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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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N3ON

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This is already generous in making two big assumptions - that one, we'd even get a fan-favourite non-recent first-party as DLC, which doesn't seem to be a category they want to address in this stage of additions, and two, that ATs are on the table.

We're just acting like those two big hurdles aren't even part of the picture, because we have to presume they won't be to even get this far in the debate. That's another reason why this outcome is mired with potential hangups.
 

WeirdChillFever

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to be fair i'm also in a timezone where i should be sleeping instead of ******** about people thinking isaac goldman has a lower chance than goku and shrek combined
Alright then I’m gonna be harsh and say you should go to bed. You’re allowed to waste my time but I won’t allow you to waste your own. Let’s just end on my personal stance on Isaac which is that in order to get him to be the absolutely most likely guy for the job you need a lot of ifs and buts (Ballot-Popular Assist Trophy from an unrepresented series) but for him to be like in the top 10 there’s “only” the pre-requisite that Sakurai chooses an old ballot first party favorite. I don’t see that as a very likely scenario in the first place, so being in the top 10 characters that fullfill that quota isn’t going to get my ears perked but he’s not zero-percent-chance impossible and that’s not just technically speaking.
 

pupNapoleon

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No, but it does mean Smash fans like to exaggerate how obscure he is and therefore disqualify him based on that. You're the opposite of most Smash fans nowadays, acting like he'd be hype on the same level as Steve.
Just pay it no mind. Isaac's first game sold as many units as Joker's main game.

Also- as someone who has had Isaac at the top of the list for 13 years, I just don't think it is happening. Sakurai has clearly known of the character for a long time, but he has always decided something else is better. While Earthbound, Xenoblade, and Fire Emblem are all very amply represented, the only other Nintendo RPG series (that isn't Mario or Pokemon) has remained absent. I honestly just don't think Sakurai cares for Golden Sun, or else it would have been a priority long ago.
Smash is a game made by Sakurai, not a democracy, and there are dozens upon dozens of examples of his opinion swaying the roster. And that's just what the reality is for it. I would be pleasantly shocked to see Isaac make it, but I just cannot see it happening. The only times I remained optimistic were for base game- but really, that only seemed to amount to a couple of characters- K Rool, Ridley...maybe Isabelle (Though I don't know how big she was in that 2015/16 era, barely after her inception), and maybe the Belmonts (but honestly I doubt this was the reason). Without question, we were going to get Inkling and a new Pokemon.
 
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ZelDan

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Earlier in the thread I said that the idea of a ballot pick being CP11 isn't likely, and when saying that, it obviously extends to Isaac, when there are dozens of other characters that could be chosen for various of other reasons, and when Isaac does indeed have a number hangups that could screw him. So yes, chances aren't looking so good for the golden boi.

That said, as far as "ballot picks" go, Isaac is highly likely to be very damn high up the list. He might even be the next in line after Banjo, if those Smash 4 fighter ballot exit polls are to be trusted (which IIRC they WERE mostly accurate, with the only flub on those polls being that they missed the Belmonts). I definitely don't think something like this can be discounted or completely ignored, especially in a game like Ultimate where the Smash Ballot has been pretty ingrained its DNA.

So yeah, Isaac definitely isn't likely at all, but also definitely is not an impossibility.

Also I need to get some sleep too lol.
 

pupNapoleon

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Hey people try to disprove Porky by saying he's in the Capsule. Some characters are in a tight spot just like Isaac. Porky is just in a worse position.
Honestly, I don't feel people discard (remove) Porky in any legitimate way.
I think they just ignore him, because Earthbound already has a lot of characters / number of games, recency, release, sales, etc
 
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Cutie Gwen

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If I grew up I won't be ******** about who gets into the children's party game next.
You keep saying stuff like this and I have to ask, why do you see this stuff as a bad thing? Wouldn't that be better than throwing a fit because someone said "Isaac probably isn't happening, I'd love to be wrong though" and then making up **** like "He's seen as less likely as Goku and Shrek" despite literally nobody saying that? Honestly I think you would benefit the most from you calming down about this stuff
 

ArkSPiTFirE

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Looks like everyone's going to sleep just as I wake up!

