Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Would it be possible to find some way to upload a word document on a post here? Like, file attachments or something? That might be the only way I could share my own thesis on who my candidate for the final fighter.

Had you written it on Google Docs, you could've shared a link to it.

Otherwise, copy-pasting and putting everything under a spoiler tag for the sake of not cluttering space?

 

[Willbuysmash4mw]

But Sakurai likes to play the full game and research it to get the full information.

We can see that with both Corrin and Byleth taking 7-8 months before being properly released. And in Byleth's case, Sakurai explicitly said he also had access to early builds and Byleth still came out months after Three Houses. By that logic, the earliest Nahobino could release is May 2022, therefore breaking the deadline.

The only way it could make sense is for you to put on a tinfoil hat and say Atlus is deliberately holding back on SMTV because of Smash, and that's a level of mental gymnastics that I simply can't see happening considering they've made people wait for this game for over four and a half years.

SMT V has been mostly done for a very long time. Sakurai could have easily played the full game via the Japanese version(the same version they were playing at E3, that was the full game, not a demo). The hold up is almost entirely because of the translation and the dub, and that obviously doesn’t stop Sakurai from playing it.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

SMT V has been mostly done for a very long time. Sakurai could have easily played the full game via the Japanese version(the same version they were playing at E3, that was the full game, not a demo). The hold up is almost entirely because of the translation and the dub, and that obviously doesn’t stop Sakurai from playing it.

Where has it been confirmed that it was the full game?

 

[subterrestrial]

SMT V has been mostly done for a very long time. Sakurai could have easily played the full game via the Japanese version(the same version they were playing at E3, that was the full game, not a demo). The hold up is almost entirely because of the translation and the dub, and that obviously doesn’t stop Sakurai from playing it.

even greninja was added onto the roster before the game even released, they just showed sum artwork to sakurai

 

[Inferno7]

Would it be possible to find some way to upload a word document on a post here? Like, file attachments or something? That might be the only way I could share my own thesis on who my candidate for the final fighter.

Considering 7nator and I are able to post multiple college essays and thousand word paragraphs under the same reply without this site exploding on itself, I think you're good by just copypasting it here with spoiler tags.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

I’m not sure how keen Ninrendo is about doing another last minute promotion. We haven’t gotten a single character like that in the entirety of Ultimates DLC.

Promotional picks, yes. But someone who's game either just released or is about to release? Nope.

Seems like Nintendo learned their lesson with Corrin on that front.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

even greninja was added onto the roster before the game even released, they just showed sum artwork to sakurai

Being fair, Pokemon has often been an exception and the attacks animations for Pokemon are so vague that there's not much of a difference between having no source material to look at and actually having some when conceptualizing movesets

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I’m not sure how keen Ninrendo is about doing another last minute promotion. We haven’t gotten a single character like that in the entirety of Ultimates DLC.

Promotional picks, yes. But someone who's game either just released or is about to release? Nope.

Seems like Nintendo learned their lesson with Corrin on that front.

Nintendo really doesn't care though, like, Corrin even got some fanservice in Ultimate despite what people's reactions would make you think

 

[Sucumbio]

Yes, Nahobino. Obviously he isn’t just a sword user, but he definitely has one and uses it, as most SMT protagonists do.

I agree an SMT rep is a safe bet.

What I mean is that if we got an updated Heihachi mii costume that would basically mean no Tekken rep because that is new content for Tekken, but instead we got the old Heihachi mii costume because Heihachi wasn’t going to be a fighter.

.
No kidding? I was unaware such conclusions could be drawn from what is released.

I thought the Namco rep would be a Tales character instead because of the missing Lloyd mii costume, but instead they updated the Lloyd mii costume and deconfirmed Tales with that.

Again, such absolute determinism.... I've yet to really get into the whole thing myself, kinda gets exhausting. However, I never rule anything out because time and again I get surprised and I love that. So this last fighter is going to be a pretty big surprise to many people. That's why I'm interested I suppose.

