Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Technomage]

With all due respect to Yokai-Watch...

If Jibanyan gets to fight Pikachu before Agumon does - in a game made by Bandai Namco... I may be tempted to sell organs - both my own and stolen from others - so that I can by Bandai Namco and end them.

Or you could by Bandai Namco and make them add Agumon to Smash. Seems like a more fruitful alternative, wouldn't you agree?

 

[TheMightyP]

While I'm not doubting assist promition can happen, I don't think it's very likely.

 

[cashregister9]

CP6 - Min Min -> nintendo female character
CP7 - Steve -> third party non-human character
CP8 -> Sephiroth-> third party human character
CP9 -> Pyra/Mythra -> nintendo female character
CP10 -> Kazuya -> third party human character
CP11 -> ??? -> third party non-human character

Puzzle solved, this benefits ….

Jesse...

 

[Michael the Spikester]

... weren't you predicting Waluigi like two weeks ago? Flip-flop much?

That wasn't two weeks ago. That was at latest early last year.

 

[TheMightyP]

CP6 - Min Min -> nintendo female character
CP7 - Steve -> third party non-human character
CP8 -> Sephiroth-> third party human character
CP9 -> Pyra/Mythra -> nintendo female character
CP10 -> Kazuya -> third party human character
CP11 -> ??? -> third party non-human character

Puzzle solved, this benefits ….

Bubsy confurmed.

 

[Twilord]

Or you could by Bandai Namco and make them add Agumon to Smash. Seems like a more fruitful alternative, wouldn't you agree?

As the ancient song goes...


You tell me that you're sorry
Didn't think I'd turn around and say
That it's too late to apologize, it's too late
I said it's too late to apologize, it's too late
Too late, oh

 

[Gengar84]

CP6 - Min Min -> nintendo female character
CP7 - Steve -> third party non-human character
CP8 -> Sephiroth-> third party human character
CP9 -> Pyra/Mythra -> nintendo female character
CP10 -> Kazuya -> third party human character
CP11 -> ??? -> third party non-human character

Puzzle solved, this benefits ….

Battletoads, Fulgore, Illidan, or Diablo would be awesome for third party non human characters. Illidan might be a little too similar to Kazuya’s demon form visually but I won’t complain.

 

[TheMightyP]

Also, Steve is a human.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Nearly a week now. How's everyone feeling towards Kazuya?

Myself? On one hand I've never played Tekken but on the other hand we got not just another fighting game character but another villain as well and Kazuya looks really cool so I'm content with his inclusion and hearing about Tekken's legacy, it definitely more then earns its spot on the roster.

Honestly I don't really care that much. I've played a bit of Tekken 6 but I wasn't a huge fan of it (in general aside from Virtua fighter I never really liked 3d fighting games). Honestly I'm more excited for the music than anything, because I remember that most of Tekken ost is very good. Hopefully we can have a lot of music. I do agree that Tekken more than deserve a fighter and it was about time that Namco get a second fighter.

 

[Garteam]

CP7 - Steve -> third party non-human character

By this logic, Mario, Luigi, and Wario are not humans.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Assist Trophies are such a loaded topic and generally I've tried to avoid getting in too deep to those kind of conversations, but I'll admit more and more I'm seeing a possible opportunity for a promotion of some kind. Of course we only have one more character left for this opportunity to occur and if you asked me to put money on it, I'd say it isn't going to happen. Still, with how many barriers have been broken and assumptions have been rendered false I find it silly to feel too strongly about what truly disqualifies a character from being viable.

Would it really be hard for Nintendo to go back on an AT and just prevent them from showing up when the promoted character is on stage? Of course not. And hell, I'd argue the presence of Chrom as both a playable character and part of Robin's FS shows that, even if the circumstances were slightly different, the whole obsession with what role x or y character already plays in the game means more to us than it does to Sakurai and especially Nintendo. I'd wager Nintendo doesn't care one bit, which leaves it up to Sakurai to decide whether or not that's an option... who again, added Chrom as a playable character who can be finished off by Robin and Chrom and met with a pose featuring Chrom on the victory screen. You get the idea.

The more pressing question is just whether or not there's any individual AT who warrants being promoted right now. Which is of course debatable, it's not very creative of me to suggest but I do think Waluigi has a leg up over the competition due to his significant fan demand. But if some other motivation exists for other characters then I wouldn't completely count that out either. My consensus is that ATs can be promoted if they really wanted to, but I don't think they see any pressing need to do so right now outside of the arbitrary boundary breaking of "an AT promotion!!", which would definitely turn heads but shouldn't and likely wouldn't be the sole reason to do so.

