Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[RoboFist]

Question for everyone:

When getting a new character, what is most important? How hype the character choice is? How well they will play competitively? How fun they will play regardless of their tier placement?

As someone who tends to stick to a few mains, I tend to say how hype the character is myself as I am not super likely to play a lot as the new character, but rather play against them a lot more.

...is it weird that I look for faithfulness? Especially when a character is basically being modernized for the first time?

The things that got me most hyped for newcomers like Inkling, Simon, K. Rool, and B&K was watching their reveal trailers and going "Nice, they gave them this move!" or "That recovery is ripped straight from their game!" or whatever. It's really satisfying for me to see.

Like, picking up B&K the day they dropped, I felt like I immediately knew how they controlled because so much was taken from Kazooie and Tooie. They felt faithful to their game, and that will always be more important to me than if a character's original feel was ignored in favor of a completely made-up top-tier moveset.

At least in the case of Simon and Banjo, I'm still putting in the work to be as good with them as I possibly can be. Do I wish they could've both had Peach/Pikachu/Palutena levels of greatness? Sure, but not at the cost of the faithfulness to their original games.

It's why I still love how Little Mac, Sonic, and Min Min play, despite how much hate they get. And why I think other characters I love playing as - like Samus, Daisy, and Wario - are in need of major overhauls.

But design is also what I'm looking for, and why Ridley is still one of the best visually designed characters in the entire game. It's probably also why newer or recently updated newcomers - Isabelle, Pyra/Mythra, Kazuya, etc - didn't get me too hyped until I played them. They didn't really have to be "Smashified" to fit in like Joker, Terry, and even Sephiroth did.

That's also why, as much as I appreciate Minecraft being on the roster, Steve and Company's designs really didn't get me as hype as I should've been. Ripped straight from their original in-game source code? Really? They shouldn't have gone full Eldritch Horror on us, but they should've done what Smashified did, at the very least.

Then again, I'm not going to tournaments every other weekend and only play this game for super casual fun, so I'm probably the outlier here. I like Ultimate more as a digital museum with a fighting game mode attached ha.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Thing is block is such an important move in his game that he doesn’t have it as an important part of his moveset besides shield would make interesting in that way.

He's got both a shield (which is blocking's equivalent) and a counter, so he does have that covered. He just doesn't have any emphasis on them since his design is more influenced by physics than PUNCH-OUT!! itself. Also I think dodging is more important to the game since later boxers break your guard in like, 2 hits.

 

[chocolatejr9]

BrawlFan1 made a Smash moveset for the best Mario RPG rep:

 

[Slime Master]

I think air shields could maybe work if they had significantly different properties from grounded shields. Something like you take much more shield damage when air blocking, maybe it's also smaller so you can poke more easily. Or maybe you take dramatically increased pushback, to the point where heavy hits can throw you offstage easily. I'm basically trying to think of ways you could make shields deliberately punishable other than grabs. It's definitely something characters would need to be re-balanced around if it were a universal mechanic though.

 

[Gengar84]

BrawlFan1 made a Smash moveset for the best Mario RPG rep:

Omigosh! Fawful, Imma let you finish but Goombella is the best Mario RPG rep of all time!

 

[Cosmic77]

There's a lot you could do to make Little Mac better, but the simplest way to improve him is also the most obvious — give him a better recovery.

Little Mac has a few things that other powerhouse characters lack, but when you look at other characters like Kazuya or Pyra, you start to ask yourself if it's even worth the trouble playing as him when you could pick up someone else who has an easier time dealing with basic stuff like throws. Regardless of who Mac is up against, there's always that chance they'll be gimped and die at 40%.

 

[MBRedboy31]

Thinking more on it, I don't think Air Shielding would be a very good mechanic in Super Smash Bros. It would cause disadvantage state to lose a lot of its nuance since shielding is such a good option, even with air grabs, which have their own problems. I think air blocking would be more suited to platform fighters that are more like traditional fighting games such as Kirby Fighters Deluxe (which coincidentally does have air blocking) since disadvantage is more just...getting comboed.

