• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

Status
Not open for further replies.

GilTheGreat19

Smash Master
Joined
May 19, 2021
Messages
3,377
I guess I'll ask what characters debuted in 1982, 1995, 2000, 2003, 2008, 2014, and 2018 that would be good for Smash?
I gotchu fam
I'll give series tho, instead of names

1982 - Dig Dug, Pitfall Harry, and Q*bert
1995 - Chrono Trigger, Rayman, Warcraft II
2000 - Diablo II, Counter Strike, Perfect Dark, Deus Ex, Hitman: Codename 47, and Paper Mario
2003 - Call of Duty, Prince of Persia: Sands of Time, Beyond Good & Evil, Jax II, Ratchet & Clank: Going Commando
2008 - GTA IV, Fallout 3, Dead Space, LittleBigPlanet, and God of War: Chains of Olympus
2014 - Destiny, Dark Souls II, Far Cry 4, and Assassin's Creed Unity
2018 - Red Dead Redemption 2, God of War 2018, Assassin's Creed Odyssey, and Celeste
 
Last edited:

SMAASH! Puppy

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 13, 2015
Messages
13,446
Location
Snake Man's stage from Metal Blade Solid
Honestly, I think we could combine the idea of having all the characters together with the final fight in WOL with both Galeem and Dharkon. Imagine a trailer featuring every playable character in the series, verses Galeem and Dharkon, Dracula, Marx, Ganon, Giga Bowser, Rathalos, Galleom and Galeem and Dharkon's clones of the playable fighters.
"On your left."
 

Rie Sonomura

fly octo fly
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
19,720
NNID
RieSonomura
Switch FC
SW-4976-7649-4666
I guess I'll ask what characters debuted in 1982, 1995, 2000, 2003, 2008, 2014, and 2018 that would be good for Smash?
1982 - idk
1995 - idk
2000 - idk
2003 - KOS-MOS (Xenosaga was released in the US in 2003)
2008 - Neku (TWEWY western release year)
2014 - uhhhhhhhHHHHHH
2018 - Octoling (Specifically the Splatoon 2 Octo Expansion version)
 

Ramen Tengoku

Meiniac
Joined
Sep 7, 2018
Messages
15,719
Location
Somewhere
Switch FC
SW-6056-3633-7710
I guess I'll ask what characters debuted in 1982, 1995, 2000, 2003, 2008, 2014, and 2018 that would be good for Smash?
1982 Ms. Pac-Man
1995 Dixie Kong
2000 Beat (Jet Set Radio
2003 Jade (Beyond Good and Evil)
2008 Chorus Kids (Rhythm Heaven)
2014 Shovel Knight
2018 Imposter (Among Us) :yeahboi:
 
Last edited:

Schnee117

Too Majestic for Gender
Joined
Aug 21, 2014
Messages
19,802
Location
Rollbackia
Switch FC
SW-6660-1506-8804
I guess I'll ask what characters debuted in 1982, 1995, 2000, 2003, 2008, 2014, and 2018 that would be good for Smash?
1982 - Dig Dug
1995 - Dixie Kong, Morrigan, Kyo Kusanagi, Iori
2000 - Joanna Dark, Skull Kid, JC Denton, Waluigi, Agent 47
2003 - Soma Cruz, Julius Belmont, Leon Belmont, Lyn, Hector, Fawful, Viewtiful Joe, Darth Revan
2008 - Niko Bellic, Nero (DMC), Yu Narukami, Yuri Lowell, Shanoa, Isaac Clark, Skorge
2014 - Shovel Knight, Bearer of the Curse, Zavala, Kan-Ra, Ramlethal, Elphelt, Leo Whitefang, Shay Cormac
2018 - Arthur Morgan, Miriam, Kassandra/Alexios, Azwel, Groh, Lulu Baran, Phym, Takayuki Yagami, Android 21
 
Last edited:

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

Flap and Swish~
Premium
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
34,392
Location
Cull Hazard
NNID
Irene4
3DS FC
1203-9265-8784
Switch FC
SW-7567-8572-3791
Just because I feel like it, here is a list of every Smash character by their debut year (Japanese release dates are used):

