Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[FreeFox]

It's a metaphor for the series.

That hit closer to home than I would like to admit.

 

[Peripuff]

I don't know. Sonic is eponymous with the series and anniversary so bringing another character in the spot light would take away from that. Meanwhile Cloud is treated as a one off character so the Final Fantasy series does not revolve around him like it does with Sonic. You'd see people talking about either Tails, Shadow or Eggman in Smash instead of Sonic and I don't think Sega would want that. There is a lot of focus around Sonic on Sonic's anniversary with him making guest appearances in other games and media focusing solely on Sonic with other characters barely making an appearance.

I see where you're coming from, but the reality is that Sega has in no way been shying away from advertising the rest of the Sonic cast. The Sonic orchestra had a small part playing Shadow the Hedgehog's theme as someone mentioned earlier, but they also chose to play Believe in Myself (which is Tails's theme) instead of It Doesn't Matter (Sonic's theme) during the Sonic Adventure portion of the orchestra. In addition to this, Tails has occasionally joined Sonic in the promotional crossovers that are happening this year, like Super Monkey Ball. I don't think it's accurate to say the Sega would be averse to allowing the spotlight to go to another character, as long as the series itself gets the promotion, which is what they really care about at the end of the day. No matter how you slice it, adding a second Sonic character to Smash would undoubtedly promote the Sonic series.

 

[DarthEnderX]

There are still a lot of first party characters I’d be excited for

As unique Fighters, all I really want is Captain Toad/Toadette and King Hippo.

Everyone else I want would be an Echo(Ninten,Black Shadow,Impa,Galacta Knight,Black Knight,Charizard,Dixie Kong,Octolings) or a Boss(Mother Brain,Andross(N64 version),Arceus,Porky,Medusa).

 

[Mushroomguy12]

That hit closer to home than I would like to admit.

Although in this case, it was the home itself that was hit.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Paper Mario was great and all and I’d play Paper Mario and TTYD any day but my heart belongs to Mario & Luigi… Miss you Alphadream.

 

[RoboFist]

Paper Mario was great and all and I’d play Paper Mario and TTYD any day but my heart belongs to Mario & Luigi… Miss you Alphadream.

Why not bo-

Oh...right...

 

[DittoInDisguise]

most likely something not associated with Nintendo usually if Kazuya is any indication

I feel like Kazuya indicates CP11 will be 1st party, with Nintendo giving us a big third party to keep hype up when we get a 1st party. Like how we got min min to steve, and seph to pythra. It seems to me we will go Kazuya to a 1st party (most likely a recent 1st party so they can move the now "spending no cash" smash base to Nintendo's other software).

 

[ZelDan]

When it comes to first party characters, there's still more than a few I'd like to see:

 

[Cutie Gwen]

The issue with first parties is Nintendo's been real consistent with having first party DLC be from a recent game you can buy now on the Switch and the one first party Switch game that had me want to see content already got it, so why even bother pretending they might go for a character I like when it's liklier they'll go "Splatoon 2 is available on Nintendo Switch!" or something

 

[TCT~Phantom]

My issue with first parties right now is that honestly, most franchises in smash are fine in terms of representation. Outside of Zelda, I don’t think anything feels underrepresented right now. Maybe Bandana Dee would complete Kirby, and Waluigi likely will only become more popular as time goes on, but for franchises in smash, I think most are in a pretty fine spot. Would another rep be great? Sure. But there really are not that many Ridley or K Rool tier absences right now.

Where I do think there are noticeable first parties to put in are from non represented series. Rhythm Heaven, Golden Sun, Astral Chain, Ring Fit, Advance Wars, and Murasame Castle are a few examples I could name off the top of my head that you could rep easily. Heck, smash has a penchant for reviving series, so throwing Starfy, Custom Robo, or Sin and Punishment could be the boost they need to become relevant. Nintendo has a treasure trove of under utilized series or new series, I think there is more value to adding something from that than scrambling to figure out which first parties “deserve” to get in or would “complete” series.