From what I’ve seen of more standard fighting games with air blocking, it’s usually in games where characters can exert enough pressure that air blocks usually have the disadvantage of causing you to potentially get stuck in your block, since they can keep hitting your until you land on the ground and then have to deal with the usual high/low mixups. For air blocks to work this way in Smash, they’d need to have a massive shieldstun multiplier (but, at this point, the endlag of modern Smash airdodges serves a pretty similar role, I guess?)

For the record, the Kirby Fighters games do not have air blocking (unless you’re playing Bell, who also has a really weird block that auto counters with a weak shockwave attack every time a non-grab hitbox hits it but has barely any durability.)

 

[Perkilator]

There's a lot you could do to make Little Mac better, but the simplest way to improve him is also the most obvious — give him a better recovery.

Why stop there? He should also have a complete aerial revamp.

Little Mac aerial revamp concept. I really don't like how they made him useless in the air in a game half focused around that, so my idea is to give him either short-ranged but effective hitboxes, or ones that have a windup but still do damage. pic.twitter.com/Aow6R7L57w

— Ryan's Art Account (@TKOWL_Art) December 29, 2020

 

[Cutie Gwen]

The ideal revamp for Mac is to give him Dandy Step, we've been over this

 

[Gengar84]

I just want Ganondorf to return to his Melee glory. I’ve been maiming him since then and it’s a shame how he’s been so bad since Brawl.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

All I want for Mac is to give him an actually good recovery and Aerials, but get rid of KO Punch. Do that and I think he’ll be fine.

 

[pupNapoleon]

The ideal revamp for Mac is to give him Dandy Step, we've been over this

What does this mean?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

There's a lot you could do to make Little Mac better, but the simplest way to improve him is also the most obvious — give him a better recovery.

Little Mac has a few things that other powerhouse characters lack, but when you look at other characters like Kazuya or Pyra, you start to ask yourself if it's even worth the trouble playing as him when you could pick up someone else who has an easier time dealing with basic stuff like throws. Regardless of who Mac is up against, there's always that chance they'll be gimped and die at 40%.

Yeah Super Smash Bros.'s big glass cannons are strange since they have glaring weaknesses, but aren't generally more powerful (or at least, not that much more powerful) than other characters so they end up being either bad, having a really weird playstyle to try and compensate for their huge weaknesses, or both. It's kind of telling that the devs considered Pichu to be too strong back when he was considered to be viable (or at least, worth it to not just play Pikachu).

As far as fixing Little Mac's design, I would probably play around with a few major mechanical changes, but the most elegant fix would probably be to take a page from Kazuya's design. His aerial attacks aren't useless, but he's also the only character with a 7 frame jumpsquat, meaning that he can't access them as readily as everyone else. This combined with some other factors, makes him a fairly grounded character without making him helpless in the air.

All I want for Mac is to give him an actually good recovery and Aerials, but get rid of KO Punch. Do that and I think he’ll be fine.

I wouldn't get rid of K.O. Punch since that's kind of his thing, but I would replace it with something more interesting: Star Punches. How this would work is that instead of just hitting and getting hit, stars are built up with good plays. You would get a star for parrying an attack, interrupting large attacks like Falcon Punch or certain Smash Attacks, Spot Dodging attacks, etc. Little Mac can get up to three stars, which determines the strength of a Star Punch. One star does a lot of damage, but isn't going to K.O. anyone super early, two stars will be a relatively powerful K.O. move, but still won't be out of the ordinary, three stars will be what you'd expect from a redonkulously powerful Special Move like Waft or Rest.

I think this would both add depth to the system and encourage a style of play that more faithfully emulates how PUNCH-OUT!! works.

 

[SKX31]

Who is the second worst character in the air after Little Mac? I wonder if it would fix Mac to just bring his aerial game to that character’s level. That way it would still be a major weakness, just not as extreme.

Casually it's one of the more technical characters (I'm thinking ) since they're designed to chain into combos / strings - in those settings one has less opportunities to do so, and they usually demand a lot of execution. For people not comfortable with the combos / strings there's more reward with say 's or 's - where you only need to hit only once or twice to get some reward out of it.

