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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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SMAASH! Puppy

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Skylanders came out and the ten year-olds of the era, such as myself, loved it. And then it disappeared with such little of a trace that I'm wondering if its existence was a Mandela effect.
Yeah, Skylanders was huge back in the day, and even inspired a few other "toys to life" lines like Amiibo, Disney Xfinity, and Lego Dimensions. Now it basically doesn't exist. I'd imagine it's partially because people eventually saw the "everyone is DLC" business model for the moneygrab that it was, and partially (and probably mostly) because the games lowered in quality over time, especially with the writing which became more and more like it was talking as if the audience was a child.
 

Merengue

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Betting on amongst the following as our last fighter.

1st party character (Dixie Kong, King Boo, Octoling/Off the Hook (Pearl & Marina), Pokemon)
Capcom character
Crash Bandicoot
Arle Nadja
Indie character (Frisk, Reimu, or Shantae)
Master Chief

Not expecting any assist promotions.

Watch that I'm most likely 100% wrong on all of these.
Hmmm Add Porky to that list
 

Opossum

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Maybe I'm being pessimistic but Crash and Spyro both getting in as Skylanders reps sounds like it would just piss off both fanbases immensely.
Especially with Crash, considering his and Cortex's additions were billed more as crossovers with Skylanders, meanwhile with Spyro the game was always built with him in mind.
 

GilTheGreat19

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That and as far as I know, fans of both series don't really like the Skylanders versions of their characters.
To my knowledge
A lot of Spyro fans DESPISE his Skylanders design

I actually like both his Reignited Trilogy and Skylanders designs (there, I said it)

I kinda like Skylanders Crash, LOVE Crash 4 Crash, and eh, N Sane Trilogy Crash is aight.
 

CapitaineCrash

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I hear most people saying that there will be a bonus fighter and it's Waluigi, I don't hear other characters talked about too much.

I don't know why people don't realize that CP11 is the bonus fighter.
Yeah, I've kinda been under the impression that the sixth slot is somewhat extra, thus, a bonus of sorts. Makes me think the character may also have been chosen under different circumstances.
I don't think that fighter pass 2 having one more fighter is that important. Sakurai said je wanted two or three more fighters after pass 1, but he realised he could do more. He probably just have enough Idea and budget for one more character than pass 1 and that's it.
 

spicynun

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I'm glad to see people disagree with that Croc and Banjo-Kazooie example on twitter, I was gonna say something about it at first but was afraid of starting some debate. It's pretty clear that user is biased against Banjo and the N64 in general from their other replies
 
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Evil Trapezium

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So on the topic of Rayman, I wanted to see besides Rayman Origins and Legends if any other Rayman games were released in Japan and all I could come across with the information is this really outdated Rayman fanpage.


So here are the Rayman games released in Japan according to this website.

Rayman (Sega Saturn, Game Boy Colour)
Rayman 2 - The Great Escape (Dreamcast, PlayStation 2)
Rayman Raving Rabbids (Nintendo Wii)
Rayman Raving Rabbids TV Party (Nintendo DS, Nintendo Wii)
Rabbids Party (Nintendo Wii)
Rayman Raving Rabbids 2 (Nintendo Wii)

So Japan does have some Rayman games but considering the fact that there is barely any mention of him, Rayman Legends flopping and the first responses to the Smash 4 Rayman leak being "Who is this guy?" doesn't really inspire much confidence that he'll get picked for Smash Bros,
 
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GilTheGreat19

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I'm just saying
While yes, he doesn't get that much love in Japan,
Ending off the DLC with Rayman would add more meaning to "EVERYONE is here!"...
 

Sari

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Ending off the DLC with Rayman would add more meaning to "EVERYONE is here!"...
I mean, that can be applied to a ton of characters as well like Crash or Master Chief.

Probably even moreso in the case of even more in the case of completely out there picks with different demographics like a GTA rep.
 

GilTheGreat19

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I mean, that can be applied to a ton of characters as well like Crash or Master Chief.

Probably even moreso in the case of even more in the case of completely out there picks with different demographics like a GTA rep.
Indeed!
I should've specified my case for Rayman in particular as I did on a previous page.
Rayman getting added for the (mostly) sake of the Western demographic in a Japenese fighting game, and not just any Japenese fighting game, it's Smash, is what I was referring to.
 

