Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[perfectchaos83]

So I looked in the game. If you go to the News tab in the Actual Smash Ultimate game, and you click on any of the news pages, if you press the Start button for more info you can see that the Website certification ends pretty much February 23rd, 2022.

That's why 4chan Anon was saying that's gonna be the true end of Smash Ultimate, at least by then

Unless you think that this website is going to shut down on August 6th of 2021, I don't know why anyone would think a website's certification expiring means anything. Those things expire all the time and it's probably expired on the Smash sites several times over the life of Ultimate.

 

[Twilord]

Oh yeah, it's time to go off about Yume Nikki and its legacy... Let's go, Madotsuki.
I would smoke all of you in a contest like this.
Maybe. I dunno... Evil Trapezium would probably beat me, actually...

I just remembered I have (saved somewhere) a twenty five point argument for why Agumon was a likely choice - I could probably convert at least twenty of those points into essay topics.

I mean I'd rather have another Xenoblade or Bayonetta character, or Kamek, Vaati, or E.Gadd - but I would honestly go with Agumon just because I feel like they are the one I could convince Sakurai/a judge with.

50,000 is a lot. I have a 10,000 word essay on why Pyramid Head is a perfect example of good horror design. I could bloat that and include more Smash related topics. It might work.

Nice! Another chapter on why horror matters seems like a pretty easy thing to included. Just needs three more then!

 

[chocolatejr9]

Hypothetically, if there was a contest to 'win' a slot for your character of choice in Smash Bros, but in order to enter it you had to submit a 50,000 word thesis on why they deserved to get in - would you enter? And for who?

Ooh, I've thought about the concept of "winning a slot" before. Though I always imagined it would be done via a large scale Smash tournament, with the grand prize being the ability to add any video game character you want (within reason, of course). It'd be like something straight out of an anime, I tell you!

 

[RoboFist]

Hypothetically, if there was a contest to 'win' a slot for your character of choice in Smash Bros, but in order to enter it you had to submit a 50,000 word thesis on why they deserved to get in - would you enter? And for who?

I majored in writing/rhetoric and used to run a long-form blog.

I've already done this for at least six characters out of passion/sheer boredom alone.

So if this contest were real, I'd finally put my waste of a college degree to good use and Okami fans would be eating good.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Hypothetically, if there was a contest to 'win' a slot for your character of choice in Smash Bros, but in order to enter it you had to submit a 50,000 word thesis on why they deserved to get in - would you enter? And for who?

Time to get to work.

https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/2v6o5m

 

[Twilord]

Ooh, I've thought about the concept of "winning a slot" before. Though I always imagined it would be done via a large scale Smash tournament, with the grand prize being the ability to add any video game character you want (within reason, of course). It'd be like something straight out of an anime, I tell you!

Same but I think the closest thing in reality may have happened to me. I won a tournament at a college which got Bayonetta some votes here in Europe.

(Items on, playing vanilla Brawl on sideways Wii-Motes - astounded the last guy that I beat Metaknight with... can't remember if I switched from Toon Link to Kirby or vice versa; I just remember thinking "time to get serious.")

But I don't think Sakurai would go for that model intentionally though, it would over emphasis competitive play...

 

[Lionfranky]

Yeah, there’s a good chance you’re right but I think the Battletoads have two important advantages over Doomguy and Master Chief. The first is their (and RARE’s) history with Nintendo. Doom has always been multiplatform and Halo has never been on a Nintendo console. The second is more subjective but I think their play style translates much better to a fighting game like Smash than a FPS character.

But, Halo has advantage over Battletoad.... which is Japan. I think people exaggerate how poor Halo is in Japan. It's nowhere obscure as people make it out to be. I don't remember Battletoad in Japanese speculation at all. Really, only Dragonborn had better odds at Japan than Master Chief from Microsoft pool.

 

[Twilord]

View attachment 322034

I majored in writing/rhetoric and used to run a long-form blog.

I've already done this for at least six characters out of passion/sheer boredom alone.

So if this contest were real, I'd finally put my waste of a college degree to good use and Okami fans would be eating good.

Okay now I really wish this would happen because I would love to try my hand against someone like you.

Trying to convert my arguments into an enjoyable pseudo narrative.

