Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Michael the Spikester]

I don't know why, but the first thing I think of with detaching as a "superpower", I think of someone getting their tongue stuck on an very cold ice pole, detaching the part of the tongue that's stuck, go to get warm water while leaving their tongue stuck on the ice, get their tongue unstuck from the ice with the warm water, then re-attach their tongue.

I don't know why that's what I think of in regards to detaching as a "superpower", but I don't think any kid tricked into licking the ice would refuse such a power in that scenario.

Ignore this post, I accidentally had posted in the wrong thread and didn't delete it before you posted.

 

[TheLamerGamer]

1. We weren’t given any reason, that is the point. The fact that we don’t have a reason for Joker being in Smash after years of him being in is pretty substantial evidence to create conspiracies considering we know exactly why characters like Piranha Plant, Terry and Steve are in.
2. He said that previously they have had a different format for character introductions and it is somehow cheaper for him to do the introductions himself(which I quite frankly don’t believe unless the direct announcer is asking for a ton of money because Joker’s video is obviously cheaply made with the reveal trailer being tacked on in the beginning), that doesn’t mean they weren’t planning to do this all along and the fact that he doesn’t mention Joker when he talks about this like he is some kind of elephant in the room is beyond strange. You would think he would literally say “Joker didn’t get this because...”, but instead he is just explaining why they are doing it this way now.
3. Final Fantasy VII and its remake(including Integrade) are rated Teen by the ESRB, the presentation for Sephiroth being age restricted can’t have anything to do with the game itself. Sephiroth’s reveal trailer also isn’t age restricted.
4. That is all I am saying.
5. I am saying this because you think games and characters with spirits, mii costumes and assist trophies specifically designed for Smash Ultimate have a better chance to get a fighter than a franchise with literally nothing in Smash despite that franchise and a particular game from that franchise being heavily advertised by Nintendo. Nahobino has by far the best chance out of any of the characters being discussed just by looking at Nintendo’s lineup for late 2021. And while he might be kind of a blank slight right now, the game will come out before the final character does. We will learn all about the protag, Nahobino and his friends and enemies. EMMI will always be just a robot(one of several) that doesn’t talk and it’s sole mission is to seek out and kill the things it is programmed to. It’s a mechanic for Dread, not a character.

Arms was planned to be in the base roster, you know this and just choose to bring it up as an example anyway to create some doubt in my argument that doesn’t actually exist.

BOTW has spirits and a mii costume etc and Sakurai has said nothing about it being planned for the base roster other than talking about wanting to do BOTW Zelda during the Byleth presentation and deciding against it. Sakurai specifically mentioned Xenoblade 2 and Arms’s release colliding with the development of Ultimate as the reason for why they originally didn’t get in, and BOTW doesn’t have that problem as a early 2017 game that was delayed from much earlier than that, so unlike Arms and Xenoblade 2 those spirits and that mii costume and other content is all they will put into Ultimate for BOTW.

The reason why I am saying that pack 11 wasn’t originally a part of pass 2 is because if you watch the official unveiling of the 2nd pass during the Byleth presentation pass 2 was originally just shown as 5 fighters and then pack 11 was added on to it from a separate category from either pass to make 6. This means that pack 11 could have been added to pass 1 and none of the characters in pass 2 so far have warranted its last minute existence as they are all “second chance” characters, so pack 11 has to be that character that Nintendo has to advertise to warrant doing another pass and taking 2 years almost to release it. This is the reason why I go to SMT V because if it wasn’t delayed it is entirely possible Nahobino could have been pack 5 in pass 1 and SMT V would have simply replaced Three Houses’ release and marketing in 2019 because Three Houses was heavily delayed too. And that is where my theory that Joker is a last minute add on comes in, because with Nahobino in pass 1 instead of pass 2, Joker, as he is in Ultimate becomes completely redundant as a character in a Megaten side series that is on Sony consoles only. Nahobino can literally have his trailer be about hunting Joker’s stolen Smash invitation down and taking it from him to get into Smash and it works on many levels.

Nintendo going to Atlus to get Nahobino for pass 1 only to be told that SMT V won’t be ready for pass 1 or even close to it and then either Atlus giving Joker to Nintendo to buy time or Nintendo just outright asking for him to buy time fits everything else we know so far. Joker was basically just an advertisement for a PS4 at this point, there is no reason to put Joker in and not a SMT character or any SMT content whatsoever when you are trying to advertise SMT V as a big 3rd party exclusive for the Switch.