Cosmic77

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Smash will never truly achieve, "EVERYONE is here!". There's always going to be a few characters who didn't make the cut who fans feels believe are a glaring omission from the roster.

I mean, we're down to one last character, and I could list about a dozen characters or so who people would probably say are "missing" from a perfect roster. Waluigi, Geno, Isaac, Sora, Crash, Dixie, BWD, and Master Chief are the first who come to mind.
 

RileyXY1

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I expect the next character to be a Japanese character, and possibly one from a brand new company that hasn't had a fighter yet.
 

SharkLord

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My stance on localizations and stuff is that it's the last pack, so hypothetically anything could happen. Maybe Nintendo would go with one last megaton to make sure all the attention a final Smash reveal would get would pay off, maybe they'll go with a lesser/region-centric character because most people who would buy the pass would have it by now. I'm open to different ideas.

Also because if we limit ourselves too much it's gonna be a really boring three months
 

GilTheGreat19

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I expect the next character to be a Japanese character, and possibly one from a brand new company that hasn't had a fighter yet.
I'll throw you this question for fun:
This company you speak of... do you think it'll be a company with no fighters OR content... or do you think it'll be a Japanese company with some content but no playable fighter yet?
 

RileyXY1

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I'll throw you this question for fun:
This company you speak of... do you think it'll be a company with no fighters OR content... or do you think it'll be a Japanese company with some content but no playable fighter yet?
I just think that we're going to see another Japanese character. I would prefer it if they came from a company without a fighter, as so far FP2 has not introduced a single new company.
 
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Megadoomer

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My guesses for this last spot, if I had to attempt to narrow it down, fall into one of three categories:

a) a Nintendo character

I feel like this goes without saying, but it seems like there's a pretty big chance that the pass will end off with a Nintendo character. I don't think it would be used to promote any Switch games (there haven't been a ton of huge first party releases in the past few months, and there doesn't seem to be many scheduled between now and September, when I assume the next Smash announcement is), so unless we get something announced out of the blue, like a 3D Donkey Kong platformer or another Fire Emblem game, my guesses would be:

* Dixie Kong - she feels like one of those "why isn't she in Smash yet?" cases. Between Tropical Freeze, being one of the player characters in DKC2 (generally seen as the best in the series), and the headliner of DKC3, she seems like the last big Donkey Kong character, and one of the last big Nintendo characters, left to add.

* Cinderace - Pokemon always seems like a possibility; they tend to lean towards the starters, and I feel like Rillaboom would be seen as overlapping with Donkey Kong.

* Bandanna Waddle Dee - this seems like an outside chance, given that when it comes to Kirby, Sakurai seems to prefer focusing on the four games that he directed (Dream Land, Adventure, Super Star, and Air Ride, along with remakes of the first three). However, he's one of the most popular first party picks.

Maybe Elma if we get a port of Xenoblade Chronicles X announced - they've ported basically every other Wii U game to the Switch - but since we already got a Xenoblade character earlier in the pass, I doubt it. Porky could also happen if we get a Mother 3 port, Mother/Earthbound collection, or Earthbound remake, if they wanted to tie into any of those, but I sincerely doubt that any of those are happening. I realize that having a game on the Switch doesn't mean that a character will get into Smash, but between Byleth, Min Min, and Pyra/Mythra, it seems to help.

b) a new third party company

So far, all of the third party characters in Fighters Pass 2 have already been involved in Smash, in contrast to Smash 4's DLC (which added Square-Enix) and Fighters Pass 1 (which added Microsoft and SNK). I could see them wanting to branch out and use this opportunity to work with other companies. The four that stand out to me are:

* Activision: they have been pushing Crash Bandicoot really hard lately, and while they don't have any involvement in Smash at the moment, they've had no problem with crossing their franchises over with Nintendo's through things like Skylanders and the Switch version of Diablo 3.

