Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[SMAASH! Puppy]

if nintendo had a history-making games like hyrule warriors or spin-offs like FF Dissidia these other characters would have more set fanbase.

It would be cool if they had a series or two dedicated to using older characters like this. Well, Super Mario doesn't need it, but the other series could benefit from it.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I think that's one of the reasons the limited casts of the recent RPG's are so disappointing to people. The world being filled with cameos from the likes of Wart, Birdo, E Gadd, Pauline, and King Boo would be fun and give the setting a semi-connection to those games that came before it.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

View attachment 298511
Mario Kart Wii is the 12th best selling video game of all time. Calling it a "dirty, scum-of-the-earth spin-off that could never amount to anything" is just insulting to everyone who played it (me included).

You’re talking to the guy with the Daisy pfp, I was being sarcastic.

 

[DevaAshera]

Wait it's...not the other way around?

Huh...Wario's representation is so weird he is the only character who's victory theme is completely made up...Well...He and Mr. Game & Watch.

Yup, the composer for Wario Land: Shake It! said he was provided Wario's Brawl victory theme as a musical reference.
It's weird as Wario has so many victory themes to choose from between the Wario Land, Wario World, and WarioWare games..I don't know why they made an original piece for his..

From experience, this has been my concern about Rhythm Heaven too. I feel like the support is there for an additional character but it has never felt incredibly strong because of a lack of a true "obvious" choice and disagreements about how the series is best represented. Meanwhile Golden Sun for example, a series that is quite a bit smaller than Rhythm Heaven, still gets more support on the basis of a stronger, obvious candidate for the role in Isaac. I'm sure there's other factors at play such as RPGs feeling more automatically suited for Smash than a rhythm game, but in general I think it's clear why you never see RH topping polls but you may see three different RH characters scattered among the top like... 120 characters or something.

You can also look at something like DK, which was in a bit of a different situation since Zelda at least has its major players already, but K. Rool fans really knew how to fight for what they wanted. They made that support very clear, that they wanted KING K. ROOL and not just a "Donkey Kong rep". I have to commend Bandana Dee's supporters for this too - personally I just want any new Kirby character, but I think it's practical to back the one that has the best realistic shot and to unify behind that to get additional content. Even if personally I don't do that.

In other words, I agree with you.



I think it should be Skull Kid or Midna. Impa is a character I could never really get behind because she's always felt a little more like trying to find the "next most important" character rather than the one who would genuinely be the coolest or most fun. Everyone is a significant step down from the Triforce Trio as is, so dipping into some of these very popular and iconic characters who only showed up in a couple games isn't egregious at all.

Nobody can deny the popularity of those two. I always fluctuate on which one I think should get in first, although I'd be a liiiiittle more inclined to say Skull Kid just because Majora's Mask is such an important piece of video game iconography. I'd be really happy with them both and I think their longstanding popularity and significance beyond their time in the spotlight is a testament to their worth as characters, where I doubt there would be much issue or concern about adding someone who is kind of 'old news' in the context of the series.

Oh wait I almost forgot, screw those guys. Beedle is superior.

I feel like the next Legend of Zelda character that would make the most sense is Tingle of all people..he's very well known (and popular in Japan with hatred for him in the West starting to simmer down), has appeared in a variety of games, including his own solo games, would have a crap ton of moveset potential..just look at his solo games & Hyrule Warriors for proof of that..and he is fairly consistent throughout his appearances unlike Impa & Ganon. He's also one of the three reoccurring named characters that aren't already in along with Impa & Ganon (who's technically in as a Final Smash, but could easily be made a character in his Trident Wielding Pig Form ala Link to the Past).
The fact that Tingle hasnt made it in yet is honestly surprising since he seems right up Sakurai's alley.

I don't want Tingle, mind you, just stating he seems the most likely for a new Zelda rep.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

You’re talking to the guy with the Daisy pfp, I was being sarcastic.

For a next time, maybe follow up with or as they’re our designated “sarcasm” emotes

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

While I think he's less hated in the West now, Tingle might be one of the few fighters whose inclusion (over other potential Zelda reps) would be so hated that it might actually compel some Western Smash fans to apologize to the FE fandom for not realizing how good they had it.