 

[RoboFist]

When it comes to first party characters, there's still more than a few I'd like to see:

Day...
checks calendar
...5,091 of me being cripplingly depressed at how badly Lyn got screwed over in Brawl.

The issue with first parties is Nintendo's been real consistent with having first party DLC be from a recent game you can buy now on the Switch and the one first party Switch game that had me want to see content already got it, so why even bother pretending they might go for a character I like when it's liklier they'll go "Splatoon 2 is available on Nintendo Switch!" or something

What baffles me is that they added Pyra/Mythra and all of this Xenoblade 2 content, got me all interested in its story and characters, only to discover that they've ceased production on physical copies of the game. Just...release another wave, Nintendo, I'm trying to give you my money.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Heck, smash has a penchant for reviving series, so throwing Starfy, Custom Robo, or Sin and Punishment could be the boost they need to become relevant

This mindset's always been funny to me as a lot of people go "Oh if my most wwnted gets in then maybe their series will get revived/the character will appear in new games again" but then go ape**** about any character from a game that's not over 5 years old, just something that comes to mind

 

[Idon]

Twitter autocomplete is telling me something

 

[Inferno7]

What baffles me is that they added Pyra/Mythra and all of this Xenoblade 2 content, got me all interested in its story and characters, only to discover that they've ceased production on physical copies of the game. Just...release another wave, Nintendo, I'm trying to give you my money.

Lol so relatable, I've been trying to get my hands on this game ever since the Xeno girls got in
And it's not like I can get it in the Eshop at fair price either, since buying cards is pretty much the only choice I have at where I live (not to mention I wasted all my money on DMC already).

 

[Cosmic77]

My issue with first parties right now is that honestly, most franchises in smash are fine in terms of representation. Outside of Zelda, I don’t think anything feels underrepresented right now. Maybe Bandana Dee would complete Kirby, and Waluigi likely will only become more popular as time goes on, but for franchises in smash, I think most are in a pretty fine spot. Would another rep be great? Sure. But there really are not that many Ridley or K Rool tier absences right now.

Where I do think there are noticeable first parties to put in are from non represented series. Rhythm Heaven, Golden Sun, Astral Chain, Ring Fit, Advance Wars, and Murasame Castle are a few examples I could name off the top of my head that you could rep easily. Heck, smash has a penchant for reviving series, so throwing Starfy, Custom Robo, or Sin and Punishment could be the boost they need to become relevant. Nintendo has a treasure trove of under utilized series or new series, I think there is more value to adding something from that than scrambling to figure out which first parties “deserve” to get in or would “complete” series.

Meh. I think DK, Zelda, and Kirby still feel very incomplete. They have the biggest pieces of the puzzle, but characters like Dixie, BWD, and like, three or four Zelda characters would bring us home. I also feel like AC and Splatoon have the grounds for more characters.

Anywho, the problem with putting a heavy emphasis on tapping into unrepresented franchises like the ones you listed is that many of them just aren't very well-known or popular. I don't doubt that a lot of Nintendo fans would go nuts for Chorus Kids, Issac, Andy, and Takamaru. Everyone outside the fandom though? If they don't recognize any of these characters, let alone the franchises they come from, it's gonna be hard to get excited. That's why I think it's important to not be afraid to revisit existing franchises when adding new characters to Smash. Even if the character is only a side character in their game of origin, at least more people might have an easier time recognizing said character.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Actually, it's always felt weird to me that Platinum isn't in the copyright section on smash's title screen and trailers, since I was under the impression that they owned the games and Sega / Nintendo just published them, so Platinum would be the copyright holders for Bayonetta. I could be wrong though.

From what I've heard, Platinum Games owns like, none of the games they've worked on.

Nintendo owns (owned?) Wonderful 101
Sega owns Bayonetta
Pretty sure Nintendo owns Astral Chain as well

 

[Cutie Gwen]

From what I've heard, Platinum Games owns like, none of the games they've worked on.