  • 1980: :ultgnw::ultpacman:
  • 1981: :ultmario::ultdk:
  • 1983: :ultluigi::ultlittlemac:
  • 1984: :ultduckhunt:
  • 1985: :ulticeclimbers::ultrob::ultpeach::ultbowser::ultpiranha:
  • 1986: :ultlink::ultzelda::ultsamus::ultridley::ultsimon::ultpit::ultpalutena:
  • 1987: :ultsnake::ultryu::ultken::ultmegaman:
  • 1988: :ulthero3:
  • 1989: :ultdaisy:
  • 1990: :ultmarth::ultdoc::ultyoshi::ultfalcon:
  • 1991: :ultsonic::ult_terry:
  • 1992: :ultkirby::ultkingdedede::ultwario:
  • 1993: :ultfox::ultfalco::ultmetaknight::ultrichter:
  • 1994: :ultness::ultdiddy::ultkrool::ultkazuya:
  • 1996: :ultpikachu::ultjigglypuff::ultmewtwo::ultpokemontrainer:
  • 1997: :ultcloud::ultsephiroth::ultwolf:
  • 1998: :ultsheik::ultyounglink::ultganondorf::ultbanjokazooie:
  • 1999: :ultpichu:
  • 2001: :ultvillager::ultolimar:
  • 2002: :ultroy::ultbowserjr::ulttoonlink:
  • 2004: :ultzss:
  • 2005: :ultike::ultdarksamus:
  • 2006: :ultlucas::ultlucario:
  • 2007: :ultrosalina::ultwiifittrainer:
  • 2009: :ultbayonetta:
  • 2010: :ultshulk:
  • 2011: :ultsteve:
  • 2012: :ultdarkpit::ultrobin::ultchrom::ultlucina::ultisabelle:
  • 2013: :ultgreninja:
  • 2015: :ultinkling::ultcorrin:
  • 2016: :ultjoker::ultincineroar:
  • 2017: :ultminmin:ultpyra:
  • 2019: :ultbyleth:
Unrepresented Years:
  • 1982
  • 1995 (Earthbound's North American release and Tekken's International release were in this year)
  • 2000 (Pokemon Gold and Silver's North American and Australian releases were in this year)
  • 2003 (The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker's International release was in this year)
  • 2008 (Wii Fit's International release was in this year)
  • 2014 (Minecraft's Alex, one of Steve's alternate costumes, made her debut in Minecraft in 2014)
  • 2018
Hero's actual debut(as it's a Class, not a specific character) is officially in 1989, before Daisy and after MegaMan. Mob Smash was updated to hard reflect this. It doesn't matter what Hero alt would be used either, since the Class is the core playable concept, not just the 4 alts. He was before Byleth, being Luminary's debut originally. ...So yeah, they really don't try to treat Erdrick that specially, despite being clearly a super important Hero in canon, etc. It's weird, yet... there you go.

Besides that, if you're not using the proper debut, you should be using Luminary's debut of 2017, which more accurately reflects how Smash did it. In both cases, Erdrick was never treated as nearly as important, only getting a very tiny amount of love(a bit of extra notes in the Trailer and sometimes being the default for a spirit event instead of Luminary). It's even worse when Kirby specifically is copying Luminary's special equipment based upon Edwin(who at least is an expy of Erdrick, but that doesn't mean much in Smash's context).

I get people like Erdrick and try to treat him as special cause he's the first Hero alt canonically in Smash timewise, but the reality is? Smash doesn't treat him any more special than "slightly above Eight and Four". It's pretty much done as Luminary > Erdrick > Four/Eight in terms of importance in how they're represented. And that's not even counting how DQIII has only Erdrick as a Spirit. And the only minion battle chooses Luminary as the default(to no surprise. He is the core Hero in Smash chosen).

Even for Spirits, only Dragon Quest 1 and Dragon Quest 11 have multiple unique spirits. Otherwise, 4 has the current Hero and King Slime. Dragon Quest 3 doesn't even get its own Spirit. The representation is spread around a lot of places, but 3 definitely isn't treated as "a big deal" either way. When only 1 and 11 are treated bigger than the rest(logically the debut game and the core game being represented), it gets kind of silly to pretend Erdrick was given anything special. He... is surprisingly given way less than he deserves. But I doubt that's cause Sakurai was being "fair". He can only do so much due to the IP owners, etc. He was likely forced to give 11 and 1 the most content(which for obvious reasons is understandable). It is fair? No. But it's just what it is.
 