 

[blackghost]

It would be cool if they had a series or two dedicated to using older characters like this. Well, Super Mario doesn't need it, but the other series could benefit from it.

nintendo seems to be more open to it now. between the AoC and stuff like the zelda rythm game.
id love to see a FE fighting game made with Soulcalibur's engine. and a starfox game like command but a lot more refined. they could make a great online third-person shooter with star fox characters.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

For a next time, maybe follow up with or as they’re our designated “sarcasm” emotes

I didn’t know some people would be so eager to jump on their interpretation of a byline sentence but sure

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Considering how hot the want for a new Zelda Rep is as of late, putting Tingle in would be like lighting a cigarette while pumping gas.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I didn’t know some people would be so eager to jump on their interpretation of a byline sentence but sure

... works too I forgot that’s a thing cause I see ppl using the 4 version more

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Considering how hot the want for a new Zelda Rep is as of late, putting Tingle in would be like lighting a cigarette while pumping gas.

Well it would be a The Legend of Zelda rep.

...

Unless it would be a Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland rep...

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Considering how hot the want for a new Zelda Rep is as of late, putting Tingle in would be like lighting a cigarette while pumping gas.

Putting Tingle in for the new Zelda rep would be throwing dozens of oil and then lighting a match-stick on the Zelda Fandom.

 

[Louie G.]

I've always found it odd how people undermine Mario spinoffs in the context of speculation, to put down characters like Daisy or Waluigi as less significant "spinoff fodder" and whatnot. I think the idea that Smash is only concerned about significance within the main series is completely wrong.

What a lot of people seem to ignore is just how significant Mario's spinoffs are to its brand in general. Mario Kart has pretty much transcended the main series in popularity and notoriety. Mario sports games and Mario Party are extremely popular in their own right and do just about as well as some of your main series titles too. To your average gamer, Daisy and Waluigi are part of the main cast of Mario characters.

And from what I've gathered from Nintendo themselves, they seem to feel the same way. Toward Daisy at least, probably to give their young female fans another girl to identify with but Daisy has a major presence at Super Nintendo World in addition to more frequent appearances in stuff like Super Mario Run and now Smash Bros. I've never understood what people have against Daisy specifically, she's built herself up to be one of the most prominent characters in the series despite Nintendo keeping her out of the "main series" games.

Rosalina on the other hand still does manage to show up in spinoffs pretty consistently, but has fallen quite a bit from her time in the spotlight back during the Wii and Wii U era. I still think she's a good addition to Smash, but IMO has aged a little bit in that respect. Even though she's been in more main series titles than Daisy, the latter has been more consistently relevant to Nintendo's own marketing and public perception of the franchise. She does have some stickers / badges whatever at Super Nintendo World too... meanwhile Wario doesn't make an appearance at all. Pretty weird.

Bottom line I think the distinction between Mario's main series titles and his spinoff games is way overblown. Someone like Daisy still manages to be consistently relevant and important by virtue of being in... literally everything else. Meanwhile despite Rosalina's more frequent appearances in "actual" Mario games, she finds herself playing third wheel to Peach and Daisy more often than not.

Poor Toad

 

[SpecterFlower]

I've always found it odd how people undermine Mario spinoffs in the context of speculation, to put down characters like Daisy or Waluigi as less significant "spinoff fodder" and whatnot. I think the idea that Smash is only concerned about significance within the main series is completely wrong.

What a lot of people seem to ignore is just how significant Mario's spinoffs are to its brand in general. Mario Kart has pretty much transcended the main series in popularity and notoriety. Mario sports games and Mario Party are extremely popular in their own right and do just about as well as some of your main series titles too. To your average gamer, Daisy and Waluigi are part of the main cast of Mario characters.

And from what I've gathered from Nintendo themselves, they seem to feel the same way. Toward Daisy at least, probably to give their young female fans another girl to identify with but Daisy has a major presence at Super Nintendo World in addition to more frequent appearances in stuff like Super Mario Run and now Smash Bros. I've never understood what people have against Daisy specifically, she's built herself up to be one of the most prominent characters in the series despite Nintendo keeping her out of the "main series" games.

Rosalina on the other hand still does manage to show up in spinoffs pretty consistently, but has fallen quite a bit from her time in the spotlight back during the Wii and Wii U era. I still think she's a good addition to Smash, but IMO has aged a little bit in that respect. Even though she's been in more main series titles than Daisy, the latter has been more consistently relevant to Nintendo's own marketing and public perception of the franchise. She does have some stickers / patches whatever at Super Nintendo World too... over Wario of all characters, who doesn't make an appearance at all. Pretty weird.

Bottom line I think the distinction between Mario's main series titles and his spinoff games is way overblown. Someone like Daisy still manages to be consistently relevant and important by virtue of being in... literally everything else. Meanwhile despite Rosalina's more frequent appearances in "actual" Mario games, she finds herself playing third wheel to Peach and Daisy more often than not.

