Mushroomguy12
Smash Hero
So... is anyone currently watching the Playstation State of Play? Anything interesting to talk about?
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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II
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Inferno7
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While I think the lack of LM3 spirits is suspicious, Nintendo may have just settled with base game representation, which honestly, ain't all that bad (we got E. Gadd, Poltergust and King Boo, not to mention a whole stage).
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RoboFist
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As much as I love Smash as a game (and trust me, I really do), I'll admit that I'm even more fascinated by it from a historical standpoint. I'm obsessed with the very few things we've learned about Sakurai's choices (the small handful of the pitch documents from Smash 4, interviews, Famitsu columns, etc) and have been dying for some sort of oral history of the franchise for years.
No joke, video games have a big problem with history documentation. You can find hundreds of books and documentaries that go into incredible detail about the history of TV, film, music, comic books, etc. But aside from a few surface-level books and the smattering of behind-the-scenes snippets in art books, video game history is dangerously ignored. It's weird that Nintendo specifically seems adverse to recording and releasing stuff like that (except when it comes to Mario and Pokemon).
It's why I have a huge amount of respect for PushDustin/Source Gaming and other fan translators. They're giving us a peek into the tiny window of Nintendo's development when Nintendo themselves seem to refuse to.
What's nuts is that nobody in power there believes that an in-depth book about Smash Bros. would sell, despite the fact that...yeah, that's an absolute no-brainer.
I feel like some of us need to just pull a Thanos and do it ourselves haha
GilTheGreat19
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King Boo would be cool IG
Imagine a sequel to the Belmonts' trailer, but this time Luigi tries to save THEM from King Boo (of course getting wrecked in the process)
Imagine a sequel to the Belmonts' trailer, but this time Luigi tries to save THEM from King Boo (of course getting wrecked in the process)
Guynamednelson
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It kind of feels like King Boo supporters are acting like Smash doesn't represent LM3 at all when Smash literally gave us a hint that LM3 is coming via the Simon trailer.
7NATOR
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I actually do agree Bayonetta was likely not chosen from the Ballot. What I do think is that she probably was chosen in response to the Bayonetta game and fan reception to the character
I'm sure Bayonetta was a possibility being considered, but there is a difference between plans and being greenlit. Plans can fall through. If Bayonetta 2 had flopped, and Bayonetta just seemed to be unpopular character, I doubt Nintendo would have greenlit development on her
I think Nintendo found reason to believe that Bayonetta would do good on the Ballot given the circumstances. It's unknown if the actual results are true or not, but I do think Bayo did end up doing good.
Personally I'm sure Sonic did really well on the ballot, but you also got to remember certain things
-The Base Roster was tight in terms of Newcomer size. The Base roster ended up being the least amount of Newcomers in the series, even less than Smash 64, and 5/11 of the characters were Echo Fighters.
-Characters like Steve, Sephiroth had to wait till FP2 to even be in. Steve especially is probably the character that is the biggest deal added to Ultimate, yet he had to wait this long to be in
-FP2 was finalized with all the characters already chosen. just hypothetically if Another Sonic character is in, Sephiroth isn't getting in over that character, but they get in at Same time
This is something I'll admit to regretting, but I shouldn't have been so adamant about Another Sonic character (in my case Shadow) being in the base roster. I probably should have taken into account how little Newcomers we'd actually get and also the increased effort 3rd party Newcomers usually get.
At this point the only way the absence of Sonic newcomer speaks about the state of the series getting a New character is if you believe Sonic should have gotten an Echo and/or Only could have gotten an echo. I and many others are not operating around that sentiment, and I'm pretty sure Sega and Nintendo probably aren't operating around that sentiment either
Now with the base roster out of the way, Does Sonic have a good chance to be CP11 is the question to be asking, and that is something you seem to be asking also, so Here's my thought process
-I know when people think to what Sega is pushing lately, people go to Shin Megami Tensi V (since Atlus is owned by Sega), since that does scream more advertisement type character, and the thought that Sega might be trying to make their Smaller franchises bigger. I also think the Fact Nintendo puts alot of focus on the game in the Directs probably is important
But you also got to remember that Sega is also Pushing the Sonic not just this year, but like Every year, but this recent years have been the biggest push, and that's gonna factor in to the 2019-2021 timeframe where FP2 was being decided, finalized, and looking to be developed in
Sonic was getting a Blockbuster Movie around the time FP2 was being finalized (of course we can't use the success of the movie since the movie came out after the FP2 was finalized)
Sonic's 30th anniversary was known to be a thing in 2021. We all know that Sega always tries their hardest to celebrate Sonic's Anniversary, for better (SA2, Generations) or Worse (Sonic 06), so we expect Sonic to be relevant in this year, which is the year where FP2 is set to finish
Sonic is getting new Netflix series in Sonic Prime, which Sega themselves said was more geared towards spreading the Sonic brand, instead of making a profit.
