Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Guynamednelson]

Look at Smash 4's final DLC character. Bayonetta was such an exciting and unexpected reveal that it influenced the nature of Smash Bros speculation for the entirety of Ultimate's lifespan. Would there have been as many supporters for Doomguy or Master Chief if Bayonetta didn't prove that mature games could have a place in the Smash roster?

And yet the supposed proof that we can have AAA third-parties as our final character...isn't, when Bayonetta is a smaller IP that needed Nintendo's funding to continue. Also, keep in mind Corrin was revealed and released on the same day.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

And yet the supposed proof that we can have AAA third-parties as our final character...isn't, when Bayonetta is a smaller IP that needed Nintendo's funding to continue. Also, keep in mind Corrin was revealed and released on the same day.

There’s no “proof” either way, everything is conjecture based on feeble “patterns” and just the raw fact this is a special game with a special DLC cycle. I’m not expecting anyone big or heck, even a new company that isn’t repped in Smash yet but that’s based on fingerspitzengefühl and my general tendency to go with shoddy patterns.

This discussion is getting quite tiresome. Yes, Bayo wasn’t a big choice but then again she was the ballot winner*. Yes, Corrin ended Smash Ultimate with her, but Cloud was showcased alongside them and Sakurai probably knew of Ultimate by then. Anything before those speculation cycle I personally consider moot points what with the fact they’re base games by design and the existence of unlockable characters muddying everything. To me, the pattern thus goes like Bayo/Corrin, Incineroar/Ken, Byleth and CP11 (with the softening circumstances of these not being The Final character of 10 Years of development, a feat acknowledged by Sakurai.) To me, it does read to the more low-key side (First party or third party company in Smash already) but that’s also because the chance it’s one of three frontrunners versus literally any other video game character is numerically a bit smaller than projected.

 

[Yokta]

Incidentally, if they decided the cast of the second pass ahead of time, they probably had to put a lot of thought into the order of their release. If their motivation was supremely cynical, they'd put the biggest names at the front of the pass to sell the pass on the illusion of consistent hype, only to wrap it up with the obscure or safe characters that wouldn't sell as many passes on their own.

It's what they did with the first pass: Joker, Hero and BK sold passes, while Terry and Byleth snuck in as extras. If we ignore Min Min as a red herring, the second pass seems to be similar in that regard: Steve and Sephiroth raised expectations and got people buying passes, and Pyra/Mythra and Kazuya went along for the ride.

No offence to fans of these second-half fighters. I won't deny they're beloved characters represented well by their moveset and extra content. I merely believe that their arrangement in the pass only makes sense from a purely business standpoint. From that perspective, one wouldn't want to risk Minecraft fans not buying the pass because Steve is the only character they care about. Better to add him early and let them think that the remaining fighters will be just as relevant to their interests.

Thinking about the pass that way, my anticipation for the last character has given way to an all-encompassing dread. Watch the last character be the default guy from Game Builder Garage.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Maybe, but NiGHTS would still need to be on the ground most of the time, which is not what the games are known for.

I think it's easier for me to see this kind of mechanic fit someone like Kat from Gravity Rush than NiGHTS, because it feels more like gravity manipulation than actual free flight.

...to be clear, my post isn't meant to say "stop wanting these characters, they wouldn't work", just that I have no clue where to even start with them lol.

Ehhh I disagree with the Kat comparison because she doesn't really fly, but rather change her point of gravity so that she falls in a different direction, basically yeeting herself in one given direction at a time, NiGHTS however would have full 8 directional movement damn near whenever they want, maybe they're similar enough mechanically but visually I see the two as radically different there.


Oh I didn't see it like that lmao, just had an excuse to talk about the idea as NiGHTS never comes up

 

[chocolatejr9]

But all Smash characters, minus the Earthbound reps and the original 2 FE characters, were in games available in all of the major regions at the time of the Smash game's release. I don't expect them to add Euden when European players would have to be forced to seek illegal methods just to play the game he hails from.

Dude, you're overthinking this. Europeans DO have a legal way to play the game. Why do you think we always make VPN jokes when it comes up?

 

[RileyXY1]

Dude, you're overthinking this. Europeans DO have a legal way to play the game. Why do you think we always make VPN jokes when it comes up?

I don't think that Nintendo wants to tell European players that they have to get a VPN just to play the game the fighter hails from.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Dude, you're overthinking this. Europeans DO have a legal way to play the game. Why do you think we always make VPN jokes when it comes up?

VPNs may be legal for the most part, apparantly they're illegal in some countries though I'm not too sure on that, but Nintendo telling people to get a VPN to get their game that doesn't comply with EU laws won't fly over well legally lmao

 

[3BitSaurus]

Ehhh I disagree with the Kat comparison because she doesn't really fly, but rather change her point of gravity so that she falls in a different direction, basically yeeting herself in one given direction at a time, NiGHTS however would have full 8 directional movement damn near whenever they want, maybe they're similar enough mechanically but visually I see the two as radically different there.


Oh I didn't see it like that lmao, just had an excuse to talk about the idea as NiGHTS never comes up

I meant it more in a sense of "staying airborne with a meter that refills on the ground", as that's pretty much what happens in the GR games.

What if it was tied to the neutral special instead? That way you keep other manouvers like the Paraloop as directional specials.

...I still think it would be weird and unfaithful to the series, but at least it sounds feasible at a glance lol.

And yeah, the last part wasn't specifically towards you, I just wanted to make it clear that this is just personal opinion/preference rather than me making an "unfit for Smash" argument.