"In the beginning, before franchise, before genre, before gaming software - there existed gaming hardware."

 

[Gengar84]

But, Halo has advantage over Battletoad.... which is Japan. I think people exaggerate how poor Halo is in Japan. It's nowhere obscure as people make it out to be. I don't remember Battletoad in Japanese speculation at all. Really, only Dragonborn had better odds at Japan than Master Chief from Microsoft pool.

Oh, Master Chief has plenty of advantages. Primarily that Halo is a much bigger and more influential series than Battletoads. If you’re going for hype picks for the general audience, you can’t get much better than Halo.

I personally prefer the Battletoads because I grew up with them and they are my brother’s favorite video game characters ever. I also think we could use another NES era third party and I think the Battletoads are among the top NES reps left along with Ryu Hyabusa and Bill Rizer. They also have a unique advantage of being the most popular western characters created in that era.

 

[Idon]

The only thing harder than writing a several thousands long essay is getting someone to read it.

 

[Twilord]

The only thing harder than writing a several thousands long essay is getting someone to read it.

Presumably paying them - which introduces a huge disincentive for such an event.

 

[PeridotGX]

Hypothetically, if there was a contest to 'win' a slot for your character of choice in Smash Bros, but in order to enter it you had to submit a 50,000 word thesis on why they deserved to get in - would you enter? And for who?

It depends if I can pawn some of the hard work off. If I commission a MYM guy to write a relatively basic moveset for my character to help explain why they should be in, we hit the word count by the time we're done with the grabs (this is only slightly exaggerated). I could also make AI dungeon or a similar site write a part of it.

If I can't? Hell no, I'd burn out at around the 2k mark tops. And honestly, why would Sakurai want to read a short novel's worth of words on why someone wants the guy from Super Adventure Island in Smash?

 

[Lionfranky]

Oh, Master Chief has plenty of advantages. Primarily that Halo is a much bigger and more influential series than Battletoads. If you’re going for hype picks for the general audience, you can’t get much better than Halo.

I personally prefer the Battletoads because I grew up with them and they are my brother’s favorite video game characters ever. I also think we could use another NES era third party and I think the Battletoads are among the top NES reps left along with Ryu Hyabusa and Bill Rizer. They also have a unique advantage of being the most popular western characters created in that era.

I understand your enthusiasm. I had similar attitude when it came to Bandai-Namco rep. I was rooting for Agumon so much, but ship already sailed. At least, you can make argument that Digimon as whole franchise earned more money than Tekken. I just don't see even Nintendo's higher up being so hung up on "having presence on Nintendo platform." If having games on Nintendo platform is so important, we would've had most recent MGS games, FF7 remake or Persona 5 along the way. Well, Persona 5 spin off later came, but not still no main series on sight. Yes, it's better if characters have presence on Nintendo platform, but that's not always case.

 

[Perkilator]

Presumably paying them - which introduces a huge disincentive for such an event.

So, in other words...bribing a developer into reading 50,000 or so words of why Shrek should be in Smash.

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

Hypothetically, if there was a contest to 'win' a slot for your character of choice in Smash Bros, but in order to enter it you had to submit a 50,000 word thesis on why they deserved to get in - would you enter? And for who?

Beat you to the punch man, i already did that with Simon. That's right lads i got Simon into the game, just look at this behemoth of an OP i did 3 years ago.

(my only regret is praising the Netflix show, now i pretend it's an edgy fanfic, but whatever)

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Hypothetically, if there was a contest to 'win' a slot for your character of choice in Smash Bros, but in order to enter it you had to submit a 50,000 word thesis on why they deserved to get in - would you enter? And for who?

I'd find a way.

And Brian of course. Like, not even a contest at this point for me. So to speak.

 

[Twilord]

It depends if I can pawn some of the hard work off. If I commission a MYM guy to write a relatively basic moveset for my character to help explain why they should be in, we hit the word count by the time we're done with the grabs (this is only slightly exaggerated). I could also make AI dungeon or a similar site write a part of it.

If I can't? Hell no, I'd burn out at around the 2k mark tops. And honestly, why would Sakurai want to read a short novel's worth of words on why someone wants the guy from Super Adventure Island in Smash?