Consider though, the existence of a working model in-game is pretty convenient if they ever did want to promote any of those characters in Ultimate. Going back to Chrom, I imagine that's why it was so easy to add him in the first place.

That's pretty much my take too, people seems to think that they're going to upgrade an assist just for the sake of doing an assist promotion, but that's not how the roster is chosen. Min min wasn't chosen because "hey it would be cool to upgrade a spirit". She was chosen because she was a new Nintendo ip and was a opportunity for a unique moveset.

 

[TheMightyP]

By this logic, Mario, Luigi, and Wario are not humans.

They're not.

They're italian.

 

[GoodGrief741]

That wasn't two weeks ago. That was at latest early last year.

If and I mean IF we do get an assist promotion. It's gonna be either Waluigi, Shadow, or Isaac. Heavily leaning towards Waluigi for obvious reasons.

Yeah no that was this week. Even if it were last year, pretty dickish move to be mocking a fanbase when you yourself were positive towards the character's chances at some point.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

CP6 - Min Min -> nintendo female character
CP7 - Steve -> third party non-human character
CP8 -> Sephiroth-> third party human character
CP9 -> Pyra/Mythra -> nintendo female character
CP10 -> Kazuya -> third party human character
CP11 -> ??? -> third party non-human character

Puzzle solved, this benefits ….

Banjo and Kazooie would be a pretty cool choice, I hope they get picked.

 

[SKX31]

So I rewatched Kazuya's trailer and the movelist, and I'm wondering just how many inputs this guy's gonna have. Like a lot of people have theorized, he's probably gonna have an auto-turn and diagonal inputs, but even then that's not enough to fill out all 32~ moves.

A theory I just came up with one the spot is that perhaps he has backwards inputs for his normals, perhaps even diagonal backwards imputs too, for both smashes and tilts.

Then I remembered the Punch/Kick button theories, and I realized that's probably a lot less convoluted and easier to use. Still, that doesn't account for the Devil Kazuya form. Those seem to be specials rather than normals or an Install. That being said, if the Punches and Kicks take up the two standard buttons, how do you activate Devil Kazuya attacks?

The_Bookworm made probably the best guess so far,:

• He identified ca. 36 moves (compared to the average character's 22 IIRC), and 16 of those moves may have command inputs (If I didn't miss any). Some moves are likely to be command-input exclusive, such as Spinning Demon / Hellsweep.
• Most of the inputs are not complicated however, such as Nejiri Uraken (d+1+2 = tap down + left punch + right punch). He doesn't seem to have a lot of back-input moves either.
• The 10-hit combo might be simplified since it's "punch (x4) -> kick (x4) -> punch (x2)". A bit simpler than f,f,N,2,1,2,2,3,4,4,3,2,1 (tap forward -> tap forward -> neutral -> right punch -> left punch -> right punch -> right punch -> left kick -> right kick -> right kick -> left kick -> right punch -> left punch).
• Gates of Hell - a potential command grab - may be one of the most complex, with its FC,d/f,d,d/f+1+2 (while crouching -> down forward -> down -> down forward + left punch + right punch). Bookworm adds: "You likely only need one punch input in the end."
• There are some that either share a lot of inputs with another move (Wind God Fist starts off the exact same as Dragon Uppercut, the only difference between the two is the punch button used at the end).
• Crouch Dash - itself a command input - can directly lead to three other command inputs: Spinning Demon, Dragon Uppercut or Wind God Fist. Which makes it central to anyone who's looking to improve with the character.
• Devil Kazuya is still a mystery. He posited that it might be cosmetic because it deactivates instantly after using certain moves and command inputs are likewise simple, but it might still be a comeback factor.
• While he finds the "Punch & Kick button" theories likely he adds that "While the punch button & kick button theory has a lot of merit, the Dragon Uppercut and Wind God Fist contradictions is by far the biggest obstacle behind this theory, as well as some minor stuff. Unless I am not seeing something, this is a question that will be only answered in the showcase at the 28th."

inb4 Sakurai shows off the Perfect Electric God Wind Fist.

Nearly a week now. How's everyone feeling towards Kazuya?