Nintendo owns (owned?) Wonderful 101
Sega owns Bayonetta
Pretty sure Nintendo owns Astral Chain as well

Yeah, Platinum has only recently decided to publish their own games, though their first game, W101 Remastered flopped harder than before and their second game, Project GG, has been MIA since that teaser trailer last year. Then there's how Platinum's seemingly struggling with development with rumour of issues for Bayo 3, Babylon's Fall looking pretty bad and getting booted out of the Granblue game by Cygames

 

[Theguy123]

I feel like Kazuya indicates CP11 will be 1st party, with Nintendo giving us a big third party to keep hype up when we get a 1st party. Like how we got min min to steve, and seph to pythra. It seems to me we will go Kazuya to a 1st party (most likely a recent 1st party so they can move the now "spending no cash" smash base to Nintendo's other software).

Personally I’m doubtful that it’ll be a first party. There’s not many first party characters to shill these days. I doubt they’re gonna end on a character who’s got a game below 7 mill or it’s franchise isn’t a big seller as tekken 7 alone sold 7 mill. It would be a strange move for Nintendo to have a 50 million franchise as the 2nd to last character and then have a franchise that’s either got way less sales or has games that barely hit sales as the final character.

The only characters I could see it being if it’s first party are ring fit adventure, a mario rep, king boo, animal crossing, a Zelda rep that appeases in BOTW as well or pokemon SW/SH as they’ve been big sellers on the switch and are the only big sellers in general for Nintendo.

That’s why I feel there’s more chance of the last rep Being a third party because there’s Just way more options but that’s just my opinion.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Fighter 11 really does feel like a complete wild card at this point. Low key first party? Hype third party request? Last of the second chance characters ala much of the second Fighter's Pass? Complete WTF choice because Nintendo/Sakurai felt adventurous? Nothing seems off the table for a hypothetical selection that (realistically as the final Smash Ultimate DLC character) is the least risky reveal for a game and pass that has been effectively sold at this point.

 

[BlondeLombax]

It's late at night, therefore...

Spoiler: I am legally okay to make this take and not get too much hell for it...

A normal Waddle Dee would be an infinitely more fitting pick than just Bandana Waddle Dee.

 

[Lyncario]

It's late at night, therefore...

Spoiler: I am legally okay to make this take and not get too much hell for it...

A normal Waddle Dee would be an infinitely more fitting pick than just Bandana Waddle Dee.

It's not nighttime where I am.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Anywho, the problem with putting a heavy emphasis on tapping into unrepresented franchises like the ones you listed is that many of them just aren't very well-known or popular. I don't doubt that a lot of Nintendo fans would go nuts for Chorus Kids, Issac, Andy, and Takamaru. Everyone outside the fandom though? If they don't recognize any of these characters, let alone the franchises they come from, it's gonna be hard to get excited. That's why I think it's important to not be afraid to revisit existing franchises when adding new characters to Smash. Even if the character is only a side character in their game of origin, at least more people might have an easier time recognizing said character

...fun to play, not just...

 

[Mamboo07]

...fun to play, not just...

Recognizable.

 

[ArkSPiTFirE]

Meh. I think DK, Zelda, and Kirby still feel very incomplete. They have the biggest pieces of the puzzle, but characters like Dixie, BWD, and like, three or four Zelda characters would bring us home. I also feel like AC and Splatoon have the grounds for more characters.

Anywho, the problem with putting a heavy emphasis on tapping into unrepresented franchises like the ones you listed is that many of them just aren't very well-known or popular. I don't doubt that a lot of Nintendo fans would go nuts for Chorus Kids, Issac, Andy, and Takamaru. Everyone outside the fandom though? If they don't recognize any of these characters, let alone the franchises they come from, it's gonna be hard to get excited. That's why I think it's important to not be afraid to revisit existing franchises when adding new characters to Smash. Even if the character is only a side character in their game of origin, at least more people might have an easier time recognizing said character.

