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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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Technomage

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Alright, how would people feel about this potential pass? I tried to limit this to characters that have a little more general appeal and left out some of my personal favorites like Battletoads, Magus and Zegram.

Scorpion/Sub-Zero
Sarah Kerrigan
Gengar
Akira Howard
Lu Bu
Interesting, though Scorps and Sub-Zero would be the only ones I'd care about; I would be okay with the others, though. Now here's my FP idea (though it'd be separated into to FP's):

Ryu Hayabusa (part of the Ninja Gaiden universe)
Kasumi (part of the Dead or Alive universe)
Sol Badguy
Rayman
Scorpion (with Sub-Zero as an echo)
Crash Bandicoot
Master Chief
Sora
Bubsy the Bobcat
Freddy Fazbear
 
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Þe 1 → Way

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Alright, how would people feel about this potential pass? I tried to limit this to characters that have a little more general appeal and left out some of my personal favorites like Battletoads, Magus and Zegram.

Scorpion/Sub-Zero
Sarah Kerrigan
Gengar
Akira Howard
Lu Bu
It has Scorpion and a Sub Zero Echo? Sold. I’d buy sixty bucks for that alone. Gengar is also pretty cool.
 

Gengar84

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Are we being responsible with our picks or dreaming out loud?

I want to know if I should say KOS-MOS, Team Lora, Father Balder, and Rodin or not...
I was trying for kind of a middle ground with mine. They were all characters I really wanted but still have enough general appeal for everyone. If I was going with my dream picks it might be Battletoads, Zegram, Magus, Illidan, and Gengar.

Yeah, the idea is that Sub-Zero is a semiclone of Scorpion with different specials but all the same normals.
 
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KillerCage

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Those in the Social Thread should know what I'm talking about, but earlier today we were dissecting a Youtube video that I linked to the thread. It was awful and poorly researched with blatant info (so I don't want to subject you guys to that vid), but at the end he said that this would be an ideal fighters pass.
View attachment 320114
Is this an ideal pass to you guys? The social thread straight up said no, but I want to know what you guys think.
Yeah no.
Only one of these guys I actually want and at most three of them are worth including (Crash isn't one of them.)
 

Inferno7

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Nearly a week now. How's everyone feeling towards Kazuya?

Myself? On one hand I've never played Tekken but on the other hand we got not just another fighting game character but another villain as well and Kazuya looks really cool so I'm content with his inclusion and hearing about Tekken's legacy, it definitely more then earns its spot on the roster.
Honestly? I feel like they made the right choice, although I would've slightly preferred Jin to be our Tekken rep since his design is cooler.
Nonetheless I'm really satisfied, Kazuya is a badass pick and he looks fun to play. Tekken was also a glaring omission from the roster so I'm glad it finally got a character. Also isn't Kazuya our first demon rep? I see a case being made for Ganondorf but he doesn't really feel like one
 

SharkLord

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Assist Trophies are such a loaded topic and generally I've tried to avoid getting in too deep to those kind of conversations, but I'll admit more and more I'm seeing a possible opportunity for a promotion of some kind. Of course we only have one more character left for this opportunity to occur and if you asked me to put money on it, I'd say it isn't going to happen. Still, with how many barriers have been broken and assumptions have been rendered false I find it silly to feel too strongly about what truly disqualifies a character from being viable.

Would it really be hard for Nintendo to go back on an AT and just prevent them from showing up when the promoted character is on stage? Of course not. And hell, I'd argue the presence of Chrom as both a playable character and part of Robin's FS shows that, even if the circumstances were slightly different, the whole obsession with what role x or y character already plays in the game means more to us than it does to Sakurai and especially Nintendo. I'd wager Nintendo doesn't care one bit, which leaves it up to Sakurai to decide whether or not that's an option... who again, added Chrom as a playable character who can be finished off by Robin and Chrom and met with a pose featuring Chrom on the victory screen. You get the idea.

The more pressing question is just whether or not there's any individual AT who warrants being promoted right now. Which is of course debatable, it's not very creative of me to suggest but I do think Waluigi has a leg up over the competition due to his significant fan demand. But if some other motivation exists for other characters then I wouldn't completely count that out either. My consensus is that ATs can be promoted if they really wanted to, but I don't think they see any pressing need to do so right now outside of the arbitrary boundary breaking of "an AT promotion!!", which would definitely turn heads but shouldn't and likely wouldn't be the sole reason to do so.

Consider though, the existence of a working model in-game is pretty convenient if they ever did want to promote any of those characters in Ultimate. Going back to Chrom, I imagine that's why it was so easy to add him in the first place.
The more pressing question is just whether or not there's any individual AT who warrants being promoted right now.
Yeah, I think this is the biggest issue. There just isn't a clear frontrunner for the ATs to rally behind. The obvious one is Waluigi, but a lot of people are hesitant on someone not being from a new setting. There's Isaac and his massive popularity, but Golden Sun... Let's just say it's seen better days. There's also Shovel Knight, who's honestly kind of a sleeper pick at the moment, but indies in general are often shot down because "The biggest ones have only been supporting content..." Which, funnily enough, includes Shovel Knight himself.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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The Smash Wiki lists Ganondorf's species as "Gerudo", while it lists Ganon's species as "Demon."
Well, we only play as the humanoid form, so I wouldn't count him as a proper Demon rep. Final Smash we can't actually control either like we could with Giga Bowser. If we could, though, totally both.

