Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[GoodGrief741]

If they were to do it, this would be the game to do it for. It isn't like cheap and 'low effort re-releases' are a strange notion since MK8 and Tropical Freeze, among others, exist.

What part of Opossum's post made you think it would be cheap? Low effort, sure, but cheap?

The comparison with different editions of games like Street Fighter and MvC misses the point completely. The problem isn't with development costs, and it isn't with the audience dying out. It's licensing.

The third party characters that were added as part of Ultimate's DLC get a cut of DLC sales. That's the business model. To put those same characters in a $60 deluxe edition they'd have to renegotiate payment. Some licenses might be easier to nab but others look like they'd be a nightmare. If just one pulls out or demands a cut that's too onerous and the whole thing falls apart - you can't really sell a deluxe edition that's missing one of the characters. Street Fighter and MvC don't have this problem because they don't have anyone to license characters from, so they can just choose to rerelease a game and everyone's on board.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

I’d like to see assists added to a Smash game eventually. Have each fighter summon an ally from their home series to cameo and attack the opponent. It’d be a cool way to make more characters take part in the battle and add a little more depth to the game.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Since Kaz is fighter number 81, that'd mean there'd be 19 more numbered fighters needed to reach 100. In that case, what 19 characters would people pick? My picks are:

1) Krystal
2) Chun-Li
3) Morrigan Aensland (with Lilith as an echo)
4) Scorpion (with Sub-Zero as an echo)
5) Dr. Eggman
6) Tingle
7) Doomslayer
8) Ryu Hayabusa
9) Kasumi
10) Master Chief
11) Sora
12) Sol Badguy
13) Rayman
14) Yuri Lowell
15) Agumon
16) Crash Bandicoot
17) Coco Bandicoot
18) Freddy Fazbear
19) Waluigi as the "finale" character (since it'd be "after all this time, Waluigi FINALLY gets into the roster")

Gonna try to make mine at least a little realistic
82. Rean Schwarzer
83. Officer Howard
84. Crash Bandicoot
85. Master Chief
86. Neku
87. Ring Fit Trainee
88. Nahobino
89. Phoenix Wright
90. Isaac
91. Prof Layton
92. Spyro
93. Adol Christin
94. Ryu Hayabusa
95. Dr Eggman
96. Dante
97. Doomslayer
98. Monokuma
99. Rayman
100. Waluigi

 

[Arcanir]

If they were to do it, this would be the game to do it for. It isn't like cheap and 'low effort re-releases' are a strange notion since MK8 and Tropical Freeze, among others, exist.

With them following more traditional fighting game methods, I'd not even be surprised if they pull an MVC3 or SF4 and have additional 'editions' later on to revive interest, introduce new content and (Hopefully) balance fixes and other general fixes to the game. If they keep the price attractive they could make good money off Ultimate for a good while without needing to pour more resources into a new title that won't compare for many.

Just look how annoyed SF folks were when after SF4 ended and we got that piecemeal of a starter roster for SF5. Hard to go from 4's roster to 5's base roster. A tough pill to swallow waiting AGES for your main to return...IF they return.

And even having a smaller team work on continued content for each 'edition' while they wait for the right time to begin work proper on a sequel seems like ez money.

SF4 doesn't have guest fighters that they have to pay for upon each edition and MvC3 only had one other edition in Ultimate before their contract expired and they had to move on. Those aren't really good examples and if anything, MvC3 is a counterexample since it had to make a large number of cuts from 2 to 3 at its base and even with DLC not all of those characters returned.

In the end, Ultimate is a very abnormal game because it's the only fighting game offhand that has tried to keep its entire roster intact, third parties and all, and that's not an easy or cheap feat to do. There's a reason why fighting games cycle out fighters rather then keep everyone around and that's because eventually the cost and resources required to do so exceed what's feasible, and that's especially the case with guest fighters which commonly do not come back for a second go in the franchise because they'd have to renegotiate and pay for the character. It's not something that would be easy or cheap, it'd be very difficult to work out, especially with as many hands in the pot as we have now with all of the third party characters.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

They COULD milk Ultimate if they want to and pull a SF5 and make more Fighters Passes...
With an extremely plausible break for Sakurai to take in between each pass.