 

[Speed Weed]

You know

shower thought

what if Sakurai including the Goku and Chao (Yuyuki) spirit was his own little stealth jab at all the Goku ballot votes

Ehhhhh, I don't think so

When you look at the bigger picture, Ultimate probably has the most comprehensive representation of Nintendo's IP library out of any Smash game. The cuts they made for the Spirits are insane. Not only is almost every minor Nintendo IP featured in a previous Smash game included here (with the exception of only a handful like Art Style and Doshin), but there's tons of other IPs that had never been repped in a Smash game before that they went back and included for the first time - and Yuyuki is one of these. The thing is, that makes it clear that they're not that special of an addition - I mean, yeah it's cool as **** that Yuyuki is being represented in Smash for the first time (even got a new remix!), but it's not like the lineup of minor IPs in Ultimate is just "series that were already repped before, and then Yuyuki". Again, they went all-in with representing Nintendo's history of properties to the most satisfying extent they ever have, and the addition of Goku and Chao is just another part of that. I don't think they added them for a fundamentally different reason than they added, say, Muddy Mole or the ST Falcon.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Incidentally, if they decided the cast of the second pass ahead of time, they probably had to put a lot of thought into the order of their release. If their motivation was supremely cynical, they'd put the biggest names at the front of the pass to sell the pass on the illusion of consistent hype, only to wrap it up with the obscure or safe characters that wouldn't sell as many passes on their own.

It's what they did with the first pass: Joker, Hero and BK sold passes, while Terry and Byleth snuck in as extras. If we ignore Min Min as a red herring, the second pass seems to be similar in that regard: Steve and Sephiroth raised expectations and got people buying passes, and Pyra/Mythra and Kazuya went along for the ride.

No offence to fans of these second-half fighters. I won't deny they're beloved characters represented well by their moveset and extra content. I merely believe that their arrangement in the pass only makes sense from a purely business standpoint. From that perspective, one wouldn't want to risk Minecraft fans not buying the pass because Steve is the only character they care about. Better to add him early and let them think that the remaining fighters will be just as relevant to their interests.

Thinking about the pass that way, my anticipation for the last character has given way to an all-encompassing dread. Watch the last character be the default guy from Game Builder Garage.

Hot take maybe but I think Kazuya would’ve been as well-received as Sepiroth if their positions were swapped and it was Kazuya following Steve. This whole “The best has already arrived” mindset is a self-fullfilling prophecy.

Dude, you're overthinking this. Europeans DO have a legal way to play the game. Why do you think we always make VPN jokes when it comes up?

Sakurai Presents: opens
”This video is sponsored by Nord VPN”

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Hot take maybe but I think Kazuya would’ve been as well-received as Sepiroth if their positions were swapped and it was Kazuya following Steve. This whole “The best has already arrived” mindset is a self-fullfilling prophecy.



Sakurai Presents: opens
”This video is sponsored by Nord VPN”

Wouldn't be the first time Sakurai mentioned non-Nintendo products in one of his presentations lmao

 

[volbound1700]

Yeah, the only ones who would never ever let a fully-owned first-party character appear on another platform (other than mobile phones) are Nintendo themselves. Absolutely can't see that one changing any time soon.

Can you blame them after the CDi disaster? Interestingly, before the Phillips CDi situation, Nintendo IP did appear on other platforms such as PC with the Mario learning games. It was also utilized in Saturday Morning Cartoons.

To be fair, Nintendo has allowed Third-Party companies such as Hudson Soft, Camelot, Ubisoft, Sega, and Komei-Tecmo (sp) utilize Nintendo IP but it is probably highly regulated and these companies are very professional about it.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Hot take maybe but I think Kazuya would’ve been as well-received as Sepiroth if their positions were swapped and it was Kazuya following Steve. This whole “The best has already arrived” mindset is a self-fullfilling prophecy.



Sakurai Presents: opens
”This video is sponsored by Nord VPN”

What’s next, a Raid Shadow Legends character as our last DLC?

…oh no

WHY DO I KEEP JINXING IT?!

 

[GilTheGreat19]

What’s next, a Raid Shadow Legends character as our last DLC?

…oh no

WHY DO I KEEP JINXING IT?!

Don't worry, its a big iconic game, the Smash fanbase will totally love the inclusion

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Sakurai Presents: opens
”This video is sponsored by Nord VPN”

For Japan, he'd probably advertise ExpressVPN instead.

 

[Yokta]

What’s next, a Raid Shadow Legends character as our last DLC?

…oh no

WHY DO I KEEP JINXING IT?!

Thank you for this. Now, no matter who gets chosen, we can say "At least it wasn't that."

 

[Perkilator]

I literally think your argument is equivalent to arguing all the mechanics I described are just "ouchie-boons"; therefore I propose we drop the topic because evidently our views are not reconcilible.

Agreed.

