or Banjo, two of whom are major antagonists in massive Nintendo flagships, and the other of which has been a popular request since as far back as the poll for MELEE, but whatever, I'll move past that now), my main issue with Waluigi is that I don't really get the need to add new Mario content?

DLC in this game need to have music, a stage, and Spirits to go along with them, at least for the Fighter Passes. Mario already has 8/88 characters (about 9%), 144/1493 Spirits (9.6% or so and this is excluding the Rabbids), 106/1057 music tracks (again, about 10%), and 18/114 stages (about 15.7%). Adding a character like Waluigi could open some avenues for a stage, sure, such as something relating to Mario Party or the like, but considering how much Mario content is already available in the game as it is, Spirits and music would have him digging for scraps. If he was listed as a Wario character, sure, but his Spirit in-game is listed under the Mario Spirits.

And this isn't even getting into him being an Assist Trophy already, since I know not everyone agrees on that front. Could Waluigi happen next game? Sure, but I sincerely doubt he'd be CP11.

How about Zelda how many things they got? I'm putting this all in a spreadsheet lol

 

[True Blue Warrior]

The original 3 Crash games are all good. I just wanted to say that.

 

[WahHahaha]

Because there is no argument.

When someone says "anchovies are delicious", you don't argue with them. You just laugh and keep walking.

There is never an argument if you believe you are right and don't want to argue about it. Regardless, if all you're gonna do is laugh and not even talk about it, then I guess I can say that I won.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

He's important to one NES game that nobody cares about besides a small cult following, while Waluigi is a prevalent character in the Mario Universe.

I really don't know why I have to even refute arguments like this, people should know when they post them that they are wrong.

*SNES

Yet another wildly contributing post huh?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

He's important to one NES game that nobody cares about besides a small cult following, while Waluigi is a prevalent character in the Mario Universe.

I really don't know why I have to even refute arguments like this, people should know when they post them that they are wrong.

I'm not saying otherwise.

It's exactly why they don't compare. They're different situations entirely.

And I like them both for their own differences. They both would be cool playable. I'm more of a fan of Waluigi, incidentally.

 

[Sucumbio]

There is never an argument if you believe you are right and don't want to argue about it. Regardless, if all you're gonna do is laugh and not even talk about it, then I guess I can say that I won.

How is this any different than will buyers and smtv? We all want characters in smash and ATs upgraded but the argument is moot. No one is more likely than another until they're out and then in hindsight we look back and try to connect the dots...

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

How about Zelda how many things they got? I'm putting this all in a spreadsheet lol

I have no idea, but I mostly just booted up the game and looked at the totals for Mario lol
I got the number of Mario characters wrong anyway because I completely forgot to count Dr. Mario, so there's nine, not 8.

He's important to one NES game that nobody cares about besides a small cult following, while Waluigi is a prevalent character in the Mario Universe.

I really don't know why I have to even refute arguments like this, people should know when they post them that they are wrong.

I genuinely don't understand where the mindset of Waluigi being this important or prevalent character in the Mario series comes from, considering he's relegated to spin-offs, was created simply to be Wario's tennis partner, and isn't even in every spin-off (Mario Kart 7 didn't even include him, and spinoffs like that are his homefront).

To say a spin-off only character that only has small roles as a bad guy in games like DDR Mario Mix and Mario Party 3 is more important than Ridley is already dubious and reeks of biases, but to say he stands on the same level as Sora, who's an extremely popular choice globally, constantly goes trending when characters come out, and is consistently polled very highly?

I'm just gonna stop arguing about it, because it's obvious I'm not gonna change your opinions on anything (not that I really expected to tbh).

 

[DarthEnderX]

He's important to one NES game

SNES game.

And contrast to Waluigi who isn't important to any game...ever.

I really don't know why I have to even refute arguments like this

Newsflash: You don't. Nobody cares and you are literally burning your life away by doing it.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

"Waluigi isn't important."

He is a popular character that makes a playable appearance in almost every spin-off title in Nintendo's flagship franchise, with one series of these spin-offs being a system seller. He's not as important as many of the other Mario characters that are already in the game, but he's not irrelevant either as people keep claiming.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The thing about the Mario universe is they even have a dubious mainline game list. Super Mario Bros. The Lost Levels isn't consider "mainline" for some reason.