 

[Perkilator]

Nintendo really doesn't care though, like, Corrin even got some fanservice in Ultimate despite what people's reactions would make you think

Too bad that fanservice didn't extend to an Opera House stage or songs that aren't just Lost in Thoughts All Alone over and over again

 

[DarthEnderX]

I'm not gonna get it, but when it's all over, I really wish they'd put out those numbered mini-trailers for all the DLC characters too...

 

[Willbuysmash4mw]

Where has it been confirmed that it was the full game?

I have been looking for sources and I am having a hard time finding them because they are probably entirely in Japanese(I seen stats like “90% complete” or the words “content complete” thrown around across the internet and they must be coming from somewhere) but considering that Atlus is showing off demons every day(along with small bits of different music tracks) and the gameplay at E3 was very carefully shown to only stay in a small area(and the guy purposely committed suicide against the giant rock demon to end it) and the content was entirely in Japanese, I am inclined to believe the Japanese version is at least done enough for Sakurai to do his thing. I doubt Atlus would give Nintendo of America a demo of the Japanese version when they could get a demo of the English version instead if they bothered to make a demo at all.

 

[Ivander]

While it could happen, would any of y'all find it "funny" that if any third party with currently 3 playable characters gets a 4th?

Third party companies with currently 3 characters are SEGA, Konami, Capcom, and Square Enix.
Would y'all think it'd make them stick out too much or no? Just curious.

Why would it be funny? Any of them getting a 4th makes a lot of sense.

• Sega has Puyo Puyo, Yakuza, Phantasy Star, and as mentioned, a treasure trove of IPs like Golden Axe, Streets of Rage, Valkyria Chronicles, Alex Kidd, House of the Dead, etc.
• Capcom has Resident Evil, Monster Hunter, Devil May Cry, and a whole trove of beloved IPs like Final Fight, Okami, Phoenix Wright, Dead Rising, etc, not to mention the Versus series.
• Konami may not be using alot of their IPs, but besides Bomberman, Konami also has Contra, which was a huge and important game back in the Arcade/NES days, and despite people saying it's "dead", it has a mobile game in China that is apparently frickin' huge and is supposedly getting a release in the West if I heard correctly. Then there's also Silent Hill which is one of the biggest horror franchises next to Resident Evil.
• Square Enix is pretty much the king of RPGs. Not just Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest, but also Kingdom Hearts, Crono Trigger, The World Ends with You, the Mana series, the Bravely series, Star Ocean, the Saga series, and Super Mario RPG. Not to mention it's newest big hit Nier. Then there's the Eidos side which has Tomb Raider and Deus Ex. And then there's the Taito side with Bubble Bobble and frickin' Space Invaders, probably the most important game next to, if not more than, Pac-Man and Pong.

Like regardless of how people think about a company getting a 4th rep, they have franchises where people would agree that it makes alot of sense if they got in.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I have been looking for sources and I am having a hard time finding them because they are probably entirely in Japanese(I seen stats like “90% complete” or the words “content complete” thrown around across the internet and they must be coming from somewhere) but considering that Atlus is showing off demons every day(along with small bits of different music tracks) and the gameplay at E3 was very carefully shown to only stay in a small area(and the guy purposely committed suicide against the giant rock demon to end it) and the content was entirely in Japanese, I am inclined to believe the Japanese version is at least done enough for Sakurai to do his thing. I doubt Atlus would give Nintendo of America a demo of the Japanese version when they could get a demo of the English version instead if they bothered to make a demo at all.

Assumptions =/= Fact

If you can't find proof the game is complete... then it isn't in my eyes.

 

[Theguy123]

Why would it be funny? Alot of them getting a 4th makes a lot of sense.