I feel like it probably wouldn't be read by Sakurai but rather by people Nintendo hired for the writing contest; Sakurai would probably only read the winner.


Also how do you make a move set the length of a novel? Also would you be hitting on things outside just the moveset, because I feel like just the moveset wouldn't be enough to win the contest...

So, in other words...bribing a developer into reading 50,000 or so words of why Shrek should be in Smash.

Probably not an actual developer, more likely a hired go-between. Possibly a professional editing office.

Beat you to the punch man, i already did that with Simon. That's right lads i got Simon into the game, just look at this behemoth of an OP i did 3 years ago.

(my only regret is praising the Netflix show, now i pretend it's an edgy fanfic, but whatever)

Congratulations! You are responsible for every spammy zoning player who uses them too now though.

I'd find a way.

And Brian of course. Like, not even a contest at this point for me. So to speak.

Any hypothetical chapter concepts? I probably won't be in a position to exploit, undermine or manipulate your argument

 

[PeridotGX]

I feel like it probably wouldn't be read by Sakurai but rather by people Nintendo hired for the writing contest; Sakurai would probably only read the winner.


Also how do you make a move set the length of a novel? Also would you be hitting on things outside just the moveset, because I feel like just the moveset wouldn't be enough to win the contest...

like i said, i was exagerating, but MYM movesets are ridicullousy long, anywhere from 5k to 25k words. And there would obviously be more to it than that.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I'd find a way.

And Brian of course. Like, not even a contest at this point for me. So to speak.

I mean, characters like Brian are why I had the tournament concept: a word doc just might not be enough for some characters, no matter how long it is. That's why you gotta prove your determination and devotion... in the field of BATTLE!!!!!!!

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Beat you to the punch man, i already did that with Simon. That's right lads i got Simon into the game, just look at this behemoth of an OP i did 3 years ago.

(my only regret is praising the Netflix show, now i pretend it's an edgy fanfic, but whatever)

I’m actually convinced you willed Simon into Existence with that mammoth of a post.
(also shut up the anime is great I am not afraid to turn you into wall meat)

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Any hypothetical chapter concepts? I probably won't be in a position to exploit, undermine or manipulate your argument

My computer is a bit too on the fritz, my keys not working that well consistently. Thus, trying to make one right now would take too long.

But you can view the link to my support topic via my signature for a small snippet of some stuff I could say if you want~

I mean, characters like Brian are why I had the tournament concept: a word doc just might not be enough for some characters, no matter how long it is. That's why you gotta prove your determination and devotion... in the field of BATTLE!!!!!!!

Truthfully I missed that post. Could you link it to me?

 

[chocolatejr9]

My computer is a bit too on the fritz, my keys not working that well consistently. Thus, trying to make one right now would take too long.

But you can view the link to my support topic via my signature for a small snippet of some stuff I could say if you want~


Truthfully I missed that post. Could you link it to me?

This one:

Ooh, I've thought about the concept of "winning a slot" before. Though I always imagined it would be done via a large scale Smash tournament, with the grand prize being the ability to add any video game character you want (within reason, of course). It'd be like something straight out of an anime, I tell you!

 

[kylexv]

Pic of the Day:

pic.twitter.com/u6n3KtktDS

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) July 8, 2021

 

[RoboFist]

The only thing harder than writing a several thousands long essay is getting someone to read it.

I've never read something that simultaneously made me laugh and die a little inside from how accurate it is...

Beat you to the punch man, i already did that with Simon. That's right lads i got Simon into the game, just look at this behemoth of an OP i did 3 years ago.

(my only regret is praising the Netflix show, now i pretend it's an edgy fanfic, but whatever)

As someone who voted for Simon and who made the idiotic decision of posting his "written argument" on f***ing Tumblr of all unholy places, you have my thanks and my appreciation.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Hypothetically, if there was a contest to 'win' a slot for your character of choice in Smash Bros, but in order to enter it you had to submit a 50,000 word thesis on why they deserved to get in - would you enter? And for who?

Easy, I'd just take the script to Hamilton and replace the characters' names with Ace Attorney characters. They're lawyers so it kinda works.