Poor Toad

I agree, at this point Mario Kat is twice as big as the main series games, So not counting the most popular part of the Mario franchise doesn't make much sense.

 

[DevaAshera]

While I think he's less hated in the West now, Tingle might be one of the few fighters whose inclusion (over other potential Zelda reps) would be so hated that it might actually compel some Western Smash fans to apologize to the FE fandom for not realizing how good they had it.

He's definitely a Monkey's Paw pick, but I feel if the prerequisite was just 'new non-Triforce Trio Zelda rep', he'd be it, and since Sakurai hasn't done so yet, I don't think one-off characters are ones he considers for Zelda reps, aside from Sheik who got in due to being tied to Zelda and is now a Legacy character.

I think of one-offs, Midna would be the most likely, since unlike Ghirahim, who's popularity has died down some and seems to have been a Flavour of the Month pick, Midna is still surprisingly popular and has a lot of potential..though she'd still technically be a Triforce Trio pick since she'd probably join as 'Midna & Wolf Link' or 'Wolf Link & Midna' rather than just Midna.

Considering how hot the want for a new Zelda Rep is as of late, putting Tingle in would be like lighting a cigarette while pumping gas.

Putting Tingle in for the new Zelda rep would be throwing dozens of oil and then lighting a match-stick on the Zelda Fandom.

Only in the West, remember that Tingle is very popular in Japan..like I said though, he'd be a Monkey's Paw pick for the West..a case of 'careful what you wish for'.
That said, he'd be more likely as a base game pick than a DLC pick.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

It will be interesting to see the speculation scene if/when the next Smash comes out. As I've said Impa's profile has been raised but depending on the nature of LoZ releases/re-releases in the next couple of years could put some initially unlikely characters in position to possibly get in.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Spoiler: Image

I still can't get over how they're selling fancy slap bracelets. That's not to say that they're stupid or anything, they just wouldn't be my first guess.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

I still can't get over how they're selling fancy slap bracelets. That's not to say that they're stupid or anything, they just wouldn't be my first guess.

They're actually fairly common for theme parks. Pretty sure Disney's used em too.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

though she'd still technically be a Triforce Trio pick since she'd probably join as 'Midna & Wolf Link' or 'Wolf Link & Midna' rather than just Midna.

I think Wolf Link & Midna would be the true monkey's paw situation. It is a non-Triforce character, but it also isn't.


I'd love them though, and that's all that matters.

They're actually fairly common for theme parks. Pretty sure Disney's used em too.

Ah, I wasn't aware of that.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I think of any TLoZ characters. It's reasonable alongside Impa that Ganon (Classic blue version) should be next in line for a rep.

Among the last Nintendo all-stars alongside Impa, Bandana Dee, and Dixie Kong and one of Nintendo's most iconic villains as well as video games of all time.

It'd also be cool to see a heavyweight magic user. I feel he earns to get in before the likes of those like Skull Kid and Midna.

 

[Cosmic77]

I've always found it odd how people undermine Mario spinoffs in the context of speculation, to put down characters like Daisy or Waluigi as less significant "spinoff fodder" and whatnot. I think the idea that Smash is only concerned about significance within the main series is completely wrong.

What a lot of people seem to ignore is just how significant Mario's spinoffs are to its brand in general. Mario Kart has pretty much transcended the main series in popularity and notoriety. Mario sports games and Mario Party are extremely popular in their own right and do just about as well as some of your main series titles too. To your average gamer, Daisy and Waluigi are part of the main cast of Mario characters.

And from what I've gathered from Nintendo themselves, they seem to feel the same way. Toward Daisy at least, probably to give their young female fans another girl to identify with but Daisy has a major presence at Super Nintendo World in addition to more frequent appearances in stuff like Super Mario Run and now Smash Bros. I've never understood what people have against Daisy specifically, she's built herself up to be one of the most prominent characters in the series despite Nintendo keeping her out of the "main series" games.

View attachment 298512

Rosalina on the other hand still does manage to show up in spinoffs pretty consistently, but has fallen quite a bit from her time in the spotlight back during the Wii and Wii U era. I still think she's a good addition to Smash, but IMO has aged a little bit in that respect. Even though she's been in more main series titles than Daisy, the latter has been more consistently relevant to Nintendo's own marketing and public perception of the franchise. She does have some stickers / badges whatever at Super Nintendo World too... meanwhile Wario doesn't make an appearance at all. Pretty weird.

