Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Faso115]

Sephiroth’s reach

I think this argument is a bigger reach.

The only unique things i noticed about Seph is how his projectiles work and how his FS induce status effects like in canon, which i pretty unique FS considering most of them are a dumb cutscene that hits hard or occassionally allow the character to instant-kill at 100% or higher.

 

[Quick Gaming (QG)]

This isn't true, the new game is an expansion of a side mode, like how Kirby tends to get expanded versions of minigames like Team Kirby Clash Deluxe, Kirby Fighters Deluxe, Blowout Blast Deluxe and Dedede Drum Dash Deluxe

Let me rephrase: based on hints and the game getting an M rating, people are speculating there’s more to it and that it’s a mainline entry. Regardless it doesn’t change the fact that it’s a console exclusive

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I see what you mean about Okami but what other big Sega franchises are there that’s still getting games? Yakuza?

I'd say Phantasy Star and Puyo Puyo should at the very least be on that list

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Konami: Metal Gear, Castlevania
SEGA: Sonic, Bayonetta, Joker (Atlus)
Capcom: Mega Man, Street Fighter
Bandai Namco: Pac-Man, Tekken
Square-Enix: Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest
Microsoft: Banjo-Kazooie, Minecraft (Mojang)
SNK: Fatal Fury

See this is kinda why I always had trouble seeing the likes of Okami or Super Monkey Ball getting characters. When you look at the third party companies included, they're repped by their biggest and most popular series, and also their mascots (like Terry for SNK). The main exceptions being the ones that had heavy fan demand from the ballot, like Banjo and Bayonetta.

I interpreted Okami as a dark horse due to its awkward placement on the picture.

I see what you mean about Okami but what other big Sega franchises are there that’s still getting games? Yakuza?

Puyo Puyo I think is another big series of them, not sure.

 

[Twilord]

Spike Chunsoft (the company that makes Danganronpa) has made all the Pokemon Mystery Dungeon games and Danganronpa is getting a new mainline game exclusively for Switch later this year. Plus they keep saying Danganronpa has more planned for it’s anniversary, even after revealing the new mainline entry. I was mainly including characters that come from people or companies that are close with Nintendo (Sega, Capcom, ATLUS, Spike Chunsoft, etc). The only reason Crash is listed is because of Dante’s Mii costume getting in due to fan demand, otherwise I wouldn’t have included him

Ah, thanks for the clarification

Also what would the trainer offer new? Every DLC character (at least in this wave) has offered something unique in their movesets (Min Min’s arms being used in place of typical special moves, Steve’s crafting and block placing, Sephiroth’s reach, Pythra bringing back character swapping and having all kinds of unique special moves and Kazuya being Kazuya). I don’t see what the trainer would offer that isn’t already covered by Pokemon Trainer

Well that kind of depends on the execution. Its entirely possible they'd simply be 'three times the character to end on' while giving Pokémon more cross-generational love.

Although I could also picture them (given the nature of their game) being a trainer you actually play as. Bicycle, Escape Rope, Historic Pokéball as a command grab; the greater emphasis on the overworld seems like it would lend itself to that.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Let me rephrase: based on hints and the game getting an M rating, people are speculating there’s more to it and that it’s a mainline entry. Regardless it doesn’t change the fact that it’s a console exclusive

My point is that it's a spinoff, not mainline. I was merely correcting you on that part. The sidemodes feature the same crude and raunchy style as the main games iirc so I'm not too surprised on the rating tbh

 

[Bobthealligator]

Foresight.

Foresight is the same as Bat Within

 

[Quick Gaming (QG)]

My point is that it's a spinoff, not mainline. I was merely correcting you on that part. The sidemodes feature the same crude and raunchy style as the main games iirc so I'm not too surprised on the rating tbh

Well yes but one of the reasons for its M rating is blood and violence or something to that effect

 

[Twilord]

Pokemon Trainer already brought character swapping back. Pyra/Mythra don't offer anything new.

Eh, I don't know - the mechanics function very different between the two beyond just having a different number of forms.

By having Pyra/Mythra paradoxically being more similar in a way that clearly defines the differences; almost like a refined fusion of Monado Arts and Pokémon Swap.

 

[3BitSaurus]

The issue I have with a some Sega games is that some of them play in such different and creative ways that it's kinda hard to make a moveset for the characters without botching what makes them so interesting in the first place.

Like, how do you make a moveset representing Monkey Ball? Sure, the whole "you're actually tilting the stage instead of moving AiAi" thing can be dealt with, but then do we just pull from the Banana Blitz minigames for normals or something?

How do you make NiGHTS ground-bound like other characters when what makes the games so good are the flight mechanics? Do you just slap on a buffed Glide and call it a day?

What about B. D. Joe? Would he need a moveset made from scratch, like Falcon and the Star Fox crew?

To be clear here: I would buy the **** out of a stage or music pack with content from all these games... but I'm not so sure about characters. Maybe someone out there has some good ideas, but so far I'm not sure it would work.

 

[Speed Weed]

I see what you mean about Okami but what other big Sega franchises are there that’s still getting games? Yakuza?

Phantasy Star and Puyo Puyo have kept getting games for a while now, Sakura Wars, Virtua Fighter and Streets of Rage are major series that just came back (though VF is likely out of the running for now), there's also SMT, and so on

And even then, it's not like a series has to have had a game recently to merit being in Smash. It's not like all gaming franchises have this timer where, after a certain amount of time passes without a new game, suddenly none of its legacy matters anymore.

Frankly I'm just tired of the narrative that SEGA only have, like, 2-3 important IPs

 

[RileyXY1]

Not to be a jerk but how is Monokuma likely? Also you really should have more first parties on there if you really want the most likely ones. If I had to guess, Legendary Trainer from Legends Arceus.

I can't see that happening unless Legends Arceus introduces completely brand new Pokemon. Otherwise a Spirit Board for them would be indistinguishable from a Spirit Board for DP in general.

 

[Quick Gaming (QG)]

Phantasy Star and Puyo Puyo have kept getting games for a while now, Sakura Wars, Virtua Fighter and Streets of Rage are major series that just came back (though VF is likely out of the running for now), there's also SMT, and so on

And even then, it's not like a series has to have had a game recently to merit being in Smash. It's not like all gaming franchises have this timer where, after a certain amount of time passes without a new game, suddenly none of its legacy matters anymore.

Frankly I'm just tired of the narrative that SEGA only have, like, 2-3 important IPs

I admittedly wasn’t aware Puyo Puyo was by Sega and feel kind of dumb. I was aware of Streets of Rage, but I recall they hired other people to make that revival game right?

 

[Gengar84]

If you think about it, almost all of us, including myself, will be wrong about who makes it in as the final character. Everyone has their own preferences and opinions so there isn’t much point in flat out saying that something definitely will or won’t happen.

My feeling is that we will probably get a character that isn’t commonly speculated on.

Here are some of my thoughts on what we could get (which are probably all wrong lol):

1) An NES era retro character like Bill Rizer or the Battletoads

We haven’t had a retro character in either pass so far so I feel like this would offer a lot of variety from what we’ve had so far.

2) A Dynasty Warriors character like Lu Bu

Koei-Tecmo has a great relationship with Nintendo and Warriors spin-offs seem to be gaining in popularity recently. There was also a rumor that KT had some involvement in Ultimate and we haven’t really seen anything yet.

3) A Blizzard character like Kerrigan, Arthas, or Diablo

Everyone is expecting Crash and so far we’ve been getting characters that are somewhat close to what people are predicting but not the exact character. I think Blizzard’s games are just as iconic as Crash and are being overlooked.

4) Dixie Kong (either paired with Kiddy or using the animal buddies)

We have barely any Tropical Freeze or DKC 3 content in Smash. There were also rumors of a new DK game in development. Finally, neither DK or Diddy really represent the mechanics of the original trilogy.

5) A Mortal Kombat character like Scorpion or Sub-Zero

Most people see this as an impossibility which is exactly why I think it might happen. Sakurai also said not to expect the next fighter for a while and we know fighting game characters are very detailed and likely take longer than other characters to develop.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Foresight.

Bat within.

You ignored the part where I said they offer their own unique moves not seen in Smash as well like their side b’s as an example

Octaslash

Eh, I don't know - the mechanics function very different between the two beyond just having a different number of forms.

By having Pyra/Mythra paradoxically being more similar in a way that clearly defines the differences; almost like a refined fusion of Monado Arts and Pokémon Swap.

Swap and Pokemon Change are functionally identical.

 

[Quick Gaming (QG)]

If you think about it, almost all of us, including myself, will be wrong about who makes it in as the final character. Everyone has their own preferences and opinions so there isn’t much point in flat out saying that something definitely will or won’t happen.

My feeling is that we will probably get a character that isn’t commonly speculated on.

Here are some of my thoughts on what we could get (which are probably all wrong lol):

1) An NES era retro character like Bill Rizer or the Battletoads

We haven’t had a retro character in either pass so far so I feel like this would offer a lot of variety from what we’ve had so far.

2) A Dynasty Warriors character like Lu Bu

Koei-Tecmo has a great relationship with Nintendo and Warriors spin-offs seem to be gaining in popularity recently. There was also a rumor that KT had some involvement in Ultimate and we haven’t really seen anything yet.

3) A Blizzard character like Kerrigan, Arthas, or Diablo

Everyone is expecting Crash and so far we’ve been getting characters that are somewhat close to what people are predicting but not the exact character. I think Blizzard’s games are just as iconic as Crash and are being overlooked.

4) Dixie Kong (either paired with Kiddy or using the animal buddies)

We have barely any Tropical Freeze or DKC 3 content in Smash. There were also rumors of a new DK game in development. Finally, neither DK or Diddy really represent the mechanics of the original trilogy.

5) A Mortal Kombat character like Scorpion or Sub-Zero

Most people see this as an impossibility which is exactly why I think it might happen. Sakurai also said not to expect the next fighter for a while and we know fighting game characters are very detailed and likely take longer than other characters to develop.

See the thing I keep trying to tell myself is “What reason would Nintendo have for choosing this?”

because at the end of the day that’s probably the most important thing to remember in regards to speculation. The characters are being chosen for reasons, so what would those reasons be?

 

[3BitSaurus]

Phantasy Star and Puyo Puyo have kept getting games for a while now, Sakura Wars, Virtua Fighter and Streets of Rage are major series that just came back (though VF is likely out of the running for now), there's also SMT, and so on

And even then, it's not like a series has to have had a game recently to merit being in Smash. It's not like all gaming franchises have this timer where, after a certain amount of time passes without a new game, suddenly none of its legacy matters anymore.

Frankly I'm just tired of the narrative that SEGA only have, like, 2-3 important IPs

To be fair, I do think this is the best that some Sega IPs have eaten in a good few years.

Between the Alex Kidd remake, SoR4, Panzer Dragoon, the Monkey Ball remakes and collections, and the VF project, it looks like Sega is more willing to touch some of their legacy IPs than they've been in a while.

Gives me hope for Billy Hatcher and Skies of Arcadia. Maybe Samba de Amigo and Fantasy Zone while we're at it.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Foresight is the same as Bat Within

It's not though. It's more like Witch Time + Bat Within as it slows the opponent down when you use it, causing more punish options.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Swap is functionally the same as Zelda/Sheik was. Pokemon Trainer doesn't work the same way, because it auto-changes at death, something Swap doesn't do. It also rotates among three, where you swap between two. Near identical concept, though.

They're tangibly different, but in practice, actually a lot more different. There's smaller things like no momentum is lost while swapping, different invincibility frames, but the core difference is just the character order(which does matter in match-ups).

 

[volbound1700]

This is also a list of all third party IPs that have at least one game that sold more than 1 million copies in Japan. I put them in order taking into account their best-selling game. Also, I will discard any sports/racing game or IPs whose origin are not from a videogame.

1) Monster Hunter (MH Freedom 3, PSP, 2010, Capcom, 5.3 millions)
2) Dragon Quest (DQ IX, NDS, 2009, Square-Enix, 4.4 millions)
3) Final Fantasy (FF VII, PS1, 1997, Square-Enix, 4.1 millions)
4) Yokai-Watch (YW2, N3DS, 2014, Level-5, 3.3 millions)
5) Street Fighter (SFII, SNES, 1991, Capcom, 2.9 millions)
6) Minecraft (MC: Switch, Switch, 2017, Microsoft, 2.8 million* probably more)
7) Resident Evil (RE2, PS1, 1998, Capcom, 2.55 millions)
8) Chrono (CTrigger, SNES, 1995, Square-Enix, 2.03 millions)
9) Puyo Puyo (Super PP, SNES, 1993, SEGA, 1.7 millions)
10) Kingdom Hearts (KH2, PS2, 2005, Square-Enix, 1.6 millions)
11) Crash Bandicoot (CB3, PS1, 1998, Activision, 1.5 millions)
12) Mana (SoM, SNES, 1993, Square-Enix, 1.5 millions)
13) Tamagotchi (Tama 2, GB, 1997, Bandai-Namco, 1.45 millions)
14) Tekken (T3, PS1, 1998, Bandai-Namco, 1.40 millions)
15) Virtua Fighter (VF2, Saturn, 1995, SEGA, 1.3 millions)
16) Lode Runner (LR, NES, 1984, Konami, 1.1 millions)
17) Onimusha (O2, PS2, 2002, Capcom, 1.1 millions)
18) SaGa (SaGa, GB, 1989, Square-Enix, 1.1 millions)
19) Warriors (SW, PS2, 2004, Koei-Tecmo, 1.07 millions)
20) Parasite Eve (PE, PS1, 1998, Square-Enix, 1,06 millions)
21) Professor Layton (PL, NDS, 2007, Level-5, 1.01 millions)
22) Gradius (Gradius, NES, 1986, Konami, 1.00
million)
23) Star Soldier (SS, NES, 1986, Konami, 1.00 million)
24) Metal Gear (MG4, PS3, 2008, Konami, 1.00 million)

If Level-5 aren’t near bankruptcy, Yokai-Watch could be a good candidate.

Would be a bit surprise if we won’t get at least a YW or Puyo Puyo mii costume. Chrono was rumoured to be a candidate for playable fighter (as per seven square leak) and this list makes sense.

But honestly anything can happen.

Interesting that Crash is so high. That kind of supports Crash in a way because he is bigger in the West.

 

[RileyXY1]

I just don't see them repeating gimmicks. Also in terms of Pokemon for me it's Gen 8 or bust, and I don't expect a Gen 8 Pokemon to happen.

 

[volbound1700]

I think a First-Party pick is more likely than a Third-Party pick for FP# 11.

 

[Dinoman96]

Interesting that Crash is so high. That kind of supports Crash in a way because he is bigger in the West.

I think the one problem is that for as popular Crash was in Japan during the PS1 era, he kinda petered out afterwards. N. Sane Trilogy, Nitro Fueled and Crash 4 all bombed in Japan, which could explain why he most likely wasn't on Nintendo's radar.

 

[RileyXY1]

I think a First-Party pick is more likely than a Third-Party pick for FP# 11.

I don't know. A lot of first party characters have been deconfirmed by Spirit Events, so either they shill a remake or they shill a game that we don't know exists.

 

[volbound1700]

I don't know. A lot of first party characters have been deconfirmed by Spirit Events, so either they shill a remake or they shill a game that we don't know exists.

BOTW2, new Pokemon rep, new DK rep, new Kirby rep, new Nintendo IP (i.e. Chorus Kids), Octoling. There are still a lot of FP options.

 

[HYRULESHERO42]

I just really don’t see who Nintendo and Sakurai would add that’s first party that would make sense in the time frame unless it was just a complete fan favorite pick.

cough cough Advance Wars Re-Boot Camp cough cough

 

[RileyXY1]

BOTW2, new Pokemon rep, new DK rep, new Kirby rep, new Nintendo IP (i.e. Chorus Kids), Octoling. There are still a lot of FP options.

Pokemon is deconfirmed through Spirit Events, while I don't expect any new DK or Kirby reps until we get a new game for those franchises.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

The first parties we got this pass weren’t exactly shilling in the sense that Byleth and Corrin were. I think being on Switch is a good enough pre-requisite rather than the exact window frame of shillers’ past

 

[Dinoman96]

With BOTW2 not even coming out this year (when Ultimate support ends), I'd stick a fork in that.

cough cough Advance Wars Re-Boot Camp cough cough

The fact that that doesn't even seem to have a Japanese release planned (yet, anyways) prolly kills that dead tbh lol

 

[Gengar84]

See the thing I keep trying to tell myself is “What reason would Nintendo have for choosing this?”

because at the end of the day that’s probably the most important thing to remember in regards to speculation. The characters are being chosen for reasons, so what would those reasons be?