Overall I'd say - although it's a tough call. Most characters in the game have good or at least okay aerials: most aerials in Ultimate are safe, have a lot of reach and / or can rack up damage. Some are potent kill moves as well (this is a common trait amongst back aerials). Plant does have some capability to do so, but all of them have some caveat attached:

• While N-Air is like , , and 's, the other four can get a lot more out of hitting with a N-Air due to Plant's kinda lacklustre air mobility. Also, the other four can disengage more easily in case their multi-hit nairs drop (which multi-hits are prone to do).
• F-Air can edgeguard pretty well, has wide range and has respectable damage / knockback - but suffers from bad endlag making it unsafe. has a similar F-Air, but his is much more versatile and can set up both follow ups at low %, and KOs sooner than Plant's.
• B-Air is pretty strong and kills pretty early - we're looking at 86-100 % from FD's edge. But that applies to most back airs. It has so much endlag though - more than a second - that if you fastfall offstage with it you risk a self-destruct. Compare / contrast and , who have B-Airs that are really difficult to challenge.
• U-Air has been significantly buffed and is now a disjoint - making it difficult for opponents to challenge - but it has a very precise timing and a small hitbox, meaning it can miss often. Which is a shame since it now KOs pretty early (ca. 110%+) thanks to those buffs. 's might be even more precise and can likewise KO, but it comes out quicker and can cover a lot of options.
• D-Air is a solid meteor smash at the sweetspot (the bottom of the pot) and is very fast compared to most other meteors... except if both the sweetspot and the sourspot connect the sourspot will take priority. Which makes it hard to land properly. Contrast - sure Doc's is slow, but it's powerful, has a more generous sweetspot and can set up follow-ups on grounded opponents more easily.

Almost none of these can be considered the second worst of each aerial - with B-Air being the exception - but as a complete package Plant's air game is underwhelming by itself IMHO. Sure, Plant has Ptooie to help cover that, but Ptooie's also kinda unreliable if the opponent learns what to do.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Overall I'd say - although it's a tough call. Most characters in the game have good or at least okay aerials: most aerials in Ultimate are safe, have a lot of reach and / or can rack up damage. Some are potent kill moves as well (this is a common trait amongst back aerials). Plant does have some capability to do so, but all of them have some caveat attached:

• While N-Air is like , , and 's, the other four can get a lot more out of hitting with a N-Air due to Plant's kinda lacklustre air mobility. Also, the other four can disengage in case their multi-hit nairs drops (which multi-hits are prone to do).
• F-Air can edgeguard pretty well, has wide range and has respectable damage / knockback - but suffers from bad endlag making it unsafe. has a similar F-Air, but his is much more versatile and can set up both follow ups at low %, and KOs sooner than Plant's.
• B-Air is pretty strong and kills pretty early - we're looking at 86-100 % from FD's edge. But that applies to most back airs. It has so much endlag though - more than a second - that if you fastfall offstage with it you risk a self-destruct. Compare / contrast and , who have B-Airs that are really difficult to challenge.
• U-Air has been significantly buffed and is now a disjoint - making it difficult for opponents to challenge - but it has a very precise timing and a small hitbox, meaning it can miss often. Which is a shame since it now KOs pretty early (ca. 110%+) thanks to those buffs. 's might be even more precise and can KO, but it comes out quicker and can cover a lot of options.
• D-Air is a solid meteor smash at the sweetspot (the bottom of the pot) and is very fast compared to most other meteors... except if both the sweetspot and the sourspot connect the sourspot will take priority. Which makes it hard to land properly. Contrast - sure Doc's is slow, but it's powerful, has a more generous sweetspot and can set up follow-ups on grounded opponents more easily.

Almost none of these can be considered the second worst of each aerial - with B-Air being the exception - but as a complete package Plant's air game is underwhelming by itself IMHO. Sure, Plant has Ptooie to help cover that, but Ptooie's also kinda unreliable if the opponent learns what to do.