Adrianette Bromide

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 22, 2020
Messages
1,129
Location
Beeland Capital
Just because I feel like it, here is a list of every Smash character by their debut year (Japanese release dates are used):

  • 1980: :ultgnw::ultpacman:
  • 1981: :ultmario::ultdk:
  • 1983: :ultluigi::ultlittlemac:
  • 1984: :ultduckhunt:
  • 1985: :ulticeclimbers::ultrob::ultpeach::ultbowser::ultpiranha:
  • 1986: :ultlink::ultzelda::ultsamus::ultridley::ultsimon::ultpit::ultpalutena:
  • 1987: :ultsnake::ultryu::ultken::ultmegaman:
  • 1988: :ulthero3:
  • 1989: :ultdaisy:
  • 1990: :ultmarth::ultdoc::ultyoshi::ultfalcon:
  • 1991: :ultsonic::ult_terry:
  • 1992: :ultkirby::ultkingdedede::ultwario:
  • 1993: :ultfox::ultfalco::ultmetaknight::ultrichter:
  • 1994: :ultness::ultdiddy::ultkrool::ultkazuya:
  • 1996: :ultpikachu::ultjigglypuff::ultmewtwo::ultpokemontrainer:
  • 1997: :ultcloud::ultsephiroth::ultwolf:
  • 1998: :ultsheik::ultyounglink::ultganondorf::ultbanjokazooie:
  • 1999: :ultpichu:
  • 2001: :ultvillager::ultolimar:
  • 2002: :ultroy::ultbowserjr::ulttoonlink:
  • 2004: :ultzss:
  • 2005: :ultike::ultdarksamus:
  • 2006: :ultlucas::ultlucario:
  • 2007: :ultrosalina::ultwiifittrainer:
  • 2009: :ultbayonetta:
  • 2010: :ultshulk:
  • 2011: :ultsteve:
  • 2012: :ultdarkpit::ultrobin::ultchrom::ultlucina::ultisabelle:
  • 2013: :ultgreninja:
  • 2015: :ultinkling::ultcorrin:
  • 2016: :ultjoker::ultincineroar:
  • 2017: :ultminmin:ultpyra:
  • 2019: :ultbyleth:
Unrepresented Years:
  • 1982
  • 1995 (Earthbound's North American release and Tekken's International release were in this year)
  • 2000 (Pokemon Gold and Silver's North American and Australian releases were in this year)
  • 2003 (The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker's International release was in this year)
  • 2008 (Wii Fit's International release was in this year)
  • 2014 (Minecraft's Alex, one of Steve's alternate costumes, made her debut in Minecraft in 2014)
  • 2018
Cool list, very cool!
 

ArkSPiTFirE

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 18, 2018
Messages
235
Location
United Kingdom
Real talk, what do you all want in the last trailer. What do want the setting to be like

do you want it to be a mystery till the character is revealed or do you want it to be obvious??

do you want a gigantic fight that brings the heroes together??

do you want a WOL carry on with darkhon getting destroyed??

do you want a sequel to kazuya or Sephiroth etc.

Just what do you want the last character trailer to be like.
Gimme Link, Marth and Shulk fighting a Rathalos.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 13, 2015
Messages
13,446
Location
Snake Man's stage from Metal Blade Solid
If they added Chibi-Robo, I feel like they'd give him a power management mechanic with him starting at 100% battery life, and that number ticking down over time. His attributes and/or frame data would be much faster from 100%-66%, more normal in from 65%-33%, and pretty slow from 32%-1%. At 0%, he doesn't die 'cuz that would be silly, but he becomes so sluggish as to basically be non-functional. In order to prevent this, his Down or Shield Special would be to recharge with a portable charger provided by Telly.

He could also have electrical attacks (probably Smash Attacks, and a Special Move or two) that are quite powerful, but drain power to use.
 

Slime Master

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 16, 2019
Messages
560
Location
Boingburg, SL
Hero's actual debut(as it's a Class, not a specific character) is officially in 1989, before Daisy and after MegaMan. Mob Smash was updated to hard reflect this. It doesn't matter what Hero alt would be used either, since the Class is the core playable concept, not just the 4 alts. He was before Byleth, being Luminary's debut originally. ...So yeah, they really don't try to treat Erdrick that specially, despite being clearly a super important Hero in canon, etc. It's weird, yet... there you go.