• Sega has Puyo Puyo, Yakuza, Phantasy Star, and as mentioned, a treasure trove of IPs like Golden Axe, Streets of Rage, Valkyria Chronicles, Alex Kidd, House of the Dead, etc.
• Capcom has Resident Evil, Monster Hunter, Devil May Cry, and a whole trove of beloved IPs like Final Fight, Okami, Phoenix Wright, Dead Rising, etc, not to mention the Versus series.
• Konami may not be using alot of their IPs, but besides Bomberman, Konami also has Contra, which was a huge and important game back in the Arcade/NES days, and despite people saying it's "dead", it has a mobile game in China that is apparently frickin' huge and is supposedly getting a release in the West if I heard correctly. Then there's also Silent Hill which is one of the biggest horror franchises next to Resident Evil.
• Square Enix is pretty much the king of RPGs. Not just Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest, but also Kingdom Hearts, Crono Trigger, The World Ends with You, the Mana series, the Bravely series, Star Ocean, the Saga series, and Super Mario RPG. Not to mention it's newest big hit Nier. Then there's the Eidos side which has Tomb Raider and Deus Ex. And then there's the Taito side with Bubble Bobble and frickin' Space Invaders, probably the most important game next to, if not more than, Pac-Man and Pong.

Like regardless of how people think about a company getting a 4th rep, they have franchises where people would agree that it makes alot of sense if they got in.

Sega only have 2 reps in smash. The smash website and In game trademarks make it clear that atlus is separate to sega.

Also what’s the situation with capcom. Do they specifically only have 2 reps. What’s their situation like because they have 2 trademarks on the smash website and in game because I think it was the USA one that owns street fighter and the Japan one doesn’t, however when you type in “who owns street fighter” specifically it just says capcom and doesn’t mention 1 of the 2.

 

[Gengar84]

While it could happen, would any of y'all find it "funny" that if any third party with currently 3 playable characters gets a 4th?

Third party companies with currently 3 characters are SEGA, Konami, Capcom, and Square Enix.
Would y'all think it'd make them stick out too much or no? Just curious.

I care more about the characters themselves than any kind of company representation. Two of my top three most wanted characters are either from Square-Enix with three characters already or Microsoft, who got two characters this game (Magus and Battletoads).

I don’t think many people would agree with me but I’d honestly rather have Vincent Valentine than most other characters and he would be a third FFVII rep (and not even the one everyone wants).

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Why would it be funny?

I meant funny as in odd, or strange, as in someone HYPOTHETICALLY saying "wtf they have so have reps" or something. I apologize for the lack of clarity.
I agree with your points.

This is not based on my actual opinion in any way, shape or form, so don't come at me.

Also, Space Invaders is owned by Square Enix? Interesting.

 

[Ivander]

Also, Space Invaders is owned by Square Enix? Interesting.

Space Invaders was made by Taito. And Taito was bought by Square Enix, so yeah, Square owns Space Invaders now.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Sega only have 2 reps in smash. The smash website and In game trademarks make it clear that atlus is separate to sega.

But Atlus is a subsidary of Sega, so by extension, Joker is a Sega rep.

Kinda like how Steve is a Microsoft rep because the company bought Mojang or literally every first-party character not made by Nintendo themselves, like the two from Xenoblade or every single Pokémon.

 

[Willbuysmash4mw]

Assumptions =/= Fact

If you can't find proof the game is complete... then it isn't in my eyes.

I am pretty sure we wouldn’t be getting the game in November if the Japanese version wasn’t done right now.

Localization usually takes 6 months or longer and without a fully complete Japanese version that can’t start(and we know it has started because there is English footage in the E3 trailer and story trailer).

 

[SNEKeater]

I mean, SMTV is obviously close to completion considering we're 4 months away from the release, and the amount of content Atlus has been sharing since E3 implies the game should be almost done.

But they will keep working on it even if it's just to polish the game and fix potential bugs. The E3 Treehouse gameplay being in japanese shows they're still working on the localization, which shouldn't start unless the japanese script is completely finalized.

In any case, being close to completion doesn't mean development has finished. That will be the case when they announced the game is gold, and when companies do that it usually happens like one month before of the official release.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I am pretty sure we wouldn’t be getting the game in November if the Japanese version wasn’t done right now.

Localization usually takes 6 months or longer and without a fully complete Japanese version that can’t start(and we know it has started because there is English footage in the E3 trailer and story trailer).

Then once again, I bring to you Byleth.

Their game release internationally on late July 2019. Even with the localization logic, they still released the character in Smash 6 months after 3H launched.