I won't let it drag on, but I'm glad most people in the discussion can admit that Isaac has substantial hurdles in being a likely pick (at least right now), but can also recognise his own bubble of popularity. He's hard to stand out when there are other big bubbles in the proverbial bathwater, that is the gaming universe.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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Not that this changes your point but you picked a poor example considering Bethesda's parent company also owned id and they were for all intents and purposes a subsidiary of Bethesda even before they all got swallowed by Microsoft.
Is it a poor example though?

Microsoft also owns the company that owns Minecraft, yet we got Mojang added in the copyrights rather than having nothing because Microsoft was there.

Same for Joker. Atlus is owned by Sega, but we still got that company added along the copyrights list rather than nothing because Sega was already there.

It's a clear enough distinction that the devs feel compelled to point it out. So if we ever end up getting Doom Slayer, the company we'd see on the copyrights wouldn't be Microsoft or ZaniMax Media or even Bethesda, we'd see id Software.
 
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3BitSaurus

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Ehhhhhhhh, they've gotten a lot better in that regard as of late. Even in that late 2000s/early-to-mid 2010s period that has a reputation for apparently being the era in which SEGA made almost nothing but Sonic and Yakuza, they still made quite a lot of other games - the important distinction to make here is that they've recently gotten a lot better at making use of their legacy IP. Either way, I don't think it's really fair to brush all that off just because a couple specific franchises haven't come back yet - and this is coming from someone who would die for, say, Skies of Arcadia or Virtual-ON to get something new (in the latter's case, at least, something new that isn't a Japan-only collection or a weird crossover game)

I guess the core of my frustration here is really just how off a lot of people's perception of SEGA's library really is. Really rustles my jimmies seeing the amount of people that essentially boil their legacy down to just Sonic, the Atlus stuff, and maybe Puyo and/or Yakuza. Basically, if it's not talked about on the newcomer thread, it might as well not exist. Granted, there have been moments where I feel they've been given a somewhat fairer shake - SEGA discussion did use to be pretty varied before Eggman became a speculation darling, and Phantasy Star has finally been getting some much-deserved attention as of late - but it's still pretty irritating whenever someone pulls the "well uhh actually, SEGA don't really have a lot of noteworthy IP outside of Sonic" card. Even worse is when their examples of the "small few other noteworthy IP" are, like, Monkey Ball and Billy Hatcher. Like, jeez, man: I love the All-Stars games to death, and they do feature a lot of genuinely important IP, but if there's something I don't like about them, it's that they convinced a whole generation of people that Billy Hatcher is one of the great pillars of SEGA history.

...Then again, I'm also not a big fan of the people that hold up a handful of their really big IP as The Ones That Matter and kinda just...dismiss everything else.

And that kinda leads into, like, the core of the core of my frustration: there's two big perceptions of SEGA's non-Sonic output floating around, and they're both pretty wack tbh. I think an anecdote that, like, perfectly sums up what I'm talking about is when I found a Twitter post that went something like "the "oh right, SEGA make games other than Sonic" starter pack", and it showed, like, AiAi, Billy Hatcher, Beat and NiGHTS. And then there was a reply that went "well these are what I think of when I think of SEGA stuff other than Sonic" and it was, like, Yakuza, Persona 5, Sakura Wars 2019 and PSO2. And, like, goddamn, that was it. That was exactly my problem: there are two prevailing perceptions of SEGA's library at play in the larger sphere of the interwebz, and I don't agree with either of them! I feel like these are both very tunnelvision-y points of view in relation to their IP that only take from a specific point of reference and ignore a large part of their legacy. So much of, like, the important ** SEGA's done over the years isn't acknowledged by either side. They're both very flawed points of view IMO. The thing is, like, there's gotta be a middle ground here. It's true that the All-Stars games aren't the best indicator of what are the most important SEGA IP are, there's a lot of big stuff they leave out. But also, I feel like it's super disingenuous to take The Current Big Stuff and dismiss everything else as completely irrelevant, because SEGA's older output abso-***ing-lutely has a place in their history as well. Even then, most of the big older stuff is ignored by the other side too, so a huge part of their history just gets no credit either way. And that's where we get back to the matter of Smash spec because this * has rubbed off on SEGA discussion here! You can see this in the "uhh well actually they don't have a lot of big stuff anyway" claims: it's either the people that have the starting roster for Superstars Tennis as their entire frame of reference, or the people that act like anything that isn't, like, in their top 5-10 sales figures is Totally Irrelevant (TM). And they're both ignoring such a huge chunk of the company's legacy.