I remember hearing someone (I think it was Leffen) say that Piranha Plant feels like they just ported a character from the previous game over into Ultimate, and I'm inclined to agree to some extent; It does seem to have similar design choices to those made in the previous game when deciding how much landing lag to give Aerial Attacks.

Piranha Plant is probably the only character in the game where all of its tools are simultaneously undertuned and super fun to use.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I think Little Mac should definitely still remain ground centric as I think that's a good direction to make him distinct, and I think the current design could fit on a Punch-Out!! boss of some kind (perhaps Glass Joe, with some altered and weirder properties to give him more Dan Hibiki vibes), but I don't think this polarizing of an approach works for Mac specifically. Because as is he's just kinda... really bad.

 

[Sucumbio]

I think Little Mac should definitely still remain ground centric as I think that's a good direction to make him distinct, and I think the current design could fit on a Punch-Out!! boss of some kind (perhaps Glass Joe, with some altered and weirder properties to give him more Dan Hibiki vibes), but I don't think this polarizing of an approach works for Mac specifically. Because as is he's just kinda... really bad.

Yeah during his reveal doc is like nah bro stay out the air this ain't no jagoff shoe shine tip!

He's probably the most... normal? Character... Like if you somehow transported a human into smash their mobility... Well mine anyway would be pretty bland. Maybe Bruce Lee or someone could handle being in smash but he'd have dodge like everything. Mac took down Mr Dream tho so he's definitely powerful in the video game sense but as a boxer who's also kinda just a dude his weak air and recovery are annoying and appropriate. Still could use a buff tho...

 

[DarthEnderX]

Ever heard of the phrase "the exception that proves the rule"

Yeah, it's a dumb phrase people use when their argument gets disproven.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Yeah, it's a dumb phrase people use when their argument gets disproven.

Did you not read a few posts below and see that whole exchange was merely a miscommunication on everyone involved?

 

[DarthEnderX]

Did you not read a few posts below and see that whole exchange was merely a miscommunication on everyone involved?

Which has no bearing on the phrase itself or how it's used.

A. [blanket statement]
B. [example disproving blanket statement]
A."E-exception that proves the rule!"

 

[subterrestrial]

I think Little Mac should definitely still remain ground centric as I think that's a good direction to make him distinct, and I think the current design could fit on a Punch-Out!! boss of some kind (perhaps Glass Joe, with some altered and weirder properties to give him more Dan Hibiki vibes), but I don't think this polarizing of an approach works for Mac specifically. Because as is he's just kinda... really bad.

y didnt they gave him his star punch that rewards him for winning ? even current mac can easily snowball a game, doesnt rly need a made up comeback mechanic imo. they could even give him a reflector that punches the projectiles back or something

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

y didnt they gave him his star punch that rewards him for winning ? even current mac can easily snowball a game, doesnt rly need a made up comeback mechanic imo. they could even give him a reflector that punches the projectiles back or something

The original K.O. Punch meter wasn't made up, but it was used by "Little Mac", and also rewarded skillful play rather than being a comeback mechanic.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

y didnt they gave him his star punch that rewards him for winning ? even current mac can easily snowball a game, doesnt rly need a made up comeback mechanic imo. they could even give him a reflector that punches the projectiles back or something

My Little Mac rework would retool both neutral and down special. Down special is still a counter, but if he lands, he gets a star seen next to his icon, and instead of launching foes away, it stuns them briefly, depending on how strong the attack is, how much damage the opponent has, and how many stars Little Mac has racked up. Meanwhile, neutral special has been completely removed because it's worthless as is, and replaced with a Star Punch that gets stronger the more stars he has. With a maximum of three stars, the Star Punch is incredibly powerful. However, like with KO Uppercut, if Little Mac gets damaged enough than he loses one of his stars. Both these moves reference how Punch-Out!! is a game of reading your opponent's movements, striking when you get the opportunity, and laying a powerful blow when they least expect.