No I have not checked whether Hamilton has over 50k words so if I fall short I'd just copy the script to Bee Movie or whatever

 

[Merengue]

I feel like there’s a lot of obvious Spirit Event material (new ones, not generic themed ones) that were missed opportunities

like Tokyo Mirage Sessions Encore (just so Tsubasa wouldn’t be the only TMS spirit anymore), Xenoblade DE Future Connected, Puyo Puyo Tetris 2 (assuming Arle isn’t playable), Star Ocean First Departure R, and please Spirits team I am begging you I want Darkest Dungeon to be acknowledged

I wish they added Porky's spirit.

 

[7NATOR]

So yet again, I was thinking about the state of CP11, so I looked at the Final Characters for the Previous games

Brawl: Olimar (Pre-Release), Wolf (Post-Release)

Smash 4: Shulk (Pre-Release), Bowser Jr/Duck Hunt (Post-Release), Bayonetta (DLC)

Ultimate: Ken/Incineroar/Pirahana Plant (Base), Byleth (FP1)

So I do know the whole thing about putting the characters near the beginning/Middle to get the sales early, but looking at the circumstances around these characters, These characters couldn't actually be anything other than last

I'm not sure on Olimar and Shulk to be honest. They both have similarities in that they both come from New, though Niche Nintendo I.Ps. They aren't the biggest reveals, but they still are decent, especially since Shulk was somewhat of a popular request I hear. In any case, these characters probably could have been developed earlier, though they both are complex characters.

But when it comes to Wolf, He was one of, if not the Last character added to the game in terms of development, since he could be added with the time the team had left since he could re-use assets from Fox and Falco. And this also applies to Bowser Jr. Sakurai commented that Bowser Jr. was really lucky to get into the game, which implies he was one of the Last fighters to be added in.

For Duck Hunt, it seems that historically, the "Surprise characters" of Smash (which Duck hunt is classified as) typically are among the last characters to be developed. this applies to G&W in Melee as an example. And it also probably applies to Pirahana Plant, to the point where Plant had to be Pre-order DLC, instead of being a Base Roster

Incineroar and Byleth couldn't have been developed any earlier. A Gen 7 Pokemon was reserved a spot on the Base roster, but for awhile it was unsure who the actual Fighter would be. You can't develop a Fighter you don't even know who it's gonna be, and the Dev Team knows who the other Newcomers are gonna be.

This is also the same thing with Three Houses. While it was set that the Fighter would come from Three Houses since that was the game that met Nintendo's Quota of "a Fighter from a game people are playing now", Sakurai and the team couldn't start development without first playing a Early build of the game first. It's unknown when exactly Sakurai played the Build, but if it was not in 2018/Very early 2019, there's no way Byleth could have been in any other spot than the last character in Pass 1

This is also the Same thing with Corrin, since Fates was a really recent game (to the point the U.S didn't have the game when Corrin was revealed), however this might also be the case for Bayonetta, since she was the Ballot winner. Of course there is evidence that Bayonetta likely wasn't chosen strictly because of the ballot, as Data alluding to her came out 2 weeks after the Ballot was announced

But there is good evidence that she was the Last character to be Planned. There was one extra Placeholder spot that was added to Smash 4 internal slot count, and this ended up being used For Bayonetta. I also think they also waited after Bayonetta 2 was released to see the reception and everything. Unlike Corrin, Bayonetta wasn't chosen to represent a game people would be playing now, but because of her popularity.

The point of talking about all of this is to say that I don't necessarily think Nintendo chooses to end disappointing all the time. I do agree they do choose to reveal the bigger characters near the Beginning or Middle, but we have to establish why though

It's the type of characters picked that end up having to be revealed at the end or near the End. Characters like Corrin, Bayonetta, Incineraor, and Byleth couldn't be revealed any earlier if they wanted to, since it's likely by the time they had the assets/green light to start development, the other characters were well on their was to being developed

Now the rest of the characters theoretically could have been developed earlier on, and it does seem they were out-prioritized by more important characters in the roster in terms of development order. What I will say though is that the last characters tends to be among the more complicated of characters in terms of Development. Olimar, Shulk, Duck Hunt, and Bayonetta have Complex Mechanics going on, and Duck Hunt is special since he had to pretty much be brought back to life in 3D, since his last appearance was Duck Hunt on NES