It's frustrating, to say the least. And I guess that's why PS music being played at the Tokyo Olympics is such a big W to me, because it's like the ultimate proof that yes, their other stuff does have a legacy.
Yeah, between SoR4, PSO2 and the Panzer Dragoon and Alex Kidd remakes, as well as VF6, Sega's doing pretty good on supporting different IPs right now. Thing is, it hasn't always been like that - even moreso when you count the series that took a while to grow big in the west.

To be clear, Sega is far from alone in this. Pretty much every big company does it, whether they don't market a game well, don't listen to people asking for rereleases/preservation or when they send a series to die via region-locks and bad spinoffs.

At the same time, I feel like that mindset is somewhat understandable - people are heavily influenced by whatever is recent, so in the eyes of a lot of people, if a series didn't get anything in the current console generation or at least the prior one, it's "irrelevant". Doesn't mean it's right, but I can see why that happens. Just gotta hope the IP ressurection streak remains strong.

Inb4

 

Cutie Gwen

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To be clear, Sega is far from alone in this. Pretty much every big company does it, whether they don't market a game well, don't listen to people asking for rereleases/preservation or when they send a series to die via region-locks and bad spinoffs.
Don't forget iffy rereleases, Capcom sent Darkstalkers to die by using a mediocre rerelease to gauge interest while Sega's also going "Hey buy this Virtua Fighter 5 port with garbage online in 2021 or we'll never make a VF6"
 

The Rhythm Theif

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Would love to have those... but what about


WALUIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII?

IT'S A-MEEEEE WA HA HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

View attachment 323236
Oh... What was... what was that- oh, oh, here it comes! No! I can't stop it!
 

Rie Sonomura

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To be fair, they do have a great treasure trove of IPs. It's just that a lot of the time they seem insistent on not doing anything with them, like a lot of companies, really. :4pacman:

Real talk tho, Billy Hatcher and Skies of Arcadia remakes when?





I'm a bit surprised by this, especially as Mario was literally featured in the opening. I still think we'll see something from Mario, Zelda or Pokémon in the final ceremony.



It's also missing Song of the Ancients from Nier and the main theme of Soul Calibur.
I would KILL for a SoA remake bro
 

Theguy123

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Real talk, what do you all want in the last trailer. What do want the setting to be like

do you want it to be a mystery till the character is revealed or do you want it to be obvious??

do you want a gigantic fight that brings the heroes together??

do you want a WOL carry on with darkhon getting destroyed??

do you want a sequel to kazuya or Sephiroth etc.

Just what do you want the last character trailer to be like.
 

GilTheGreat19

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but even then I think the positive or indifferent/neutral reactions would overpower the negative.
Here’s the wonderful thing, Zeldan

EVERY character is bound to be received with more positivity than negativity. Even Byleth, Fcol. Even though it’s not 100% accurate, the likes outnumber the dislikes on his official reveal trailer and Sakurai presents.

Also happy Saturday.
 

Perkilator

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Real talk, what do you all want in the last trailer. What do want the setting to be like

do you want it to be a mystery till the character is revealed or do you want it to be obvious??

do you want a gigantic fight that brings the heroes together??

do you want a WOL carry on with darkhon getting destroyed??

do you want a sequel to kazuya or Sephiroth etc.