Also this would likely remove KO Uppercut since Star Punches serve a similar purpose and are way easier to use, albeit the reward isn't an immediate stock.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

My Little Mac rework would retool both neutral and down special. Down special is still a counter, but if he lands, he gets a star seen next to his icon, and instead of launching foes away, it stuns them briefly, depending on how strong the attack is, how much damage the opponent has, and how many stars Little Mac has racked up. Meanwhile, neutral special has been completely removed because it's worthless as is, and replaced with a Star Punch that gets stronger the more stars he has. With a maximum of three stars, the Star Punch is incredibly powerful. However, like with KO Uppercut, if Little Mac gets damaged enough than he loses one of his stars. Both these moves reference how Punch-Out!! is a game of reading your opponent's movements, striking when you get the opportunity, and laying a powerful blow when they least expect.

Also this would likely remove KO Uppercut since Star Punches serve a similar purpose and are way easier to use, albeit the reward isn't an immediate stock.

If given the Star Punch system, Little Mac is fine with keeping Straight Lunge. It might be useless, but you're going to have at least one star more often than not, so it can serve the purpose of allowing the input to do something without any resources.

If you keep the K.O. Punch though, I would probably give him something else.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Arlo uploaded a new video.

 

[RoboFist]

I know we're all talking about Mac (rightfully so), but the thing that gets me the most?

In my honest, naive opinion, the only thing preventing Ridley from being a quality character is his weight. It completely clashes with his enormous hurtboxes to the point of actual detriment. Make him heavier (at least as heavy as Samus, ffs) so he can go back to being a Cunning God of Death instead of a Frustrated God of Being Juggled All The Time.

I know this has been discussed to death, but...dang.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I know we're all talking about Mac (rightfully so), but the thing that gets me the most?

In my honest, naive opinion, the only thing preventing Ridley from being a quality character is his weight. It completely clashes with his enormous hurtboxes to the point of actual detriment. Make him heavier (at least as heavy as Samus, ffs) so he can go back to being a Cunning God of Death instead of a Frustrated God of Being Juggled All The Time.

I know this has been discussed to death, but...dang.

View attachment 324807

My headcanon is that this is karma for everything he's done...

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

My headcanon is that this is karma for everything he's done...

My headcanon is that he's just emaciated.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

I think Spark the Electric Jester needs a bit more recognition so here's a song from the second game.

Anyway I wouldn't mind seeing a Mii costume for Spark because I like his design. However that would take a miracle to happen.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I know we're all talking about Mac (rightfully so), but the thing that gets me the most?

In my honest, naive opinion, the only thing preventing Ridley from being a quality character is his weight. It completely clashes with his enormous hurtboxes to the point of actual detriment. Make him heavier (at least as heavy as Samus, ffs) so he can go back to being a Cunning God of Death instead of a Frustrated God of Being Juggled All The Time.

I know this has been discussed to death, but...dang.

View attachment 324807

That'd be great but what I think he especially needs a good down air, why does his down air have such a bad hitbox, animation and leave him so vulnerable when the tail stab he's mostly known for are all from when he's in the air

 

[LAA9000]

To help narrow down who CP11 could be, I have stretched Fix/Second Chance Theory to encompass almost every universe currently with a playable fighter in Smash:

Spoiler: Long wall o' text

• Super Mario: Why are Mario, Luigi and Wario playable, but not Waluigi?
• Donkey Kong: Dixie Kong was planned for Brawl; why not add her?
• The Legend of Zelda: Why are all the Zelda fighters variants of Link, Zelda or Ganon?
• Metroid: Why are there so many upgrades that Samus doesn't use in Smash?
• Yoshi: Why did Yoshi's Woolly World not get a fighter while it was relevant?
• Kirby: Why are Sakurai-developed Kirby games the only ones with fighters or stages?
• Star Fox: Krystal was considered for Brawl; why not add her?
• Pokémon: Why did Gens 3 and 5 not get fighters while they were relevant?
• Mother/EarthBound: Why do EarthBound and Mother 3 have fighters, but not EarthBound Beginnings?
• F-Zero: Why did this series as a whole not get more fighters while it was relevant? sobs
• Ice Climber: Balloon Fighter, Excitebiker, Urban Champion and Bubbles were considered for Melee instead of Ice Climbers; why not add them?
• Fire Emblem: Why did Thracia 776 and Echoes not get fighters while they were relevant?
• Game & Watch: Why are there so many Game & Watch games that Mr. Game & Watch doesn't reference in Smash?
• Kid Icarus: Why are there so many Uprising weapons that Pit doesn't use in Smash?
• Wario: Why are there so many Wario Land abilities that Wario doesn't use in Smash?
• Metal Gear: Why is there no Metal Gear Rising content in Smash, barring Raiden and Gray Fox's Spirit artwork?
• Sonic the Hedgehog: Why are there so many abilities that Sonic doesn't use in Smash?
• Pikmin: Why is Alph still an alt costume when he'd be a perfect Echo Fighter?
• R.O.B: Why is Stack-Up not referenced in Smash?
• Animal Crossing: Why is Tom Nook not in Smash when he was the series' mascot before Isabelle?
• Mega Man: Why are there so many Robot Master abilities that Mega Man doesn't use in Smash?
• Wii Fit: Why is Wii Fit the only Wii series game with a fighter?
• Punch-Out!!: Why are there only 5 Punch-Out!! music tracks in Smash, with none from Super Punch-Out!!?
• Super Smash Bros.: Many other fighting games make their bosses playable; why doesn't Smash?
• Pac-Man: Why did Pac-Maze not get brought back for Ultimate?
• Xenoblade Chronicles: Why do Xenoblade 1 and 2 have fighters, but not X?
• Duck Hunt: ...I've got nothing. This series is already handled so well in Smash.
• Street Fighter: Why is SF2 the only SF game with music tracks in Smash?
• Final Fantasy: Why is FF7 the only FF game with Smash representation?
• Bayonetta: Why are there so many weapons that Bayonetta doesn't use in Smash?
• Splatoon: Why are there so many weapons that Inkling doesn't use in Smash?
• CastleVania: Alucard was considered for Ultimate instead of Simon and Richter; why not add him?
• Persona: Why is P5 the only Persona game with a fighter?
• Dragon Quest: Sakurai would've been fine with using Slime for Ultimate instead of Hero; why not add them?
• Banjo-Kazooie: Like with Duck Hunt, I've got nothing.
• Fatal Fury: Nothing, again.
• Arms: Ninjara was considered for Ultimate instead of Min Min; why not add him?
• Minecraft: Why are there no original Minecraft music tracks in Smash?
• Tekken: Heihachi was considered for Smash 4 and Ultimate instead of Kazuya; why not add him?

This list was meant to be a demonstration of why I dislike Fix/Second Chance Theory, but some of my stretches ended up being so comically large that I had to treat it as a joke. This theory might hold up regardless, but I still dislike it - it switches from being about adding fighters that were previously considered but scrapped (, , to an extent) to adding content that was noticeably missing from the base game () to adding fighters that only took a long time to negotiate (), in a way that feels like speculators are trying too hard to make one of their theories come true for once... Or it might be my fear of it being the first theory that has a good chance of being true.

Yes, I didn't bother at times with capitalisation. I'm probably the only one around here who does, and it doesn't matter that much.

 

[Theguy123]

Okay so let’s put speculation aside for a moment and let me ask the question. What are some of the biggest mysteries to do with smash that still exist to this day. I’ll start

Wether porky is in the absolute safe capsule

where is the Luigi mansion 3 spirit event

who were the missing spirit events that were discovered to be missing

let’s carry on the thread as we ask the unsolved questions

 

[Sucumbio]

all that

You're right! That was quite long

 

[Bobthealligator]

I think the best way to keep Mac ground based but make him, well, useable is to change his aerials so that while they keep their unwieldy hitboxes, they actually function as aerials. Have it be that they actually do something, do a bit more damage and can actually be used as comboes, maybe let one of them kill at highish percents, and reduce their landing lag so they can start combines on the ground (the dumbest feature if you think about it as the high landing lag, actually hurts him where he's supposed to thrive). He'll still be a ground fighter predominately as his air speed will still suck but he'll be useable.