That’s true. I think Nintendo could have a good reason to include a lot of these. Here are some examples:

1) Battletoads - Promotes Nintendo’s new relationship with Microsoft as well as calling back to their history with RARE

2) Lu Bu - Promotes the Nintendo spinoff Warriors games and their relationship with Koei. Samurai Warriors 5 is also in development for the Switch

3) Blizzard - Diablo 2 remastered is coming out on Switch. Diablo 3 has both a Switch bundle and an amiibo and Overwatch is also on the Switch.

4) Dixie Kong - Potential promotion for the rumored upcoming DK game.

5) Mortal Kombat - MK 11 is on the Switch and has been selling well on it. It also brings in more western fans to Smash.

 

[RileyXY1]

I expect the next character to be yet another Japan-appeal character. A lot of the DLC characters we have gotten appealed specifically to Japanese audiences.

 

[Quick Gaming (QG)]

cough cough Advance Wars Re-Boot Camp cough cough

See I’ve included that a few times, especially since they only have 3 spirits, but the thing tripping me up is simply that I don’t really see how Nintendo would be interested enough in wanting the game to do well to want a fighter, rather than say a spirit event

 

[RileyXY1]

See I’ve included that a few times, especially since they only have 3 spirits, but the thing tripping me up is simply that I don’t really see how Nintendo would be interested enough in wanting the game to do well to want a fighter, rather than say a spirit event

Since this is a remake I'm inclined to agree with you. If this was a brand new entry in the series I would feel differently.

 

[Quick Gaming (QG)]

I expect the next character to be yet another Japan-appeal character. A lot of the DLC characters we have gotten appealed specifically to Japanese audiences.

SMT and DR are bigger in Japan than in the west right?

 

[DarthEnderX]

Foresight.

That's just a dodge-roll with a different animation. It doesn't actually do anything unique.

 

[Yokta]

What if the last fighter was a representative of PlayStation? I know it obviously won't be, but I can't think of a more fitting conclusion to the broadest crossover in gaming.

Smash Ultimate's DLC has had a lot of mind-blowing moments. For the final character to be the peak of Smash hype, it has to surpass the likes of Joker, Banjo-Kazooie, Sephiroth, Kazuya, even Minecraft Steve. The only way I can conceive of that happening is a collaboration with the only pillar of gaming more iconic than Nintendo.

I'm not saying there won't be people upset to see Kratos or Ratchet & Clank in the final slot, but even those people would agree that the biggest reveal was saved for last.

 

[RouffWestie]

Hot take: in my opinion Fire Emblem Heroes, Tokyo Mirage Sections, Dragalia Lost, and Rhythm Heaven are the frontrunners for potential first-party releases Nintendo would consider for Smash DLC.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

I interpreted Okami as a dark horse due to its awkward placement on the picture.

Ammy heard someone open a dog food can and peeked around the corner

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Hot take: in my opinion Fire Emblem Heroes, Tokyo Mirage Sections, Dragalia Lost, and Rhythm Heaven are the frontrunners for potential first-party releases Nintendo would consider for Smash DLC.

Tokyo Mirage Sessions would be so so fun to see. I wonder who they’d pick from Heroes considering its rotating cast and overall pretty bland “Askr Trio” main characters.

 

[Quick Gaming (QG)]

What if the last fighter was a representative of PlayStation? I know it obviously won't be, but I can't think of a more fitting conclusion to the broadest crossover in gaming.

Smash Ultimate's DLC has had a lot of mind-blowing moments. For the final character to be the peak of Smash hype, it has to surpass the likes of Joker, Banjo-Kazooie, Sephiroth, Kazuya, even Minecraft Steve. The only way I can conceive of that happening is a collaboration with the only pillar of gaming more iconic than Nintendo.

I'm not saying there won't be people upset to see Kratos or Ratchet & Clank in the final slot, but even those people would agree that the biggest reveal was saved for last.

I keep getting hung up on “would Sony be ok with that?” With Banjo and Steve, those characters can appear on Nintendo consoles anyways, but it’s not the same with characters like Kratos or Ratchet and Clank. Plus Sony doesn’t seem to like playing nice with other companies anyways