Sonic is also getting all these collaborations lately. Ninjala, Fallguys, Olympics 2021, and Most importantly, Minecraft.
The Important part to note of all of these is that Sega is trying to Make Sonic as big as it can be, and even if Nintendo didn't know the exact details of everything, Sega would know and likely let Nintendo know about that as well
-Sonic is a Big, Relevant Franchise. If we looking at the 3rd party Franchises being represented in FP2, which are Minecraft, Final Fantasy (7), and Tekken, then Sonic is in their Leagues
Remember that FP2 didn't have to be a thing, and Nintendo doesn't usually keep DLC going this long. For Nintendo to greenlit the development of 6 more Fighters after FP1, they had to go ahead and see all the Fighters as worthy of Development, factoring the Costs of the characters, the Appeal of the characters, the amount of time needed to develop the characters, etc
Minecraft and Tekken were Franchises that Nintendo had prioritized to be DLC, which is why Nintendo was named as huge factor into these Franchises being represented in the DLC. These might have been the "1 or 2 extra Fighters" Sakurai was talking about when it came to the Original plan of DLC after FP1
Sephiroth didn't have Nintendo namedropped in the reason for why he got in, but Considering the Pedigree of the FF7 Game, the Character Himself, and also that FF7 is especially relevant now with the Remake, If it is true that It was intially going to only be 1 or 2 extra fighters after FP1, Sephiroth is a big reason for the DLC to be even more expansive after FP1
and Another Sonic character is the Same way. As much as Sonic gets clowned on for it's quality, the Foundation of the Franchise is really strong, and is a big reason that not only was it able to survive catastrophes like Sonic 06 and Rise of Lyric, but that it's still a popular franchise to this day
Sonic content on the Nintendo Youtube channel gets lots of views. The Sonic Mania Launch Trailer is one of the highest viewed videos on Nintendo's Channel, Sonic Forces, while definitely beat in the views by Mania, still got lots of Views among the pedigree of Nintendo videos. Sonic Colors Ultimate and Sonic in Minecraft were one of the very few Nintendo videos to get 1 Million views recently
Sonic Forces was at the time of June 2020, the 2nd most downloaded game on PS Plus of all time. Forces, along with Mania, Generations, and Team sonic Racing are the reason Sonic was financially the biggest earner for Sega in the quarter of March of 2021, despite Sonic not having any new games
There is still alot of Interest in Sonic, and new people getting into Sonic every day. There is appeal on all Sides, You got Nintendo Audience, PC Audience, Sony Audience, Xbox Audience, even Non Gaming Audience with other forms of media like Cartoons, Movies, Comics, etc
You got interest both inside the Smash Community. Tails, Shadow, & Knuckles have been popular requests throughout Smashes's history. in Some areas Tails took over, Knuckles Took over, Shadow took over, but the general gist is that another Sonic character has consistently been some of the top requests for Smash. Right now Eggman is taking over, but there is still alot of hype for Tails, and Shadow (despite him being an Assist and such)
You even got some interest from Japan. The Sonic Adventure Games, Heroes, 06, and Unleashed got some popularity in Japan, a Region where Sonic is way more niche in comparison (even if Sonic is still well known there too). in a Famitsu Article in 2017 asking readers for the top 100 games of all time, Sonic Adventure 2 was really high on the list. Here is a look if you want
Famitsu readers choose the top 100 best games of all time - Nintendo Everything
That's why the Few Japanese based polls I've seen have sometimes have had Shadow on them. The Polls were kind of niche, but the fact still stands
Pretty much there is appeal on all sides when it comes to Sonic, and that is the important thing when it comes to Nintendo expanding the FP2 to 6 characters. They made sure to pick 6 Characters that not only add to the Fighter Pass, but really can stand on their own as Individual DLC also
and I know many other characters can fit that criteria, but here is something to consider
-Nintendo with the Fighter DLC has used the Companies that are already close to them for DLC, especially with FP2 has there's been no new Companies introduced into Fighter Pass 2
Nintendo does want to choose the Biggest franchises it can get it's hands on, but they also factor in the ease of use of getting the I.P, the Costs, Development time, etc. Does Sega abide by all of this
Well I will say there is very little reason why they wouldn't go to Sonic for Another Character, in the same vain they went to Final Fantasy for another Character. Sonic has already established is a Franchise that is Big, Relevant, and has alot of appeal on all sides.