So Gerudo all the way. Just a Gerudo who way overuses the Triforce of Power so much it's how he fights. Power, Power, and more Power~!
 

Technomage

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There's also Shovel Knight, who's honestly kind of a sleeper pick at the moment, but indies in general are often shot down because "The biggest ones have only been supporting content..." Which, funnily enough, includes Shovel Knight himself.
Which brings me to a question: How come Ninty isn't adding any indies to the roster? They'd be pretty cheap, and they'd sell for lots of money (especially if they're big indies like Undertale or FNAF); it'd be foolish for Nintendo to pass up such a lucrative opportunity.
 
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Þe 1 → Way

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For those of you that do know Tekken, what does Heihachi have that Kazuya doesn’t?

If Kazuya has the Devil gene along with the Mishima style, what does Heihachi have in the series that makes him unique?

It’d be quite boring if Heihachi only has the Mishima style and nothing else.
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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Devil Kazuya is still a mystery. He posited that it might be cosmetic because it deactivates instantly after using certain moves and command inputs are likewise simple, but it might still be a comeback factor.
Since the red aura (I'm assuming it's the Rage mechanic from Tekken 7) was seen getting activated on hit and there are clips of Devil Kazuya without it, I think that's the comeback mechanic, which would make it highly unlikely for Devil Kazuya to be one (imagine a character with 2 comeback mechanics tho...).

Whether or not Devil Kazuya is cosmetic though, it is pretty clear that they interact considering the command grab that beat Incineroar's Dash Attack.

There's also Shovel Knight, who's honestly kind of a sleeper pick at the moment, but indies in general are often shot down because "The biggest ones have only been supporting content..." Which, funnily enough, includes Shovel Knight himself.
Yeah, it's a shame that indie characters are still in "I'll believe it when I see it" territory.
 

Technomage

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For those of you that do know Tekkem, what does Heihachi have that Kazuya doesn’t?

If Kazuya has the Devil gene along with the Mishima style, what does Heihachi have in the series that makes him unique?

It’d be quite boring if Heihachi only has the Mishima style and nothing else.
I guess that's why Sakurai decided to make him a Mii costume again, huh?
 

Mushroomguy12

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For those of you that do know Tekkem, what does Heihachi have that Kazuya doesn’t?

If Kazuya has the Devil gene along with the Mishima style, what does Heihachi have in the series that makes him unique?

It’d be quite boring if Heihachi only has the Mishima style and nothing else.
A mustache.

I'M Sorry i can't hear you over the majesty of my beard - Ron Swanson Tough  | Meme Generator
 
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Gengar84

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Do you guys think Jin would work well as a Ken style echo to Kazuya? I’m not sure how similar their fighting styles are but might be one reason they went with him over Heihachi since they both have the devil gene.
 

Þe 1 → Way

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AreJay25

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Do you guys think Jin would work well as a Ken style echo to Kazuya? I’m not sure how similar their fighting styles are but might be one reason they went with him over Heihachi since they both have the devil gene.
If they based him on Tekken 3/Tag 1, then potentially. But Jin has had a completely different moveset since Tekken 4 so I'm not sure how viable the idea is.
 

SharkLord

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Those in the Social Thread should know what I'm talking about, but earlier today we were dissecting a Youtube video that I linked to the thread. It was awful and poorly researched with blatant info (so I don't want to subject you guys to that vid), but at the end he said that this would be an ideal fighters pass.
View attachment 320114
Is this an ideal pass to you guys? The social thread straight up said no, but I want to know what you guys think.
Eh... From a personal standpoint, most of these guys are cool, but I'm not going out of my way to root for them. Without my biases, genre-wise it's mostly platformers, and they're all fairly common predictions. Not that it's inherently bad, but I think Smash should also have that element of surprise that makes you go "WAIT, I DIDN'T EVEN THINK OF THAT!" It's like having a bunch of solid instruments that just don't really mesh with each other for whatever reason and end up giving you a sub-par song overall.
 

GilTheGreat19

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You guys are forgetting to speculate on something for the new Sakurai presents

How based will the Steve amiibo be?
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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I was speaking in the context of Tekken, not Smash.
The post wasn't meant for you in particular anyway. I've seen this sentiment popup a few times.

As for the context of Tekken, I could easily be wrong, but I don't think supernatural powers are the standard like they are in other fighting games and especially not Super Smash Bros. I don't think Heihachi has anything as wild as a devil form himself, though Playstation All Stars: Battle Royale gave him electric powers so maybe he has something like that.
 

Þe 1 → Way

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The post wasn't meant for you in particular anyway. I've seen this sentiment popup a few times.