Who do you wish was in the Smash series roster, assuming you had no restrictions whatsoever? For me:

Spoiler: 64

Starters

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

Unlockables

• (Stage fought: Peach's Castle)
  • Complete 1P Game as any character
  • Complete Board the Platforms with
  • 25 Vs. Matches
• (Stage fought: Dream Land)
  • Complete 1P Game with 3+ lives and no continues
  • 50 Vs. Matches
• (Stage fought: Planet Zebes)
  • Complete 1P Game within 20 minutes without continues
  • 75 Vs. Matches
• (Meowth) (Stage fought: Saffron City)
  • Complete Target Test and Board the Platforms as all starters
  • Complete 1P Game as all starters
  • 100 Vs. Matches

Spoiler: Melee

Starters

1. 
2. 
3. 
4. 
5. 
6. 
7. 
8. 
9. 
10. 
11. 
12. 
13. 
14. /
15. (Scizor)

Unlockables

1. (Stage fought: Mushroom Kingdom II)
   • Complete Stage 1 of Adventure Mode with the time ending in a ":X2" in the second's slot, then defeat in less than a minute and clear the rest of the mode
   • 10 Vs. Matches on Mushroom Kingdom
   • 100 Vs. Matches
2. (Stage fought: Pokémon Stadium)
   • Complete Event Match #37
   • Summon 100 Poke Ball Pokémon
   • 200 Vs. Matches
3. Ayumi Tachibana (Stage fought: Onett)
   • Unlock 100 different Trophies
   • 300 Vs. Matches
4. (Stage fought: Battlefield)
   • Clear 100-Man Melee
   • 400 Vs. Matches
5. (Stage fought: Fountain of Dreams)
   • Clear Classic or Adventure Mode as all starters without continuing
   • Play Vs. Matches at least once with all 15 starters
   • 500 Vs. Matches
6. (Stage fought: Great Bay)
   • Clear Classic or Adventure Mode with 20 characters
   • Clear Classic Mode as on Hard+
   • 600 Vs. Matches
7. (Stage fought: Hyrule Temple)
   • Clear Event Match #29
   • Clear Adventure Mode as on Hard+
   • 700 Vs. Matches
8. (Stage fought: Final Destination)
   • Play for a total of 15 hours
   • Summon a Legendary Pokémon 75 times
   • 800 Vs. Matches
9. (Stage fought: Hyrule Temple)
   • Clear Classic or Adventure Mode as on Hard+ without continuing
   • Clear every bonus game in Classic Mode as
   • 900 Vs. Matches
10. (Stage fought: Flat Zone)
    • Clear Classic or Adventure Mode as all other characters
    • Clear Target Test as all other characters
    • Clear 50 Event Matches
    • 1000 Vs. Matches

Spoiler: Brawl

Starters

1. 
2. 
3. 
4. /
5. 
6. 
7. 
8. 
9. 
10. 
11. 
12. 
13. 
14. 
15. 
16. 
17. 
18. 
19. 
20. 
21. 
22. 

Unlockables

1. (Stage fought: Luigi's Mansion)
   • Recruit in SSE
   • Clear Classic Mode with no continues
   • 100 Vs. Matches
2. (Stage fought: Onett)
   • Recruit in SSE
   • Reflect 10 projectiles
   • 200 Vs. Matches
3. (Stage fought: )
   • Recruit in SSE
   • Clear Classic mode on Normal+ within 12 minutes
   • 300 Vs. Matches
4. (Stage fought: )
   • After beating SSE, head to the Ruined Zoo and run away from the Pig King Statue without losing a life; you'll fight Meowth instead of Porky, and winning ends the level there
   • Clear 20 Event Matches
   • 400 Vs. Matches
5. (Stage fought: Corneria)
   • Recruit in SSE
   • Clear 100-Man Brawl
   • 500 Vs. Matches
6. (Stage fought: )
   • Recruit in SSE
   • Clear Classic Mode on Normal+ as any character
   • 600 Vs. Matches
7. (Stage fought: )
   • Recruit in SSE
   • Clear Classic Mode as on Hard+
   • 700 Vs. Matches
8. (Stage fought: Pokémon Stadium)
   • After beating SSE, head to the end of the Path to the Ruins without losing a life; you'll fight Mewtwo instead of Wario
   • Clear Boss Battles on Hard+
   • 800 Vs. Matches
9. (Stage fought: Temple)
   • After beating SSE, head to the end of the Wilds I without losing a life; you'll fight Roy instead of Galleom
   • Clear Classic Mode as on Hard+
   • 900 Vs. Matches
10. (Stage fought: )
    • Recruit in SSE
    • Clear Target Smash with 20+ characters
    • 1000 Vs. Matches
11. (Stage fought: )
    • Defeat Tabuu in SSE
    • Clear Classic Mode with 10+ characters
    • Play 10 hours of Vs. Matches
    • 1100 Vs. Matches
12. (Stage fought: )
    • Recruit in SSE
    • Complete Target Smash on all difficulties with any character
    • Get 5 KO's in Cruel Brawl
    • 1200 Vs. Matches
13. (Stage fought: Mario Bros.)
    • Recruit in SSE
    • Collect 200 different Trophies
    • 1300 Vs. Matches
14. (Stage fought: )
    • After beating SSE, head to the Lake; you'll fight Toon Link instead of Rayquaza, and winning ends the level there
    • Clear Classic Mode as without continuing
    • 1400 Vs. Matches
15. (Stage fought: )
    • After beating SSE, head to the end of the Glacier without losing a life; you'll fight Wolf instead of Meta Knight/Lucario
    • Clear Boss Battles on any difficulty
    • 1500 Vs. Matches

Spoiler: Smash 4 (Base)

Starters

1. 
2. 
3. 
4. 
5. 
6. 
7. 
8. 
9. 
10. 
11. 
12. 
13. 
14. 
15. 
16. 
17. 
18. 
19. 
20. 
21. 
22. 
23. 
24. Snivy
25. 
26. 
27. 
28. 
29. 
    • 
    • 
    • 
30. 
31. 
32. 