We know the final character is going to be from a M rated game, we know the character is from a game that was massively delayed, we know Nintendo wants SMT V to succeed despite putting it up against Pokémon, we know SMT has no content in Smash unlikely most franchises with its size and legacy, and finally we know the final character will take a while and will be finished before the end of the year and can literally take until December 31st if Nintendo wants to. How SMT fans everywhere aren’t extremely giddy with the near certainty these facts provide to everyone that Nahobino is the final character is beyond me.

What is even more strange is that some SMT fans are unreasonably doubtful and others just casually talk about Nahobino being the final fighter like it is no big deal and then go on being pessimistic about SMT’s future.


Read what I typed about challenger pack 11 to TheLamerGamer. It is not ridiculous at all.

I can't be bothered responding to all of that because I'd have to write an entire novel or something.

I do think that SMT content is very likely, but it could easily just be spirits or a mii costume.

We don't know that the final character is from an M rated game, but it is certainly possible. Do we even know SMT V's age rating though?

They showed off Challenger Pack 11 a second later than the rest because it was supposed to be a surprise, since it's one more than last time.

Finally, ARMS wasn't planned for the base roster, since planning was finished before ARMS released. Sakurai just said that he would have chosen an ARMS character had it existed when they decided the roster.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Would be cool if CP11 is a ballot pick.

It would, but at this point, it'd either be a coincidence or just not be one.

After all, they had all of base game and the first Pass to cram Ballot stuff.

With that said, Steve most likely is that in a coincidental way since Minecraft is too huge not to have had a huge voice in the ballot, but it also was never mentionned in any way in the Sakurai Presents.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

It would, but at this point, it'd either be a coincidence or just not be one.

After all, they had all of base game and the first Pass to cram Ballot stuff.

Which they did do.

 

[Willbuysmash4mw]

It was never planned.

Sakurai himself said that ARMS and Xenoblade 2 were shown too late for a character from either game to be considered for the base roster.

There's a difference between "planned but scrapped" and "too late to even be planned"

This is really just a semantics argument though.

My point is that Sakurai wanted them in the base roster but couldn’t get them there, so when it was decided there would be a 2nd pass he took the opportunity to put them in despite initially planning on not being able to get them in and therefore making spirits, mii costumes and assist trophies that seemingly deconfirmed them earlier.

They are the only exceptions to new spirits, mii costumes and assist trophies for Ultimate deconfirming characters. We are not getting a Gen 8 Pokémon or Ring Fit Trainee or Astral Chain characters or Monster Hunter or Resident Evil characters or BOTW characters etc, we literally know this now and that is pretty big as far as final character speculation goes.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

They are the only exceptions to new spirits, mii costumes and assist trophies for Ultimate deconfirming characters. We are not getting a Gen 8 Pokémon or Ring Fit Trainee or Astral Chain characters or Monster Hunter or Resident Evil characters or BOTW characters etc, we literally know this now and that is pretty big as far as final character speculation goes.

This kind of statement never ages well.

We said the same thing for base game Spirits, then Min Min came along.

We said the same thing for DLC Mii Costumes, then Kazuya shows up on top of Sakurai saying Rex was considered as a duo with the Aegis before the idea was scrapped due to ICs already being demanding for the hardware.

At this point, I truly think anything goes, but I'm also cautious enough not to open any Pandora Boxes when openly speculating. I'm more of an "it's not impossible, but I'll believe it when I see it" kind of guy.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

plus, they did hint that CP11 was “one more than last time”. May have been a last minute surprise not connected to the ballot

If first party I’m feeling a promotional pick, if third, then literally anything goes but I don’t think the ballot would have influenced it either way

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

plus, they did hint that CP11 was “one more than last time”. May have been a last minute surprise not connected to the ballot

Or maybe just stating the obvious fact that Pass 2 has 6 characters while Pass 1 had 5.

We're really reading too much into words here.

Also, four of the DLC characters so far (five if you count Hero's Luminary alt) came from games that released after the Ballot ended, so please tell me how they're related to said Ballot when it's literally impossible for them to have even a single vote.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Or maybe just stating the obvious fact that Pass 2 has 6 characters while Pass 1 had 5.

We're really reading too much into words here.

Also, four of the DLC characters so far (five if you count Hero's Luminary alt) came after the Ballot ended, so please tell me how they're related to said Ballot.

Wait, when did the ballot end and when did the original DQ11 release?

But yeah, indeed~ There's a lot who are impossible to be ballot-influenced.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Wait, when did the ballot end and when did the original DQ11 release?

But yeah, indeed~ There's a lot who are impossible to be ballot-influenced.