Besides that, if you're not using the proper debut, you should be using Luminary's debut of 2017, which more accurately reflects how Smash did it. In both cases, Erdrick was never treated as nearly as important, only getting a very tiny amount of love(a bit of extra notes in the Trailer and sometimes being the default for a spirit event instead of Luminary). It's even worse when Kirby specifically is copying Luminary's special equipment based upon Edwin(who at least is an expy of Erdrick, but that doesn't mean much in Smash's context).

I get people like Erdrick and try to treat him as special cause he's the first Hero alt canonically in Smash timewise, but the reality is? Smash doesn't treat him any more special than "slightly above Eight and Four". It's pretty much done as Luminary > Erdrick > Four/Eight in terms of importance in how they're represented. And that's not even counting how DQIII has only Erdrick as a Spirit. And the only minion battle chooses Luminary as the default(to no surprise. He is the core Hero in Smash chosen).

Even for Spirits, only Dragon Quest 1 and Dragon Quest 11 have multiple unique spirits. Otherwise, 4 has the current Hero and King Slime. Dragon Quest 3 doesn't even get its own Spirit. The representation is spread around a lot of places, but 3 definitely isn't treated as "a big deal" either way. When only 1 and 11 are treated bigger than the rest(logically the debut game and the core game being represented), it gets kind of silly to pretend Erdrick was given anything special. He... is surprisingly given way less than he deserves. But I doubt that's cause Sakurai was being "fair". He can only do so much due to the IP owners, etc. He was likely forced to give 11 and 1 the most content(which for obvious reasons is understandable). It is fair? No. But it's just what it is.
These are all nitpicks since they don't retract from your actual point, but just for posterity: classes aren't a thing in DQ4, 8, or 11 so calling Hero a representation of the class isn't really accurate. All those heroes have traits that make them clearly the hero class, but so does DQ1's; I'd say he's more a representation of DQ PCs than the class. I also wouldn't assign the monster spirits to games since they're all just really popular recurring monsters. Obviously this means DQ3 still doesn't have more spirits than the others, I just don't want people to start thinking about it that way.
 

Merengue

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 23, 2021
Messages
357
Honestly, I think we could combine the idea of having all the characters together with the final fight in WOL with both Galeem and Dharkon. Imagine a trailer featuring every playable character in the series, verses Galeem and Dharkon, Dracula, Marx, Ganon, Giga Bowser, Rathalos, Galleom and Galeem and Dharkon's clones of the playable fighters.
I can feel like this trailer fits perfectly for a character who was previously a boss in the Smash Games that became a playable character.
 

FreeFox

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 26, 2018
Messages
1,510
AND INCLUDE CLONES OF THE DLC TOO.

my headcanons for which alignments the clones of the DLC will have

Galeem clones: Hero, Banjo, Byleth, Min Min, Sephiroth, Pyra, Mythra
Dharkon clones: Piranha Plant, Joker, Terry, Steve, Alex, Kazuya, maybe CP11 especially if CP11 is Octoling like I’m hoping
Personally I would switch Terry and Sephiroth´s places but besides that, I think its pretty on point.

I can feel like this trailer fits perfectly for a character who was previously a boss in the Smash Games that became a playable character.
I can see it. Pokey in the middle of the confrontation full of indecision and then

"Pokey switches sides"

Whici is actually appropiate for the character.
 
Last edited:

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

Flap and Swish~
Premium
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
34,392
Location
Cull Hazard
NNID
Irene4
3DS FC
1203-9265-8784
Switch FC
SW-7567-8572-3791
These are all nitpicks since they don't retract from your actual point, but just for posterity: classes aren't a thing in DQ4, 8, or 11 so calling Hero a representation of the class isn't really accurate. All those heroes have traits that make them clearly the hero class, but so does DQ1's; I'd say he's more a representation of DQ PCs than the class. I also wouldn't assign the monster spirits to games since they're all just really popular recurring monsters. Obviously this means DQ3 still doesn't have more spirits than the others, I just don't want people to start thinking about it that way.
It's hard to say why. Erdrick is a member of the actual Hero Class. However, it's probably because Hero is both a Class and referring to the story's role for the rest, but Luminary is also the default for promotional reasons(now why Luminary and XI got significantly more content is another story. The Stage, Kirby being based upon Luminary, and him being the default alt all make sense. But the rest is kind of sad. Erdrick is a big deal and is not treated as such. He at best was chosen for a spirit event and took over the trailer very clearly. Though the trailers are outsourced too, so we can't actually determine how much Sakurai or others could've influenced the choices behind stuff like that very well. DQ3 being biggest in Japan was probably all there is to it).