Not expected (he was completely off my radar), but still a welcome addition since he brings a lot to the table. Not only is a villain who brings along a lot of promising stuff in his Pack (such as another stage with breakable walls - I personally loved KOF Stadium for that); but he's also a character that could be somewhat simple to pick up on a casual level but also very exciting to play and watch if one is interested at the higher levels. I'm confident that Sakurai and co. will be able to make him a fun and fledged out character.

That said, he will be a mechanically intensive character - perhaps on the level of Steve if not even more so. Also, his playstyle in Tekken (and presumably in Smash) heavily discourages recklessness. I kinda feel that both the character and the player using him will oftentimes be finding themselves "ebbing and flowing" during a match, regardless of skill level.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Yeah no that was this week. Even if it were last year, pretty dickish move to be mocking a fanbase when you yourself were positive towards the character's chances at some point.

Regardless I'm not expecting Waluigi to make it anyways and he and any potential assists are waiting until next game. I was just saying IF.

 

[Louie G.]

By this logic, Mario, Luigi, and Wario are not humans.

I thought they were Italians?

Edit: Oh my god I can't believe someone else made this exact joke.

 

[TheMightyP]

Those in the Social Thread should know what I'm talking about, but earlier today we were dissecting a Youtube video that I linked to the thread. It was awful and poorly researched with blatant info (so I don't want to subject you guys to that vid), but at the end he said that this would be an ideal fighters pass.

Is this an ideal pass to you guys? The social thread straight up said no, but I want to know what you guys think.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

By this logic, Mario, Luigi, and Wario are not humans.

NGL seeing him next to realistic humans in Odyssey was.... um.....

Source from Zero Punctuation, swear warning.

 

[Perkilator]

Nearly a week now. How's everyone feeling towards Kazuya?

I wanna see how he works in the presentation and then try him out for myself before I make any strict judgements.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Those in the Social Thread should know what I'm talking about, but earlier today we were dissecting a Youtube video that I linked to the thread. It was awful and poorly researched with blatant info (so I don't want to subject you guys to that vid), but at the end he said that this would be an ideal fighters pass.
View attachment 320114
Is this an ideal pass to you guys? The social thread straight up said no, but I want to know what you guys think.

If it's that one video talking about "the problem with Smash DLC", then no.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Those in the Social Thread should know what I'm talking about, but earlier today we were dissecting a Youtube video that I linked to the thread. It was awful and poorly researched with blatant info (so I don't want to subject you guys to that vid), but at the end he said that this would be an ideal fighters pass.
View attachment 320114
Is this an ideal pass to you guys? The social thread straight up said no, but I want to know what you guys think.

Of course it is. Anyone who tells you it isn't would call it the best newcomer selection ever if it actually happened.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Those in the Social Thread should know what I'm talking about, but earlier today we were dissecting a Youtube video that I linked to the thread. It was awful and poorly researched with blatant info (so I don't want to subject you guys to that vid), but at the end he said that this would be an ideal fighters pass.
View attachment 320114
Is this an ideal pass to you guys? The social thread straight up said no, but I want to know what you guys think.

Eh, pleases a lot of people. I think Chief, Robotnik, and the Wah are cool. If this were for me it’d be way off. If this was for everybody I’d replace Shantae with Geno.

 

[Louie G.]

Is this an ideal pass to you guys?

Far from ideal but the characters are alright. Chief is the high point for sure and the rest I could give or take. Eggman would be fun but probably isn't even in my Top 5 from Sega, Waluigi would also be fun but I'd rather see content from new Nintendo series, Crash I kinda just don't want to see at all to be honest with you - I'd accept him because he'd make a lot of people happy but unfortunately he's kind of been bastardized in my eyes.

And nothing against Shantae, but throwing her into that batch right after saying Terry wasn't a great choice because he doesn't have a strong legacy is probably the most tonedeaf part of the whole video. I think she'd have a super fun moveset though, so I wouldn't mind if she was chosen either.

 

[TheMightyP]

If it's that one video talking about "the problem with Smash DLC", then no.

It was that vid, yeah

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Those in the Social Thread should know what I'm talking about, but earlier today we were dissecting a Youtube video that I linked to the thread. It was awful and poorly researched with blatant info (so I don't want to subject you guys to that vid), but at the end he said that this would be an ideal fighters pass.
View attachment 320114
Is this an ideal pass to you guys? The social thread straight up said no, but I want to know what you guys think.