I can understand the thought process, especially when its Pokémon, Mario and Zelda. Even if its side character number 4, these are some of the biggest franchises in the world. But I don't think it's fair to say that BWD will pull in more fans -outside of Nintendo fans- than Isaac or Chorus Kids. They might recognise it's from Kirby, but that's got to be about it. At least that's where I stand, and I'm a Nintendo fan.

You're not wrong though that outside the fandom, someone like Isaac is a bit of an unknown, but I could say the same for Shulk at the time of his inclusion. Although in his case it certainly helped that his game was recent. Smash will do the work of bringing more attention to a series, even though in Golden Sun's case, there's nothing to shill (that we know of). But again I can say the same for Banjo and K.Rool. I don't think that's a requirement.

I could go in circles about this, and I think it's a very Nintendo move to fill the next first party with something that's been on the shelves for them recently. I just think when it comes to characters that are requested by fans, you can't rule out Isaac from his placements on ballot polls and the like, he's been consistently up there.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Yea the 1st Party DLC pretty much fits the bills of promoting recent games and newer IPs
We sort of had this in the base game with 1st parties, but in way less of a degree imo. e.g Inkling, Isabelle, and Incineroar (though the former 2 have become staple Nintendo characters lately)

 

[Dinoman96]

Heck, smash has a penchant for reviving series, so throwing Starfy, Custom Robo, or Sin and Punishment could be the boost they need to become relevant.

No it doesn't.

The only actual example of this is Kid Icarus. And even then, it's not that strong of a case when you consider that Uprising was just a one-off passion project of Sakurai's from almost 10 years ago, and he's sworn off making another.

 

[Gengar84]

I just want to say that I love the Mishima Dojo and I wish we had more stages like it. I really like how it feels like you are fighting in an actual location instead of a random floating platform like most Smash stages. I really missed that aspect of Smash 64 and Melee stages. Several stages from those games felt like real places. I guess it’s kind of like the comparison between Tropical Freeze and New Super Mario Bros in that way. I always appreciate context in level or stage design.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

No it doesn't.

The only actual example of this is Kid Icarus. And even then, it's not that strong of a case when you consider that Uprising was just a one-off passion project of Sakurai's from almost 10 years ago, and he's sworn off making another.

Xenoblade got more popular after Smash as well. Xenoblade Chronicles 1 sold about 900,000 units, but the Definitive Edition sold 1.45 million. Plus Xenoblade 2 also was released after Smash 4 and sold 2 million.

 

[Staarih]

Xenoblade got more popular after Smash as well. Xenoblade Chronicles 1 sold about 900,000 units, but the Definitive Edition sold 1.45 million. Plus Xenoblade 2 also was released after Smash 4 and sold 2 million.

Xenoblade wasn't revived though, new games were probably coming anyway regardless of Shulk in Smash. His inclusion did help in the success of it though, sure, much like seen with Fire Emblem. But even with FE, it was close to dying until Awakening happened, so the Smash inclusions weren't guarantees of new games. F-Zero is still dead, who knows if a new Punch-Out is ever coming, the retro picks didn't get revivals etc...

There's a reason why "they need a new game" is a common reason for characters from "dead" franchises to get in Smash, as getting added doesn't always necessitate to revivals of games.

 

[Schnee117]

Xenoblade got more popular after Smash as well. Xenoblade Chronicles 1 sold about 900,000 units, but the Definitive Edition sold 1.45 million. Plus Xenoblade 2 also was released after Smash 4 and sold 2 million.

I think we can also attribute this more to the Switch itself to be honest
XC1 was originally a very late Wii release with staggered launches and a dumb release plan in America
2 was a year one title and DE is maybe around the mid-life of the system? Not at the ass end of the Switch's life anyhow and with global launches and the Switch has more pull with a core crowd instead of the Wii's vastly more casual appeal

Smash helped out a bit for sure, but it's circumstances with the system itself that put more weight behind 2 and DE doing much better

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I think a first party character that didn’t “complete” anything entering the common sphere of speculation would be a good step in the right direction and the attitude of first parties only “needing” a few extras is why the “bottom of the barrel” trend has been felt so strongly. Representation might feel “complete” once we slot in Dee into the Dream Land Four and add Dixie to complete the DKC2 cast, but both series addtionally have very fun tricks up their sleeves that very much have worth outside of feeling ”missing” right now.