Bottom line I think the distinction between Mario's main series titles and his spinoff games is way overblown. Someone like Daisy still manages to be consistently relevant and important by virtue of being in... literally everything else. Meanwhile despite Rosalina's more frequent appearances in "actual" Mario games, she finds herself playing third wheel to Peach and Daisy more often than not.

Poor Toad

Well, you have to keep in mind that a lot of the studios making these spinoffs have been including Daisy in their games for so long that she's become a bit of a staple. It's taken years for Rosalina to get a foothold in the various spinoffs, and the same thing will probably happen to Pauline. Takes a while to build up an image.

As time goes on, Rosalina will become more and more recognizable. I'd argue that she's still the most popular female character among Mario fans, and her list of appearances has been increasing year by year. For now though, I'd say Daisy is easier for Nintendo to promote, and that's because she has ten to fifteen more years of appearances in some of these spinoffs than Rosa.

 

[Louie G.]

Well, you have to keep in mind that a lot of the studios making these spinoffs have been including Daisy in their games for so long that she's become a bit of a staple. It's taken years for Rosalina to get a foothold in the various spinoffs, and the same thing will probably happen to Pauline. Takes a while to build up an image.

As time goes on, Rosalina will become more and more recognizable. I'd argue that she's still the most popular female character among Mario fans, and her list of appearances has been increasing year by year. For now though, I'd say Daisy is easier for Nintendo to promote, and that's because she has ten to fifteen more years of appearances in some of these spinoffs than Rosa.

Yeah absolutely, my intent wasn't to undermine Rosalina as much as it was to highlight that simply appearing in spinoffs for the majority of their appearances doesn't necessarily make a Mario character any less significant than one that's popped up in a main series game here and there. A lot of people just overinflate the significance of one role in the series over the other when it comes to Smash discussion / character importance.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I think Wolf Link & Midna would be the true monkey's paw situation. It is a non-Triforce character, but it also isn't.


I'd love them though, and that's all that matters.


Ah, I wasn't aware of that.

I do not mind this at all, they would be awesome!

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Well, you have to keep in mind that a lot of the studios making these spinoffs have been including Daisy in their games for so long that she's become a bit of a staple. It's taken years for Rosalina to get a foothold in the various spinoffs, and the same thing will probably happen to Pauline. Takes a while to build up an image.

As time goes on, Rosalina will become more and more recognizable. I'd argue that she's still the most popular female character among Mario fans, and her list of appearances has been increasing year by year. For now though, I'd say Daisy is easier for Nintendo to promote, and that's because she has ten to fifteen more years of appearances in some of these spinoffs than Rosa.

While I'm not sure she is the most popular, I think there is a good chance she will be pretty high up there as a more reserved character in a series where everyone's energy levels are always through the roof.

 

[Dinoman96]

Honestly I think some people overstate Tingle's significance a bit lol.

Like sure, he did show up more in Zelda games than other characters, but it's not like he was a really important, crucial character. He's just kind of a merchant. His biggest claim to fame is probably the very thing that made him so hated to begin with, the Triforce quest in Wind Waker.

To his credit, he DOES have his own line of games, but....in addition to not getting a new game in over 10 years, none of those games even received a proper worldwide release, so it's kind of made moot.

 

[pupNapoleon]

From experience, this has been my concern about Rhythm Heaven too. I feel like the support is there for an additional character but it has never felt incredibly strong because of a lack of a true "obvious" choice and disagreements about how the series is best represented. Meanwhile Golden Sun for example, a series that is quite a bit smaller than Rhythm Heaven, still gets more support on the basis of a stronger, obvious candidate for the role in Isaac. I'm sure there's other factors at play such as RPGs feeling more automatically suited for Smash than a rhythm game, but in general I think it's clear why you never see RH topping polls but you may see three different RH characters scattered among the top like... 120 characters or something.

I don't agree with RPG's being more suited. I think platformers and fighting characters are clearly suited for a fighting platformer- and we barely have any fighting genre in the roster. I think we just get more RPG characters, and that the internet is exceptionally vocal towards the RPG characters.

DK has the same as Star Fox because the latter's were easy to implement regardless of which one is bigger in prominence or sales.

Donkey Kong's characters could have been easily implemented- Dixie Kong could have been based on Diddy as closely as Falco or Wolf were based on Fox....and Donkey Kong Jr could have been the Pichu-ified version of DK. They just weren't chosen.