Or if you want a proper example of a product being finished in Japan but not international versions, Corrin.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Nintendo really doesn't care though, like, Corrin even got some fanservice in Ultimate despite what people's reactions would make you think

I mean, getting fanservice after they were added doesn’t really mean anything. Nintendo with Ultimates DLC has made their promotions for games that were already released for a good while.

They saw how much hate Corrin got, they don’t seem to be trying to repeat it.

Not saying Nintendo dislikes Corrin.
Nintendo seems to have given up the idea of promoting a game before it gets properly released.

 

[cj.]

Why would it be funny? Any of them getting a 4th makes a lot of sense.

• Sega has Puyo Puyo, Yakuza, Phantasy Star, and as mentioned, a treasure trove of IPs like Golden Axe, Streets of Rage, Valkyria Chronicles, Alex Kidd, House of the Dead, etc.
• Capcom has Resident Evil, Monster Hunter, Devil May Cry, and a whole trove of beloved IPs like Final Fight, Okami, Phoenix Wright, Dead Rising, etc, not to mention the Versus series.
• Konami may not be using alot of their IPs, but besides Bomberman, Konami also has Contra, which was a huge and important game back in the Arcade/NES days, and despite people saying it's "dead", it has a mobile game in China that is apparently frickin' huge and is supposedly getting a release in the West if I heard correctly. Then there's also Silent Hill which is one of the biggest horror franchises next to Resident Evil.
• Square Enix is pretty much the king of RPGs. Not just Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest, but also Kingdom Hearts, Crono Trigger, The World Ends with You, the Mana series, the Bravely series, Star Ocean, the Saga series, and Super Mario RPG. Not to mention it's newest big hit Nier. Then there's the Eidos side which has Tomb Raider and Deus Ex. And then there's the Taito side with Bubble Bobble and frickin' Space Invaders, probably the most important game next to, if not more than, Pac-Man and Pong.

Like regardless of how people think about a company getting a 4th rep, they have franchises where people would agree that it makes alot of sense if they got in.

Konami also has Frogger! a great classic

 

[Sucumbio]

Darksiders maybe?? Mmmm that'd be yummy.

 

[Aboyd]

Sega only have 2 reps in smash. The smash website and In game trademarks make it clear that atlus is separate to sega.

Also what’s the situation with capcom. Do they specifically only have 2 reps. What’s their situation like because they have 2 trademarks on the smash website and in game because I think it was the USA one that owns street fighter and the Japan one doesn’t, however when you type in “who owns street fighter” specifically it just says capcom and doesn’t mention 1 of the 2.

Sega and Atlus both own Joker, and Atlus is just further away because that part of Sega was added more recently.
The definitive proof he’s considered both? Both companies are listed on the bottom of his amiibo

 

[Cosmic77]

I mean, getting fanservice after they were added doesn’t really mean anything. Nintendo with Ultimates DLC has made their promotions for games that were already released for a good while.

They saw how much hate Corrin got, they don’t seem to be trying to repeat it.

Not saying Nintendo dislikes Corrin.
Nintendo seems to have given up the idea of promoting a game before it gets properly released.

I don't think Nintendo would let that stop them tbh. The reaction to Byleth wasn't a surprise to anyone at Nintendo. If Sakurai himself felt the need to ask that there be "no hard feelings" right before the reveal rather than hype Byleth up, then I'm sure the controversy of another FE character was brought up to the people who chose him at least once.

Every first-party we've gotten as DLC so far just tells me that Nintendo will promote whatever game/character they want without putting much thought on how the fans would react. First-parties are cheaper anyways, so whatever money they lose from upsetting certain parts of the fanbase is made up by the fact that there's no third-party company they have to pay. They also get some easy promotion, so...again, there's not much reason for them to care unfortunately.

 

[Willbuysmash4mw]

Then once again, I bring to you Byleth.

Their game release internationally on late July 2019. Even with the localization logic, they still released the character in Smash 6 months after 3H launched.

Or if you want a proper example of a product being finished in Japan but not international versions, Corrin.

They don’t have to wait that long, it just worked out that way.