The original Protagonist is also a Mii costume(in practice), which makes it ironic that he's not playable despite Mob Smash saying the debut of the Hero Class is from his game.

Also, the Monster Spirits specifically use their designs from the game they debuted in, so they're meant to represent that game specifically. That's why they're listed "from that game". I'm not saying it's the best way to do it. They didn't even have to specify the game, but the series, if they wanted. However, they went with them being "a member of this game", so they clearly thought representing a specific game mattered. That said, this is probably because they were throwing a bunch of Games on the Switch and wanted to have more than one game very clearly referenced. That, and the Mii Costumes did the same thing. Including the Class-based costumes.

I get what you're saying, but Smash actually does try to do things differently. Hero is treated more like a Generic Class than it really should be, and Monsters are treated like a specific game matters when it really doesn't need to. Smash is strange like that, honestly. Even Pokemon Trainer, who should really be more about the character Red(and later Leaf), was always treated like just another Generic Trainer for some reason. This also happened with lots of Pokemon descriptions too, often describing what their race does, ignoring any very special members of it(Lucario, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, and Pikachu all being heavily based on the anime in mannerisms and moves, though not every move. Jigglypuff is notable in that it's extremely similar to the anime's abilities while still being a clone of Kirby, somehow working perfectly in conjunction with both concepts). Greninja is the first one to directly be based upon a much more specific member in Ultimate(using the Ash Greninja design in the Final Smash. I think the Kunai was among every Greninja in the anime, so that doesn't really count). But you get the idea. Smash doesn't follow some type of straight character style, no matter what logic should tell you.
 

Rie Sonomura

fly octo fly
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
19,720
NNID
RieSonomura
Switch FC
SW-4976-7649-4666
Personally I would switch Terry and Sephiroth´s places but besides that, I think its pretty on point.


I can see it. Pokey in the middle of the confrontation full of indecision and then

"Pokey switches sides"

Whici is actually appropiate for the character.
Cloud’s found in the Dark Realm and we needed another villain on the Light Side so I put Sephiroth on Galeem’s side

in hindsight maybe I shoulda also put Hero’s clones on Dharkon’s side, to have an ironic situation where both Square Enix heroes are on Dharkon’s side but their villain is on Galeem’s side
 
Last edited:

Slime Master

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 16, 2019
Messages
560
Location
Boingburg, SL
It's hard to say why. Erdrick is a member of the actual Hero Class. However, it's probably because Hero is both a Class and referring to the story's role for the rest, but Luminary is also the default for promotional reasons(now why Luminary and XI got significantly more content is another story. The Stage, Kirby being based upon Luminary, and him being the default alt all make sense. But the rest is kind of sad. Erdrick is a big deal and is not treated as such. He at best was chosen for a spirit event and took over the trailer very clearly. Though the trailers are outsourced too, so we can't actually determine how much Sakurai or others could've influenced the choices behind stuff like that very well. DQ3 being biggest in Japan was probably all there is to it).

The original Protagonist is also a Mii costume(in practice), which makes it ironic that he's not playable despite Mob Smash saying the debut of the Hero Class is from his game.

Also, the Monster Spirits specifically use their designs from the game they debuted in, so they're meant to represent that game specifically. That's why they're listed "from that game". I'm not saying it's the best way to do it. They didn't even have to specify the game, but the series, if they wanted. However, they went with them being "a member of this game", so they clearly thought representing a specific game mattered. That said, this is probably because they were throwing a bunch of Games on the Switch and wanted to have more than one game very clearly referenced. That, and the Mii Costumes did the same thing. Including the Class-based costumes.