 

[Louie G.]

I don't agree with RPG's being more suited. I think platformers and fighting characters are clearly suited for a fighting platformer- and we barely have any fighting genre in the roster. I think we just get more RPG characters, and that the internet is exceptionally vocal towards the RPG characters.

I mostly meant that there's more precedent for RPG characters as is, and they display a clearer ability to fight and an easier moveset to envision. Isaac is the clear protagonist of his series and his moveset writes itself.

As opposed to, in my example, something a lot more abstract like Chorus Kids or a Rhythm Girl from a genre that requires a lot of creative liberty to implement into Smash and characters who are less defined and not distinctly "main characters". Rhythm Heaven has ample fan support in theory but it's harder to rally behind one thing, and on top of that also difficult to convince people that it's a concept worth supporting.

I would agree that fighting game characters and platforming characters are the most "natural" fits but that also wasn't really the point I was trying to make.

 

[Cosmic77]

TBH the speculation scene for Zelda hasn't changed much since Brawl. Yeah, there's been some ups and downs in terms of who had the most support back then compared to now, but overall, we're suggesting the same characters. Many of these characters fall into one of two groups: characters who haven't done much in years, and characters who have appeared in multiple games over the years but have been constantly overshadowed by other, more important characters. Neither is a very desirable group to fall in. I think that's part of the reason why it's taking so long to get a new Zelda character. If you're Sakurai, and you're whittling down your list to about ten characters, it might be hard to justify keeping some of these Zelda characters over characters from other franchises.

A majority of the characters who don't have a massive amount of fans pushing for their inclusion like Ridley and K. Rool did rely on relevancy, and every unique first-party in Ultimate besides the latter two have been fairly relevant in recent years. With that in mind, it becomes harder to give priority to choices like Skull Kid and Midna when they seem a little dated compared to Inkling, Isabelle, and Incineroar.

Then you have options like Tingle and Impa, characters who are a staple to the Zelda series, but are almost always on the sidelines while others are handed the spotlight. They have a long history, they usually have the relevancy, but there's always at least one character who would be a better representative for a game they appeared in than them.

Personally, I think our best bet is relevancy and timing. If there's a big Zelda game that comes out right before Sakurai starts development, and if there's a notable character from that game who's high on the totem pole of importance, I think they might have a legitimate chance.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I mostly meant that there's more precedent for RPG characters as is, and they display a clearer ability to fight and an easier moveset to envision. Isaac is the clear protagonist of his series and his moveset writes itself.

As opposed to, in my example, something a lot more abstract like Chorus Kids or a Rhythm Girl from a genre that requires a lot of creative liberty to implement into Smash and characters who are less defined and not distinctly "main characters". Rhythm Heaven has ample fan support in theory but it's harder to rally behind one thing, and on top of that also difficult to convince people that it's a concept worth supporting.

I would agree that fighting game characters and platforming characters are the most "natural" fits but that also wasn't really the point I was trying to make.

Yeah unfortunately that's a problem that many characters who don't usually fight in their own series will have. I'm a big supporter of Rhythm heaven and Layton for Smash and one argument that I always see is "how would they fight? They do nothing in their game". Isaac it's pretty easy to imagine how he would fight, even if you haven't played the game (he has a sword and elemental power). But people always wonder "how is a signing weird thing and a gentleman who don't fight in their game would work in Smash?". RPG characters work very well in Smash because they fight a lot in their own franchise.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

I'm a big supporter of Rhythm heaven and Layton for Smash and one argument that I always see is "how would they fight? They do nothing in their game

Thats where Level 5 gets ya, layton fights plenty in his games

 

[Firox]

All this talk about what constitutes a character being obscure, or at least too obscure for Smash. Makes me wonder, who would you say is technically the most obscure character in Smash prior to their inclusion? As in, of the entire roster, which fighter seems like the most far out, seemingly random pick? I imagine most of the main protagonist characters would be off the table unless the franchise itself is super obscure.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

All this talk about what constitutes a character being obscure, or at least too obscure for Smash. Makes me wonder, who would you say is technically the most obscure character in Smash prior to their inclusion? As in, of the entire roster, which fighter seems like the most far out, seemingly random pick? I imagine most of the main protagonist characters would be off the table unless the franchise itself is super obscure.

Probably either Mr. Game & Watch, or the Ice Climbers.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

All this talk about what constitutes a character being obscure, or at least too obscure for Smash. Makes me wonder, who would you say is technically the most obscure character in Smash prior to their inclusion? As in, of the entire roster, which fighter seems like the most far out, seemingly random pick? I imagine most of the main protagonist characters would be off the table unless the franchise itself is super obscure.