Who knows...

Ultimate would turn into the Queen then since they would both be immortal.

 

[MarioRaccoon]

Nintendo has probably thought of a smash ultimate dx version with both FPs and maybe they included some type of clause in each third party deal or contract

 

[Twilord]

Dumb thought - what if the next Smash Bros game is a "Hero Shooter" so they can bring back normal Smash Bros with a smaller roster after that? xD

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Nintendo has probably thought of a smash ultimate dx version with both FPs and maybe they included some type of clause in each third party deal or contract

That’s kinda what some of us have hypothesized yeah

if Ult DX does happen FFVII deserves an AT and I say it should be Aerith

 

[Will]

Dumb thought - what if the next Smash Bros game is a "Hero Shooter" so they can bring back normal Smash Bros with a smaller roster after that? xD

easiest way to bomb a franchise

chibi-robo didn't get slaughtered for nintendo to do the same type of mistake

 

[Rie Sonomura]

What even IS a “Hero Shooter” anyway? What does that mean?

 

[Twilord]

easiest way to bomb a franchise

chibi-robo didn't get slaughtered for nintendo to do the same type of mistake

I was honestly kinda just thinking 'distract from the fact that when things went back to normal they'd halfed the roster'.

What even IS a “Hero Shooter” anyway? What does that mean?

Its a shooter where every character has unique powers. Team Fortress 2 or Overwatch.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I wouldn't mind another big Nintendo crossover that try another genre than Smash, but I don't think hero shooter would make sense. Why not a racing game? Mario kart 8 DLC/deluxe already kind of start that.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Smash kart
Yes, that's right

Simon's boutta drive this bad boy

^ If you know what this is, props to you

 

[Wigglerman]

What part of Opossum's post made you think it would be cheap? Low effort, sure, but cheap?

The comparison with different editions of games like Street Fighter and MvC misses the point completely. The problem isn't with development costs, and it isn't with the audience dying out. It's licensing.

The third party characters that were added as part of Ultimate's DLC get a cut of DLC sales. That's the business model. To put those same characters in a $60 deluxe edition they'd have to renegotiate payment. Some licenses might be easier to nab but others look like they'd be a nightmare. If just one pulls out or demands a cut that's too onerous and the whole thing falls apart - you can't really sell a deluxe edition that's missing one of the characters. Street Fighter and MvC don't have this problem because they don't have anyone to license characters from, so they can just choose to rerelease a game and everyone's on board.

Even with the licensing costs, if they did a 'deluxe edition' later on and sold it for full MSRP, hell even $40 you're really telling me they wouldn't cover those costs AND still rake in a lot of profit? Even if just half the 23 MILLION people who bought Ultimate originally rebought it for the deluxe edition or super deluxe editions with the new content they're reselling content they've MORE than recouped their money on and even with the licensing.

We also can't just say 'but THE LICENSING!' because we don't even know how much each companies cuts are OR what the deal even covered (Such as these hypothetical editions).

It's all speculation unless you can find and run the numbers to prove it wouldn't still be profitable for Nintendo. Which I just can't imagine why it wouldn't be if the deals as they've been so far have been worthwhile from the start,

 

[Megadoomer]

good ole next game speculation

I guess ultimate speculation really is coming to a close

I'm pretty sure "Next game speculation" started moments after "Everyone Was Here" was shown off.

"Wow, I can't believe they're bringing all of the veterans back! So anyway, they're definitely going to cut Falco, Sheik, Marth, Peach, the Ice Climbers, the Pokemon Trainer, Ridley, all of the clone/semi-clone characters, and all of the third party characters in the game after Smash Bros. Ultimate."

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Ironically enough given the antipathy towards fighters from that genre, a mega crossover Smash JRPG would be pretty damn interesting even if Nintendo would never do it given the story and characterization that would have to be applied to franchises they prefer to keep fairly light on that sort of thing.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I wouldn't mind another big Nintendo crossover that try another genre than Smash, but I don't think hero shooter would make sense. Why not a racing game? Mario kart 8 DLC/deluxe already kind of start that.