But Sonic is also a franchise that seems very easy to Collabing with, as can be seen inside of Smash and outside of Smash. Nintendo has been working with Sega since Brawl, and the longest of the 3rd parties represented in Smash. The experience in working with the Sonic content in Smash should help them in expanding that content through DLC, in the same vein that it likely helped with Sephiroth, since the team were already experienced from working with Cloud
I think a Major factor to be considered also is that besides Eggman, every one of the Main Sonic Candidates use Sonic has a base in terms of body structure, which means even further that they should already be familiar with how to Animate and Model the characters from Sonic, since they are very familiar with Sonic Himself. Plus you can even see this with the Assist Trophies and the Background characters also
I hate to throw shade, but if you compare this to something like the idea of Nahobino being CP11, it does put things into perspective. Shin Megami Tensi is a much niche franchise than Sonic, but it is also a franchise that is unfamiliar currently in regards to Smash, even though Atlus is already on board thanks to Persona being in the game
Nahobino in particular is going to be harder to represent in the game than just including in another Sonic character. Because the Character is so new, it's hard to gauge how to represent the character because of the lack of assets currently unavailable. Of course the idea is still a possibility, and I don't want to say that it's impossible or bring down the idea, but I'm bring things into perspective
-Now in regards to whether Sonic is Deconfirmed from the DLC due to various factors
The Anniversary spirit event is something to consider, but to be honest, I don't think it should be a killer. There were no new Spirits represented in the event, and while we don't know the inner workings of Sega and Nintendo, it's likely that even if a Sonic character was in FP2, they still want to have the event not miss the anniversary date if a Sonic character was running late. Plus we have seen that Fire Emblem got Spirit events when Three Houses was already known to be finalized for FP1
Assist Trophy is it's own argument that can be it's own Essay, but I think it's best to keep an open mind. The time it was decided to have Shadow and Knuckles be Assist Trophies and the time for FP2 deciding is 2 very different time periods. Plus you have to understand that in the case of Shadow, Shadow can't just be absent from the Assist line up.
DLC was not factored in for a majority of the Base game Development, as DLC was only factored in sometime around or after January of 2018, when the Base game started much earlier. The base roster could have been it, and Shadow couldn't be on the roster, but so couldn't characters like Steve and Sephiroth, and unlike those 2, who had no Perviousness appearances to keep up for Smash Ultimate, Shadow has been an Assist since Brawl, and just having him be absent for at the time hypothetical DLC that may have not happened is probably not something they wanted to risk
The Sonic Mii Costumes are in a grey area since they came in the 1st pack of FP1. The Heihachi Mii situation also gives much ore leeway to the idea of Another Sonic character being included in spite of the Mii Costumes.
For the Argument about why they would have Another Sonic character be the last character, considering the amount of Appeal they would have and such, well it's a bit weird
What I will say is that the positions of Steve, Sephiroth, and Kazuya likely wouldn't have changed. Steve is definitely the character that Nintendo banked on having the most appeal and appealing to he most New Audiences, which is why he was Early. Kazuya fits E3 of this year because he's the character that's gonna appeal the most to audiences outside of Nintendo, and E3 is a place where Non-Nintendo gamers are gonna be watching the direct and such. Sephiroth had Game Awards Appeal, especially with FF7R being there
Another Sonic character might also have some interesting stuff going on in terms of Mechanics that might need good amount of Development or Balancing to work on, that would make them the last character. I also think that they may have also made sure to have a Sonic character in 2021 to help 2021 be the year of the Sonic anniversary, instead of having them be really early.
-Sega might be implicated in being heavy represented in CP11, since they have not really gotten much content at all in FP2. No Mii's or extra spirits and anything. They may be saving something, but it remains to be seen
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In any case, I think the case for Another Sonic Character is very strong actually. There is more I could have put here, but I think this is the gist of everything. So please keep that faith alive because there are very GOOD reasons why another Sonic character can show up as the Last character of FP2.
I'm sure Bayonetta was a possibility being considered, but there is a difference between plans and being greenlit. Plans can fall through. If Bayonetta 2 had flopped, and Bayonetta just seemed to be unpopular character, I doubt Nintendo would have greenlit development on her
I think Nintendo found reason to believe that Bayonetta would do good on the Ballot given the circumstances. It's unknown if the actual results are true or not, but I do think Bayo did end up doing good.
Wait till after CP11 is revealed to say whether were wrong or not.
Personally I'm sure Sonic did really well on the ballot, but you also got to remember certain things
-The Base Roster was tight in terms of Newcomer size. The Base roster ended up being the least amount of Newcomers in the series, even less than Smash 64, and 5/11 of the characters were Echo Fighters.
-Characters like Steve, Sephiroth had to wait till FP2 to even be in. Steve especially is probably the character that is the biggest deal added to Ultimate, yet he had to wait this long to be in
-FP2 was finalized with all the characters already chosen. just hypothetically if Another Sonic character is in, Sephiroth isn't getting in over that character, but they get in at Same time
This is something I'll admit to regretting, but I shouldn't have been so adamant about Another Sonic character (in my case Shadow) being in the base roster. I probably should have taken into account how little Newcomers we'd actually get and also the increased effort 3rd party Newcomers usually get.