I get what you're saying, but Smash actually does try to do things differently. Hero is treated more like a Generic Class than it really should be, and Monsters are treated like a specific game matters when it really doesn't need to. Smash is strange like that, honestly. Even Pokemon Trainer, who should really be more about the character Red(and later Leaf), was always treated like just another Generic Trainer for some reason. This also happened with lots of Pokemon descriptions too, often describing what their race does, ignoring any very special members of it(Lucario, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, and Pikachu all being heavily based on the anime in mannerisms and moves, though not every move. Jigglypuff is notable in that it's extremely similar to the anime's abilities while still being a clone of Kirby, somehow working perfectly in conjunction with both concepts). Greninja is the first one to directly be based upon a much more specific member in Ultimate(using the Ash Greninja design in the Final Smash. I think the Kunai was among every Greninja in the anime, so that doesn't really count). But you get the idea. Smash doesn't follow some type of straight character style, no matter what logic should tell you.
Miscommunication there on my part, PCs and the hero class are the same thing (except in DQ2), I think that's also the correct way to handle this.

As for the monsters, I don't see why using the original art matters? Those designs haven't changed, picking the first official art of them is just as valid as picking the redone art; the latter is never really any less tied to an individual game anyway. It's just an arbitrary decision that has no significant meaning bar maybe "this series has a lot of history"
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

Flap and Swish~
Premium
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
34,392
Location
Cull Hazard
NNID
Irene4
3DS FC
1203-9265-8784
Switch FC
SW-7567-8572-3791
Miscommunication there on my part, PCs and the hero class are the same thing (except in DQ2), I think that's also the correct way to handle this.

As for the monsters, I don't see why using the original art matters? Those designs haven't changed, picking the first official art of them is just as valid as picking the redone art; the latter is never really any less tied to an individual game anyway. It's just an arbitrary decision that has no significant meaning bar maybe "this series has a lot of history"
As I said, they list them from "this game", being the debut. Using the same artwork from that game just means... they represent that game even more. And then we have a lot of games among those listed released for the Switch? That removes the arbitrary part. It's just a decision that makes it easy to advertise the games, making those "specifics" useful. Also, keep in mind a lot of Spirits specify what actual game(s) they're from, being the debut. Being tons of spirits have artwork from other games to represent a different version of the same person, they do actually try to represent specific games quite consistently. It's just rare when the specifications do lead to something(in this case, DQ's is an easy advertisement). A lot of games didn't suddenly get re-releases. So while they're meaningful, it's probably just a coincidence. So basically in hindsight they make a lot more sense than possibly intended. However, you do miss a point being made here; if they're using artwork from a specific game, it just means that they're representing a specific game more than the whole series. It doesn't mean it's gotta have an impact. It just means they represent one game more than others and nothing more. Maybe it was important(I note the advertisement bit), maybe it wasn't.

They do this all the time, and sometimes even English translations makes errors(like Young Link's Trophy incorrectly stating he's from Zelda 1 when he's specifically the OOT/MM character alone. Whereas Link was meant to be a composite from every game, at least at first).
 

pupNapoleon

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 24, 2014
Messages
8,952
Location
Miami, NYC
NNID
NapoleonPlays
3DS FC
5129-1683-5306
Switch FC
SW 3124 9647 8311
Imagine arguing over fictional characters

No but for real y’all, please don’t let your bias cloud your judgment or respect towards others…
Religous conversations come to mind...

This is already generous in making two big assumptions - that one, we'd even get a fan-favourite non-recent first-party as DLC, which doesn't seem to be a category they want to address in this stage of additions, and two, that ATs are on the table.

We're just acting like those two big hurdles aren't even part of the picture, because we have to presume they won't be to even get this far in the debate. That's another reason why this outcome is mired with potential hangups.
You've made a lot of good points throughout.
I don't personally think that being an AT is any kind of hurdle- I just don't think there are many options of ATs who even would be characters. There are only a handful- Waluigi, Shadow, Isaac. I'd have said Bomberman, but I think that his Mii Costume is beyond damning. And...that actually may be it.

Real talk, what do you all want in the last trailer. What do want the setting to be like

do you want it to be a mystery till the character is revealed or do you want it to be obvious??

do you want a gigantic fight that brings the heroes together??

do you want a WOL carry on with darkhon getting destroyed??

do you want a sequel to kazuya or Sephiroth etc.

Just what do you want the last character trailer to be like.
I want the return of the giant flaming Smash ball.
 