It also is more like an stage play. Every game happens and they're like actors in a way. There's nothing like to a non-canon thing. So a spin-off being unimportant is unfounded here. Nothing makes it less important than the platformers. There's no story reason for that to matter.

Waluigi is a character who has story roles in multiple spin-offs. And it's also part of the various sports games, not just Mario Party 3 and DDR Mario Mix either. Prevalent means being used often. Him having any decent importance still counts. He's not massively prevalent, but he still is recurring and sometimes adds to the plot. Prevalent isn't a bad term for it.

That's not to say he's some major character either. He's not. And that's okay. He doesn't need to be, you know? He's a popular and recurring character who is iconic and has a major fanbase. His notability led to many memes later on. Which only further showed his big popularity.

 

[WahHahaha]

I genuinely don't understand where the mindset of Waluigi being this important or prevalent character in the Mario series comes from, considering he's relegated to spin-offs, was created simply to be Wario's tennis partner, and isn't even in every spin-off (Mario Kart 7 didn't even include him, and spinoffs like that are his homefront).

To say a spin-off only character that only has small roles as a bad guy in games like DDR Mario Mix and Mario Party 3 is more important than Ridley is already dubious and reeks of biases, but to say he stands on the same level as Sora, who's an extremely popular choice globally, constantly goes trending when characters come out, and is consistently polled very highly?

I'm just gonna stop arguing about it, because it's obvious I'm not gonna change your opinions on anything (not that I really expected to tbh).

[/QUOTE]


I literally never called him an important character, you're putting words in my mouth. All I said was he's a prevelant and popular character and he's way more important than Geno without question.

I don't think Daisy is important either, but she deserves to be in the game.

 

[Shroob]

Y'all being needlessly toxic over something soo trivial smh

 

[WahHahaha]

SNES game.

]And contrast to Waluigi who isn't important to any game...ever.

The game that Geno was important to was the ONLY game he was ever in. Waluigi is still a frequent character in the Mario Universe. If Geno had more than 1 apperance than maybe you can argue that he's more important than Waluigi, but he's just not. He had an important role in 1 spinoff game and Waluigi still shows up in the Mario spinoffs to this day. You are comparing apples to oranges, how do you not get this.

 

[Theguy123]

Man it sure would be nice to have those ballot results about now. There’s just random arguing in this group about characters that are “popular” when I guarantee a lot of people are overestimating their popularity.

characters like waluigi, Geno etc probably didn’t even make the top 10. Why you lot all going mad over characters and their popularity lol

 

[DarthEnderX]

He's not as important as many of the other Mario characters that are already in the game, but he's not irrelevant either as people keep claiming.

He's obviously not irrelevant. But saying he's on the Ridley/KRool/Banjo level is nonsense.

Waluigi is still a frequent character in the Mario Universe.

Ah yes...as that all-important Player 8 character in sports games. What would we do without him?

Pick a Shy Guy or something instead, probably.

 

[WahHahaha]

He's obviously not irrelevant. But saying he's on the Ridley/KRool/Banjo level is nonsense.

"Claiming, Waluigi, who still frequently appears in an alive franchise, is more important than 2 characters from a dead franchise and one character from a way less popular franchise is nonsense."

-basically what you are saying.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

When you start off a plot of a game, you are important to that plot. Yes, he's important to DDR Mario Mix.

It's just a pretty lowkey game. And not really a big deal anyway.

You can have small but important roles, you know. That's how storytelling is. Multiple characters have small roles which still make the plot possible. Waluigi is easily usurped by Bowser and Wario who have simply more important roles in the game. That's... basic storytelling. There's a thing called "the man behind the man" as well, where characters with smaller but impactful roles just have somebody giving them orders. It's an extremely common trope.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

The thing about the Mario universe is they even have a dubious mainline game list. Super Mario Bros. The Lost Levels isn't consider "mainline" for some reason.