At this point the only way the absence of Sonic newcomer speaks about the state of the series getting a New character is if you believe Sonic should have gotten an Echo and/or Only could have gotten an echo. I and many others are not operating around that sentiment, and I'm pretty sure Sega and Nintendo probably aren't operating around that sentiment either
Now with the base roster out of the way, Does Sonic have a good chance to be CP11 is the question to be asking, and that is something you seem to be asking also, so Here's my thought process
-I know when people think to what Sega is pushing lately, people go to Shin Megami Tensi V (since Atlus is owned by Sega), since that does scream more advertisement type character, and the thought that Sega might be trying to make their Smaller franchises bigger. I also think the Fact Nintendo puts alot of focus on the game in the Directs probably is important
But you also got to remember that Sega is also Pushing the Sonic not just this year, but like Every year, but this recent years have been the biggest push, and that's gonna factor in to the 2019-2021 timeframe where FP2 was being decided, finalized, and looking to be developed in
Sonic was getting a Blockbuster Movie around the time FP2 was being finalized (of course we can't use the success of the movie since the movie came out after the FP2 was finalized)
Sonic's 30th anniversary was known to be a thing in 2021. We all know that Sega always tries their hardest to celebrate Sonic's Anniversary, for better (SA2, Generations) or Worse (Sonic 06), so we expect Sonic to be relevant in this year, which is the year where FP2 is set to finish
Sonic is getting new Netflix series in Sonic Prime, which Sega themselves said was more geared towards spreading the Sonic brand, instead of making a profit.
Sonic is also getting all these collaborations lately. Ninjala, Fallguys, Olympics 2021, and Most importantly, Minecraft.
The Important part to note of all of these is that Sega is trying to Make Sonic as big as it can be, and even if Nintendo didn't know the exact details of everything, Sega would know and likely let Nintendo know about that as well
-Sonic is a Big, Relevant Franchise. If we looking at the 3rd party Franchises being represented in FP2, which are Minecraft, Final Fantasy (7), and Tekken, then Sonic is in their Leagues
Remember that FP2 didn't have to be a thing, and Nintendo doesn't usually keep DLC going this long. For Nintendo to greenlit the development of 6 more Fighters after FP1, they had to go ahead and see all the Fighters as worthy of Development, factoring the Costs of the characters, the Appeal of the characters, the amount of time needed to develop the characters, etc
Minecraft and Tekken were Franchises that Nintendo had prioritized to be DLC, which is why Nintendo was named as huge factor into these Franchises being represented in the DLC. These might have been the "1 or 2 extra Fighters" Sakurai was talking about when it came to the Original plan of DLC after FP1
Sephiroth didn't have Nintendo namedropped in the reason for why he got in, but Considering the Pedigree of the FF7 Game, the Character Himself, and also that FF7 is especially relevant now with the Remake, If it is true that It was intially going to only be 1 or 2 extra fighters after FP1, Sephiroth is a big reason for the DLC to be even more expansive after FP1
and Another Sonic character is the Same way. As much as Sonic gets clowned on for it's quality, the Foundation of the Franchise is really strong, and is a big reason that not only was it able to survive catastrophes like Sonic 06 and Rise of Lyric, but that it's still a popular franchise to this day
Sonic content on the Nintendo Youtube channel gets lots of views. The Sonic Mania Launch Trailer is one of the highest viewed videos on Nintendo's Channel, Sonic Forces, while definitely beat in the views by Mania, still got lots of Views among the pedigree of Nintendo videos. Sonic Colors Ultimate and Sonic in Minecraft were one of the very few Nintendo videos to get 1 Million views recently
Sonic Forces was at the time of June 2020, the 2nd most downloaded game on PS Plus of all time. Forces, along with Mania, Generations, and Team sonic Racing are the reason Sonic was financially the biggest earner for Sega in the quarter of March of 2021, despite Sonic not having any new games
There is still alot of Interest in Sonic, and new people getting into Sonic every day. There is appeal on all Sides, You got Nintendo Audience, PC Audience, Sony Audience, Xbox Audience, even Non Gaming Audience with other forms of media like Cartoons, Movies, Comics, etc
You got interest both inside the Smash Community. Tails, Shadow, & Knuckles have been popular requests throughout Smashes's history. in Some areas Tails took over, Knuckles Took over, Shadow took over, but the general gist is that another Sonic character has consistently been some of the top requests for Smash. Right now Eggman is taking over, but there is still alot of hype for Tails, and Shadow (despite him being an Assist and such)
You even got some interest from Japan. The Sonic Adventure Games, Heroes, 06, and Unleashed got some popularity in Japan, a Region where Sonic is way more niche in comparison (even if Sonic is still well known there too). in a Famitsu Article in 2017 asking readers for the top 100 games of all time, Sonic Adventure 2 was really high on the list. Here is a look if you want
Famitsu readers choose the top 100 best games of all time - Nintendo Everything
That's why the Few Japanese based polls I've seen have sometimes have had Shadow on them. The Polls were kind of niche, but the fact still stands
Pretty much there is appeal on all sides when it comes to Sonic, and that is the important thing when it comes to Nintendo expanding the FP2 to 6 characters. They made sure to pick 6 Characters that not only add to the Fighter Pass, but really can stand on their own as Individual DLC also
and I know many other characters can fit that criteria, but here is something to consider
-Nintendo with the Fighter DLC has used the Companies that are already close to them for DLC, especially with FP2 has there's been no new Companies introduced into Fighter Pass 2
Nintendo does want to choose the Biggest franchises it can get it's hands on, but they also factor in the ease of use of getting the I.P, the Costs, Development time, etc. Does Sega abide by all of this
Well I will say there is very little reason why they wouldn't go to Sonic for Another Character, in the same vain they went to Final Fantasy for another Character. Sonic has already established is a Franchise that is Big, Relevant, and has alot of appeal on all sides.