 

[Sucumbio]

Man I suck! I could only recognize 2 =(

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Okay so let’s put speculation aside for a moment and let me ask the question. What are some of the biggest mysteries to do with smash that still exist to this day. I’ll start

Wether porky is in the absolute safe capsule

where is the Luigi mansion 3 spirit event

who were the missing spirit events that were discovered to be missing

let’s carry on the thread as we ask the unsolved questions

The first one is as much of a mystery as whether or not Rayman is on the banner, the second isn't considered a big deal by 90% of speculators and this doesn't have stuff like PraiMai or how other known scrapped content would be handled

 

[True Blue Warrior]

it switches from being about adding fighters that were previously considered but scrapped (,

ARMS and Xenoblade 2 characters were never scrapped for the base game, only referred to when talking about why they weren’t considered for the base roster.

 

[RoboFist]

Okay, I know you're playin' and I'm about to prove you right by being exactly one of the people you're making fun of right now, but...

• Donkey Kong: Dixie Kong was planned for Brawl; why not add her?
• Pokémon: Why did Gens 3 and 5 not get fighters while they were relevant?
• Wario: Why are there so many Wario Land abilities that Wario doesn't use in Smash?
• Pikmin: Why is Alph still an alt costume when he'd be a perfect Echo Fighter?
• R.O.B: Why is Stack-Up not referenced in Smash?
• Pac-Man: Why did Pac-Maze not get brought back for Ultimate?

...these are genuinely good questions.

• Banjo-Kazooie: Like with Duck Hunt, I've got nothing.

Why didn't we get a Mumbo Mii Swordfighter costume, Sakurai/Nintendo/Microsoft?!?

This list was meant to be a demonstration of why I dislike Fix/Second Chance Theory, but some of my stretches ended up being so comically large that I had to treat it as a joke. This theory might hold up regardless, but I still dislike it - it switches from being about adding fighters that were previously considered but scrapped (, , to an extent) to adding content that was noticeably missing from the base game () to adding fighters that only took a long time to negotiate (), in a way that feels like speculators are trying too hard to make one of their theories come true for once... Or it might be my fear of it being the first theory that has a good chance of being true.

Yes, I didn't bother at times with capitalisation. I'm probably the only one around here who does, and it doesn't matter that much.

It's interesting that you view "Second Chance Theory" that way, because while I'm a big believer in it, I never use it to "predict" anyone. It's remarkably unhelpful for that. It's only satisfying for me almost exclusively in hindsight.

Because how were any of us supposed to know that Minecraft content had been in negotiations for the past half decade? Or that SE were going to play nice with Sakurai to finally work out the copyright issues surrounding the FF7 music? We already got a Mii costume from Tekken, our arbitrary rules dictated that it was deconfirmed!

I get more joy out of watching the pieces fall into "Second Chance Theory" rather than using it as a treasure map to who's next. Because even if you want to call it all a huge coincidence, I like believing that Sakurai and Nintendo are using FP2 as a means of covering all of their bases before wrapping up this game. It all makes sense to me so far, but yeah, using it to predict anything is pretty dang ridiculous.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

ARMS and Xenoblade 2 characters were never scrapped for the base game, only referred to when talking about why they weren’t considered for the base roster.

You mean, why they didn't get past the consideration stage. They obviously were considered. XD

But yeah, we rarely get scrapped content for DLC with Smash(scrapped ideas returning in a later game is a different story). Sakurai tends to avoid that cause he actually wants every game to be finished from the start. Ultimate might be the only case, with HRC being not in the base game. Assuming it even had any work done before the DLC period.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

You mean, why they didn't get past the consideration stage. They obviously were considered. XD

Xenoblade 2 and ARMs characters just had bad timing for the project plan. pic.twitter.com/PR4qS30leP

— Will (PushDustIn) (@PushDustIn) January 20, 2019

There was no indication they were ever really seriously thought about, only talked about in relation to why they never had a chance for the base game. It’s like “ Oh hey, you exist, but you were too late to the party kid, better luck next time!”