Unlockables

1. (Stage fought: Magicant / Onett)
   • Reflect 10 projectiles
   • Clear Classic Mode on 2.0+
   • 10 Vs. Matches
2. (Stage fought: Unova Pokémon League / Kalos Pokémon League)
   • Defeat 100 enemies in Smash Run (3DS only)
   • Collect at least 50 different pieces of equippment
   • 20 Vs. Matches
3. (Stage fought: Prism Tower / Kalos Pokémon League)
   • Summon a Poké Ball Pokémon 100 times
   • Summon a Master Ball Pokémon 50 times
   • 30 Vs. Matches
4. (Stage fought: Corneria / Orbital Gate Assault)
   • Clear 100-Man Smash
   • 40 Vs. Matches
5. (Stage fought: Gerudo Valley / Skyloft)
   • Clear Classic Mode as on 5.5+
   • 50 Vs. Matches
6. (Stage fought: )
   • Clear Classic Mode with 10+ characters
   • 60 Vs. Matches
7. (Stage fought: Dream Land GB/ )
   • Get 5 KO's in Cruel Smash
   • 70 Vs. Matches
8. (Stage fought: Brinstar / Pyrosphere)
   • Get 30 KO's with Samus's Final Smash
   • Defeat Ridley on the Pyrosphere stage (Wii U only)
   • 80 Vs. Matches
9. (Stage fought: Unova Pokémon League / Hyrule Temple)
   • Get 30 combined KO's with 's and 's Final Smashes
   • Outlast to up to 300% damage
   • 90 Vs. Matches
10. (Stage fought: Golden Plains / Mario Galaxy)
    • Get a successful recovery as 5 times
    • 100 Vs. Matches
11. (Stage fought: Prism Tower / Kalos Pokémon League)
    • Clear Classic Mode as and Snivy on 6.0+
    • Clear a Final Battle in Smash Run without taking damage
    • 125 Vs. Matches
12. (Stage fought: Reset Bomb Forest / Palutena's Temple)
    • Clear Classic Mode as and on 5.5+
    • 150 Vs. Matches
13. (Stage fought: PAC-MAZE / PAC-LAND)
    • Clear Classic Mode as on 5.5+
    • Eat 50 Ghosts on PAC-MAZE (3DS only)
    • 200 Vs. Matches
14. (Stage fought: Arena Ferox / Coliseum)
    • Clear Classic Mode as on 5.5+
    • Clear Classic Mode as on 5.5+
    • 300 Vs. Matches
15. (Stage fought: 3D Land / Delfino Plaza)
    • Clear Classic Mode as on 6.0+
    • Clear Classic Mode as on 6.0+
    • 400 Vs. Matches
16. (Stage fought: Duck Hunt)
    • Clear Target Blast as all other characters
    • Clear Classic Mode as all other characters on 6.0+
    • Unlock every Masterpiece (Wii U only)
    • 500 Vs. Matches

Spoiler: Smash 4 (DLC)

DLC Pack 1

1. 
2. Ayumi Tachibana
   • Stage: Fourside

DLC Pack 2

1. 
   • Stage: Suzaku Castle
2. 
   • Stage: New Pork City (Wii U only)

DLC Pack 3

1. 
   • Stage: Midgar
2. 

DLC Pack 4

1. (Azura)
   • Stage: Opera House (3DS only)
2. 
   • Stage Umbra Clock Tower

Spoiler: Ultimate (Base)

64

• 1.
• 2.
• 3.
• 4.
  • 4ε.
• 5.
• 6.
• 7.
• 8.
• 9.
• 10.
• 11.
• 12.

Melee

• 13.
  • 13ε.
• 14.
• 15.
• 16.
• 17.
• 18.
• 19. Ayumi Tachibana
• 20.
• 21.
• 22.
• 23.
• 24.
• 25.
• 26.

Brawl

• 27.
• 28.
  • 28ε.
• 29.
• 30.
• 31.
• 32.
  • 32ε.
• 33.
• 34.
• 35.
• 36.
  • 36ε. Shadow
• 37.
• 38.
  • 38ε. (Alph)
• 39.
• 40.
• 41.
• 42.

Smash 4

• 43. Snivy
• 44.
• 45.
• 46.
• 47.
• 48.
• 49.
• 
  • 50.
  • 51.
  • 52.
• 53.
• 54.
• 55.
• 56.
• 57.
• 58.
• 59.
  • 59ε. (Echo)
• 60.
• 61.
• 62.

Newcomers

• 63.
• 64.
  • 64ε.
• 65. Crash Bandicoot
• 66.
• 67.
• 68.
• 69.
• 70. Bandana Waddle Dee

Spoiler: Starters

1. 
2. 
3. 
4. 
5. 
6. 
7. 
8. 
9. 
10. 
11. 
12. 
13. 
14. 
15. Crash
16. 
17. 
18. 
19. 
20. Bandana Waddle Dee
21. 

Spoiler: Fighters Pass Vol. 1

• 71. Sakura Shinguji
  • Stage: Grand Imperial Theater
• 72.
  • Stage: Yggdrasil's Altar
• 73.
  • Stage: Spiral Mountain
• 74.
  • Stage: King of Fighters Stadium
• 75. Sora
  • Stage: Station of Awakening

Spoiler: Fighters Pass Vol. 2

• 76.
  • Stage: Spring Stadium
• 77. Sir Arthur
  • Stage: Demon Village
• 78.
  • Stage: Northern Cave
• 79-80. /
  • Stage: Cloud Sea of Alrest
• 81.
  • Stage: Mishima Dojo
• 82. Dr. Eggman
  • Stage: Studiopolis Zone

 

[Quick Gaming (QG)]

If we got a new Smash Ballot but for Mii Costumes who would you all request?

Shovel Knight

 

[spicynun]

If we got a new Smash Ballot but for Mii Costumes who would you all request?