 

[Sophitia]

If Smash led to series getting revived, how is Captain Falcon one of the most popular characters in the game with there being no new F-Zero titles?

 

[Mamboo07]

So, something about first party at the bottom of a barrel?

 

[Iko MattOrr]

I think a first party character that didn’t “complete” anything entering the common sphere of speculation would be a good step in the right direction and the attitude of first parties only “needing” a few extras is why the “bottom of the barrel” trend has been felt so strongly. Representation might feel “complete” once we slot in Dee into the Dream Land Four and add Dixie to complete the DKC2 cast, but both series addtionally have very fun tricks up their sleeves that very much have worth outside of feeling ”missing” right now.

There is no such thing as "complete" representation of a series. You can say that Mario would be complete with Waluigi, but it's still missing Toad, Birdo, and a few other very familiar faces.

"complete" is also very subjective, it depends on how deep you want to dig. Mario can be "complete" even just with Mario, Peach and Bowser, and everyone else cut out.

I'm under the impression that some people are not interested in first party characters anymore, and they just want some series to be "completed" so that they're finally finished, out of speculation once for all.

I hope we can get over this very soon, because that's one of the most annoying "fan rules" (or "fan concept" wathever) of all Smash speculation.

 

[Theguy123]

Wonder if the last character will go on the mural next to daisy since she’s got her eyes on someone but she’s not looking at anyone currently. It’s like the most obvious spot on the mural that suggests someone will be there. Who would fit there though would be anyone’s guess.

Another spot I’ve noticed is

Snake has his gun pointing at someone but it isn’t pointing currently at anyone on the roster

Either way I feel the last character will have someone in one of these positions or maybe in between the 2 somehow.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Snake has his gun pointing at someone but it isn’t pointing currently at anyone on the roster

I think he'll point his rocket launcher at Banjo, and Kazooie will freak out.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Wonder if the last character will go on the mural next to daisy since she’s got her eyes on someone but she’s not looking at anyone currently. It’s like the most obvious spot on the mural that suggests someone will be there. Who would fit there though would be anyone’s guess.

Ya know Doomguy had a pet bunny named Daisy

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

It's DK and Jumpman's 40th anniversary today

Forty years ago today, one of the most important video games ever was released for the arcade! The first game in the Donkey Kong series! Happy Birthday, DK, Mario, and Pauline!! #DonkeyKong40 pic.twitter.com/fdZLIwBr10

— Michael Julius (@juliusaurus) July 9, 2021

 

[Gengar84]

It's DK and Jumpman's 40th anniversary today

Forty years ago today, one of the most important video games ever was released for the arcade! The first game in the Donkey Kong series! Happy Birthday, DK, Mario, and Pauline!! #DonkeyKong40 pic.twitter.com/fdZLIwBr10

— Michael Julius (@juliusaurus) July 9, 2021

Pauline seems pretty happy for someone being abducted. Good for her.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

There is no such thing as "complete" representation of a series. You can say that Mario would be complete with Waluigi, but it's still missing Toad, Birdo, and a few other very familiar faces.

"complete" is also very subjective, it depends on how deep you want to dig. Mario can be "complete" even just with Mario, Peach and Bowser, and everyone else cut out.

I'm under the impression that some people are not interested in first party characters anymore, and they just want some series to be "completed" so that they're finally finished, out of speculation once for all.

I hope we can get over this very soon, because that's one of the most annoying "fan rules" (or "fan concept" wathever) of all Smash speculation.

Yeah, if you frame the discussion of first party as “who is missing” it implies we’re only a handful of picks away from completing the first party part of speculation and perpetuates the notion that first party newcomers don’t have a future once those few are added, or that it wouldn’t be a huge loss if Smash focussed on third parties (because only a handful of worthwhile characters would miss out)