It doesn’t matter if they wait 6 months or two weeks, people will claim the character is too new to get into Smash either way. The only thing that matters is the character and other content it comes with avoiding spoilers(and it is very hard to spoil a SMT game after the trailers already show all of the surprises).

 

[ArkSPiTFirE]

I do think if FP11 is not actually going to be a First Party, the most likely company in my head is Sega. At least, that's where my head is going.

That said, I'm way more in favour of ending on a Nintendo character.

 

[Cosmic77]

Still discussing SMTV I see.

It's doable, but I don't think Nintendo would go for it. None of the third-parties have been added on the basis of promoting a new game, which is probably a good indicator that Nintendo reserves those types of additions for games made by their own studios. I feel like people are focused on it right now simply because out of all the games coming out in the immediate future, it's the one they find most realistic given the release date.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

They don’t have to wait that long, it just worked out that way.

It doesn’t matter if they wait 6 months or two weeks, people will claim the character is too new to get into Smash either way. The only thing that matters is the character and other content it comes with avoiding spoilers(and it is very hard to spoil a SMT game after the trailers already show all of the surprises).

They don't have to, but the point is that they do it anyway.

Sakurai just started being a lot more careful after Roy's game got delayed and rewritten to the point where Smash Roy and canon Roy are polar opposites as well as Mother 3 being Japan-exclusive, making Lucas an oddity (well, so was Fire Emblem in Melee, but that was an intentional move from Western divisions since Sakurai himself had no issue making them Japan-only if needed while Lucas in Brawl wasn't, iirc).

I'm not saying either of those things can happen to SMTV, certainly not. But I am saying Sakurai has been playing it safe ever since, which is why new characters tend to not be less than 6 months older than their gaming debut. It's for the sake of accuracy because last-minute changes and delays can happen at any point, which can range from insignificant to completely rewriting certain aspects which can make Sakurai's portrayal of the character in Smash oudated.

Besides, it's not like Nahobino is the only SMT option. There's Demi-Fiend.

 

[subterrestrial]

why do ppl think theyre gonna end the ultimate smash game with a non nintendo character

 

[Guynamednelson]

why do ppl think theyre gonna end the ultimate smash game with a non nintendo character

Hype is a judgment clouder.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

why do ppl think theyre gonna end the ultimate smash game with a non nintendo character

I mean it could, but it also couldn't

Shrugs intensify

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

why do ppl think theyre gonna end the ultimate smash game with a non nintendo character

I mean, it's what they did for Smash 4 (sorta), so there's precedent.

It really can go either way though.

 

[CommanderZaktan]

Would it be possible to find some way to upload a word document on a post here? Like, file attachments or something? That might be the only way I could share my own thesis on who my candidate for the final fighter.

let me see the document. You can post it on Google Docs and paste the link here.

 

[Theguy123]

why do ppl think theyre gonna end the ultimate smash game with a non nintendo character

Because they ended the base roster with a first party and ended the 1st pass with a Nintendo rep which had a backlash soo huge it scared the heck out of Nintendo and forced them to move min min into the first slot of the 2nd pass.

Like who seriously believes it took 7 months to make min min. Something definitely went on behind the scenes and it was probably a shuffle around with the dlc because of byleth’s reaction.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Because they ended the base roster with a first party and ended the 1st pass with a Nintendo rep which had a backlash soo huge it scared the heck out of Nintendo and forced them to move min min into the first slot of the 2nd pass.

Like who seriously believes it took 7 months to make min min. Something definitely went on behind the scenes and it was probably a shuffle around with the dlc because of byleth’s reaction.

do people still think they "learned a lesson" from Byleth when they still made the ****ers regardless of how corrin was received

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Like who seriously believes it took 7 months to make min min. Something definitely went on behind the scenes and it was probably a shuffle around with the dlc because of byleth’s reaction.

Don't they tend to work on two characters at a time? Chances are Steve could have had a hand in the way things went on for development, given the sheer work needed for him.

Also, COVID. They probably got hit HARD when the quarantine started which could've slowed things down a bit.

 

[BlondeLombax]

let me see the document. You can post it on Google Docs and paste the link here.

Oh, there is no document, I was just asking for the sake of clarification.