Lets not get into the debate of which Mario games are considered “Mainline” theres already a 45 minute video covering those inconsistencies.

 

[3BitSaurus]

What sounds better to you? The described “Grand Final” or your crackpot “must be smaller than every other inclusion in the pass” theory.

It is lame to assume CP11 is lowkey for no good reason.

To be fair... lame? Yeah. But it's kinda hard to deny it's more realistic, looking at past final reveals.

Like, yes, I'm stil hoping for someone like Sora or Ahri, but I'm not really banking on them being likely. I think it's just a matter of keeping my expectations in check, you know?

 

[WahHahaha]

When you start off a plot of a game, you are important to that plot. Yes, he's important to DDR Mario Mix.

It's just a pretty lowkey game. And not really a big deal anyway.

You can have small but important roles, you know. That's how storytelling is. Multiple characters have small roles which still make the plot possible. Waluigi is easily usurped by Bowser and Wario who have simply more important roles in the game. That's... basic storytelling. There's a thing called "the man behind the man" as well, where characters with smaller but impactful roles just have somebody giving them orders. It's an extremely common trope.

It's not a relevant argument though. Geno's importance to ONE game is not a comparison to Waluigi's numerous appearances, it just isn't. I don't know how to make you understand this. I feel like I have to keep stating the obvious over and over again because you somehow don't understand how you're wrong.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

"Claiming, Waluigi, who still frequently appears in an alive franchise, is more important than 2 characters from a dead franchise and one character from a way less popular franchise is nonsense."

-basically what you are saying.

But Donkey Kong isn’t a dead franchise.

 

[Theguy123]

"Claiming, Waluigi, who still frequently appears in an alive franchise, is more important than 2 characters from a dead franchise and one character from a way less popular franchise is nonsense."

-basically what you are saying.

you’re making out that waluigi is this really big character but he’s not. He appears in spin-offs. He’s never made it in a big mainline game and never will. He was made to be a meme character. He’s not huge and never will be. He’s got popularity but it’s nothing compared to the 3 that we’re listed.

all 3 of those characters listed all appear in mainline games to their series and play huge roles in them. Waluigi will forever be a Meme pick because Nintendo didn’t even make the character and they hate using characters that they themselves don’t make.

dk is relevant and Alive
Metroid is relevant and alive

Banjo is the only one dead and even his games can be played on the latest Xbox through backwards compatibility which sakurai told people to go play themselves

You have no point here

 

[WahHahaha]

But Donkey Kong isn’t a dead franchise.

Donkey Kong Country, the games that K. Rool was from, that were developed by rare, is a dead franchise. The series right now is not even by the same developers that made the original games.

Even if it wasn't, K. Rool doesn't even show up in the games anymore.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

To be fair... lame? Yeah. But it's kinda hard to deny it's more realistic, looking at past final reveals.

Like, yes, I'm stil hoping for someone like Sora or Ahri, but I'm not really banking on them being likely. I think it's just a matter of keeping my expectations in check, you know?

Oh, that’s completely fine. I personally don’t care much for past precedent when its already been inconsistent in the past and two times isn’t exactly the biggest sample size. Its fine to disagree, I just take issue with the way Nelson expresses his take as a factual certainty than a simple expectation or theory.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I've always found that argument strange considering that other characters like Daisy and Rosalina had their popularity significantly boosted because they're recurring in spinoffs.

In Rosalina's case, she actually starred and debuted in a mainline Mario game having an important part in the plot and story.

No wonder she got in before Daisy and well over Waluigi.

 

[DarthEnderX]

"Claiming, Waluigi, who still frequently appears in an alive franchise, is more important than 2 characters from a dead franchise and one character from a way less popular franchise is nonsense."

-basically what you are saying.

Yes.

"Being a 10th string character in a current franchise is more important than being a major character that hasn't been around lately.

So Pidgey > Isaac"

-basically what you are saying.

 

[WahHahaha]

"Being a 10th string character in a current franchise is more important than being a major character that hasn't been around lately."

"So Pidgey > Isaac"

-basically what you are saying.

Another apples to oranges comparison. Why am I surprised. I'm just.. not gonna bother anymore.