Klonoa (With the full head). I can't see a fighter ever happening so I'll take what I can get. Also Vyse from Skies of Arcadia.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Hot take maybe but I think Kazuya would’ve been as well-received as Sepiroth if their positions were swapped and it was Kazuya following Steve. This whole “The best has already arrived” mindset is a self-fullfilling prophecy.

Maybe? I kind of think Smash fans were more aware that Sephiroth was one of FFVII's main characters than Kazuya was one of Tekken's, seeing as how Tekken support dropped like a brick with barely any "Maybe they could still do Jin or Kazuya?" in sight after the Heihachi costume, and Smash fans' reputation for not knowing traditional FGs.

 

[Gengar84]

Agreed.

Who do you wish was in the Smash series roster, assuming you had no restrictions whatsoever? For me:

Spoiler: 64

Starters

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

Unlockables

• (Stage fought: Peach's Castle)
  • Complete 1P Game as any character
  • Complete Board the Platforms with
  • 25 Vs. Matches
• (Stage fought: Dream Land)
  • Complete 1P Game with 3+ lives and no continues
  • 50 Vs. Matches
• (Stage fought: Planet Zebes)
  • Complete 1P Game within 20 minutes without continues
  • 75 Vs. Matches
• (Meowth) (Stage fought: Saffron City)
  • Complete Target Test and Board the Platforms as all starters
  • Complete 1P Game as all starters
  • 100 Vs. Matches

Spoiler: Melee

Starters

1. 
2. 
3. 
4. 
5. 
6. 
7. 
8. 
9. 
10. 
11. 
12. 
13. 
14. /
15. (Scizor)

Unlockables

1. (Stage fought: Mushroom Kingdom II)
   • Complete Stage 1 of Adventure Mode with the time ending in a ":X2" in the second's slot, then defeat in less than a minute and clear the rest of the mode
   • 10 Vs. Matches on Mushroom Kingdom
   • 100 Vs. Matches
2. (Stage fought: Pokémon Stadium)
   • Complete Event Match #37
   • Summon 100 Poke Ball Pokémon
   • 200 Vs. Matches
3. Ayumi Tachibana (Stage fought: Onett)
   • Unlock 100 different Trophies
   • 300 Vs. Matches
4. (Stage fought: Battlefield)
   • Clear 100-Man Melee
   • 400 Vs. Matches
5. (Stage fought: Fountain of Dreams)
   • Clear Classic or Adventure Mode as all starters without continuing
   • Play Vs. Matches at least once with all 15 starters
   • 500 Vs. Matches
6. (Stage fought: Great Bay)
   • Clear Classic or Adventure Mode with 20 characters
   • Clear Classic Mode as on Hard+
   • 600 Vs. Matches
7. (Stage fought: Hyrule Temple)
   • Clear Event Match #29
   • Clear Adventure Mode as on Hard+
   • 700 Vs. Matches
8. (Stage fought: Final Destination)
   • Play for a total of 15 hours
   • Summon a Legendary Pokémon 75 times
   • 800 Vs. Matches
9. (Stage fought: Hyrule Temple)
   • Clear Classic or Adventure Mode as on Hard+ without continuing
   • Clear every bonus game in Classic Mode as
   • 900 Vs. Matches
10. (Stage fought: Flat Zone)
    • Clear Classic or Adventure Mode as all other characters
    • Clear Target Test as all other characters
    • Clear 50 Event Matches
    • 1000 Vs. Matches

Spoiler: Brawl

Starters

1. 
2. 
3. 
4. /
5. 
6. 
7. 
8. 
9. 
10. 
11. 
12. 
13. 
14. 
15. 
16. 
17. 
18. 
19. 
20. 
21. 
22. 

Unlockables

1. (Stage fought: Luigi's Mansion)
   • Recruit in SSE
   • Clear Classic Mode with no continues
   • 100 Vs. Matches
2. (Stage fought: Onett)
   • Recruit in SSE
   • Reflect 10 projectiles
   • 200 Vs. Matches
3. (Stage fought: )
   • Recruit in SSE
   • Clear Classic mode on Normal+ within 12 minutes
   • 300 Vs. Matches
4. (Stage fought: )
   • After beating SSE, head to the Ruined Zoo and run away from the Pig King Statue without losing a life; you'll fight Meowth instead of Porky, and winning ends the level there
   • Clear 20 Event Matches
   • 400 Vs. Matches
5. (Stage fought: Corneria)
   • Recruit in SSE
   • Clear 100-Man Brawl
   • 500 Vs. Matches
6. (Stage fought: )
   • Recruit in SSE
   • Clear Classic Mode on Normal+ as any character
   • 600 Vs. Matches
7. (Stage fought: )
   • Recruit in SSE
   • Clear Classic Mode as on Hard+
   • 700 Vs. Matches
8. (Stage fought: Pokémon Stadium)
   • After beating SSE, head to the end of the Path to the Ruins without losing a life; you'll fight Mewtwo instead of Wario
   • Clear Boss Battles on Hard+
   • 800 Vs. Matches
9. (Stage fought: Temple)
   • After beating SSE, head to the end of the Wilds I without losing a life; you'll fight Roy instead of Galleom
   • Clear Classic Mode as on Hard+
   • 900 Vs. Matches
10. (Stage fought: )
    • Recruit in SSE
    • Clear Target Smash with 20+ characters
    • 1000 Vs. Matches
11. (Stage fought: )
    • Defeat Tabuu in SSE
    • Clear Classic Mode with 10+ characters
    • Play 10 hours of Vs. Matches
    • 1100 Vs. Matches
12. (Stage fought: )
    • Recruit in SSE
    • Complete Target Smash on all difficulties with any character
    • Get 5 KO's in Cruel Brawl
    • 1200 Vs. Matches
13. (Stage fought: Mario Bros.)
    • Recruit in SSE
    • Collect 200 different Trophies
    • 1300 Vs. Matches
14. (Stage fought: )
    • After beating SSE, head to the Lake; you'll fight Toon Link instead of Rayquaza, and winning ends the level there
    • Clear Classic Mode as without continuing
    • 1400 Vs. Matches
15. (Stage fought: )
    • After beating SSE, head to the end of the Glacier without losing a life; you'll fight Wolf instead of Meta Knight/Lucario
    • Clear Boss Battles on any difficulty
    • 1500 Vs. Matches