Ballot ended October 2015

DQ XI first released in Japan in July 2017, almost two years later.

To be fair, I put Luminary in parenthesis because other DQ heroes could still have gotten votes, especially with how huge DQ is in Japan. But Luminary himself cannot possibly be ballot-influenced.

 

[Sucumbio]

Swords are the most common weapon type for a lot of genres of games, especially for the main protagonists. It is unreasonable to go think we won’t get a ton of sword users in Smash now and in the indefinite future.

My prayer only applies to the last ultimate character...... !


That aside, swords are both popular in design and have some really awesome differences between them and one character being a sword lol but yeah I don't think anyone reasonably expects the next game if there is one to not have just as high a ratio of swords vs other.

However I believe this last spot in Ultimate must fulfill a lot of expectations by Nintendo, Mr. Sakurai, and millions of twerps FANS so ...... That said do you honestly believe this last character will be another sword?

Me, 60/40 it's not but 90/10 their kit includes a blade / jabby things like dorf or joker so either stylistic or functional or both.

 

[Inferno7]

I was just saying, I don't see how Sephiroth could be considered a "second chance" character. The rest of the reasoning, for Min Min, Steve, Pythra, and Kazuya, all make sense in this classification.


By any standard- it is an upgrade. Upgraded screen, updated visuals, updated sound, updated kickstand, updated look. Now, is it a 'new model?' Who knows. But It's curious to me that this is even a conversation, and the kinds of mental gymnastics one will go to rather than just accepting reality as is.

Sure, he isn't a 2nd chance character in a vacuum. His content, however, could be considered as such.

 

[Theguy123]

I can't be bothered responding to all of that because I'd have to write an entire novel or something.

I do think that SMT content is very likely, but it could easily just be spirits or a mii costume.

We don't know that the final character is from an M rated game, but it is certainly possible. Do we even know SMT V's age rating though?

They showed off Challenger Pack 11 a second later than the rest because it was supposed to be a surprise, since it's one more than last time.

Finally, ARMS wasn't planned for the base roster, since planning was finished before ARMS released. Sakurai just said that he would have chosen an ARMS character had it existed when they decided the roster.

I personally don’t think we should look into M theory too much now. For starters it’s probably just a coincidence.

2nd of all Nintendo probably just wanted to stay consistent with the first pass

And 3rd of all, if it did mean anything it’ll probably be to do with tekken or Final fantasy. Both have M rated games so they’d probably need to drop the Logos.

That and what potential M rated character could we even get at this point. Ryu was said to not be Happening by koei tecmo 4 times at the start of the pass and it hasn’t happened yet

Doom is western which is probably unlikely, add that to the fact that Bethesda got 2 new mii costumes and they literally said they asked if doom could be in smash but Nintendo laughed it off

And master chief being another western but also another Microsoft rep which I’m doubtful we’ll get 2 Microsoft reps in 1 pass.

Who do we even get that’s M rated from here. Only one I could think off would be SMT

 

[Guynamednelson]

Also, four of the DLC characters so far (five if you count Hero's Luminary alt) came from games that released after the Ballot ended

That doesn't mean we didn't have any ballot picks for DLC whatsoever, as I've said before, WHY WOULD THEY PICK BANJO?

 

[Idon]

Only one I could think off would be SMT

This is how it wins...

by default.

 

[Opossum]

Can you stop shooting down Sora with baseless speculation...
View attachment 323888
FOR 5 MINUTES?!

I'll remember this post the next time the topic of Assist Trophy promotions comes up.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Doom is western which is probably unlikely, add that to the fact that Bethesda got 2 new mii costumes and they literally said they asked if doom could be in smash but Nintendo laughed it off

Did Nintendo laugh it off? I don't remember reading this in the articles.
If true, that's kinda sad that they'd "laugh it off"

Who do we even get that’s M rated from here. Only one I could think off would be SMT

Kratos.... I guess?
A few more I can think of would be Commander Sheppard from Mass Effect, Ezio from Assassin's Creed, and any GTA character.

 

[Schnee117]

That doesn't mean we didn't have any ballot picks for DLC whatsoever, as I've said before, WHY WOULD THEY PICK BANJO?

Maybe read what's actually being said instead of reading something you want to attack

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

That doesn't mean we didn't have any ballot picks for DLC whatsoever, as I've said before, WHY WOULD THEY PICK BANJO?

I personally feel like Banjo is a mix of multiple factors happening all around the same time.

The fact that he was voted well in the Ballot is just one of the many things that lined up for him.