* Ubisoft: they've usually been close to Nintendo, and between the two Mario and Rabbids games and Star Fox appearing in Starlink, that seems particularly true now. If I had to guess which Ubisoft would make it in, I'd go with Rayman, though I could see Ezio from Assassin's Creed happening - Smash DLC tends to focus on humanoid characters, presumably because it makes development easier.

* Arc System Works: they've already got spirits in Smash, and they've gotten a lot more mainstream with games like Dragon Ball FighterZ. While I feel like they're less likely since we just got Kazuya and I doubt they'd do two fighting game characters back-to-back, they've done two RPG characters back-to-back several times, so it's still possible. I'd assume they'd go with Sol Badguy - while Ragna the Bloodedge from BlazBlue could work, Arc System Works owns both characters, and I think they'd go with the original rather than a character who's based on him. While they could go with Billy Lee from Double Dragon, they're best known for their fighting games, so I think they'd pick that to represent the company. (it would be nice to get a beat-em-up character in Smash, but I'd think that Kunio-Kun would have a more interesting art style)

* Koei-Tecmo: if they're going to add a Koei-Tecmo character, it seems like it's going to be Ryu Hayabusa. Considering that Mai Shiranui couldn't even get a spirit in Smash, let alone a background cameo, I don't see Kasumi from Dead or Alive making it in. As for Dynasty Warriors, I'm not sure if they'd add a character that's based on a historical figure as a playable character - they've added some characters based on real people as assist trophies (Dr. Kawashima and Dr. Wright), but that doesn't seem like the same thing.

c) a Capcom character

With the addition of Kazuya, Capcom's the only third party company involved in earlier Smash games that hasn't gotten a new unique playable character in Ultimate. (Konami got Simon and Richter; Sega got Joker; Namco got Kazuya; Square-Enix got Hero and Sephiroth) They got Ken, but considering what we know about the development of clones/echo fighters (in Melee, even if they didn't include all six of the clones, that still wouldn't give them enough time for one unique character), that's nowhere near the same amount of work. Out of these three broad categories, a Capcom character seems like the least likely, but there are still plenty of options:

* Phoenix Wright: he's probably been requested for the longest, and while his playstyle would be unorthodox (and they'd have to go with something completely different from UMvC3 - I don't think that playstyle would work with the larger stages and expanded mobility that Smash allows for), I could see that being seen as an interesting challenge for the development team, similar to Piranha Plant

* Dante: he's a popular pick, Devil May Cry is in something of a renaissance, and he's got so many moves that I've written four different movesets for him and have only barely scratched the surface of what he can do.

* Amaterasu: I could see this happening as a wildcard pick - Okami's gotten more popular over the years (the HD version being widely available definitely helps with that), it's a very different artstyle from what we're used to in Smash (allowing for some gorgeous stages and tons of references to Japanese culture), and as a Clover/Platinum game, there's no shortage of material to work with.

* Morrigan Aensland: she's Capcom's queen of crossovers, being up there with Akuma and Ryu in terms of making crossover appearances (she's arguably more famous for those than for her original games). As a fighting game character, it wouldn't be a stretch to include her in Smash, and it could work as a way to raise interest in her franchise, which seems to be something that Sakurai likes doing.

There are a ton of other Capcom characters who could be included, though - Mike Haggar, Viewtiful Joe, Nemesis or Claire Redfield from Resident Evil... I could go on and on.

I realize that writing down twelve or thirteen different characters for the single last spot is probably excessive (it's casting a wide net, and even then, I'll probably wind up being completely wrong and it turns out to be a character from a game that I've never heard of, or one that I ruled out for some reason), but I figured I should put my thoughts down.
 
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Twilord

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My stance on localizations and stuff is that it's the last pack, so hypothetically anything could happen. Maybe Nintendo would go with one last megaton to make sure all the attention a final Smash reveal would get would pay off, maybe they'll go with a lesser/region-centric character because most people who would buy the pass would have it by now. I'm open to different ideas.

Also because if we limit ourselves too much it's gonna be a really boring three months
Sakurai will add a giant beetle as a Bonus Fighter. This will be a nod to Sodatete! Mushiking and will leave folk gobstruck.


