Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[SMAASH! Puppy]

In Tekken 3, Jin was taught by his mother Jun, the Kazama Style Traditional Martial Arts, and when his mother went missing, he seeks his grandfather Heihachi for help. During that time, he learns the Mishima Style Fighting Karate from his grandfather, and he combined both fighting styles into his moveset. In T3, he played a lot like Kazuya but with some additional moves from his own mother's karate. At the end of T3, he got betrayed by his grandfather, and awakened his Devil Gene.

In Tekken 4, Jin decides to abandon the Mishima Style, and he learn/self taught himself some karate, in particular, the Kyokushin style of karate. Devil Jin is the only time where he goes back to the Mishima Style, and uses the Devil Gene power freely. Meaning Jin hardly ever use or incorporate the Devil Gene into his moveset. Though in Street Fighter x Tekken, Jin did use the Devil Gene as his Super Arts/Cross Arts. In the non-canon Tekken Tag series, there is a secret technique called Omen where Jin can go back to the Mishima Style if his partner was Heihachi, or in the sequel, any other Mishima family members.

The difference between Jin and Kazuya is that Jin want nothing do with his father side of the family, the Mishima and that include the power of the Devil Gene. Besides, Jin manage to defeat both his father and grandfather at the end of T4 with his new fighting style.

Here, is a fun video of Jin's Karate.

What I'd like to know is how different they'd be from a gameplay standpoint (in broad strokes). A lot of Kazuya's design choices seem to be made in order to emulate how Tekken works, and his playstyle is very specific. I can kind of picture what Heihachi would do since he'd likely be a semi-clone (mostly the same normals, a similar command list, but a different set of specials), but how would a different character design within the Tekken series translate over to Super Smash Bros.

It is a a good business sense & one of faith issue my fellow smasher. I follow the money which is almost always right. I don't take words into account when the money says something different.

Considering that you don't have anywhere near as good of an idea of what the money is saying as Nintendo does and aren't taking into account them making a decision that may not make the most money (along with the fact that it's not an exact science), that seems unwise.

It just sounds like you're setting yourself up to be surprised that they weren't lying about making a specific decision because you disagreed with it despite lacking perspective.

 

[Schnee117]

This is the same Nintendo who had the "business sense" to not capitalise on Mario Kart 8 Deluxe selling gangbusters with dlc. That's a ton of money they left on the table there.

 

[MasterCheef]

This is the same Nintendo who had the "business sense" to not capitalise on Mario Kart 8 Deluxe selling gangbusters with dlc. That's a ton of money they left on the table there.

The business sense here is mutual opportunity just to be clear.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Honestly given that we may not get a GTA VI for another 4-6 years because realistically GTA V makes Rockstar too much money via its online mode to make a new entry, I'm not complain too much about Nintendo deciding to step away from paid content with games sooner rather than later.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Honestly given that we're probably not going to get a GTA VI for another 5-7 years because realistically GTA V makes Rockstar too much money via its online mode to make a new entry, I'm not complain too much about Nintendo deciding to step away from paid content with games sooner rather than later.

Didn't they show off the design of Grand Theft Auto VI's protagonist though? Was it fake?

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Didn't they show off the design of Grand Theft Auto VI's protagonist though? Was it fake?

There's been rumors and speculation about a male and female protagonist, but nothing concrete; not surprising given there's reports such a game may not out until 2024 or 2025.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

New Melee Mod.

I do think this is a very cool project, especially since to my knowledge the modding possibilities for Melee are pretty restricted compared to other Smash games. So seeing it get its equivalent to Project M or Smash Remix is pretty cool to see.

That being said, I'm not a fan of how in the presentation they took random potshots at Project M for seemingly no reason. Seems pretty unprofessional even if this mindset isn't shared across the dev team.

 

[TheLamerGamer]

Even though I'd rather have a summoner, Jack Frost would be pretty cool. He's ATLUS' mascot, and is present in practically all of their games.

He technically caters to McJRPG and Scrimblo Bimblo fans as well, since he's the protagonist of Synchronicity Prologue, which is a 2D platformer (as far as I can tell). He also starred in Jack Bros. for the virtual boy, the best game ever made.

He'd probably come with this song as well, which I basically consider "Hee-Ho's theme":

Jokes aside, I feel like SMT has been reduced to the next "shill-pick" which is heavily underselling it. It's a massively influential JRPG franchise that's been around since the famicom, and has always been present on modern platforms. There's a reason Nintendo thought it was big enough to he the highlight of the first partner showcase - It's not FF tier by a long way, but it's not small by any means. It's one of the biggest JRPG franchises not yet in smash, and I'd absolutely say it's the most influential series in the genre not to be represented. People just feel like it's small since it took a while for the series to release here, but by that time it had already gained a large fanbase in Japan.

Finally, I believe a third pass is possible, but not now. I feel like Sakurai's been very clear that this is the end, but if Nintendo really wanted a third one to be made to get some extra sales towards the end of the switch's life smash would be a guaranteed way to generate a lot of hype. I doubt it would happen though, and I personally think this is it, full stop, no more smash (until the next console hopefully, I don't want the series to die obviously).

 

[One winged Devil]

I'm pretty sure that A.T's are more likely to be made into "Deluxe" Mii Fighter Costumes then full on fighters, Which just begs the question of why we doesn't have more of them like Bomberman.

 

[RileyXY1]

If Sonic is getting another rep I think that Tails and Dr. Eggman would be the top 2 choices. Although Tails' odds are lower because of his Mii Fighter costume and if Dr. Eggman gets in then people might create a new fanrule that the second unique rep of all third party franchises in Smash has to be a villain.

 

[N3ON]

The business sense here is mutual opportunity just to be clear.

They could continue to make money vs. Sakurai explicitly saying the end is coming.

It's one thing to speculate when we don't have an answer, it's another to ignore the information we've been imparted with.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

If Sonic is getting another rep I think that Tails and Dr. Eggman would be the top 2 choices. Although Tails' odds are lower because of his Mii Fighter costume and if Dr. Eggman gets in then people might create a new fanrule that the second unique rep of all third party franchises in Smash has to be a villain.

Then you least expect it and we end up with Amy Rose instead.

 

[RileyXY1]

Then you least expect it and we end up with Amy Rose instead.

I don't think that Amy is getting in until either Tails or Dr. Eggman get in.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I don't think that Amy is getting in until either Tails or Dr. Eggman get in.

I dunno. With the choices we've been getting and the similar levels of importance that Tails, Dr. Eggman, Amy, Shadow, and Knuckles have I'm not sure you could possibly predict which order they'd come in.

At this point, Amy first wouldn't surprise me in the least.

 

[PeridotGX]

Terry time!

I'm not much of a fighting game/metal slug fan, so I don't really know if these are popular locations. I kinda chose them on a whim.

time to finish up the fighter's pass!

Astral Chain gets a stage because it's a new series nintendo would want to promote, Floral Fury because of the cuphead Mii (it's not the cuphead stage I'd go with on my first choice, but the song kinda ties my hands), and Venus Lighthouse to try and appease fans after this somewhat controversial reveal.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Since we're nearing another Tourney/Event announcement, I'm still predicting we'll see at least one or two more events with new Spirits before the ride ends. We've roughly got 2 between each character on average, so that's what I'm going for.

Also, we're 14 Spirits away from 1500! There's a good chance we're hitting that mark, assuming we do get two more events.

 

[MattX20]

Even though I'd rather have a summoner, Jack Frost would be pretty cool. He's ATLUS' mascot, and is present in practically all of their games.

He technically caters to McJRPG and Scrimblo Bimblo fans as well, since he's the protagonist of Synchronicity Prologue, which is a 2D platformer (as far as I can tell). He also starred in Jack Bros. for the virtual boy, the best game ever made.

He'd probably come with this song as well, which I basically consider "Hee-Ho's theme":

Jokes aside, I feel like SMT has been reduced to the next "shill-pick" which is heavily underselling it. It's a massively influential JRPG franchise that's been around since the famicom, and has always been present on modern platforms. There's a reason Nintendo thought it was big enough to he the highlight of the first partner showcase - It's not FF tier by a long way, but it's not small by any means. It's one of the biggest JRPG franchises not yet in smash, and I'd absolutely say it's the most influential series in the genre not to be represented. People just feel like it's small since it took a while for the series to release here, but by that time it had already gained a large fanbase in Japan.

Finally, I believe a third pass is possible, but not now. I feel like Sakurai's been very clear that this is the end, but if Nintendo really wanted a third one to be made to get some extra sales towards the end of the switch's life smash would be a guaranteed way to generate a lot of hype. I doubt it would happen though, and I personally think this is it, full stop, no more smash (until the next console hopefully, I don't want the series to die obviously).

I feel that if SMT was going to get in Smash, they'd use the 5th game's protagonist since much like Dragon Quest until the DQ heroes and 11S's release, it's not the most well known or established series outside of Japan. The Demifiend falls into the same problem that Erdrick had: they would arguably represent the series, but that's mostly known to JRPG fans and Japanese fans and are otherwise unknown to the general public in the West. That, and the development timeline for SMT5 really hurts the chances of it's protagonist joining considerably since Byleth's game was only delayed to 2019 where as SMT5 is now releasing this year and was stuck in development since 2017. I don't think Sakurai would've had time to sample it in a decent enough state.

 

[Inferno7]

I don't think that Amy is getting in until either Tails or Dr. Eggman get in.

I don't think there's a particular or set order in which the newcomers from a 3rd party IP should get in, sounds like a fanmade quota to me
If that was the case Kazuya could never possibly get in before Heihachi

 

[MattX20]

Since we're nearing another Tourney/Event announcement, I'm still predicting we'll see at least one or two more events with new Spirits before the ride ends. We've roughly got 2 between each character on average, so that's what I'm going for.

Also, we're 14 Spirits away from 1500! There's a good chance we're hitting that mark, assuming we do get two more events.

Actually, 13 spirits if you count the promotional spirit for the MH Stories thing

 

[3BitSaurus]

Actually, 13 spirits if you count the promotional spirit for the MH Stories thing

Ooh yeah, forgot that.

EDIT: Kinda baffling that MH is the only 3rd party series without a fighter whose content actually spans multiple games. Well, technically RE too, but the content for that one was streamlined into one event.

 

[MattX20]

Ooh yeah, forgot that.

EDIT: Kinda baffling that MH is the only 3rd party series without a fighter whose content actually spans multiple games. Well, technically RE too, but the content for that one was streamlined into one event.

Well, there are still 2 missing spirit events that have yet to show up: 1019 and 1035. There's a decent chance we'll see both of these before the end of the year

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I don't think there's a particular or set order in which the newcomers from a 3rd party IP should get in, sounds like a fanmade quota to me
If that was the case Kazuya could never possibly get in before Heihachi

The Mishima family is the core of Tekken's story. Sakurai stated so himself; he wanted a Mishima.

Kazuya simply got an edge over Heihachi because of the Devil Gene, another very important part of the franchise.

What does Amy do that warrants her being put over Sonic's best friend or his archnemesis?

 

[DarthEnderX]

Maybe I'm lost or something, but this was EricTheGamerman's post:

Oh. I was thinking of a different post.

Out of all the things, this is the one thing people choose to ignore

Honestly, the least believable part was two Tales characters in one pass.

I do not ignore it i merely cannot give it credit when it is the executive director's Shuntaro Furukawa decision on how many DLC fighter's should be added.

...and you think Furukawa is unaware Sakurai has been saying the DLC is ending?

As if he'd just let him keep saying it over and over if it wasn't true?

-The only reason I've seen as to why people think he should be a clone is because of gameplay similarities with Sonic in some games, and Shadow in particular isn't the only one affected by this

Specifically his debut appearance, SA2. Where he plays identically to Sonic, with only a few animation differences.

-Absolutely no one expected him to be a clone before Ultimate, idk why this is the case rn

Nobody expected him to get in at all before Ultimate, he was already an AT. They assumed Tails or Knuckles would get in. The introduction of Echoes was the thing that made people think he had a chance.

 

[Dan Quixote]

This is the same Nintendo who had the "business sense" to not capitalise on Mario Kart 8 Deluxe selling gangbusters with dlc. That's a ton of money they left on the table there.

I think the main reason they didn't do that for MK8D is because that's supposed to be a complete, definitive edition of MK8, and putting DLC into a definitive edition is a party foul.

time to finish up the fighter's pass!

Astral Chain gets a stage because it's a new series nintendo would want to promote, Floral Fury because of the cuphead Mii (it's not the cuphead stage I'd go with on my first choice, but the song kinda ties my hands), and Venus Lighthouse to try and appease fans after this somewhat controversial reveal.

Okay I love your stage mockups but this is the one that made me realize that people would totally treat them like Mii costumes. People would totally see that Venus Lighthouse stage and just lament Isaac being "deconfirmed" instead of being happy Golden Sun got a stage. (and probably a real cool stage with a lot of cameos if it's DLC)

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I think the main reason they didn't do that for MK8D is because that's supposed to be a complete, definitive edition of MK8, and putting DLC into a definitive edition is a party foul.

And yet they commision DLC for a game that literally has "EVERYONE IS HERE!" as its tagline and goes out of its way to add stuff requested by fans.

Sounds pretty complete and definitive to me.

I think Nintendo just straight up missed an opportunity with Mario Kart.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

time to finish up the fighter's pass!

Astral Chain gets a stage because it's a new series nintendo would want to promote, Floral Fury because of the cuphead Mii (it's not the cuphead stage I'd go with on my first choice, but the song kinda ties my hands), and Venus Lighthouse to try and appease fans after this somewhat controversial reveal.

Astral Plane be looking cleeeeeeeean

are you gonna do bonus stages for pass 2 too? Cause I would love an X stage with Pyra/Mythra. I think Sylvalum would be the most unique biome wise

 

[Inferno7]

The Mishima family is the core of Tekken's story. Sakurai stated so himself; he wanted a Mishima.

Kazuya simply got an edge over Heihachi because of the Devil Gene, another very important part of the franchise.

What does Amy do that warrants her being put over Sonic's best friend or his archnemesis?

I never said it would be the case since she's obviously far less requested than them, but I've always found it silly to say that just because character A is more important narrative-wise or has more merits, should get in over B who's just as requested if not more.

It's the case with people who put Tails and Eggman on a pedestal when it comes to the next Sonic rep, even though SEGA themselves doesn't give them the same priority as they did back in the day.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I never said it would be the case since she's obviously far less requested than them, but I've always found it silly to say that just because character A is more important narrative-wise or has more merits, should get in over B who's just as requested if not more.

It's the case with people who put Tails and Eggman on a pedestal when it comes to the next Sonic rep, even though SEGA themselves doesn't give them the same priority as they did back in the day.

The logic is that someone with more importance on a narrative aspect would make them more memorable to the players.

After all, they could've always added Yuffie instead of Sephiroth to market the upcoming Remake DLC but like. putting Yuffie over Sephiroth or any of the party members that, unlike Yuffie, aren't optional in the original FF7? That'd be sacrilege.

I think they do look at how much a character matters. Maybe what they look at isn't the same as what we assume they would look at, but there's definitely a logic as to who they add when it comes to third-parties.

 

[Inferno7]

The logic is that someone with more importance on a narrative aspect would make them more memorable to the players.

After all, they could've always added Yuffie instead of Sephiroth to market the upcoming Remake DLC but like. putting Yuffie over Sephiroth or any of the party members that, unlike Yuffie, aren't optional in the original FF7? That'd be sacrilege.

I think they do look at how much a character matters. Maybe what they look at isn't the same as what we assume they would look at, but there's definitely a logic as to who they add when it comes to third-parties.

Idk why you use Yuffie as a comparison, when there's Tifa who's just as important to the plot as well as having more overall screen time than Sephiroth on the mainline games, and afaik was just as requested before.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I do not ignore it i merely cannot give it credit when it is the executive director's Shuntaro Furukawa decision on how many DLC fighter's should be added.

The fact that there's only one character left and still no sign of things changing makes me think that yes, next fighter is the end.

Anything can happen, yes, but we got news of us getting extra fighters long before Byleth was revealed. Don't remember if it was on the Banjo or Terry Direct, but it was definitely a few months before the actual Pass 2's reveal.

At this point, it's safer to assume we're on the homestretch.