The interesting thing is despite some of these characters being considered disappointing, Alot of the reasoning for the characters being added in was because of popularity with the fans. Wolf, Bowser Jr. (he might be more speculative), and Bayonetta were added because there were requests for these characters. Shulk is the definition of a character for the fans, since the fans are the reason Xenoblade got reprinted and stuff. Bayonetta is important here since she was the ender of Smash 4 DLC

People talk about how Nintendo doesn't care about the fans when Chossing DLC, especially when it comes to ending it, and stuff like that, but Bayonetta does actually go against that idea. She Actually represents an ideal type of Final Character that people want to see. The Idea of the FP2 ending on a character like Waluigi for example does have some creditability thanks to Bayonetta ending the Smash 4 DLC

So in regards to CP11, I think there is a good reason why they are last. If the character was not chosen to "Represent a game people would be playing Now", or isn't a recent character in general. then there is probably going to be some hooplah that makes CP11 a really interesting character. I trust Nintendo that they picked an ending character that will appeal to the people. This character was worth being developed, as FP2 could have just been 5 characters like FP1. Nintendo has a good reason to have chosen to have this character developed, and if it's not to be advertisement character, than DLC History in the past shows it's probably something the fans will like

 

[Inferno7]

Hypothetically, if there was a contest to 'win' a slot for your character of choice in Smash Bros, but in order to enter it you had to submit a 50,000 word thesis on why they deserved to get in - would you enter? And for who?

Given that it's a lifetime dream, I'd gladly make a 50,000 word college essay for Shadow to get in

 

[Mamboo07]

You know, before Steve got into Smash, people say he wouldn't fit in due to how uncanny he looks but never say the same about Game and Watch.

Probably because they didn't want the block man?

 

[Dr.DonPatch64]

Honestly I'm not sure who the next fighter would be, since it might or might not end with a bang,

also yes I main a lot of characters

 

[Dr.DonPatch64]

So yet again, I was thinking about the state of CP11, so I looked at the Final Characters for the Previous games

Brawl: Olimar (Pre-Release), Wolf (Post-Release)

Smash 4: Shulk (Pre-Release), Bowser Jr/Duck Hunt (Post-Release), Bayonetta (DLC)

Ultimate: Ken/Incineroar/Pirahana Plant (Base), Byleth (FP1)

So I do know the whole thing about putting the characters near the beginning/Middle to get the sales early, but looking at the circumstances around these characters, These characters couldn't actually be anything other than last

I'm not sure on Olimar and Shulk to be honest. They both have similarities in that they both come from New, though Niche Nintendo I.Ps. They aren't the biggest reveals, but they still are decent, especially since Shulk was somewhat of a popular request I hear. In any case, these characters probably could have been developed earlier, though they both are complex characters.

But when it comes to Wolf, He was one of, if not the Last character added to the game in terms of development, since he could be added with the time the team had left since he could re-use assets from Fox and Falco. And this also applies to Bowser Jr. Sakurai commented that Bowser Jr. was really lucky to get into the game, which implies he was one of the Last fighters to be added in.

For Duck Hunt, it seems that historically, the "Surprise characters" of Smash (which Duck hunt is classified as) typically are among the last characters to be developed. this applies to G&W in Melee as an example. And it also probably applies to Piranha Plant, to the point where Plant had to be Pre-order DLC, instead of being a Base Roster

Incineroar and Byleth couldn't have been developed any earlier. A Gen 7 Pokemon was reserved a spot on the Base roster, but for awhile it was unsure who the actual Fighter would be. You can't develop a Fighter you don't even know who it's gonna be, and the Dev Team knows who the other Newcomers are gonna be.

This is also the same thing with Three Houses. While it was set that the Fighter would come from Three Houses since that was the game that met Nintendo's Quota of "a Fighter from a game people are playing now", Sakurai and the team couldn't start development without first playing a Early build of the game first. It's unknown when exactly Sakurai played the Build, but if it was not in 2018/Very early 2019, there's no way Byleth could have been in any other spot than the last character in Pass 1

This is also the Same thing with Corrin, since Fates was a really recent game (to the point the U.S didn't have the game when Corrin was revealed), however this might also be the case for Bayonetta, since she was the Ballot winner. Of course there is evidence that Bayonetta likely wasn't chosen strictly because of the ballot, as Data alluding to her came out 2 weeks after the Ballot was announced

But there is good evidence that she was the Last character to be Planned. There was one extra Placeholder spot that was added to Smash 4 internal slot count, and this ended up being used For Bayonetta. I also think they also waited after Bayonetta 2 was released to see the reception and everything. Unlike Corrin, Bayonetta wasn't chosen to represent a game people would be playing now, but because of her popularity.