He will then explain the historical significance of the genre, which will leave people astounded he picked a random character from his own past because two thirds of how he explained the genre's significance involved Bandai examples, and most of the rest was about Nintendogs. Then folk will realise MushiKing belongs to SEGA, so he also passed on having a Chao for the giant beetle.
 
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GilTheGreat19

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Actually, this came up to my mind.
My personal answer is no.
But let me ask y'all for fun:

Do you guys think we DIDN'T get Heihachi as our Tekken character IN PART because of his appearance as a playable fighter in Playstation-All Stars Battle Royale?

Like I just said, my solid answer is no.
That game came out in November 2012, and according to Sakurai, despite his failed attempts, he TRIED to make a functioning Heihachi moveset in Sm4sh, which started development in October 2011.
 

Momotsuki

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"Created in the west" seems like a very arbitrary reason to include a character. There're many western characters that would make good additions, but not because they're western characters. Regional appeal is certainly a relevant factor, but being concerned about a fighter's region of origin would feel more like box-ticking than anything else.
 
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Michael the Spikester

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Do you guys think we DIDN'T get Heihachi as our Tekken character IN PART because of his appearance as a playable fighter in Playstation-All Stars Battle Royale?
No most likely because for the following reasons.

1. Kazuya was the main protagonist of the first Tekken game, hence the one and original protagonist of the three Mishima's.
2. Sakurai probably wanted him due to his unique devil abilities.
3. Out of respect for Heihachi's voice actor.
 

GilTheGreat19

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s for Dynasty Warriors, I'm not sure if they'd add a character that's based on a historical figure as a playable character - they've added some characters based on real people as assist trophies (Dr. Kawashima and Dr. Wright), but that doesn't seem like the same thing.
By this logic, even though his chances were already low to begin with, I think Kratos would be affected by this deduction, too.
He is based off a Greek mythologic divine personification of strength, so TECHNICALLY this could make him 4th party.
 

Opossum

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Why... Why is Umbrella from Skullgirls here?
This image has been around since the Artsy Omni Rayman hoax back in 2015. Ever since then, people had always asked why Umbrella was there.

To this day, we still don't know.
 
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GilTheGreat19

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No most likely because for the following reasons.

1. Kazuya was the main protagonist of the first Tekken game, hence the one and original protagonist of the three Mishima's.
2. Sakurai probably wanted him due to his unique devil abilities.
3. Out of respect for Heihachi's voice actor.

Great points!
Glad we both agree on no lol
And I completely forgot about point #3, R.I.P his voice actor : (
 

Pillow

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bottom text
Wait but I'd love this

My guesses for this last spot, if I had to attempt to narrow it down, fall into one of three categories:

a) a Nintendo character

I feel like this goes without saying, but it seems like there's a pretty big chance that the pass will end off with a Nintendo character. I don't think it would be used to promote any Switch games (there haven't been a ton of huge first party releases in the past few months, and there doesn't seem to be many scheduled between now and September, when I assume the next Smash announcement is), so unless we get something announced out of the blue, like a 3D Donkey Kong platformer or another Fire Emblem game, my guesses would be:

* Dixie Kong - she feels like one of those "why isn't she in Smash yet?" cases. Between Tropical Freeze, being one of the player characters in DKC2 (generally seen as the best in the series), and the headliner of DKC3, she seems like the last big Donkey Kong character, and one of the last big Nintendo characters, left to add.

* Cinderace - Pokemon always seems like a possibility; they tend to lean towards the starters, and I feel like Rillaboom would be seen as overlapping with Donkey Kong.

* Bandanna Waddle Dee - this seems like an outside chance, given that when it comes to Kirby, Sakurai seems to prefer focusing on the four games that he directed (Dream Land, Adventure, Super Star, and Air Ride, along with remakes of the first three). However, he's one of the most popular first party picks.