Ice Climbers or Lucas.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

All this talk about what constitutes a character being obscure, or at least too obscure for Smash. Makes me wonder, who would you say is technically the most obscure character in Smash prior to their inclusion? As in, of the entire roster, which fighter seems like the most far out, seemingly random pick? I imagine most of the main protagonist characters would be off the table unless the franchise itself is super obscure.

For his game being a Japanese exclusive release, on top of making his Smash debut before anyone could play said game, I'd say Roy was probably up there.

 

[Louie G.]

All this talk about what constitutes a character being obscure, or at least too obscure for Smash. Makes me wonder, who would you say is technically the most obscure character in Smash prior to their inclusion? As in, of the entire roster, which fighter seems like the most far out, seemingly random pick? I imagine most of the main protagonist characters would be off the table unless the franchise itself is super obscure.

It's an obvious answer, but Roy right? He literally didn't even exist prior to Melee and Fire Emblem was exclusive to Japan. I don't think there's much competition.

Outside of that, Lucas in Brawl because he was never localized and Mother 3 buzz really only took off after that. You could make a case for Game & Watch since he's pretty much a Smash OC but I think more people would at least recognize him a as reference to the Game & Watch peripheral than they would recognize a character who didn't exist yet from a series they probably didn't know existed either.

 

[Munchi]

All this talk about what constitutes a character being obscure, or at least too obscure for Smash. Makes me wonder, who would you say is technically the most obscure character in Smash prior to their inclusion? As in, of the entire roster, which fighter seems like the most far out, seemingly random pick? I imagine most of the main protagonist characters would be off the table unless the franchise itself is super obscure.

I think Ice Climbers

 

[SharkLord]

Yeah unfortunately that's a problem that many characters who don't usually fight in their own series will have. I'm a big supporter of Rhythm heaven and Layton for Smash and one argument that I always see is "how would they fight? They do nothing in their game". Isaac it's pretty easy to imagine how he would fight, even if you haven't played the game (he has a sword and elemental power). But people always wonder "how is a signing weird thing and a gentleman who don't fight in their game would work in Smash?". RPG characters work very well in Smash because they fight a lot in their own franchise.

Yeah, combat-based games are generally going to fit better than nonviolent ones. If I had to order genres based on how well they translate to Smash:

• 2D Platformers and fighters are obviously the best suites, as those are the main genres Smash is based on. The former has the mechanics needed for Smash, such as recovery and the like, while the latter has more offensive moves to work with.
• RPGs, hack-and-slash, action-adventure, and other such combat-focused games also have the mechanics and attacks necessary, but need some liberties to make it work. These are generally turn-based or 3D, so changed must be made to accommodate the 2D perspective.
• Top-down shooters, racing games, and other games that have some degree of action but not detailed combat are a bit tricky, as there isn't as much to draw from, much less make work in a fighting game. Some things can be drawn from the games, but it's definitely not going to be a 1-to-1 comparison.
• Nonviolent games like Animal Crossing and Rhythm Heaven, are the hardest to make work as they just don't fight. Lots of freestyling, experimentation, and originality is needed to make these work, as there just isn't much action when it comes to them.

 

[MooMew64]

For his game being a Japanese exclusive release, on top of making his Smash debut before anyone could play said game, I'd say Roy was probably up there.

Yeah, I second this. Only others I can think of that might be similar are Game & Watch and Ice Climbers, but they at least had western releases, so Roy and Lucas are probably the most obscure to the casual audience IMHO.

 

[SpecterFlower]

All this talk about what constitutes a character being obscure, or at least too obscure for Smash. Makes me wonder, who would you say is technically the most obscure character in Smash prior to their inclusion? As in, of the entire roster, which fighter seems like the most far out, seemingly random pick? I imagine most of the main protagonist characters would be off the table unless the franchise itself is super obscure.

ice climbers. at least ROB was the trojan horse the NES disguised itself in and game & watch has sold 43 million unit's so there are probably a few people who could recognize them.

If it was for 3rd parties only i would say banjo and terry.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I really don't think Lucas was as obscure as a duo from what was just another arcade style platformer, and an OC inspired by a series of low tech handhelds from the 80's.

EDIT: I suppose by virtue of being an OC, Mr. Game & Watch would technically be even more obscure than Roy because the only people who would know about the character are the Smash devs.