The point of talking about all of this is to say that I don't necessarily think Nintendo chooses to end disappointing all the time. I do agree they do choose to reveal the bigger characters near the Beginning or Middle, but we have to establish why though

It's the type of characters picked that end up having to be revealed at the end or near the End. Characters like Corrin, Bayonetta, Incineraor, and Byleth couldn't be revealed any earlier if they wanted to, since it's likely by the time they had the assets/green light to start development, the other characters were well on their was to being developed

Now the rest of the characters theoretically could have been developed earlier on, and it does seem they were out-prioritized by more important characters in the roster in terms of development order. What I will say though is that the last characters tends to be among the more complicated of characters in terms of Development. Olimar, Shulk, Duck Hunt, and Bayonetta have Complex Mechanics going on, and Duck Hunt is special since he had to pretty much be brought back to life in 3D, since his last appearance was Duck Hunt on NES

The interesting thing is despite some of these characters being considered disappointing, Alot of the reasoning for the characters being added in was because of popularity with the fans. Wolf, Bowser Jr. (he might be more speculative), and Bayonetta were added because there were requests for these characters. Shulk is the definition of a character for the fans, since the fans are the reason Xenoblade got reprinted and stuff. Bayonetta is important here since she was the ender of Smash 4 DLC

People talk about how Nintendo doesn't care about the fans when Choosing DLC, especially when it comes to ending it, and stuff like that, but Bayonetta does actually go against that idea. She Actually represents an ideal type of Final Character that people want to see. The Idea of the FP2 ending on a character like Waluigi for example does have some creditability thanks to Bayonetta ending the Smash 4 DLC

So in regards to CP11, I think there is a good reason why they are last. If the character was not chosen to "Represent a game people would be playing Now", or isn't a recent character in general. then there is probably going to be some hooplah that makes CP11 a really interesting character. I trust Nintendo that they picked an ending character that will appeal to the people. This character was worth being developed, as FP2 could have just been 5 characters like FP1. Nintendo has a good reason to have chosen to have this character developed, and if it's not to be advertisement character, than DLC History in the past shows it's probably something the fans will like

That's a lot of detail you put in there, very impressive

 

[CapitaineCrash]

So yet again, I was thinking about the state of CP11, so I looked at the Final Characters for the Previous games

Brawl: Olimar (Pre-Release), Wolf (Post-Release)

Smash 4: Shulk (Pre-Release), Bowser Jr/Duck Hunt (Post-Release), Bayonetta (DLC)

Ultimate: Ken/Incineroar/Pirahana Plant (Base), Byleth (FP1)

So I do know the whole thing about putting the characters near the beginning/Middle to get the sales early, but looking at the circumstances around these characters, These characters couldn't actually be anything other than last

I'm not sure on Olimar and Shulk to be honest. They both have similarities in that they both come from New, though Niche Nintendo I.Ps. They aren't the biggest reveals, but they still are decent, especially since Shulk was somewhat of a popular request I hear. In any case, these characters probably could have been developed earlier, though they both are complex characters.

But when it comes to Wolf, He was one of, if not the Last character added to the game in terms of development, since he could be added with the time the team had left since he could re-use assets from Fox and Falco. And this also applies to Bowser Jr. Sakurai commented that Bowser Jr. was really lucky to get into the game, which implies he was one of the Last fighters to be added in.

For Duck Hunt, it seems that historically, the "Surprise characters" of Smash (which Duck hunt is classified as) typically are among the last characters to be developed. this applies to G&W in Melee as an example. And it also probably applies to Pirahana Plant, to the point where Plant had to be Pre-order DLC, instead of being a Base Roster

Incineroar and Byleth couldn't have been developed any earlier. A Gen 7 Pokemon was reserved a spot on the Base roster, but for awhile it was unsure who the actual Fighter would be. You can't develop a Fighter you don't even know who it's gonna be, and the Dev Team knows who the other Newcomers are gonna be.