But Sonic is also a franchise that seems very easy to Collabing with, as can be seen inside of Smash and outside of Smash. Nintendo has been working with Sega since Brawl, and the longest of the 3rd parties represented in Smash. The experience in working with the Sonic content in Smash should help them in expanding that content through DLC, in the same vein that it likely helped with Sephiroth, since the team were already experienced from working with Cloud
I think a Major factor to be considered also is that besides Eggman, every one of the Main Sonic Candidates use Sonic has a base in terms of body structure, which means even further that they should already be familiar with how to Animate and Model the characters from Sonic, since they are very familiar with Sonic Himself. Plus you can even see this with the Assist Trophies and the Background characters also
I hate to throw shade, but if you compare this to something like the idea of Nahobino being CP11, it does put things into perspective. Shin Megami Tensi is a much niche franchise than Sonic, but it is also a franchise that is unfamiliar currently in regards to Smash, even though Atlus is already on board thanks to Persona being in the game
Nahobino in particular is going to be harder to represent in the game than just including in another Sonic character. Because the Character is so new, it's hard to gauge how to represent the character because of the lack of assets currently unavailable. Of course the idea is still a possibility, and I don't want to say that it's impossible or bring down the idea, but I'm bring things into perspective
-Now in regards to whether Sonic is Deconfirmed from the DLC due to various factors
The Anniversary spirit event is something to consider, but to be honest, I don't think it should be a killer. There were no new Spirits represented in the event, and while we don't know the inner workings of Sega and Nintendo, it's likely that even if a Sonic character was in FP2, they still want to have the event not miss the anniversary date if a Sonic character was running late. Plus we have seen that Fire Emblem got Spirit events when Three Houses was already known to be finalized for FP1
Assist Trophy is it's own argument that can be it's own Essay, but I think it's best to keep an open mind. The time it was decided to have Shadow and Knuckles be Assist Trophies and the time for FP2 deciding is 2 very different time periods. Plus you have to understand that in the case of Shadow, Shadow can't just be absent from the Assist line up.
DLC was not factored in for a majority of the Base game Development, as DLC was only factored in sometime around or after January of 2018, when the Base game started much earlier. The base roster could have been it, and Shadow couldn't be on the roster, but so couldn't characters like Steve and Sephiroth, and unlike those 2, who had no Perviousness appearances to keep up for Smash Ultimate, Shadow has been an Assist since Brawl, and just having him be absent for at the time hypothetical DLC that may have not happened is probably not something they wanted to risk
The Sonic Mii Costumes are in a grey area since they came in the 1st pack of FP1. The Heihachi Mii situation also gives much ore leeway to the idea of Another Sonic character being included in spite of the Mii Costumes.
For the Argument about why they would have Another Sonic character be the last character, considering the amount of Appeal they would have and such, well it's a bit weird
What I will say is that the positions of Steve, Sephiroth, and Kazuya likely wouldn't have changed. Steve is definitely the character that Nintendo banked on having the most appeal and appealing to he most New Audiences, which is why he was Early. Kazuya fits E3 of this year because he's the character that's gonna appeal the most to audiences outside of Nintendo, and E3 is a place where Non-Nintendo gamers are gonna be watching the direct and such. Sephiroth had Game Awards Appeal, especially with FF7R being there
Another Sonic character might also have some interesting stuff going on in terms of Mechanics that might need good amount of Development or Balancing to work on, that would make them the last character. I also think that they may have also made sure to have a Sonic character in 2021 to help 2021 be the year of the Sonic anniversary, instead of having them be really early.