Last edited:

pupNapoleon

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 24, 2014
Messages
8,952
Location
Miami, NYC
NNID
NapoleonPlays
3DS FC
5129-1683-5306
Switch FC
SW 3124 9647 8311
A lot of characters?
Two is a lot of characters compared to the factors I listed for Earthbound- recency, limited release, sales, number of games, etc.
I really cannot see a series that has three games deserving three characters. Not Earthbound, not Kid Icarus, not any.

Being they'd have to license each one for use for that trailer alone, since it's separate from the in-game factors, unlikely.

It'd be neat, though. I'd also like to see the trailers downloadable so you can view them in the video sections.
We don't actually know how often they would have to be relicensed. It depends on what was agreed upon in the first place.
This is a common comment I see on a 'Smash Ultimate Deluxe' version, that all the characters would have to be renegotiated. This is not inherently true. The initial licensing could have encompassed more than a single game, and there is no way for us to know. In fact, I am lead in the direction that any character added in the Sm4sh game- or at least, for sure, the Sm4sh DLC, was licensed not just for those games, but with Ultimate in mind.
 

pupNapoleon

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 24, 2014
Messages
8,952
Location
Miami, NYC
NNID
NapoleonPlays
3DS FC
5129-1683-5306
Switch FC
SW 3124 9647 8311
I gotchu fam
I'll give series tho, instead of names

1982 - Dig Dug, Pitfall Harry, and Q*bert
1995 - Chrono Trigger, Rayman, Warcraft II
2000 - Diablo II, Counter Strike, Perfect Dark, Deus Ex, Hitman: Codename 47, and Paper Mario
2003 - Call of Duty, Prince of Persia: Sands of Time, Beyond Good & Evil, Jax II, Ratchet & Clank: Going Commando
2008 - GTA IV, Fallout 3, Dead Space, LittleBigPlanet, and God of War: Chains of Olympus
2014 - Destiny, Dark Souls II, Far Cry 4, and Assassin's Creed Unity
2018 - Red Dead Redemption 2, God of War 2018, Assassin's Creed Odyssey, and Celeste
You didn't give series, you gave specific titles, which seems less fitting. For example, a God of War character... by all accounts... should be Kratos. But Kratos released in his debut game, which came out in 2005- the 2008 moniker is inconsequential.
 

Slime Master

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 16, 2019
Messages
560
Location
Boingburg, SL
As I said, they list them from "this game", being the debut. Using the same artwork from that game just means... they represent that game even more. And then we have a lot of games among those listed released for the Switch? That removes the arbitrary part. It's just a decision that makes it easy to advertise the games, making those "specifics" useful. Also, keep in mind a lot of Spirits specify what actual game(s) they're from, being the debut. Being tons of spirits have artwork from other games to represent a different version of the same person, they do actually try to represent specific games quite consistently. It's just rare when the specifications do lead to something(in this case, DQ's is an easy advertisement). A lot of games didn't suddenly get re-releases. So while they're meaningful, it's probably just a coincidence. So basically in hindsight they make a lot more sense than possibly intended. However, you do miss a point being made here; if they're using artwork from a specific game, it just means that they're representing a specific game more than the whole series. It doesn't mean it's gotta have an impact. It just means they represent one game more than others and nothing more. Maybe it was important(I note the advertisement bit), maybe it wasn't.

They do this all the time, and sometimes even English translations makes errors(like Young Link's Trophy incorrectly stating he's from Zelda 1 when he's specifically the OOT/MM character alone. Whereas Link was meant to be a composite from every game, at least at first).
Where are you seeing what game the spirits are listed from? I only ever see any spirits being listed as from "the X series." And even so what game would you list other than the debut? My point is I don't think there's any intent to represent these games specifically via spirits, and I think intent is important here.