The fact that Phil Spencer was openly willing for it combined with the already existing talks of getting another Microsoft-owned IP in Smash (Minecraft) likely had a much larger impact and the Ballot popularity was simply the final nail in the coffin that made him part of Ultimate.

And also, why the assumption? I said that four of the DLCs were impossible as Ballot picks. There's 11 DLCs right now (if you include Plant) with a 12th one on the way. Last I checked, 12 is a much bigger number than 4, so it's pretty clear that I agree with what you said.

 

[Willbuysmash4mw]

I can't be bothered responding to all of that because I'd have to write an entire novel or something.

I do think that SMT content is very likely, but it could easily just be spirits or a mii costume.

We don't know that the final character is from an M rated game, but it is certainly possible. Do we even know SMT V's age rating though?

They showed off Challenger Pack 11 a second later than the rest because it was supposed to be a surprise, since it's one more than last time.

Finally, ARMS wasn't planned for the base roster, since planning was finished before ARMS released. Sakurai just said that he would have chosen an ARMS character had it existed when they decided the roster.

Yes, we know SMT V is M rated and has earned it.

This kind of statement never ages well.

We said the same thing for base game Spirits, then Min Min came along.

We said the same thing for DLC Mii Costumes, then Kazuya shows up on top of Sakurai saying Rex was considered as a duo with the Aegis before the idea was scrapped due to ICs already being demanding for the hardware.

At this point, I truly think anything goes, but I'm also cautious enough not to open any Pandora Boxes when openly speculating. I'm more of an "it's not impossible, but I'll believe it when I see it" kind of guy.

I have already you told why Xenoblade 2 and Arms don’t count as far as Smash Ultimate content before their reveal as fighters goes.

All of that stuff was made before they decided to do a 2nd pass. Maybe not the Rex mii costume(which was probably made after they knew Rex couldn’t work and Pyra/Mythra would get in instead), but the spirits and the Spring Man assist trophy were made when they were planning only one pass that didn’t include either of them.

Also, Heihachi’s mii costume means nothing other than deconfirming Heihachi because it is from Smash 4.

 

[RileyXY1]

That doesn't mean we didn't have any ballot picks for DLC whatsoever, as I've said before, WHY WOULD THEY PICK BANJO?

Banjo & Kazooie were just free bonuses for Nintendo. What they really wanted was Steve.

 

[Theguy123]

This is how it wins...

by default.

Only problem with smt is that we have strong evidence to suggest that Nintendo held talks with sega for FP2 and not atlus. Considering the 2 are counted separate and we got sonic and bayo in sephiroths trailer it suggests atlus might not have held talks for more content.

 

[Guynamednelson]

And also, why the assumption?

General insecurity over my belief that a first-party can get in without debuting on the Switch.

 

[Theguy123]

Did Nintendo laugh it off? I don't remember reading this in the articles.
If true, that's kinda sad that they'd "laugh it off"



Kratos.... I guess?
A few more I can think of would be Commander Sheppard from Mass Effect, Ezio from Assassin's Creed, and any GTA character.

I remember Bethesda saying in an interview that they asked Nintendo if they could put doom in smash because that’s how solid snake got in but Nintendo kinda laughed about it. I’ll find an image of the interview

 

[Mushroomguy12]

オリンピックの入場式を拝見しています。
こんなにゲーム音楽が使われるなんて…！
知らなかったので意表を突かれました。贅沢の極み。

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) July 23, 2021

I am watching the entrance ceremony of the Olympic Games. How much game music is used ...! I was surprised because I didn't know. The height of luxury.

開会式開始前からエアロバイクを漕ぎながら観ているけど、止められなくて汗だく…

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) July 23, 2021

I've been watching while rowing an exercise bike before the opening ceremony, but I can't stop and I'm sweating ...

 

[Inferno7]

Had a RANDOM though just now where Sakurai would "announce" 5 free to download echo fighters out of nowhere, whether you had the DLC or not

Dixie Kong for
Rock Howard for
Violet for
Black Shadow for
Ms. Pacman for

Easy
Shadow for (if it's the only way)
Dry Bowser for
Galacta Knight for
Jeanne for
Funky Kong for

The echoes are such a wasted concept tbh, wish we could've gotten more

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

General insecurity over my belief that a first-party can get in without debuting on the Switch.

Well, about that...

I actually think that a first-party character would naturally be a pick with a game that's on the Switch.

Before you panic, DO take note of my wording; "a game that's on Switch"

So it doesn't have to be a character who debuted on Switch, just someone who happens to be in a game on that console.