Spoiler: Smash 4 (Base)

Starters

1. 
2. 
3. 
4. 
5. 
6. 
7. 
8. 
9. 
10. 
11. 
12. 
13. 
14. 
15. 
16. 
17. 
18. 
19. 
20. 
21. 
22. 
23. 
24. Snivy
25. 
26. 
27. 
28. 
29. 
    • 
    • 
    • 
30. 
31. 
32. 

Unlockables

1. (Stage fought: Magicant / Onett)
   • Reflect 10 projectiles
   • Clear Classic Mode on 2.0+
   • 10 Vs. Matches
2. (Stage fought: Unova Pokémon League / Kalos Pokémon League)
   • Defeat 100 enemies in Smash Run (3DS only)
   • Collect at least 50 different pieces of equippment
   • 20 Vs. Matches
3. (Stage fought: Prism Tower / Kalos Pokémon League)
   • Summon a Poké Ball Pokémon 100 times
   • Summon a Master Ball Pokémon 50 times
   • 30 Vs. Matches
4. (Stage fought: Corneria / Orbital Gate Assault)
   • Clear 100-Man Smash
   • 40 Vs. Matches
5. (Stage fought: Gerudo Valley / Skyloft)
   • Clear Classic Mode as on 5.5+
   • 50 Vs. Matches
6. (Stage fought: )
   • Clear Classic Mode with 10+ characters
   • 60 Vs. Matches
7. (Stage fought: Dream Land GB/ )
   • Get 5 KO's in Cruel Smash
   • 70 Vs. Matches
8. (Stage fought: Brinstar / Pyrosphere)
   • Get 30 KO's with Samus's Final Smash
   • Defeat Ridley on the Pyrosphere stage (Wii U only)
   • 80 Vs. Matches
9. (Stage fought: Unova Pokémon League / Hyrule Temple)
   • Get 30 combined KO's with 's and 's Final Smashes
   • Outlast to up to 300% damage
   • 90 Vs. Matches
10. (Stage fought: Golden Plains / Mario Galaxy)
    • Get a successful recovery as 5 times
    • 100 Vs. Matches
11. (Stage fought: Prism Tower / Kalos Pokémon League)
    • Clear Classic Mode as and Snivy on 6.0+
    • Clear a Final Battle in Smash Run without taking damage
    • 125 Vs. Matches
12. (Stage fought: Reset Bomb Forest / Palutena's Temple)
    • Clear Classic Mode as and on 5.5+
    • 150 Vs. Matches
13. (Stage fought: PAC-MAZE / PAC-LAND)
    • Clear Classic Mode as on 5.5+
    • Eat 50 Ghosts on PAC-MAZE (3DS only)
    • 200 Vs. Matches
14. (Stage fought: Arena Ferox / Coliseum)
    • Clear Classic Mode as on 5.5+
    • Clear Classic Mode as on 5.5+
    • 300 Vs. Matches
15. (Stage fought: 3D Land / Delfino Plaza)
    • Clear Classic Mode as on 6.0+
    • Clear Classic Mode as on 6.0+
    • 400 Vs. Matches
16. (Stage fought: Duck Hunt)
    • Clear Target Blast as all other characters
    • Clear Classic Mode as all other characters on 6.0+
    • Unlock every Masterpiece (Wii U only)
    • 500 Vs. Matches

Spoiler: Smash 4 (DLC)

DLC Pack 1

1. 
2. Ayumi Tachibana
   • Stage: Fourside

DLC Pack 2

1. 
   • Stage: Suzaku Castle
2. 
   • Stage: New Pork City (Wii U only)

DLC Pack 3

1. 
   • Stage: Midgar
2. 

DLC Pack 4

1. (Azura)
   • Stage: Opera House (3DS only)
2. 
   • Stage Umbra Clock Tower

Spoiler: Ultimate (Base)

64

• 1.
• 2.
• 3.
• 4.
  • 4ε.
• 5.
• 6.
• 7.
• 8.
• 9.
• 10.
• 11.
• 12.

Melee

• 13.
  • 13ε.
• 14.
• 15.
• 16.
• 17.
• 18.
• 19. Ayumi Tachibana
• 20.
• 21.
• 22.
• 23.
• 24.
• 25.
• 26.

Brawl

• 27.
• 28.
  • 28ε.
• 29.
• 30.
• 31.
• 32.
  • 32ε.
• 33.
• 34.
• 35.
• 36.
  • 36ε. Shadow
• 37.
• 38.
  • 38ε. (Alph)
• 39.
• 40.
• 41.
• 42.

Smash 4

• 43. Snivy
• 44.
• 45.
• 46.
• 47.
• 48.
• 49.
• 
  • 50.
  • 51.
  • 52.
• 53.
• 54.
• 55.
• 56.
• 57.
• 58.
• 59.
  • 59ε. (Echo)
• 60.
• 61.
• 62.