I also don't think they're advertising the switch ports since they're not really balanced in a way that would make sense. In that case why are so many from DQ1 and not 2 and 3? Why use the old NES art that doesn't even match the style of the switch ports? Meanwhile, these are all top of top tier monsters throughout the series that have had important roles in a few games. I'd even argue that the most specific one on here is the Sabrecats, and DQ5 isn't on the switch. It just seems much easier to explain this selection as being for the whole series + some emphasis on 11 than being chosen with the intent to represent DQ1 a lot, then 2, 4, and 5 a bit for some reason.
 

pupNapoleon

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 24, 2014
Messages
8,952
Location
Miami, NYC
NNID
NapoleonPlays
3DS FC
5129-1683-5306
Switch FC
SW 3124 9647 8311
If they added Chibi-Robo, I feel like they'd give him a power management mechanic with him starting at 100% battery life, and that number ticking down over time. His attributes and/or frame data would be much faster from 100%-66%, more normal in from 65%-33%, and pretty slow from 32%-1%. At 0%, he doesn't die 'cuz that would be silly, but he becomes so sluggish as to basically be non-functional. In order to prevent this, his Down or Shield Special would be to recharge with a portable charger provided by Telly.

He could also have electrical attacks (probably Smash Attacks, and a Special Move or two) that are quite powerful, but drain power to use.
Ah... the character I wish had been chosen instead of Corrin.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

Flap and Swish~
Premium
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
34,392
Location
Cull Hazard
NNID
Irene4
3DS FC
1203-9265-8784
Switch FC
SW-7567-8572-3791
Where are you seeing what game the spirits are listed from? I only ever see any spirits being listed as from "the X series." And even so what game would you list other than the debut? My point is I don't think there's any intent to represent these games specifically via spirits, and I think intent is important here.

I also don't think they're advertising the switch ports since they're not really balanced in a way that would make sense. In that case why are so many from DQ1 and not 2 and 3? Why use the old NES art that doesn't even match the style of the switch ports? Meanwhile, these are all top of top tier monsters throughout the series that have had important roles in a few games. I'd even argue that the most specific one on here is the Sabrecats, and DQ5 isn't on the switch. It just seems much easier to explain this selection as being for the whole series + some emphasis on 11 than being chosen with the intent to represent DQ1 a lot, then 2, 4, and 5 a bit for some reason.
Honestly, I was getting that from the Wiki, but I clearly misunderstood the data then. They probably are basing it upon exact artwork, not what the actual in-game data states. My bad on that.

DQ1 is the original franchise game, which positioned the genre to create millions of later games. This wasn't cause of later games. This is the impact the first game had alone. It's the reason Final Fantasy and countless RPG's exist. It just wasn't that popular as a game in the West.
 

Merengue

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 23, 2021
Messages
357
Two is a lot of characters compared to the factors I listed for Earthbound- recency, limited release, sales, number of games, etc.
I really cannot see a series that has three games deserving three characters. Not Earthbound, not Kid Icarus, not any.
I can see you haven't played Earthbound/Mother 3. Mother definitely deserves at least one more
 
Last edited:

pupNapoleon

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 24, 2014
Messages
8,952
Location
Miami, NYC
NNID
NapoleonPlays
3DS FC
5129-1683-5306
Switch FC
SW 3124 9647 8311
DQ1 is the original franchise game, which positioned the genre to create millions of later games. This wasn't cause of later games. This is the impact the first game had alone. It's the reason Final Fantasy and countless RPG's exist. It just wasn't that popular as a game in the West.
Eh, that's a bit of an overstatement.
Ultima was a series out long before Dragon Quest. It, in combination of Dungeons and Dragons, is what spawned a lot of the common tropes in RPGs as we know them today.
I can see you haven't played Earthbound/Mother 3
Does Mother 3- the game not available in English- somehow change how many games there are in a series?

I have played Earthbound. It's fun and whimsical. I also find this to be the case with dozens of Mario games. It doesn't mean I want 87 Mario characters.
 
Last edited:

Merengue

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 23, 2021
Messages
357
Does Mother 3- the game not available in English- somehow change how many games there are in a series?
I have played Earthbound. It's fun and whimsical. I also find this to be the case with dozens of Mario games. It doesn't mean I want 87 Mario characters.
Yea but I don't think two characters is a lot no matter how small a series is. Plus there is emulation to play Mother 3 in English.
 
Last edited:

Dan Quixote

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 25, 2020
Messages
1,126
Location
Florida
I can see you haven't played Earthbound/Mother 3. Mother definitely deserves at least one more
Hot take maybe but EarthBound really only needs Ness to represent it imo. No matter how amazing the games are, it's not too big of a series and including either of the other two protagonists would just be retreading Ness, who is the big posterboy. In general though I'm in favor of representing each series a little bit less if it means more different series can get fighters.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom