Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[MasterCheef]

You put alot of effort into this, Loving it

What I will say though is a Couple of things

-In terms of Sakurai going back at his word, he has done that but not in such a short timespan. When Sakurai declined those characters, he meant it for the current game being worked on (which was Brawl for Majority of the characters, and Ridley for Smash 4 also.) He reconsidered the ideas years later for New games

Him saying CP11 is final character of Smash Ultimate, even now doesn't bring much hope in FP3. Sakurai and Nintendo might likely communicate about potential FP3

I guess the best argument you could say is that maybe Nintendo would decide to do FP3 without the Guidance of Sakurai and the Developers, as that was what was done when DLC was greenlit around Janauary of 2018

-Some of the Arguementive points aren't the best, as alot rely on rumors and such, each with varying levels of crediablity.

One thing I will say is that Projectile glitch you mentioned for Chief was actually disproven. It's been in the game since launch

The leak surrounding Matoi also listed Ryu as a fighter, yet he's not listed as among FP2 or FP3 in your list

I wouldn't look to much to Xander saying alot of fruit names for Paya. The Fruit was likely just to make sure he doesn't read too much into the names

Why Lloyd Bannings? I thought Rean was the main character, and also most popular Falcom character, or one of them

And I wish to hear explantion on why you think Tabuu could be bonus. yes

First Everything I have posted about has mostly Facts and a few reasonable guesses to back it up.

Second, We need to clear up who is actually the Executive Producer of Smash Ultimate who would be Shuntaro Furukawa Nintendo President. Shuntaro Furukawa who became president in 2018 is the ultimate decider on how many fighters we get not Masahiro Sakurai. Masahiro Sakurai is basically Furukawa's Yes Man because he promised Satoru Iwata ( He Sakurai ) would finish Ultimate.

Third which i did not mention which i clearly need to and will be edited to include is this situation feels very reminiscent of Smash 4's DLC history where Sakurai denied the daylights out of having more dlc planned after i believe Mewtwo. In reality he had 6 characters left.

Fourth, the reason I use the leaks is they all have proven true up until now. However i don't honestly think they are necessary given the relationships each company has with Nintendo which is sufficient for me to believe in a Third Fighter's pass.

Fifth a glitch being in the game since launch disproves nothing, especially if the character was planned before then.

Sixth The leak mentioning Hayabusa as a fighter did not actually clarify him being a fighter. It merely stated he would be coming. I expect him to be mii'd

Seventh Paya's inclusion is the only reason i can think of to include fruit in the list of names for the announcer.

Eighth The reason I believe Lloyd Bannings is because there has yet to be a missed opportunity with a third party game promotion and a smash inclusion and i don't expect to see any deviation of this pattern.

Ninth I believe Tabuu is likely a bonus fighter because he would be the easiest to produce as a bonus fighter as far as legal issues are concerned. He does not require a stage, nor spirits, nor music. To me Tabuu is also the most integral character to Smash's history as far as the story goes.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Can anyone pull up the Hayabusa and Matoi leak real quick? Wanna verify something

 

[Inferno7]

Alright kids. BET YOUR BURGER KING! Who's the final fighter?

BURGER KING IS ONE THE LINE! WHO'S GONNA LOSE THEIR BURGER KING?

View attachment 322378


I'm betting my Burger King on Waluigi.

Not betting jack but I'm unsure about who could be next

I've got a hang of it though, and I think it's either Capcom or SEGA since double-dips or new companies seem very, very unlikely as of now.

So I'll just default to the bigger franchises that each have to offer: Resident Evil & Sonic respectively. Among the candidates I also think Leon & Shadow could be the most likely due to several reasons I'm not willing to post here unless you want a whole essay incoming

 

[perfectchaos83]

Fourth, the reason I use the leaks is they all have proven true up until now. However i don't honestly think they are necessary given the relationships each company has with Nintendo which is sufficient for me to believe in a Third Fighter's pass.

There have been zero long term leaks besides Hero and we haven't had any real leaks since Terry and that one is only because Nintendo ****ed up which led to people opening up their mouths. Saying those leaks are true is farfetched to say the least.

 

[MasterCheef]

Wanna verify something

here you go.
https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/541591126/#q541596708

 

[Theguy123]

Not betting jack but I'm unsure about who could be next

I've got a hang of it though, and I think it's either Capcom or SEGA since double-dips or new companies seem very, very unlikely as of now.

So I'll just default to the bigger franchises that each have to offer: Resident Evil & Sonic respectively. Among the candidates I also think Leon & Shadow could be the most likely due to several reasons I'm not willing to post here unless you want a whole essay incoming

Heck yeah. Love hearing people’s reasons to why people think characters are likely. Deffo do it

here you go.
https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/541591126/#q541596708

Why’s anyone entertaining this leak. BOTW 2 isn’t being released this year

Kirby game was already being speculated about, same with Mario golf

2D Metroid was already being discussed and rumoured

And sakurai has already stated no more characters after FP11

 

[MasterCheef]

Why’s anyone entertaining this leak. BOTW 2 isn’t being released this year

Kirby game was already being speculated about, same with Mario golf

2D Metroid was already being discussed and rumoured

And sakurai has already stated no more characters after FP11

it is very interesting how you all swallow whole the "Sakurai said no more characters after Fighters Pass 2". How many of you are aware he already went back on his word doing the exact same thing in Smash 4's development?

 

[Theguy123]

it is very interesting how you all sit and nearly swallow whole the "Sakurai said no more characters after Fighters Pass 2". When he already went back on his word doing the exact same thing in Smash 4's development

Even if there was more characters on the way (which there’s not) this leak is still fake anyways.

Also gonna need to see a source on this sakurai going back on his word my friend otherwise this is just bait at its finest.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Even if there was more characters on the way (which there’s not) this leak is still fake anyways.

Also gonna need to see a source on this sakurai going back on his word my friend otherwise this is just bait at its finest.

I think he's referring to Sakurai saying DLC wasn't being planned in an interview before changing his mind, though that was because he wanted to finish the base game first before DLC plans

 

[StrangeKitten]

Alright kids. BET YOUR BURGER KING! Who's the final fighter?

BURGER KING IS ONE THE LINE! WHO'S GONNA LOSE THEIR BURGER KING?

View attachment 322378


I'm betting my Burger King on Waluigi.

I'm betting my Burger King on Eggman. Anything in service of the Eggman empire! Plus, if I'm wrong, I'll make him go to Burger King with me. The suspect always returns to the scene of the crime, so we'll finally be able to arrest him for urinating on the moon murdering Spongebob. If I'm right, guess he evades capture by joinging Smash.

I have no idea whom I'm supposed to give my Burger King to if I'm wrong. Spongebob's parents I guess, who would be the most worthy.

 

[SharkLord]

Broke: Arguing that the speculation is wrong because Sakurai keeps saying the next character is the last one for Ultimate.

Woke: Arguing the speculation is wrong because Lloyd Bannings' games won't be localized until next year

More than anything I'm just miffed that Lloyd is listed as being from the Cold Steel arc rather than Zero or Azure. Rean's the Cold Steel guy, not Lloyd.
Granted, I hear he does show up in the Cold Steel arc, but he most certainly didn't debut there and I don't know why he'd be listed for Cold Steel over either of the Crossbell games.

 

[MasterCheef]

Even if there was more characters on the way (which there’s not) this leak is still fake anyways.

Also gonna need to see a source on this sakurai going back on his word my friend otherwise this is just bait at its finest.

I actually was not really defending the leak. I was more commenting on how ya'll don't believe in fighter's pass 3.

also proof on Smash 4 Sakurai saying no more DLC after Mewtwo

http://nintendoeverything.com/sakurai-no-premium-smash-bros-dlc-currently-planned-more/ this article is from 2014

More than anything I'm just miffed that Lloyd is listed as being from the Cold Steel arc rather than Zero or Azure. Rean's the Cold Steel guy, not Lloyd.
Granted, I hear he does show up in the Cold Steel arc, but he most certainly didn't debut there and I don't know why he'd be listed for Cold Steel over either of the Crossbell games.

oh i did not know they were different arcs. my apologies.

 

[Inferno7]

Heck yeah. Love hearing people’s reasons to why people think characters are likely. Deffo do it

Ded srs? If that's so:

My case for Leon;
-Resident Evil is by far the biggest Capcom franchise not in the game yet, but has been dismissed in favor of MH in speculation for some reason
-Most popular and iconic RE protagonist
-Most requested RE character for Smash
-Unlike Kazuya who possessed the Devil Gene to make him more distinguishable from the other FGCs, there's no reason to go after another character for RE because Leon would just be as unique as everyone else
-Sakurai loves to accurately portray the gameplay of a series that's soon getting into Smash, and since Leon is a protagonist he'd be able to fill this niche unlike characters such as Nemesis or Wesker
-Not being in fighting games could actually be a reason as to why Sakurai would pick him, in order to give him a ''chance'' and such but this is more speculative if anything

My case for Shadow:
-Sakurai likes edgy characters (Sephiroth, Dark Pit, Navarre from FE, Iori, etc.)
-2nd most popular character from Sonic
-Serves as a rival (and perfect contrast) for Sonic, a current trend on Ultimate due to the whole Light/Dark theme thing going on
-His popularity as a Smash pick had a significant spike in base game, it's hard to imagine they would go for someone else when FP2's focus seems to mainly be from base game omissions (XC2, ARMS and Tekken to name a few)
-2nd chance theory
-Would have enough gimmicks/unique mechanics to warrant a DLC inclusion, with moves such as Chaos Control (time-stop ability) and Chaos Boost (a comeback mechanic that would serve a similar purpose as Kazuya's rage, by giving him enhanced moves and stats)
-Being praised by the man himself, nuff said

Only thing holding Shadow back would be the AT situation or either party (Nintendo/SEGA) not wanting to play ball, or simply choosing to get another IP instead.

Leon is self-explanatory, but the real reason why I chose these two is because each and every single DLC in FP2 has broken some sort of perceived fanrule, such as
-Spirit promotions
-Mii costumes/waves having to fit an overall theme or follow the character from their respective series
-Everything that was perceived against FF7 or Minecraft
-''Most iconic or important character first'' (Kazuya over Heihachi, but I'll expect the incoming essay)
-''Protagonists first'' (Pythra and Min Min, although the latter is debatable the first one certainly isn't)
-''Mii promotions are impossible'' (Sakurai literally talked about the possibility of making Rex playable, even when he wasn't just a DLC mii costume, but an exclusive for buying the first pass altogether. Keep in mind FP2 wasn't a thing yet when he was made.)
-''No second unique 3rd party fighters from the same franchise as DLC'' (Sephy says hi)
-Sakurai didn't mention Spring Man's status as an AT, and I'm pretty sure if the ARMS director had asked him to choose Spring Man instead, the madlad wouldn't have refused


In short, most people would have called me a madman had I predicted all of the characters present in FP2 just as I try to do with the last one, but here we are.

RE spirit event largely sits in a grey area, when they didn't show us the amount of fighters that were included in FP2 yet. It's quite possible that negotations fell through at first, but somehow went smoothly afterwards with the spirit event being a side effect from that (or a red herring a la Heihachi as you may call it).

Edit: I forgot to say this, but the 3rd party franchises included in FP2 have been pretty big deals overall, not to mention that unlike FP1 (that started on a big note with Joker) this one went for Min Min straight up, which is what makes me optimistic about the last one potentially being a well-received/crowdpleaser inclusion.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

MasterCheef a quick reminder to not double post; use the edit button instead. I know you’re new; it’s just to keep in mind for the future.

 

[SnowClaws]

Never played Tekken, not to knowledgeable on it but how different is Jin from Kazuya being they both have the devil gene?

In Tekken 3, Jin was taught by his mother Jun, the Kazama Style Traditional Martial Arts, and when his mother went missing, he seeks his grandfather Heihachi for help. During that time, he learns the Mishima Style Fighting Karate from his grandfather, and he combined both fighting styles into his moveset. In T3, he played a lot like Kazuya but with some additional moves from his own mother's karate. At the end of T3, he got betrayed by his grandfather, and awakened his Devil Gene.

In Tekken 4, Jin decides to abandon the Mishima Style, and he learn/self taught himself some karate, in particular, the Kyokushin style of karate. Devil Jin is the only time where he goes back to the Mishima Style, and uses the Devil Gene power freely. Meaning Jin hardly ever use or incorporate the Devil Gene into his moveset. Though in Street Fighter x Tekken, Jin did use the Devil Gene as his Super Arts/Cross Arts. In the non-canon Tekken Tag series, there is a secret technique called Omen where Jin can go back to the Mishima Style if his partner was Heihachi, or in the sequel, any other Mishima family members.

The difference between Jin and Kazuya is that Jin want nothing do with his father side of the family, the Mishima and that include the power of the Devil Gene. Besides, Jin manage to defeat both his father and grandfather at the end of T4 with his new fighting style.

Here, is a fun video of Jin's Karate.

 

[MasterCheef]

MasterCheef a quick reminder to not double post; use the edit button instead. I know you’re new; it’s just to keep in mind for the future.

so i should just put replies to two different people in the same post?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

so i should just put replies to two different people in the same post?

Pretty much. Just quote a person, then copy the current content, edit your earlier post and paste it in there and reply.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

so i should just put replies to two different people in the same post?

Either that or wait for another post to happen first

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

And sakurai has already stated no more characters after FP11

Out of all the things, this is the one thing people choose to ignore

 

[chocolatejr9]

Out of all the things, this is the one thing people choose to ignore

Oh boy, I can't wait to see the response when reality sets in...

 

[MasterCheef]

Out of all the things, this is the one thing people choose to ignore

I do not ignore it i merely cannot give it credit when it is the executive director's Shuntaro Furukawa decision on how many DLC fighter's should be added.

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

I'm betting my Burger King on Eggman. Anything in service of the Eggman empire! Plus, if I'm wrong, I'll make him go to Burger King with me. The suspect always returns to the scene of the crime, so we'll finally be able to arrest him for urinating on the moon murdering Spongebob. If I'm right, guess he evades capture by joinging Smash.

I have no idea whom I'm supposed to give my Burger King to if I'm wrong. Spongebob's parents I guess, who would be the most worthy.

In this case, yes. Give your Burger King to Spongebob's parents. Eggman killed Spongebob at the Burger King and it was very tragic for them so like a lot of restaurants do, just go "Sorry you had a bad time, have a free meal".

Peeing on the moon, murdering Spongebob at a Burger King... Eggman doesn't know when to quit. Maybe he will join Super Smash Bros yet.. purely to avoid capture for the murder of Spongebob Squarepants of course.

 

[MasterCheef]

Oh boy, I can't wait to see the response when reality sets in...

Honestly i am satisfied. I will be happy if Fighter's pass 2 actually is the end because i have 3 mains possibly 4. if it does not i will likely have 6 mains.

Pretty much. Just quote a person, then copy the current content, edit your earlier post and paste it in there and reply.

unrelated how do you generate those character images of non smash characters getting a character smash screen? sorry just did it again.

 

[SharkLord]

I checked the article where Sakurai allegedly claimed there would be no DLC
http://nintendoeverything.com/sakurai-no-premium-smash-bros-dlc-currently-planned-more/

I can't yet give you an answer

It seems like this was more of a neutral response for the situation. Compared to now, when he's explicitly saying FP2 is the end over and over again... Yeah, I think SSBU's situation is a lot more definite.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

MasterCheef you double posted again. If it helps there’s a + Quote button on the bottom of other people’s posts, you can use that to easily multi quote

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Seeing MasterCheef accidentally double posting gave me an idea.

Someone should Make an optional but recommended tutorial for new SmashBoards users. Guide them on how to use the website.

 

[MasterCheef]

I checked the article where Sakurai allegedly claimed there would be no DLC
http://nintendoeverything.com/sakurai-no-premium-smash-bros-dlc-currently-planned-more/

I understand that DLC could add a lot to the appeal of Smash Bros., and I appreciate that a major part of the excitement for these games come from which characters will appear in the roster, so I think fans could really enjoy DLC that could keep this excitement going. However, I think there might be criticism that we are cutting up content to sell characters one by one, or that we are adding things later that should have been there from the start.

Creating a single fighter involves a huge investment, and we’ve already been giving it our all and investing a lot of work in the characters currently available in the game and, I think it’s an incredible package in terms of the sheer amount of content in the game. But it might be that people may not understand and may think that I am not offering enough by just looking at DLC itself.

In light of this, we always need to weigh up both sides of this topic and carefully consider whether it really is best to have DLC or not.

However, what I can say now about paid DLC is that we aren’t working on anything at the moment. We’ve put all our efforts into making the actual game. Creating DLC would involve large additional costs and require the involvement of a lot of people. I can’t yet give you an answer about whether the price would justify the costs and criticisms mentioned above.

It seems like this was more of a neutral response for the situation. Compared to now, when he's explicitly saying FP2 is the end over and over again... Yeah, I think SSBU's situation is a lot more definite.

uh no. from a development and consumer perspective the way he words everything sounds like there is at least a small mountain to climb.

 

[Goombaic]

uh no. from a development and consumer perspective the way he words everything sounds like there is at least a small mountain to climb.

What is it about this whole segment that makes it hard for a typical consumer to understand that FP11 will be the final character?

 

[Merengue]

I think Porky would be a nice choice for the final character. A niche Nintendo pick would be cool. In his trailer, he will summon Giygas(the embodiment of evil) who will devour both Dharkon and Galeem entirely. Also, it's odd that Giygas doesn't have a spirit despite being one of the most powerful Nintendo villains. Earthbound doesn't have its main villains as spirits.

 

[SharkLord]

uh no. from a development and consumer perspective the way he words everything sounds like there is at least a small mountain to climb.

"I can’t yet give you an answer about whether the price would justify the costs and criticisms mentioned above."
Yes, he notes it's a fair bit of work, but it's not a flat no. Just "I can't say if it's worth it yet." That's less a "No, we're not doing it," and more a "Wait and see."

 

[SNEKeater]

And I don't.

The idea that Nintendo would give a slot to a 3rd party character that's still years away from being finalized sounds ridiculous to me.

It's one thing if Nintendo does it to push their own property, it's another for them to do it for some other company. Especially one of such middling popularity as SMT.

Maybe I'm lost or something, but this was EricTheGamerman's post:

I think the Nahabino situation is people projecting past Fire Emblem frustrations and general "JRPG Swordsman" fatigue combined with the "Smash doesn't end on a hype pick" ever mentality all in one go and then the usual suspects who saw Hero get in next to Dragon Quest 11 and are convinced that a promotion has to happen.

Which is a damn shame because SMT is one of the remaining JRPG franchises that makes a lot of sense and has the historical context to be a great pick on its own without all of those unrelated feelings causing that type of pick to be panned if it does happen. Like if it does happen (Which I unfortunately doubt out of my own pessimism and Persona forever being the more mainstream brother), that would 100% be the biggest closer Smash has ever had still lol.

I agreed with what he said, and I don't even see any part where he seems optimistic or hopeful for Nahobino being CP11. Just that some people will feel he's inevitable because of past precedents with Fire Emblem or the Luminary from DQXI.

Then he proceeds to talk about SMT being a long-running series with it's own legacy and that it is a shame that most of the talk about SMT is now clouded by people discussing if Nahobino would or wouldn't be a shill pick, when regardless of him being the SMT pick or not, the series definitely has other merits to be added to Smash.

Basically, there's no "I think Nahobino is a strong candidate for CP11" here or anything similar to that. So I don't know how to understand your post considering it was a direct answer to me agreeing with his message.

I mean, I think we've already talked plenty about Nahobino being able or not to make it as CP11. Some people think it's highly unlikely if not impossible while others think it isn't out of the question (which is my case), and so on. At this point I don't think anyone's gonna change opinions to be honest.

 

[Megadoomer]

sorry just did it again.

Another way that you can avoid double posting is by hitting +Quote (which refers to multi-quoting, though it's unclear) or Reply to all of the posts that you want to quote before you respond. It's understandable that it happens, especially if someone posts while you're replying and you want to respond to them as well.

 

[RileyXY1]

I think Porky would be a nice choice for the final character. A niche Nintendo pick would be cool. In his trailer, he will summon Giygas(the embodiment of evil) who will devour both Dharkon and Galeem entirely. Also, it's odd that Giygas doesn't have a spirit despite being one of the most powerful Nintendo villains. Earthbound doesn't have its main villains as spirits.

I don't think that's happening until they officially localize Mother 3, which is not happening anytime soon.

 

[Merengue]

I don't think that's happening until they officially localize Mother 3, which is not happening anytime soon.

You right man. eb ports tho

 

[RileyXY1]

Ded srs? If that's so:

My case for Leon;
-Resident Evil is by far the biggest Capcom franchise not in the game yet, but has been dismissed in favor of MH in speculation for some reason
-Most popular and iconic RE protagonist
-Most requested RE character for Smash
-Unlike Kazuya who possessed the Devil Gene to make him more distinguishable from the other FGCs, there's no reason to go after another character for RE because Leon would just be as unique as everyone else
-Sakurai loves to accurately portray the gameplay of a series that's soon getting into Smash, and since Leon is a protagonist he'd be able to fill this niche unlike characters such as Nemesis or Wesker
-Not being in fighting games could actually be a reason as to why Sakurai would pick him, in order to give him a ''chance'' and such but this is more speculative if anything

My case for Shadow:
-Sakurai likes edgy characters (Sephiroth, Dark Pit, Navarre from FE, Iori, etc.)
-2nd most popular character from Sonic
-Serves as a rival (and perfect contrast) for Sonic, a current trend on Ultimate due to the whole Light/Dark theme thing going on
-His popularity as a Smash pick had a significant spike in base game, it's hard to imagine they would go for someone else when FP2's focus seems to mainly be from base game omissions (XC2, ARMS and Tekken to name a few)
-2nd chance theory
-Would have enough gimmicks/unique mechanics to warrant a DLC inclusion, with moves such as Chaos Control (time-stop ability) and Chaos Boost (a comeback mechanic that would serve a similar purpose as Kazuya's rage, by giving him enhanced moves and stats)
-Being praised by the man himself, nuff said

Only thing holding Shadow back would be the AT situation or either party (Nintendo/SEGA) not wanting to play ball, or simply choosing to get another IP instead.

Leon is self-explanatory, but the real reason why I chose these two is because each and every single DLC in FP2 has broken some sort of perceived fanrule, such as
-Spirit promotions
-Mii costumes/waves having to fit an overall theme or follow the character from their respective series
-Everything that was perceived against FF7 or Minecraft
-''Most iconic or important character first'' (Kazuya over Heihachi, but I'll expect the incoming essay)
-''Protagonists first'' (Pythra and Min Min, although the latter is debatable the first one certainly isn't)
-''Mii promotions are impossible'' (Sakurai literally talked about the possibility of making Rex playable, even when he wasn't just a DLC mii costume, but an exclusive for buying the first pass altogether. Keep in mind FP2 wasn't a thing yet when he was made.)
-''No second unique 3rd party fighters from the same franchise as DLC'' (Sephy says hi)
-Sakurai didn't mention Spring Man's status as an AT, and I'm pretty sure if the ARMS director had asked him to choose Spring Man instead, the madlad wouldn't have refused


In short, most people would have called me a madman had I predicted all of the characters present in FP2 just as I try to do with the last one, but here we are.

RE spirit event largely sits in a grey area, when they didn't show us the amount of fighters that were included in FP2 yet. It's quite possible that negotations fell through at first, but somehow went smoothly afterwards with the spirit event being a side effect from that (or a red herring a la Heihachi as you may call it).

Edit: I forgot to say this, but the 3rd party franchises included in FP2 have been pretty big deals overall, not to mention that unlike FP1 (that started on a big note with Joker) this one went for Min Min straight up, which is what makes me optimistic about the last one potentially being a well-received/crowdpleaser inclusion.

I don't really see Shadow getting in except as a clone of Sonic. And I don't see a clone happening in FP2 unless almost the entire budget for FP2 was exhausted on the other five (or six) fighters. I also don't see RE happening because the creature designs are very grotesque and feature a lot of body horror, which would result in ratings boards upping Ultimate up to a higher rating.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

I don't really see Shadow getting in except as a clone of Sonic. And I don't see a clone happening in FP2 unless almost the entire budget for FP2 was exhausted on the other five (or six) fighters. I also don't see RE happening because the creature designs are very grotesque and feature a lot of body horror, which would result in ratings boards upping Ultimate up to a higher rating.

Leon is a protagonist. Not a monster. If the monster designs are that big an issue (which I don’t believe they are), it still doesn’t matter.

As for Shadow, the basis for your argument is that he’d be a clone. Which we don’t know. Would he work as a clone? Yes. Would he be a clone? We don’t know. We all thought Isabelle would be an echo. We were wrong.

 

[Schnee117]

Leon is a protagonist. Not a monster. If the monster designs are that big an issue (which I don’t believe they are), it still doesn’t matter.

The monster designs are a wide mixture across the board. Some are perfectly fine for Smash, some would only need small edits, others just wouldn't get in at all.

 

[MasterCheef]

What is it about this whole segment that makes it hard for a typical consumer to understand that FP11 will be the final character?

It is a a good business sense & one of faith issue my fellow smasher. I follow the money which is almost always right. I don't take words into account when the money says something different.

 

[Inferno7]

I don't really see Shadow getting in except as a clone of Sonic. And I don't see a clone happening in FP2 unless almost the entire budget for FP2 was exhausted on the other five (or six) fighters. I also don't see RE happening because the creature designs are very grotesque and feature a lot of body horror, which would result in ratings boards upping Ultimate up to a higher rating.

No offense, but I'm tired of people throwing this around everytime he gets brought up

-Every single fangame or mod that came before Ultimate gave him his own moveset
-Has enough merits and abilities to warrant a unique moveset, at least more than someone like, idk Ken or Richter
-The only reason I've seen as to why people think he should be a clone is because of gameplay similarities with Sonic in some games, and Shadow in particular isn't the only one affected by this
-Absolutely no one expected him to be a clone before Ultimate, idk why this is the case rn
-His most iconic move is something that neither Sonic or any current playable character in the roster has
-Sonic Battle exists

As the comment above said, if someone like Isabelle (who doesn't have any sort of fighting ability in her home game) can be a semi-clone, Shadow can easily be his own character.

I'm really curious as to why people think this way

Leon is a protagonist. Not a monster. If the monster designs are that big an issue (which I don’t believe they are), it still doesn’t matter.

If we got any RE monsters it would either be as spirits or background characters, which imo shouldn't be an issue
We have stuff like Gomorrah and Carmilla in the game after all

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

As for Shadow, the basis for your argument is that he’d be a clone. Which we don’t know. Would he work as a clone? Yes. Would he be a clone? We don’t know. We all thought Isabelle would be an echo. We were wrong.

...Well, yeah. Isabelle wasn't an echo. She was a gameplay clone. Different things. Same with Pyra and Mythra. Gameplay clones. Not an Echo. It's been confirmed even Sakurai treats them as different things. Dr. Mario isn't an Echo, and is compared to Ken, an Echo. The comparison was to point out the difference is mostly arbitrary(which is true. Like, not even the same stats applies for Echoes, with Ken having some different ones. He only shares the Weight and Bodyshape with Ryu. Dr. Mario is... actually the same thing, but much more different moves/stats(more than Ken has to Ryu, anyway) from Mario. You can see why he treats it as arbitrary, but in the end acknowledges they're different categories. Dr. Mario really only seems to not take the Echo label just cause he was called a clone in Melee at best(or it could be unlike Ken, he's much further off from Mario, but even then, it gets arbitrary on what is considered "too far"). Quite literally the big thing preventing the Echo status is the same bodyshape(and arguably weight differences. Though worth noting Dr. Mario had a different weight in the PAL version of Melee, but that means little).

Shadow's like any other Echo. They could be an Echo or could be changed up to be a regular Gameplay Clone. Or Semi-Clone, or barely can be called a clone(hi, Wolf!). Etc. I don't mind either way of what he is as long as he's playable. Just no Daisy-tier bad. When your only difference is freaking hurtboxes, you need more time in the oven. Richter isn't much better, and Dark Samus only has a different element consistently, making her animations the only cool part otherwise. But who knows if they'll separate them a bit further. Maybe different Final Smashes for the Belmonts, or slight damage values. Daisy at one point got an error with them accidentally changing her Turnips. That'd still be good~

Of course, I'm not disagreeing with your other point. No, we don't know he'd be an Echo or even anything below Wolf-Tier. I imagine if he's something like base game, he'll be very similar to Sonic, even if it's mostly the gameplay style and a few animations, but actual different moves otherwise. A super speedster like that using a hit and run strategy isn't that odd to reuse either. It's just Shadow has great potential for more than that, being he's known for being "very powerful" canonically, not just fast, heh.