-Sega might be implicated in being heavy represented in CP11, since they have not really gotten much content at all in FP2. No Mii's or extra spirits and anything. They may be saving something, but it remains to be seen
-----------------------------
In any case, I think the case for Another Sonic Character is very strong actually. There is more I could have put here, but I think this is the gist of everything. So please keep that faith alive because there are very GOOD reasons why another Sonic character can show up as the Last character of FP2.
DarthEnderX
Smash Hero
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While I love that design, I think the AoC design is FAR more likely. And unlike the HW design, it was probably made by Nintendo.
There's also the possibility of AoC Impa being a Sheik Echo.
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Theguy123
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Was just thinking and it came to me with all this FPS talk that Bethesda have now got 2 mii costumes in this fighter pass with the last round of mii costumes giving us the 2nd. What if caccomallow was real and it was for doomguy.
It would explain why No one came forward to say they made it. Also I don’t think it was even debunked, Everyone just assumed it was fake because Geno got mii’d and mallow never came but with now 2 Bethesda mii costumes what if it was real and was meant for doomguy.
It would explain why No one came forward to say they made it. Also I don’t think it was even debunked, Everyone just assumed it was fake because Geno got mii’d and mallow never came but with now 2 Bethesda mii costumes what if it was real and was meant for doomguy.
XorahnGaia
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I watched it with some friends and... well let's just say that it met the standard of the past States of Play.
They showed a bunch of indies, a new trailer for the Demon Slayer game made by Sega and Lost Judgement, the showed the new content of the Director's Cut of Death Stranding and then they ended the presentation with 8 minutes of Deathloop.
I was hoping that they would at least show FF XVI since its absence at Square E3 presentation was a little suspicious, but I guess they're saving it for later.
Guynamednelson
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please don't
StrangeKitten
Smash Lord
Something I also just thought of: a Smash book could maybe even give us insight into characters who were considered or cut very early into development that we currently don't know about. Sometimes I wonder who else may have been considered and if the handful of scrapped characters we know about is all of them or if there were more.
DarthEnderX
Smash Hero
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I like how you keep repeating this like it's your one big piece of evidence, even though almost nobody actually cares about The Game Awards. Most people only watch it for the trailers.
And it didn't even WIN, and you're still like "Well this is proof it could have won the poll!"
I'm really looking forward to the next Ballot, when Nintendo tells us the the #1 character(*among realizable characters) in Europe was the Ghost of Tsushima or Jesse from Control...
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Theguy123
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It also helps that the Sephiroph trailer shows they did at least hold talks for FP2 and that we don’t have a rivals Tournament event yet even though we have plenty of characters and their rivals in smash.
SNEKeater
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It's heavily rumoured there's going to be another state of play, a bigger one, during summer. August I guess.
Also because Sony themselves have said they will have more updates soon during the summer, so there's that.
This one was promoted as a SoP focused on indies and Deathloop, so I'd assume the big stuff is for later, including FFXVI. Yoshi-P said back then we would have an update of the game this year and considering the game is a PlayStation console exclusive I'd expect the next trailer to be at one of their events.
Evil Trapezium
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For another Sonic character, I just don't think it makes sense to celebrate Sonic's 30th anniversary and then put Shadow, Tails or Eggman into Smash Bros. Like at that point, you'd be celebrating that character instead of the central character the anniversary was made for. It's just like when people thought Waluigi or Geno would be added to Smash Bros on Mario's 35th anniversary. It's counter productive.
LiveStudioAudience
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Well I mean if we're being fair, its technically Robotnik/Eggman's 30th anniversary too this year.
7NATOR
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Like with Sephiroth, the central character is not gonna be ignored. Cloud still was prominent in the Sephiroth DLC, including getting a new Final Smash
I will say think of Eggman, Tails, Shadow being added in as Compliments to Sonic, rather than strictly taking the focus away. Plus even then, The anniversary is only important in both establishing that the Sonic brand itself is still alive, and perhaps the timing of when to reveal the Sonic character. It's not a main reason why Another Sonic character would be chosen
SNEKeater
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Random but I'm just gonna post this cool fan art I just found, featuring Ryu, Kyo Kusanagi and Sol Badguy.
I'm going to recreate this image in 2030 when Smash 6 adds Sol and Kyo to the game.
🔥 Ryu, Sol-Badguy and Kyo Kusanagi drawn by Motoki Yoshihara. @Yoshihara_Game #guiltygear #streetfighter #snk #kof #fightinggames #fgc pic.twitter.com/tKKfGR3lCW
— 天 Fighters Generation (@Fighters_Gen) July 8, 2021
I'm going to recreate this image in 2030 when Smash 6 adds Sol and Kyo to the game.
Phoenix Douchebag
Smash Lord
Me who plays as the kid Links, Lucas, Sonic and Banjo:
Do you think i care about that? This is the punishment towards the non-believers, they doubted the Belmont's prowess and laughed at the leaks of Simon's coming, this is a fair way of making them suffer if i say so myself.