I want a Kingdom Hearts RPG where a FF OC visits all the different Nintendo Worlds with Luigi and Yoshi to foil all the bad guys plots while teaming up with Link, Kirby, Fox, Samus, etc in each specific world.

 

[Megadoomer]

What even IS a “Hero Shooter” anyway? What does that mean?

Something along the lines of Team Fortress 2 or Overwatch; a shooter where the classes are clearly-defined characters with different attributes/weapons/skills.

Hero shooter - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[ZelDan]

Not gonna lie, when I heard "hero shooter" I was thinking more along the lines of this:



Whether this is supposed to mean that heroes all have a gun pointed at them, or that it was meant to combine these and give all 4 heroes a gun arm, I'll leave up to interpretation.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Nintendo has probably thought of a smash ultimate dx version with both FPs and maybe they included some type of clause in each third party deal or contract

[citation needed]

Even with the licensing costs, if they did a 'deluxe edition' later on and sold it for full MSRP, hell even $40 you're really telling me they wouldn't cover those costs AND still rake in a lot of profit? Even if just half the 23 MILLION people who bought Ultimate originally rebought it for the deluxe edition or super deluxe editions with the new content they're reselling content they've MORE than recouped their money on and even with the licensing.

Yes because licensing deals aren't made on a dollar basis but rather percentages, be them of gross or net profit. That's how profit share agreements and royalty payments work, in video games and in everything. It's not a matter of "Oh, Konami's asking for $10 million more for Richter? That's fine! We just have to sell X copies to cover that." but rather "The composer for Dragon Quest demands Y% of the cost of every product sold, and while that might be reasonable for DLC it's not feasible to accept for a $60 retail game because it cuts into our bottom line". I'm not pulling this out of my ass by the way, this is common practice.

Companies don't exist just to make a profit, they exist to maximize profit. They have shareholders to appease. The question you have to ask yourself isn't "Could they make this game and make a profit?" because the answer is yes 90% of the time. The real question is "Is this the version of this game that ensures the most profit (within an acceptable standard of quality)?" because that's the game that's getting made.

 

[SharkLord]

What even IS a “Hero Shooter” anyway? What does that mean?

A game about trying and inevitably failing to shoot Superman with a gun

Jokes aside, it's basically a team-based FPS (Though I'm pretty sure there's some third-person iterations) where you choose between characters with their own unique abilities and niches. Like Megadoomer mentioned, TF2 and Overwatch are generally the first examples that come to mind.

 

[Schnee117]

A game about trying and inevitably failing to shoot Superman with a gun

Jokes aside, it's basically a team-based FPS (Though I'm pretty sure there's some third-person iterations) where you choose between characters with their own unique abilities and niches. Like Megadoomer mentioned, TF2 and Overwatch are generally the first examples that come to mind.

What if I told you that joke was a reality.
And is probably gonna be "hero" based in some form.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Sakurai seems to really like Apex Legends.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Hope fans enjoy the Street Fighter Tekken crossover in Smash because it looks like we ain't getting any more of them any time soon

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Sakurai seems to really like Apex Legends.

got a source?

 

[Garteam]

On the one hand, I'm sure Nintendo would rather avoid the massive licensing costs that would come with making an Ultimate Deluxe.

On the other hand, Nintendo knows that Smash Bros. makes a ****ton of money, consistently sells consoles, is incredibly useful for advertising, and is a series that lives and dies on its roster. There's a reason that Nintendo's primary E3 2018 headline was "Look at all these characters that Smash has!". There's also a reason why, of the last four directs that have aired, three opened with Smash.

It doesn't matter who they add if the consensus among general consumers is the new Smash doesn't really approach Ultimate in terms of scale. Even really crazy choices like Kratos, Geno, or even Goku would only temporarily quell any dissent. Redesigning vets or changing genres may also garner some short-term attention, but it's not going to do much when half of all discussion regarding the next Smash is how it has 15 fewer characters than Ultimate's base game or how 30 characters were cut from the roster regardless of who those characters are. Historical unpopularity has never stopped cut vets from being some of the most requested characters for new Smash games in the past.