This is also the same thing with Three Houses. While it was set that the Fighter would come from Three Houses since that was the game that met Nintendo's Quota of "a Fighter from a game people are playing now", Sakurai and the team couldn't start development without first playing a Early build of the game first. It's unknown when exactly Sakurai played the Build, but if it was not in 2018/Very early 2019, there's no way Byleth could have been in any other spot than the last character in Pass 1

This is also the Same thing with Corrin, since Fates was a really recent game (to the point the U.S didn't have the game when Corrin was revealed), however this might also be the case for Bayonetta, since she was the Ballot winner. Of course there is evidence that Bayonetta likely wasn't chosen strictly because of the ballot, as Data alluding to her came out 2 weeks after the Ballot was announced

But there is good evidence that she was the Last character to be Planned. There was one extra Placeholder spot that was added to Smash 4 internal slot count, and this ended up being used For Bayonetta. I also think they also waited after Bayonetta 2 was released to see the reception and everything. Unlike Corrin, Bayonetta wasn't chosen to represent a game people would be playing now, but because of her popularity.

The point of talking about all of this is to say that I don't necessarily think Nintendo chooses to end disappointing all the time. I do agree they do choose to reveal the bigger characters near the Beginning or Middle, but we have to establish why though

It's the type of characters picked that end up having to be revealed at the end or near the End. Characters like Corrin, Bayonetta, Incineraor, and Byleth couldn't be revealed any earlier if they wanted to, since it's likely by the time they had the assets/green light to start development, the other characters were well on their was to being developed

Now the rest of the characters theoretically could have been developed earlier on, and it does seem they were out-prioritized by more important characters in the roster in terms of development order. What I will say though is that the last characters tends to be among the more complicated of characters in terms of Development. Olimar, Shulk, Duck Hunt, and Bayonetta have Complex Mechanics going on, and Duck Hunt is special since he had to pretty much be brought back to life in 3D, since his last appearance was Duck Hunt on NES

The interesting thing is despite some of these characters being considered disappointing, Alot of the reasoning for the characters being added in was because of popularity with the fans. Wolf, Bowser Jr. (he might be more speculative), and Bayonetta were added because there were requests for these characters. Shulk is the definition of a character for the fans, since the fans are the reason Xenoblade got reprinted and stuff. Bayonetta is important here since she was the ender of Smash 4 DLC

People talk about how Nintendo doesn't care about the fans when Chossing DLC, especially when it comes to ending it, and stuff like that, but Bayonetta does actually go against that idea. She Actually represents an ideal type of Final Character that people want to see. The Idea of the FP2 ending on a character like Waluigi for example does have some creditability thanks to Bayonetta ending the Smash 4 DLC

So in regards to CP11, I think there is a good reason why they are last. If the character was not chosen to "Represent a game people would be playing Now", or isn't a recent character in general. then there is probably going to be some hooplah that makes CP11 a really interesting character. I trust Nintendo that they picked an ending character that will appeal to the people. This character was worth being developed, as FP2 could have just been 5 characters like FP1. Nintendo has a good reason to have chosen to have this character developed, and if it's not to be advertisement character, than DLC History in the past shows it's probably something the fans will like

Something that I realised too is that both Duck hunt and Bowser jr were not in the Gematsu leak from Smash 4. My guess is that both of those characters were chosen later into development (which make sense considering Sakurai comments on Bowser jr. almost not making the cut) and the Gematsu info was probably outdated because they talk about a Rhythm heaven character and Chrom (Chrom was confirmed planned by Sakurai, and Rhythm heaven was speculated planned because of the icon in the data).

On a kind of related note, this make me wonder if Ayumi from Famicom detective club have more serious chances than I thought. If Nintendo want to end the pass on another "character from a game people are playing right now", she would fit and Sakurai might pick her since he wanted her in Melee (fit second chance theory). Honestly if Famicom detecive club doesn't get an spirit event soon or something, I would say she would be a character to keep an eye on.

 

[Inferno7]

You know, before Steve got into Smash, people say he wouldn't fit in due to how uncanny he looks but never say the same about Game and Watch.