Newcomers

• 63.
• 64.
  • 64ε.
• 65. Crash Bandicoot
• 66.
• 67.
• 68.
• 69.
• 70. Bandana Waddle Dee

Spoiler: Starters

1. 
2. 
3. 
4. 
5. 
6. 
7. 
8. 
9. 
10. 
11. 
12. 
13. 
14. 
15. Crash
16. 
17. 
18. 
19. 
20. Bandana Waddle Dee
21. 

Spoiler: Fighters Pass Vol. 1

• 71. Sakura Shinguji
  • Stage: Grand Imperial Theater
• 72.
  • Stage: Yggdrasil's Altar
• 73.
  • Stage: Spiral Mountain
• 74.
  • Stage: King of Fighters Stadium
• 75. Sora
  • Stage: Station of Awakening

Spoiler: Fighters Pass Vol. 2

• 76.
  • Stage: Ramen Bowl
• 77. Sir Arthur
  • Stage: Demon Village
• 78.
  • Stage: Northern Cave
• 79-80. /
  • Stage: Cloud Sea of Alrest
• 81.
  • Stage: Mishima Dojo
• 82. Dr. Eggman
  • Stage: Studiopolis Zone

I have a feeling no one would like my list. It would be full of personal favorite characters that don’t really have any business being in a Smash game lol.

 

[Quick Gaming (QG)]

I posted some thoughts about how I think Frisk could be a sleeper pick for the last slot but I posted it at 1 in the morning so I'm gonna go ahead and share again. Sorry to those that seen it if this is repetitive but it's been on my mind for a bit:

• Would continue the trend of franchises that previously missed out on playable status making it into FP2
• Would be the first true indie rep (is Steve considered an indie rep? Like I know Minecraft started as an indie game but it's one of the highest selling games of all time now, just don't tend to think Minecraft when I think indie anymore)
• Toby Fox claimed he visited Sakurai’s house, but they only negotiated a Mii costume and song with no spirits unlike Cuphead and Shantae? The lack of spirits is especially odd, considering Sakurai has talked positively about Undertale before
• Toby Fox in particular is tight with Nintendo and a big Smash fan, even referencing it in Deltarune
• Toby Fox has worked with Game Freak on Little Town Hero and SwSh, doing music for their games
• Could greatly help promote Deltarune, which was teased to be coming to Switch in a Nintendo Direct about a week or so before the PS4 version was revealed
• Undertale turns 6 years old this September
• Appeals to the west and Japan
• Undertale begins with Frisk falling down a pit, trailer could perhaps be a continuation of Kazuya’s for this reason
• Would offer a unique playstyle most likely revolving around alternating between pacifism and genocide
• The second fighter pass was confirmed earlier in the day of when Sans’ Mii costume was revealed
• The Mii costumes released alongside Frisk could be from other indie franchises such as Shovel Knight and DDLC, as well as other Undertale mii costumes and spirits

it's still a long shot considering it already got representation through Sans and Megalovania but idk the fact that it didn't get spirits like the other enhanced mii costumes seems odd

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I posted some thoughts about how I think Frisk could be a sleeper pick for the last slot but I posted it at 1 in the morning so I'm gonna go ahead and share again. Sorry to those that seen it if this is repetitive but it's been on my mind for a bit:

• Would continue the trend of franchises that previously missed out on playable status making it into FP2
• Would be the first true indie rep (is Steve considered an indie rep? Like I know Minecraft started as an indie game but it's one of the highest selling games of all time now, just don't tend to think Minecraft when I think indie anymore)
• Toby Fox claimed he visited Sakurai’s house, but they only negotiated a Mii costume and song with no spirits unlike Cuphead and Shantae? The lack of spirits is especially odd, considering Sakurai has talked positively about Undertale before
• Toby Fox in particular is tight with Nintendo and a big Smash fan, even referencing it in Deltarune
• Toby Fox has worked with Game Freak on Little Town Hero and SwSh, doing music for their games
• Could greatly help promote Deltarune, which was teased to be coming to Switch in a Nintendo Direct about a week or so before the PS4 version was revealed
• Undertale turns 6 years old this September
• Appeals to the west and Japan
• Undertale begins with Frisk falling down a pit, trailer could perhaps be a continuation of Kazuya’s for this reason
• Would offer a unique playstyle most likely revolving around alternating between pacifism and genocide
• The second fighter pass was confirmed earlier in the day of when Sans’ Mii costume was revealed
• The Mii costumes released alongside Frisk could be from other indie franchises such as Shovel Knight and DDLC, as well as other Undertale mii costumes and spirits

it's still a long shot considering it already got representation through Sans and Megalovania but idk the fact that it didn't get spirits like the other enhanced mii costumes seems odd

I could see it happening, although most of the evidence leans towards circumstantial. No Spirits is odd, although I wonder how many Spirits Cuphead has in the first place, I don’t think it was so much that the discrepancy is too glaring to ignore.

 

[Technomage]

very few custom moves to work with

Yeah, the lack of custom moves does make the Miis go stale sooner.

With that said, what custom moves would you add? Since all of the Mii Gunner's Up B moves perform recovery using its arm cannon, that doesn't leave that much for creativity or variety there; I did, however, come up with a possible fourth Up B, and it's a tether recovery fired from the cannon.

 

[Quick Gaming (QG)]

I could see it happening, although most of the evidence leans towards circumstantial. No Spirits is odd, although I wonder how many Spirits Cuphead has in the first place, I don’t think it was so much that the discrepancy is too glaring to ignore.