Just what do you want the last character trailer to be like.
I just want it to go out with a BANG, more than anything.
 

Þe 1 → Way

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Real talk, what do you all want in the last trailer. What do you want the setting to be like?
I love the idea of Joker being put on trial and the reveal being Phoenix. Just sounds like such a nice way to wrap up DLC.

Also, seeing a big villain team up get interrupted by Pyramid Head would be sick. Probably a more mysterious reveal. It’d be especially good if after PH defeats the villains, the heros start applauding him only to get destroyed as well.
 

Merengue

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Honestly, I don't feel people discard (remove) Porky in any legitimate way.
I think they just ignore him, because Earthbound already has a lot of characters / number of games, recency, release, sales, etc
A lot of characters?
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Is there a possilibity the final character trailer reveal could have all the DLC characters involved? :ultpiranha::ultjoker::ulthero::ultbanjokazooie::ult_terry::ultbyleth::ultminmin:ultsteve::ultsephiroth::ultpyra:/:ultmythra::ultkazuya:

Food for thought.
Being they'd have to license each one for use for that trailer alone, since it's separate from the in-game factors, unlikely.

It'd be neat, though. I'd also like to see the trailers downloadable so you can view them in the video sections.
 

Michael the Spikester

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do you want it to be a mystery till the character is revealed or do you want it to be obvious??
I do like the idea of all the characters waiting for the final DLC character to appear whether from the shadows or emerging from an opening portal.

This is a character like Master Chief could easily fit into though chances are it probably isn't him. But its a fitting way for him to "Finish the fight" as he ten points his gun at Mario in honor.
 

SNEKeater

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I don't think having all the DLC characters in the final trailer would be that difficult. The only problem I could see is Square Enix because so far their characters have only appeared in one trailer, and that was with Sephiroth.

I'd personally like to see Joker and Terry in a CGI trailer to see how they would look. But I don't think the final character is going to get a CGI reveal tbh
 

Rie Sonomura

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Real talk, what do you all want in the last trailer. What do want the setting to be like

do you want it to be a mystery till the character is revealed or do you want it to be obvious??

do you want a gigantic fight that brings the heroes together??

do you want a WOL carry on with darkhon getting destroyed??

do you want a sequel to kazuya or Sephiroth etc.

Just what do you want the last character trailer to be like.
Should be a final battle against both Galeem AND Dharkon. Maybe have the final fighter go against fake fighters created by both (you know, the full body effect)

also here’s my timeline for the WoL themed trailers:

Bad Ending A (Galeem defeated first, Dharkon reigns supreme after sealing Galeem away and covers the world in darkness, Mario is the first to be corrupted, everyone else follows except Link who manages to hold on) -> Hero Trailer -> time travel/parallel universe shenanigans ensue -> Bad Ending B (Dharkon defeated first, Galeem vaporizes Dharkon then proceeds to do the same to everyone) -> DIVERGENCE POINT: Sephiroth kills Galeem so that can’t happen but he attacks everyone -> reset timeline AGAIN I GUESS IDK -> CP11 (takes down both Galeem AND Dharkon at the same time, True Ending)
 

Michael the Spikester

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But man if Phoenix Wright is the final character. It's only fitting to have it being Joker standing trial for the Smash invitation he stole and then revealing Phoenix Wright who is trying to defend him.

DLC began with Joker, ends with Phoenix Wright. So poetic.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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For a Brian trailer, I like the idea of him defending other heroes against the various big bads(of their respective series. Ganondorf, etc.), using one of his base spells to send them flying(Fire Ball, Rock, Water Pillar, and... it's kind of hard to have a good Wind option that can look remotely badass XD). Fighting against armies is something he does in canon, so... lots of villains isn't an issue for him. He's one against the world of enemies, after all.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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A lot of characters?
In comparison to its series's size. (I don't personally vibe with this argument, but that's the argument.)