Probably because they didn't want the block man?

This is pretty much the reason why
Also the fact some fans wanted to straight up delete him from the game because of his playstyle, but by that logic every single campy character should suffer the same fate. It's just like when people try to gatekeep characters such as Zero and Morrigan from appearing in Smash due to the ''too many crossover/fighting game appearances'', without realizing Mr. Crossover himself (Ryu) is in the game.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

That hurts I actually loved VI. Seven as well.

Ah but I said it was simply the least good, a game with Geis can hardly be considered bad

Easy, I'd just take the script to Hamilton and replace the characters' names with Ace Attorney characters. They're lawyers so it kinda works.

No I have not checked whether Hamilton has over 50k words so if I fall short I'd just copy the script to Bee Movie or whatever

I'm infamously reminded of this tweet with swear words so i shall not embed it

https://twitter.com/eggtempest/status/1403096198269923334?s=19

 

[FreeFox]

All this talk about assist trophies and I am still waiting for Isaac to join smash one day. Between the item that semed to come from Golden Sun and the Sakuarai picture, it just doesnt seem fair that he didnt make the cut.

Honestly I'm not sure who the next fighter would be, since it might or might not end with a bang,

also yes I main a lot of characters

I only main 15. You are absolutely impressive.

Something that I realised too is that both Duck hunt and Bowser jr were not in the Gematsu leak from Smash 4. My guess is that both of those characters were chosen later into development (which make sense considering Sakurai comments on Bowser jr. almost not making the cut) and the Gematsu info was probably outdated because they talk about a Rhythm heaven character and Chrom (Chrom was confirmed planned by Sakurai, and Rhythm heaven was speculated planned because of the icon in the data).

On a kind of related note, this make me wonder if Ayumi from Famicom detective club have more serious chances than I thought. If Nintendo want to end the pass on another "character from a game people are playing right now", she would fit and Sakurai might pick her since he wanted her in Melee (fit second chance theory). Honestly if Famicom detecive club doesn't get an spirit event soon or something, I would say she would be a character to keep an eye on.

I really wonder why the Rhythm Heaven character was completely scrapped to this day. My best guess is that the 3DS limitations may have played a part in its eventual demise especially considering that characters like Lucas, Roy and Mewtwo were added later in development so it wasnt like they couldnt just wait for DLC to add them in.

 

[Quick Gaming (QG)]

I’ve seen some people discuss the possibility that they may reveal the fighter later than usual to coincide with a game release, so figured it was worth mentioning the Switch exclusive Danganronpa collection (with a brand new game) got an official release date of December 3

Just felt like it was worth mentioning

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I’ve seen some people discuss the possibility that they may reveal the fighter later than usual to coincide with a game release, so figured it was worth mentioning the Switch exclusive Danganronpa collection (with a brand new game) got an official release date of December 3

Just felt like it was worth mentioning

View attachment 322061

I really fail to see how Nintendo would want to wait 6 months from now on a mostly finished fighter, especially as the selling point of Decadence is 3 ports, meaning they benefit from waiting as much as they would from saying "Interested in the game the new fighter's from? Then check out Decadence on December 3rd!

 

[Idon]

I’ve seen some people discuss the possibility that they may reveal the fighter later than usual to coincide with a game release, so figured it was worth mentioning the Switch exclusive Danganronpa collection (with a brand new game) got an official release date of December 3

Just felt like it was worth mentioning

View attachment 322061

Finally, Komaeda Smash Bros.

 

[TheAJJohnson]

Hypothetically, if there was a contest to 'win' a slot for your character of choice in Smash Bros, but in order to enter it you had to submit a 50,000 word thesis on why they deserved to get in - would you enter? And for who?

I would do it for Scorpion for sure. It's the only he would get in, given everything going against him in Japan.

And 50,000? I would probably hit that number on accident naturally. I feel like some of my reddit posts take me into the wee hours of the night sometimes...

 

[mynameisBlade]

I'd gladly do a 500,000 word paper giving reasons as to why not only Scorpion should be in this game, but also characters like Agumon, Crash Bandicoot, Sora or Crono, and Master Chief or Doom Slayer to show appreciation in repping the first person shooter genre. A time span of around 24 hours should be plenty with how fast I type.