Meh, I like some, I don't care about others, could take it or leave it.

 

[Perkilator]

Those in the Social Thread should know what I'm talking about, but earlier today we were dissecting a Youtube video that I linked to the thread. It was awful and poorly researched with blatant info (so I don't want to subject you guys to that vid), but at the end he said that this would be an ideal fighters pass.
View attachment 320114
Is this an ideal pass to you guys? The social thread straight up said no, but I want to know what you guys think.

Only characters here I'd care that mich about are Crash and Eggman.

...Actually, now that I think about, what would be your ideal Fighters Pass? Here's mine:

Vol. 1

• Sakura Shinguji
• 
• 
• 
• Sora

Vol. 2

• 
  
• Crash Bandicoot
• 
• /
• 
  
• Dr. Eggman

 

[chocolatejr9]

It was that vid, yeah

In that case, move along everybody, just another Salty Smash Fanboy Who Didn't Get His Most Wanted(TM).

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Those in the Social Thread should know what I'm talking about, but earlier today we were dissecting a Youtube video that I linked to the thread. It was awful and poorly researched with blatant info (so I don't want to subject you guys to that vid), but at the end he said that this would be an ideal fighters pass.
View attachment 320114
Is this an ideal pass to you guys? The social thread straight up said no, but I want to know what you guys think.

Aside from Eggman there's really nothing for me but I think objectively it would be a great pass but probably not the ideal one (a pass with no Rhythm heaven is not an ideal pass).

 

[Mushroomguy12]

In that case, move along everybody, just another Salty Smash Fanboy Who Didn't Get His Most Wanted(TM).

I don't like salt. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Those in the Social Thread should know what I'm talking about, but earlier today we were dissecting a Youtube video that I linked to the thread. It was awful and poorly researched with blatant info (so I don't want to subject you guys to that vid), but at the end he said that this would be an ideal fighters pass.
View attachment 320114
Is this an ideal pass to you guys? The social thread straight up said no, but I want to know what you guys think.

I presume this is a third pass in contest? If so, it's very very good. Hits lots of cool notes. Not the Indie I like, and I prefer Shadow to Eggman, but a great list nonetheless.

 

[Gengar84]

Those in the Social Thread should know what I'm talking about, but earlier today we were dissecting a Youtube video that I linked to the thread. It was awful and poorly researched with blatant info (so I don't want to subject you guys to that vid), but at the end he said that this would be an ideal fighters pass.
View attachment 320114
Is this an ideal pass to you guys? The social thread straight up said no, but I want to know what you guys think.

Not at all for me. I don’t really dislike any of these characters but none of them are anywhere near my most wanted.

 

[Twilord]

Nearly a week now. How's everyone feeling towards Kazuya?

I'm still just glad I wasn't crazy for thinking that if Bandai Namco had to wait that long for a second rep it would have to be an ongoing inhouse series which had a surprising big impact on gaming history. Tekken, V-Pets, same difference. They all happen in the Digimon Multiverse anyway so I just need to pair Kazuya up with Game & Watch and have Game & Watch digivolve into an octopus in order to take down Mewtwo.

 

[TheMightyP]

Those in the Social Thread should know what I'm talking about, but earlier today we were dissecting a Youtube video that I linked to the thread. It was awful and poorly researched with blatant info (so I don't want to subject you guys to that vid), but at the end he said that this would be an ideal fighters pass.
View attachment 320114
Is this an ideal pass to you guys? The social thread straight up said no, but I want to know what you guys think.

To answer my own question: no, this is far from ideal. There's no variety here when 4/5 are cartoony platformer characters and all of them are safe picks with no surprises to be had. And I wouldn't mind seeing any of then in Smash at all.

 

[Technomage]

Only characters here I'd care that mich about are Crash and Eggman.

...Actually, now that I think about, what would be your ideal Fighters Pass? Here's mine:

Vol. 1

• Sakura Shinguji
• 
• 
• 
• Sora

Vol. 2

• 
  
• Crash Bandicoot
• 
• /
• 
  
• Dr. Eggman

I'd remove Byleth and replace him with Ryu Hayabusa, then have Rayman as the final DLC guy (complete with him breaking out of that iceberg on Battlefield). That'd be good enough for me.