Something I think few people notice is what I call the big 3:
- Sonic
- Ryu
- Cloud
These seem to be the three Sakurai is proud of most.
In Cloud’s reveal trailers, he first faced the other 2 and Mario.
In Cloud’s presentation, he showed off the victory pose with those four as well.
They were the very first 3 guests confirmed to return in Ultimate before they would reveal Everyone was Returning. The others revealed before Snake seem to be a montage of “You knew these guys would return”
The three make up the third party side in Joker’s trailer (Mario, Link and Kirby make of the Nintendo side) when Futaba says “So Many Legendary Fighters! Awesome!”
Since Sakurai scripts these trailers, I think it shows he has respect to these guys the most. Ryu and Cloud already have their characters, so I think Sonic may get another depending on SEGA’s intent (which looks good right now)
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Theguy123
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Isn’t it also shadows as well. There’s basically a case for all 3 being upgraded. They all represent sonics anniversary well whilst tying into their anniversaries/birthdays as well.
Evil Trapezium
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I don't know. Sonic is eponymous with the series and anniversary so bringing another character in the spot light would take away from that. Meanwhile Cloud is treated as a one off character so the Final Fantasy series does not revolve around him like it does with Sonic. You'd see people talking about either Tails, Shadow or Eggman in Smash instead of Sonic and I don't think Sega would want that. There is a lot of focus around Sonic on Sonic's anniversary with him making guest appearances in other games and media focusing solely on Sonic with other characters barely making an appearance.
GilTheGreat19
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activates remembering bot like the Reddit one
KneeOfJustice99
Smash Champion
I can see this actually being a really good point, but this will probably come across as rude... the first thing I instantly thought was that the last character would be Classic Sonic for this exact reason >:3
Theguy123
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Ehhh I don’t think sega will care about one upping sonics anniversary by dropping another sonic rep as dlc in smash. They literally played the shadow the hedgehog game theme at the sonic orchestra and it wasn’t even randomly dropped, it was one of the last 3 songs played and it got a lot more attention than a lot of the sonic songs so they’re definitely okay with 1 upping sonic.
Twilord
Smash Ace
I thought we agreed not to interact because you can't handle concepts from outside your echo chamber, and would rather believe Sakurai lied to you personally?
I get it, you can't accept the fact it was one of the best games on the Wii-U, quite possibly the best at the time, and thus had the benefit of relevancy bias. Move on.
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It's pretty much due to the format. A lot of games were released on now discontinued formats (not just old consoles, but also formats like DOS which very few born post-1995 have even had the chance to grow up with). When it comes to films, books etc... well there's only one or a few formats that one really needs to worry about. While there are a lot of lost media, games are particularily prone to this due to there being more possibly obscure formats. Then again, BBC for example did have a notably lax stance re: documentation in the 60s-70s when they thought that film reel was best re-used: as a result, a lot of older Dr. Who episodes and other shows are lost.
Of course, it doesn't help that Nintendo's not invested a lot in storing its history past the highlights. While there are only a few games that have escaped their documentation (as might've been the case with StarTropics), they do have an history of opposing emulation even if it meant game preservation (probably because that would mean less people playing on their machines, a constant fear from Nintendo's PoV). That probably extends to game development too, where Nintendo's long been an contractor-based organization and one that has prized secrecy during development. And ancillary stuff like the promo fight between the costumed mascots Nintendo did for Smash 64? Well, no one within Nintendo recorded that, so we're left with still images so far.
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LiveStudioAudience
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I can somewhat see the point about certain characters taking away the spotlight from Sonic, but as mentioned Eggman as well as Tails are basically synonymous with the franchise at this point and the latter almost as old as Sonic himself. I mean the amount of games with Sonic but without Miles Prower is a remarkably small list overall and two are almost always interact in the games proper.
Its telling that even the live action movie didn't finish its running time without at least having Tails cameo.
It also helps explain why there's never really any outrage at stuff like the gigaleak from fan communities. Leaks like that are one of the few real insights we have into the production of various famous games, ones that might have taken decades (if ever) to come out from Nintendo officially.
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GilTheGreat19
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I don't care how unlikely it is.
But Ubisoft, for all that is good, give us a Just Dance stage
But Ubisoft, for all that is good, give us a Just Dance stage
Twilord
Smash Ace
I don't care how unlikely it is.
But Ubisoft, for all that is good, give us a Just Dance stage
I really don't want to support Ubisoft, to the point I am not buying the sequel to one of my favourite Switch games so far - but I must admit it is weird that isn't a thing yet.
Evil Trapezium
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Were they okay or did they think they made a mistake?
Don't answer that, it's a rhetorical question.