Really, we're not getting Porky unless we're getting something Earthbound in the fall, and even then it can't just be added to Nintendo Switch's Online Service; it has to warrant a physical copy, probably can't get a timed release, and probably has to involve Mother 3. That's enough for pretty much everyone to not consider him a possible candidate so all you're left with is that he's cool. He is indeed cool, but that does diddly squat in probability discussions. Porky, like a few others discussed here (Amaterasu for example) can pretty much only participate in "what if?" discussions because their chances are near 0.
 

kylexv

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Just because I feel like it, here is a list of every Smash character by their debut year (Japanese release dates are used):

  • 1980: :ultgnw::ultpacman:
  • 1981: :ultmario::ultdk:
  • 1983: :ultluigi::ultlittlemac:
  • 1984: :ultduckhunt:
  • 1985: :ulticeclimbers::ultrob::ultpeach::ultbowser::ultpiranha:
  • 1986: :ultlink::ultzelda::ultsamus::ultridley::ultsimon::ultpit::ultpalutena:
  • 1987: :ultsnake::ultryu::ultken::ultmegaman:
  • 1988: :ulthero3:
  • 1989: :ultdaisy:
  • 1990: :ultmarth::ultdoc::ultyoshi::ultfalcon:
  • 1991: :ultsonic::ult_terry:
  • 1992: :ultkirby::ultkingdedede::ultwario:
  • 1993: :ultfox::ultfalco::ultmetaknight::ultrichter:
  • 1994: :ultness::ultdiddy::ultkrool::ultkazuya:
  • 1996: :ultpikachu::ultjigglypuff::ultmewtwo::ultpokemontrainer:
  • 1997: :ultcloud::ultsephiroth::ultwolf:
  • 1998: :ultsheik::ultyounglink::ultganondorf::ultbanjokazooie:
  • 1999: :ultpichu:
  • 2001: :ultvillager::ultolimar:
  • 2002: :ultroy::ultbowserjr::ulttoonlink:
  • 2004: :ultzss:
  • 2005: :ultike::ultdarksamus:
  • 2006: :ultlucas::ultlucario:
  • 2007: :ultrosalina::ultwiifittrainer:
  • 2009: :ultbayonetta:
  • 2010: :ultshulk:
  • 2011: :ultsteve:
  • 2012: :ultdarkpit::ultrobin::ultchrom::ultlucina::ultisabelle:
  • 2013: :ultgreninja:
  • 2015: :ultinkling::ultcorrin:
  • 2016: :ultjoker::ultincineroar:
  • 2017: :ultminmin:ultpyra:
  • 2019: :ultbyleth:
Unrepresented Years:
  • 1982
  • 1995 (Earthbound's North American release and Tekken's International release were in this year)
  • 2000 (Pokemon Gold and Silver's North American and Australian releases were in this year)
  • 2003 (The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker's International release was in this year)
  • 2008 (Wii Fit's International release was in this year)
  • 2014 (Minecraft's Alex, one of Steve's alternate costumes, made her debut in Minecraft in 2014)
  • 2018
 
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FreeFox

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Real talk, what do you all want in the last trailer. What do want the setting to be like

do you want it to be a mystery till the character is revealed or do you want it to be obvious??

do you want a gigantic fight that brings the heroes together??

do you want a WOL carry on with darkhon getting destroyed??

do you want a sequel to kazuya or Sephiroth etc.