 

[cashregister9]

Those in the Social Thread should know what I'm talking about, but earlier today we were dissecting a Youtube video that I linked to the thread. It was awful and poorly researched with blatant info (so I don't want to subject you guys to that vid), but at the end he said that this would be an ideal fighters pass.
View attachment 320114
Is this an ideal pass to you guys? The social thread straight up said no, but I want to know what you guys think.

While I want most of these characters, it just feels like it's appealing to Smash Bros. fans only and feels samey even though the characters are unique.

 

[Inferno7]

I mean... Most of those points seem kinda flimsy IMO, no offense.

- "Kazuya has combos" Terry also had combos and Kazuya still made it in.

- "Sephiroth overlaps with his visual design"... Not really? Maybe it's just me but they do not look similar at all. The only thing they share is the white hair.

- "Both Min Min and Byleth switch weapons" Min Min still got in despite Byleth having different weapons. In any case, Byleth doesn't really switch weapons in a literal sense. He/she uses a different one depending on the direction of tour attack. Min Min is the one that actually can switch weapons.

- "Joker has guns" Yeah, but if that is a point against Dante then that should be a death sentence for the likes of Doomguy, Master Chief or a Resident Evil rep, and all of those would use guns in their moveset a lot more than Dante.

As for DMC not being as huge as RE or MH, that's true. But at the same time that point can be applied the other way around. Both Mega Man and Street Fighter got in before Resident Evil, despite being smaller series in terms of sales and popularity worldwide.
That happened twice with Capcom so I don't think it's that far fetched to imagine a third time.

I get your reasoning but my problem is that most of these points seem weak to me, and in any case, not exclusive to Dante at all. If anything I think he is in a better spot than some other characters even if what you said is true, because Dante's arsenal and abilities is almost endless and it would be hard to tell how they would approach him. They could go full with his style switching, or maybe focus on him having ton of weapons. He has Devil Trigger which could be added as a meter, or if Sakurai feels creative he could even implement a Style meter that goes up according if Dante does different combos or doesn't get hurt for a while, like in his games.

They are not really comparable
Mega Man and Ryu are some of the biggest gaming icons and there's no question to that, meanwhile Dante is unfortunately nowhere close. Same reason PAC-MAN got in.
Kazuya is way more combo heavy than Terry, bad comparison. One of his attacks is literally a 10 hit string. Dante would also have a demon transformation (DT) which would heavily overlap with Kazuya's, ''weak points'' lol.
Min Min and Byleth aren't in the same pass but ok.
Seph and Dante have way more in common than you think, big swords, coats, they're tall,, and have white hair as you said. If they gave Dante a shirtless alt he would look nearly the same as Seph too. Forgot to mention the fact but didn't Isaac fans stop talking about him once Cloud got announced? I don't see why the same wouldn't apply here.

Sure, Dante's moveset potential is insane, but in the end it would just make him harder to implement, not to mention it would be a balancing nightmare.


Thing is most of the stuff that would make Dante unique has already been taken by another character, and most of them are in FP2. He also has heavy competence with other Capcom reps which is a fact we shouldn't ignore. As I said earlier, even if I want him in doesn't mean I can't see why he isn't as likely as I'd want him to be. I really don't get why you felt the need to make such a huge post just to prove I'm wrong.

 

[Gengar84]

Alright, how would people feel about this potential pass? I tried to limit this to characters that have a little more general appeal and left out some of my personal favorites like Battletoads, Magus and Zegram.

Scorpion/Sub-Zero
Sarah Kerrigan
Gengar
Akira Howard
Lu Bu

 

[Inferno7]

Alright, how would people feel about this potential pass? I tried to limit this to characters that have a little more general appeal and left out some of my personal favorites like Battletoads, Magus and Zegram.

Scorpion/Sub-Zero
Sarah Kerrigan
Gengar
Akira Howard
Lu Bu

Yes to MK duo and Gengar, but don't really care about the rest.

 

[KillerCage]

Nearly a week now. How's everyone feeling towards Kazuya?

Myself? On one hand I've never played Tekken but on the other hand we got not just another fighting game character but another villain as well and Kazuya looks really cool so I'm content with his inclusion and hearing about Tekken's legacy, it definitely more then earns its spot on the roster.

While it made sense that Bandai Namco should gotten a second rep with a character from Tekken the most likely, I was VERY against the idea of Heihachi being the rep.
I felt validated when Kazuya was revealed as I thought either he or his son Jin made more sense than Heihachi as the former two had the Devil gene while the latter lacked it.