While it may be less profitable in the short term to just build a new game from the ground up at a more sustainable scale, Nintendo may see doing Ultimate Deluxe as better for Smash's long-term brand image and, by extension, financial health until the natural demand for a new Smash that isn't just Ultimate again overtakes any disappointment that the new Smash isn't as big as Ultimate, similar to how MvC3 was able to get away with having a roster that was smaller than MvC2's simply by riding the fact it was a new entry in a series thought to be dead.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Hope fans enjoy the Street Fighter Tekken crossover in Smash because it looks like we ain't getting any more of them any time soon

View attachment 320208

Full translated interview for those interested.

 

[Houndstooth]

Hero Shooters sprung up, but have kinda faded a bit now. At least, the arena based ones. Overwatch has just dominated that genre. Apex does a great job on the BR front, though.

Serisously, though, I would be interested in a Microsoft Hero Shooter as opposed to them trying to do a copy of Smash. Their characters may lend better in that direction than in a platform fighter.

 

[GoodGrief741]

A game about trying and inevitably failing to shoot Superman with a gun

I don't know which joke to make so I'll just point out that the next Suicide Squad movie stars Bloodsport, a guy famous for almost killing Superman using just guns (and good ol' Kryptonite); and that they're making a Suicide Squad game with the subtitle Kill the Justice League. So what you're joking about is actually true in many ways.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Tekken X Street Fighter has finally met its fate. I didn’t expect it to come out after all the development hell it went through and Street Fighter X Tekken being one of Capcoms most controversial games, but it is still sad to see such a cool concept bite it.

RIP. Maybe it’ll come back some day. Maybe.

 

[Technomage]

Tekken X Street Fighter has finally met its fate. I didn’t expect it to come out after all the development hell it went through and Street Fighter X Tekken being one of Capcoms most controversial games, but it is still sad to see such a cool concept bite it.

RIP. Maybe it’ll come back some day. Maybe.

In a way, it already did.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Granted the inclusion of the bad box art version was just an affectionate joke done at the worst possible time but with the Blue Bomber having gotten himself some new releases, received an invitation to Smash 4, and now officially in a title that is itself a Street Fighter/Tekken crossover while the official SF x T sequel is canceled?

Mega Man really did have the last laugh in the end.

 

[DarthEnderX]

What even IS a “Hero Shooter” anyway? What does that mean?

A game like Overwatch.

 

[Perkilator]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

I'll never not be happy she was pisked as the ARMS rep.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Sakurai seems to really like Apex Legends.

CP11 material right there? Ayo?

Not the EA rep I'd want the most though haha though I love Apex, that title goes to my man Crazy Dave

 

[SpectreJordan]

So, in getting caught up on the posts here that I missed from yesterday, with all this talk about Capcom being back on the table, NGL, it makes me happy to see people who think Resident Evil has a chance of getting fighter #11.

I do think it’s suspicious that everyone & their mother was predicting Tekken & Resident Evil during FP2. Now Tekken has finally shown up, will RE follow?

I just hope it’d be Leon, Jill or Claire instead of boring old Chris.

 

[Technomage]

I do think it’s suspicious that everyone & their mother was predicting Tekken & Resident Evil during FP2. Now Tekken has finally shown up, will RE follow?

I just hope it’d be Leon, Jill or Claire instead of boring old Chris.

I'd pick Nemesis, but covered in duct tape and garbage bags.

 

[SpectreJordan]

I'd pick Nemesis, but covered in duct tape and garbage bags.

He was fun in MvC. But I’d prefer one of the protagonists. One of my favorite things about Smash is seeing how a series’s gameplay gets “Smashified”, I’d love to see how RE gets translated to that; I think a protagonist would do that better than Nemmy.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

I'm just saying
Having Simon, Richter, and a resurrected Luigi get their butts whipped by a RE enemy outside Dracula's Castle, only for someone like Leon to save them would be based.

You know what's also based?
How big Apex Legends is in Japan

Yea, I talked about two different things at the same time B)

 

[JustPlainDan]

I'm just saying
Having Simon, Richter, and a resurrected Luigi get their butts whipped by a RE enemy outside Dracula's Castle, only for someone like Leon to save them would be based.

What would also be based is if it was more than one enemy and after fleeing because of them getting it handed to them, Leon says the iconic “Where’s everyone going? Bingo?” remark.