But again, it's Sonic's 30th anniversary, the series is called Sonic The Hedgehog and with games like Sonic The Hedgehog, Sonic The Hedgehog 2, Sonic The Hedgehog 3, Sonic CD, Sonic Adventure, Sonic Heroes, Sonic 06, Sonic Unleashed, Sonic Colours, Sonic Generations and Sonic Forces, you'd think with something major like Smash Bros, they put more focus on Sonic The Hedgehog himself. You don't have a Sonic game without Sonic so why would a Sonic anniversary feature a Sonic character that isn't Sonic? You have games like Tails Skypatrol or Knuckles Chaotix for that.
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Mushroomguy12
Smash Hero
I know some fighters that'd be happy about that.I don't care how unlikely it is.
But Ubisoft, for all that is good, give us a Just Dance stage
GilTheGreat19
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In a way, it isn't.
I find it quite likely that not every celebrity might be open to having their licensed songs in this game.
Snopp Dog composed a song for TTT2 called Knock Em Down, and as we can see, this song isn't included in CP10. Who knows what happened there.
Oh well.
Guynamednelson
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Considering we couldn't get C418 music and Just Dance is full of licensed songs...
And yes, I know some of them are covers but that still requires some licensing from record labels.
Speed Weed
Smash Master
this is how we can finally get Gangnam Style in SmashI don't care how unlikely it is.
But Ubisoft, for all that is good, give us a Just Dance stage
Twilord
Smash Ace
Very good point, though I could see it having a gimmick where the entire sound track of the game played.
GilTheGreat19
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If this actually happened, with the SOLE exception of the Just Dance song itself (shoutout to Lady Gaga while we're at it), I would be satisfied.
Inferno7
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All this talk about Shadow or other Sonic characters potentially making it in makes me wish that's the case for CP11, but at the same time I don't wanna get my hopes up.
I'll still give my two cents about it and get disappointed in the end though
1. Sonic has received the most support for a 2nd rep out of the 3rd parties (since Brawl as well), not really a contest in this regard
2. At the same time he's one of the most recognizable 3rd parties alongside PAC-MAN and Steve, while also having a very broad, diverse and beloved cast to choose from
3. Most potential characters save for Eggman would be fairly easy to work with due to Sonic's model being used as a base
4. Shadow in particular receiving the better treatment a non-playable character can get (an AT with new properties and 2 spirits, one of which is Legend-Class, not counting miis ofc) while also getting praised by the man himself, makes me think he could've been considered at some point
5. I know Sonic miis were directly ported from Sm4sh, but the fact being, it's strange that Shadow hasn't received one for so long despite being one of the most requested characters
6. There's a case being made for FP2 filling ''base game gaps'' rather than anything tbh, and it seems to be the reason why Sephiroth got in at all (lackluster FF7 content). This may sound very subjective or anecdotal, but I think most people find it strange that Sonic hasn't got a character even though other franchises did (as he checks all the boxes), in the same vein that people thought it was weird that KoF got included before Tekken.
7. We know there has been talks with SEGA in the past, not only in regards to trailers and such, but because they technically have 3 characters already
I must also add, that in case of the 2nd chance theory, most people say there isn't evidence of Sonic being planned and stuff, but I find it really hard to believe if the idea wasn't at least considered, when
1. Sonic has received the most support for a 2nd rep out of the 3rd parties (since Brawl as well), not really a contest in this regard
2. At the same time he's one of the most recognizable 3rd parties alongside PAC-MAN and Steve, while also having a very broad, diverse and beloved cast to choose from
3. Most potential characters save for Eggman would be fairly easy to work with due to Sonic's model being used as a base
4. Shadow in particular receiving the better treatment a non-playable character can get (an AT with new properties and 2 spirits, one of which is Legend-Class, not counting miis ofc) while also getting praised by the man himself, makes me think he could've been considered at some point
5. I know Sonic miis were directly ported from Sm4sh, but the fact being, it's strange that Shadow hasn't received one for so long despite being one of the most requested characters
6. There's a case being made for FP2 filling ''base game gaps'' rather than anything tbh, and it seems to be the reason why Sephiroth got in at all (lackluster FF7 content). This may sound very subjective or anecdotal, but I think most people find it strange that Sonic hasn't got a character even though other franchises did (as he checks all the boxes), in the same vein that people thought it was weird that KoF got included before Tekken.
7. We know there has been talks with SEGA in the past, not only in regards to trailers and such, but because they technically have 3 characters already
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Twilord
Smash Ace
Might want to set it so that one-time-in-ten the stage is sure to play that theme at the start of the match - just to be sure you hear it occasionally.
Þe 1 → Way
Smash Champion
This is my one singular prediction for CP11. The next fighter is from either Sega or Capcom. Not a massive prediction, and I am NOT putting another hat on the line. But I’ve got a really good feeling about this.
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