Idk why you use Yuffie as a comparison, when there's Tifa who's just as important to the plot as well as having more overall screen time than Sephiroth on the mainline games, and afaik was just as requested before.

See? Now you're contradicting yourself by saying Tifa should be before her since she's more important so there is a hierarchy of importancw.

You just proved my point

 

[Inferno7]

See? Now you're contradicting yourself by saying Tifa should be before her since she's more important.

You just proved my point

What? Learn to read, I was comparing her with Seph not Yuffie, if we looked at both in a vacuum you'd think she could get in before him due to comparable merits + more screentime

But whatever gives you likes ig

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

What? Learn to read, I was comparing her with Seph not Yuffie, if we looked at both in a vacuum you'd think she could get in before him due to comparable merits + more screentime

But whatever gives you likes ig

A. I was using an example of someone who doesn't matter much to the plot to see if you'd keep your "importance doesn't matter as much" argument. Yuffie just happened to be topical because she'd have been relevant at the time with her DLC.

B. Amy has comparable merits to Sephiroth? ....I guess Sonic would see a stalker fangirl as pure evil

 

[Inferno7]

A. I was using an example of someone who doesn't matter much to the plot to see if you'd keep your "importance doesn't matter as much" argument. Yuffie just happened to be topical because she'd have been relevant at the time with her DLC.

B. Amy has comparable merits to Sephiroth? ....I guess Sonic would see a stalker fangirl as pure evil

A. That's because no one is asking for Yuffie, meanwhile both Tifa and Sephiroth were evenly matched in requests before

B. Yeah I know, but she's still a recognizable character from a huge IP. That alone makes her just as worthy as everyone else.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Didn't they show off the design of Grand Theft Auto VI's protagonist though? Was it fake?

So I've heard MORE rumors that the protagonist is female than that the protagonist is male.
But again, these are merely rumors.

 

[Arcanir]

And yet they commision DLC for a game that literally has "EVERYONE IS HERE!" as its tagline and goes out of its way to add stuff requested by fans.

Sounds pretty complete and definitive to me.

I think Nintendo just straight up missed an opportunity with Mario Kart.

On top of that, it wouldn't be the first time a 'definitive edition' had additional content on it. Even from Nintendo there's Pokken DX which added the Arcade four (who were in the Wii U version's code, but never added) plus Decidueye, and then added a couple other DLC Pokemon on top of that. If Nintendo wanted they could've added more DLC to Mario Kart 8 DX, they just chose not to.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

That's because no one is asking for Yuffie, meanwhile both Tifa and Sephiroth were evenly matched in requests before

And characters with narrative importance tend to become popular for the most part.

There are exceptions though. Scorpion from Mortal Kombat is a good one because it took 10 mainline games for him to have a major narrative importance other than "I killed a Sub-Zero", but he was still so popular in the early days that him not being in the original MK3 was controversial.

But these exceptions tend to be justified by popularity. Problem is I don't really see a timeline where Amy is more popular than Tails or Eggman, especially thanks to the movies.

Yeah I know, but she's still a recognizable character from a huge IP. That alone makes her just as worthy as everyone else.

There are better choices.

Not saying Amy is bad, but that's like saying you'd want Yoshimitsu instead of Kazuya. Like, yeah, Yoshi's popular but that doesn't mean he's gonna be the best choice.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

GTA V makes Rockstar too much money

In the $1B USD mark to be specific lmao

 

[RileyXY1]

Amy was not even playable in Mania while characters of a lesser standing in the series than she was got in. I don't see them adding her into Smash with this mindset.

 

[Guynamednelson]

GTA V makes Rockstar too much money via its online mode to make a new entry

In the $1B USD mark to be specific lmao

Money isn't the only issue though; Rockstar specifically WANTS to make games that require several years of development, as much manpower as humanly possible, and hundreds of millions invested into them. RDR2 is a good example of this: There were no new Rockstar titles being released between it and GTAV, it's their highest budget work ever, and instead of having it just be done by the San Diego studio like the first one, ALL of Rockstar had to work on it, hence why you just see Rockstar credited at the start instead of Rockstar followed by a specific studio.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

In the $1B USD mark to be specific lmao

Wasn't 1 billion what it made in its initial launch period 8 years ago?

The profits they made with it is probably insane today.