As for the context of Tekken, I could easily be wrong, but I don't think supernatural powers are the standard like they are in other fighting games and especially not Super Smash Bros. I don't think Heihachi has anything as wild as a devil form himself, though Playstation All Stars: Battle Royale gave him electric powers so maybe he has something like that.
Oh, okay. Apologies. Electric Wind God Fist is a pretty popular move in Tekken, it started in Tekken 3 as a move exclusive to Jin, before later being extended to Heihachi. That’s likely where Heihachi got his electric aesthetic in PASBR.
 

chocolatejr9

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Eh... From a personal standpoint, most of these guys are cool, but I'm not going out of my way to root for them. Without my biases, genre-wise it's mostly platformers, and they're all fairly common predictions. Not that it's inherently bad, but I think Smash should also have that element of surprise that makes you go "WAIT, I DIDN'T EVEN THINK OF THAT!" It's like having a bunch of solid instruments that just don't really mesh with each other for whatever reason and end up giving you a sub-par song overall.
This kinda reminds me of a Twitter post I saw that described FP2 as the "Please Play Other Games, We Are On Our Knees Begging" pass.
 

TheMightyP

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So, to answer the question on an ideal fighters pass: an ideal fighters pass should have a healthy variety of genres represented, it should have characters that appeal to all ages and not just young kids or boomers specifically. IMO, a pass that just consists if popular platformer mascots or bug picks in the Smash community would be boring as hell because there will be no surprise factor or wow factor or really anything because it'll just be predictible samey picks, and no matter how hype they can be, I'd get tired of it fast.

So on the same topic imo, while I did like the quality of FP1, FP2 absolutely trumps FP1 in terms of being close to my ideal fighters pass in nearly every way. Granted, both had their share of surprises that nobody expectes, but FP2 just did far more with it and imo the variety there is simply better.
 

Technomage

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So, to answer the question on an ideal fighters pass: an ideal fighters pass should have a healthy variety of genres represented, it should have characters that appeal to all ages and not just young kids or boomers specifically. IMO, a pass that just consists if popular platformer mascots or bug picks in the Smash community would be boring as hell because there will be no surprise factor or wow factor or really anything because it'll just be predictible samey picks, and no matter how hype they can be, I'd get tired of it fast.

So on the same topic imo, while I did like the quality of FP1, FP2 absolutely trumps FP1 in terms of being close to my ideal fighters pass in nearly every way. Granted, both had their share of surprises that nobody expectes, but FP2 just did far more with it and imo the variety there is simply better.
Well then, in that case, here's my FP idea with those guidelines adhered to:

FPS rep: Master Chief
Puzzle rep: Arle Nadja
MOBA rep: Ahri
Platformer/Fighting Game rep: Ryu Hayabusa
Pure platformer rep: Crash Bandicoot
 

Gengar84

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So, to answer the question on an ideal fighters pass: an ideal fighters pass should have a healthy variety of genres represented, it should have characters that appeal to all ages and not just young kids or boomers specifically. IMO, a pass that just consists if popular platformer mascots or bug picks in the Smash community would be boring as hell because there will be no surprise factor or wow factor or really anything because it'll just be predictible samey picks, and no matter how hype they can be, I'd get tired of it fast.

So on the same topic imo, while I did like the quality of FP1, FP2 absolutely trumps FP1 in terms of being close to my ideal fighters pass in nearly every way. Granted, both had their share of surprises that nobody expectes, but FP2 just did far more with it and imo the variety there is simply better.
Yeah I agree. That’s why I tried to go with a different genre and feel for each character in my list. I also tried to keep it to mostly iconic characters that I feel don’t really get enough attention so almost all of them would still be really surprising. I went with Akira as well to represent a newer Nintendo title that has a ton of potential for a Smash character.
 
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GoodGrief741

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So, to answer the question on an ideal fighters pass: an ideal fighters pass should have a healthy variety of genres represented, it should have characters that appeal to all ages and not just young kids or boomers specifically. IMO, a pass that just consists if popular platformer mascots or bug picks in the Smash community would be boring as hell because there will be no surprise factor or wow factor or really anything because it'll just be predictible samey picks, and no matter how hype they can be, I'd get tired of it fast.

So on the same topic imo, while I did like the quality of FP1, FP2 absolutely trumps FP1 in terms of being close to my ideal fighters pass in nearly every way. Granted, both had their share of surprises that nobody expectes, but FP2 just did far more with it and imo the variety there is simply better.
I determine whether a selection is good by how well it holds up years down the line. How surprising a character is has little bearing on that, and when it does it's usually in a negative way.

In terms of variety I'd say DLC so far has been awful. Most fighters are dudes, only 2 are non-human and it spans a grand total of 4 genres. This doesn't make the individual picks bad but I'd be shocked if they were going for variety given the end result.
 

NonSpecificGuy

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For those of you that do know Tekken, what does Heihachi have that Kazuya doesn’t?

If Kazuya has the Devil gene along with the Mishima style, what does Heihachi have in the series that makes him unique?

It’d be quite boring if Heihachi only has the Mishima style and nothing else.
An actually likeable personality.
 
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