Just what do you want the last character trailer to be like.
I think something humorous would be kind of neat though a last heroes standing moment would also be a fine conclusion.
 

chocolatejr9

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Just because I feel like it, here is a list of every Smash character by their debut year (Japanese release dates are used):

  • 1980: :ultgnw::ultpacman:
  • 1981: :ultmario::ultdk:
  • 1983: :ultluigi::ultlittlemac:
  • 1984: :ultduckhunt:
  • 1985: :ulticeclimbers::ultrob::ultpeach::ultbowser::ultpiranha:
  • 1986: :ultlink::ultzelda::ultsamus::ultridley::ultsimon::ultpit::ultpalutena:
  • 1987: :ultsnake::ultryu::ultken::ultmegaman:
  • 1988: :ulthero3:
  • 1989: :ultdaisy:
  • 1990: :ultmarth::ultdoc::ultyoshi::ultfalcon:
  • 1991: :ultsonic::ult_terry:
  • 1992: :ultkirby::ultkingdedede::ultwario:
  • 1993: :ultfox::ultfalco::ultmetaknight::ultrichter:
  • 1994: :ultness::ultdiddy::ultkrool::ultkazuya:
  • 1996: :ultpikachu::ultjigglypuff::ultmewtwo::ultpokemontrainer:
  • 1997: :ultcloud::ultsephiroth::ultwolf:
  • 1998: :ultsheik::ultyounglink::ultganondorf::ultbanjokazooie:
  • 1999: :ultpichu:
  • 2001: :ultvillager::ultolimar:
  • 2002: :ultroy::ultbowserjr::ulttoonlink:
  • 2004: :ultzss:
  • 2005: :ultike::ultdarksamus:
  • 2006: :ultlucas::ultlucario:
  • 2007: :ultrosalina::ultwiifittrainer:
  • 2009: :ultbayonetta:
  • 2010: :ultshulk:
  • 2011: :ultsteve:
  • 2012: :ultdarkpit::ultrobin::ultchrom::ultlucina::ultisabelle:
  • 2013: :ultgreninja:
  • 2015: :ultinkling::ultcorrin:
  • 2016: :ultjoker::ultincineroar:
  • 2017: :ultminmin:ultpyra:
  • 2019: :ultbyleth:
Unrepresented Years:
  • 1982
  • 1995 (Earthbound's North American release and Tekken's International release were in this year)
  • 2000 (Pokemon Gold and Silver's North American and Australian releases were in this year)
  • 2003 (The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker's International release was in this year)
  • 2008 (Wii Fit's International release was in this year)
  • 2014 (Minecraft's Alex, one of Steve's alternate costumes, made her debut in Minecraft in 2014)
  • 2018
I guess I'll ask what characters debuted in 1982, 1995, 2000, 2003, 2008, 2014, and 2018 that would be good for Smash?
 

Hydreigonfan01

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Honestly, I think we could combine the idea of having all the characters together with the final fight in WOL with both Galeem and Dharkon. Imagine a trailer featuring every playable character in the series, verses Galeem and Dharkon, Dracula, Marx, Ganon, Giga Bowser, Rathalos, Galleom and Galeem and Dharkon's clones of the playable fighters.
 

NonSpecificGuy

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I guess I'll ask what characters debuted in 1982, 1995, 2000, 2003, 2008, 2014, and 2018 that would be good for Smash?
1982: Dig-dug or Q*bert
1995: Rayman
2000: Joanna Dark from Perfect Dark
2003: Jade from Beyond Good & Evil
2008: Isaac Clarke from Dead Space
2014: Aiden Pierce from Watch Dogs
2018: Any of the Octopath Traveler characters

Not even gonna lie that’s a pretty solid ass line up.
 
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Rie Sonomura

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Honestly, I think we could combine the idea of having all the characters together with the final fight in WOL with both Galeem and Dharkon. Imagine a trailer featuring every playable character in the series, verses Galeem and Dharkon, Dracula, Marx, Ganon, Giga Bowser, Rathalos, Galleom and Galeem and Dharkon's clones of the playable fighters.
AND INCLUDE CLONES OF THE DLC TOO.

my headcanons for which alignments the clones of the DLC will have

Galeem clones: Hero, Banjo, Byleth, Min Min, Sephiroth, Pyra, Mythra
Dharkon clones: Piranha Plant, Joker, Terry, Steve, Alex, Kazuya, maybe CP11 especially if CP11 is Octoling like I’m hoping
 
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