I believe it was 4? Cuphead, Mugman, King Dice and The Devil I think

 

[Technomage]

If we got a new Smash Ballot but for Mii Costumes who would you all request?

Krystal (Adventures outfit) as a Swordfighter
Krystal (Assault outfit) as a Gunner
Imperial (from Etrian Odyssey) as a Swordfighter
Freddy Fazbear as a Brawler
Bubsy as a Brawler
Astolfo as a Swordfighter

 

[Inferno7]

See the thing I keep trying to tell myself is “What reason would Nintendo have for choosing this?”

because at the end of the day that’s probably the most important thing to remember in regards to speculation. The characters are being chosen for reasons, so what would those reasons be?

Yeah this
There's a reason why most of the 3rd parties come from huge franchises, with the only outliers being Terry and the ballot winners like Banjo & Bayo. It's simply because it's the more profitable option and there will be more people associated with said IPs who'll get to buy the game, also the whole ''Ultimate'' crossover thing.
Which is why I'm surprised at some of the predictions going around here

 

[Twilord]

How would you all feel about getting spirit-boards without getting characters?

Do you think you'd personally enjoy that more or less than Mii-Costumes?

 

[Quick Gaming (QG)]

Yeah this
There's a reason why most of the 3rd parties come from huge franchises, with the only outliers being Terry and the ballot winners like Banjo & Bayo. It's simply because it's the more profitable option and there will be more people associated with said IPs who'll get to buy the game, also the whole ''Ultimate'' crossover thing.
Which is why I'm surprised at some of the predictions going around here

And even Terry makes sense, since I believe Sakurai was first inspired to make Smash after he beat a couple in Fatal Fury

 

[Technomage]

How would you all feel about getting spirit-boards without getting characters?

Do you think you'd personally enjoy that more or less than Mii-Costumes?

Personally, I'd at least enjoy getting more content to work toward completing the game; plus, since I've acquired a lot of resources (such as coins and Spirit Points), I could use some extra stuff to spend them on (though I would like to get more spirits that appear on the regular spirit board and not one of the special ones, since that way I could use more of my items, which I have a lot of).

 

[osby]

How would you all feel about getting spirit-boards without getting characters?

Do you think you'd personally enjoy that more or less than Mii-Costumes?

Depends on which costumes are you talking about. I still use some of my favorite DLC costumes to this day regularly. Meanwhile, I rarely return to a Spirit Board's contents, unless one of the Spirits is really useful.

 

[volbound1700]

Interesting, it sounds like Satoru Iwata also had a HUGE part in the initial development of Smash Bros. Sakurai speaks of it but Iwata generally doesn't get enough credit for his involvement as well.

It was kind of a side project that both were working on that turned into a major release. They actually added the Nintendo characters before they had permission to do it.

 

[spicynun]

How would you all feel about getting spirit-boards without getting characters?

Do you think you'd personally enjoy that more or less than Mii-Costumes?

Enjoy it less. Spirit battles are cool but ultimately it's just an image of the character. At least with the mii costume I can pretend like I'm playing as them

 

[Quick Gaming (QG)]

Interesting, it sounds like Satoru Iwata also had a HUGE part in the initial development of Smash Bros. Sakurai speaks of it but Iwata generally doesn't get enough credit for his involvement as well.

It was kind of a side project that both were working on that turned into a major release. They actually added the Nintendo characters before they had permission to do it.

I believe Ultimate has been the only one developed without his involvement

 

[PeridotGX]

How would you all feel about getting spirit-boards without getting characters?

Do you think you'd personally enjoy that more or less than Mii-Costumes?

I'd be down for a few of those, assuming their price isn't too crazy ($.50-$1.50 USD would be acceptable). I don't think they should replace mii costumes, though.

What I'd really want are a few new stages. Smash 4 was perfect with this, a stage (plus all the new music) for $2-3 is a pretty good deal. Given the meager amount of new stages in the base game, DLC would be an excellent way to rectify it (and make money).

 

[Rie Sonomura]

If we got a new Smash Ballot but for Mii Costumes who would you all request?

Ori, Monokuma, Gunvolt, the Knight from Hollow Knight

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I believe Ultimate has been the only one developed without his involvement

Technically that's wrong, the ballot was cited to be Iwata's idea and it influenced Ultimate a lot

How would you all feel about getting spirit-boards without getting characters?

Do you think you'd personally enjoy that more or less than Mii-Costumes?

It depends really as I do really like Spiriy Battles due to the insane detail on them, like Shanoa's referencing an optional power up that's stupidly hard to get. In the case of my most wanted though, I'd prefer a Mii as Miriam's an indie, meaning she'd get a song lmao

 

[Inferno7]

How would you all feel about getting spirit-boards without getting characters?

Do you think you'd personally enjoy that more or less than Mii-Costumes?

I'd rather get music before a costume or even whole spirit boards, at least I'll get to use them more and they have replay value
Ngl when I say I'd trade every single DLC mii costume just to have something like Bury the Light in this game
Edit: about your question, I don't think a bunch of .png's would make that much of a difference, but I'd slightly prefer them I guess

 

[Bobthealligator]

If we got a new Smash Ballot but for Mii Costumes who would you all request?

Ooh, this is a fun one. I think some of these have a decent shot to be mii costumes with the last fighter but:
The Knight, Phoenix, Doomguy

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Ooh, this is a fun one. I think some of these have a decent shot to be mii costumes with the last fighter but:
The Knight, Phoenix, Doomguy

I wonder how many ****posts they'd be of Cacomallow if Doomguy ends up getting a Mii Costume considering Geno has one.