After all, what's the point of them advertising an IP that's been dormant for years as a separate DLC?

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Ya know FNAF 4 is also rated M

 

[Willbuysmash4mw]

Only problem with smt is that we have strong evidence to suggest that Nintendo held talks with sega for FP2 and not atlus. Considering the 2 are counted separate and we got sonic and bayo in sephiroths trailer it suggests atlus might not have held talks for more content.

What strong evidence? This is the first time I have heard anything about Sega concerning pass 2.

 

[Guynamednelson]

After all, what's the point of them advertising an IP that's been dormant for years as a separate DLC?

Maybe it, you know, isn't advertising and instead just catering to fans? I know, how shocking.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Had a RANDOM though just now where Sakurai would "announce" 5 free to download echo fighters out of nowhere, whether you had the DLC or not

Dixie Kong for
Rock Howard for
Violet for
Black Shadow for
Ms. Pacman for

Dixie Kong for
Impa for
Octoling for
Ms. Pacman for
Jeanne for

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Had a RANDOM though just now where Sakurai would "announce" 5 free to download echo fighters out of nowhere, whether you had the DLC or not

Dixie Kong for
Rock Howard for
Violet for
Black Shadow for
Ms. Pacman for

Jin for Kazuya
Violet for Joker
Octoling for Inkling (would prefer unique but whatever)
Black Shadow for Captain Falcon
Medusa for Palutena

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Maybe it, you know, isn't advertising and instead just catering to fans? I know, how shocking.

Reminder that the executives does not give too much of a crap about that.

To them, we're walking wallets, so advertising upcoming or recent games with Smash DLC feels like a good 2-in-1 in concept, getting money both from the DLC and hopefully the game they're from too.

I'm sure Sakurai and the other devs would love to handle some more obscure or dead stuff for their DLC, but they don't have a say in it.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Reminder that the executives does not give too much of a crap about that.

The executives also know there's not any more money to be made off of Smash, and that they keep sending potential promotional picks to the spirit realm.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Would be cool if CP11 is a ballot pick.

Don't know how we'd even recognize if it was. All of the obvious ballot picks are already in, except maybe Sora.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

The executives also know there's not any more money to be made off of Smash, and that they keep sending potential promotional picks to the spirit realm.

But we also know they don't give a damn about stuff like that since we've had three Spirit promotions and a Tekken rep literally a year after getting the Heihachi costume.

For Pass 2, a lot of picks seem unlikely, but if (and that's a big if that's never gonna happen but let's stick to the hypothetical here) Nintendo decided to have a third Pass for the game, anything could happen.

We're the ones shutting down every single thing just so speculation can have a semblance of sanity and order, Nintendo doesn't give a **** about our rules.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

While it could happen, would any of y'all find it "funny" that if any third party with currently 3 playable characters gets a 4th?

Third party companies with currently 3 characters are SEGA, Konami, Capcom, and Square Enix.
Would y'all think it'd make them stick out too much or no? Just curious.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Banjo & Kazooie were just free bonuses for Nintendo. What they really wanted was Steve.

I believe there was an interview between Bill of Nintendo and GameXplain that refers to Phil’s infamous tweet in 2015. Banjo clearly did very well in the Ballot.

Talking with Nintendo's Bill Trinen @ E3 2019 (Banjo & Smash, BotW2, Xbox & amiibo Support, & More!)

We had the chance to sit down with Nintendo Treehouse's very own Bill Trinen to discuss Nintendo's E3 2019 and beyond! Including their relationship with Micr...

youtu.be

 

[Guynamednelson]

Nintendo doesn't give a **** about our rules.

exactly

so maybe they can, you know, add a character they own just to acquire nostalgiabucks from nintendo fans or whatever.

 

[Sucumbio]

Hehachi’s mii costume means nothing other than deconfirming Heihachi because it is from Smash 4.

Actually....

The moment that costume showed up I knew we'd get a Tekken rep eventually. And that far back makes sense because if you know anything about Tekken and it's older games Smash Kazuya (Tekken 7) is the PERFECT blend of Tekken 3 Heihachi and Tekken 2 Kazuya which translated superbly if I may say so. So no, to me it meant everything. Having a Tekken rep was my only real wish beyond a netolay tk3 on PS5 (not holding my breath) so at this point it can be any character and I'll still be happy. But I acknowledge that Heihachi himself didn't get in and I respect that decision. I don't agree that Heihachi's "deconfirmation" was all that was to be "revealed" that day has history turned out with smash Kazuya.