Maybe Elma if we get a port of Xenoblade Chronicles X announced - they've ported basically every other Wii U game to the Switch - but since we already got a Xenoblade character earlier in the pass, I doubt it. Porky could also happen if we get a Mother 3 port, Mother/Earthbound collection, or Earthbound remake, if they wanted to tie into any of those, but I sincerely doubt that any of those are happening. I realize that having a game on the Switch doesn't mean that a character will get into Smash, but between Byleth, Min Min, and Pyra/Mythra, it seems to help.

b) a new third party company

So far, all of the third party characters in Fighters Pass 2 have already been involved in Smash, in contrast to Smash 4's DLC (which added Square-Enix) and Fighters Pass 1 (which added Microsoft and SNK). I could see them wanting to branch out and use this opportunity to work with other companies. The four that stand out to me are:

* Activision: they have been pushing Crash Bandicoot really hard lately, and while they don't have any involvement in Smash at the moment, they've had no problem with crossing their franchises over with Nintendo's through things like Skylanders and the Switch version of Diablo 3.

* Ubisoft: they've usually been close to Nintendo, and between the two Mario and Rabbids games and Star Fox appearing in Starlink, that seems particularly true now. If I had to guess which Ubisoft would make it in, I'd go with Rayman, though I could see Ezio from Assassin's Creed happening - Smash DLC tends to focus on humanoid characters, presumably because it makes development easier.

* Arc System Works: they've already got spirits in Smash, and they've gotten a lot more mainstream with games like Dragon Ball FighterZ. While I feel like they're less likely since we just got Kazuya and I doubt they'd do two fighting game characters back-to-back, they've done two RPG characters back-to-back several times, so it's still possible. I'd assume they'd go with Sol Badguy - while Ragna the Bloodedge from BlazBlue could work, Arc System Works owns both characters, and I think they'd go with the original rather than a character who's based on him. While they could go with Billy Lee from Double Dragon, they're best known for their fighting games, so I think they'd pick that to represent the company. (it would be nice to get a beat-em-up character in Smash, but I'd think that Kunio-Kun would have a more interesting art style)

* Koei-Tecmo: if they're going to add a Koei-Tecmo character, it seems like it's going to be Ryu Hayabusa. Considering that Mai Shiranui couldn't even get a spirit in Smash, let alone a background cameo, I don't see Kasumi from Dead or Alive making it in. As for Dynasty Warriors, I'm not sure if they'd add a character that's based on a historical figure as a playable character - they've added some characters based on real people as assist trophies (Dr. Kawashima and Dr. Wright), but that doesn't seem like the same thing.

c) a Capcom character

With the addition of Kazuya, Capcom's the only third party company involved in earlier Smash games that hasn't gotten a new unique playable character in Ultimate. (Konami got Simon and Richter; Sega got Joker; Namco got Kazuya; Square-Enix got Hero and Sephiroth) They got Ken, but considering what we know about the development of clones/echo fighters (in Melee, even if they didn't include all six of the clones, that still wouldn't give them enough time for one unique character), that's nowhere near the same amount of work. Out of these three broad categories, a Capcom character seems like the least likely, but there are still plenty of options:

* Phoenix Wright: he's probably been requested for the longest, and while his playstyle would be unorthodox (and they'd have to go with something completely different from UMvC3 - I don't think that playstyle would work with the larger stages and expanded mobility that Smash allows for), I could see that being seen as an interesting challenge for the development team, similar to Piranha Plant

* Dante: he's a popular pick, Devil May Cry is in something of a renaissance, and he's got so many moves that I've written four different movesets for him and have only barely scratched the surface of what he can do.

* Amaterasu: I could see this happening as a wildcard pick - Okami's gotten more popular over the years (the HD version being widely available definitely helps with that), it's a very different artstyle from what we're used to in Smash (allowing for some gorgeous stages and tons of references to Japanese culture), and as a Clover/Platinum game, there's no shortage of material to work with.

* Morrigan Aensland: she's Capcom's queen of crossovers, being up there with Akuma and Ryu in terms of making crossover appearances (she's arguably more famous for those than for her original games). As a fighting game character, it wouldn't be a stretch to include her in Smash, and it could work as a way to raise interest in her franchise, which seems to be something that Sakurai likes doing.

There are a ton of other Capcom characters who could be included, though - Mike Haggar, Viewtiful Joe, Nemesis or Claire Redfield from Resident Evil... I could go on and on.

I realize that writing down twelve or thirteen different characters for the single last spot is probably excessive (it's casting a wide net, and even then, I'll probably wind up being completely wrong and it turns out to be a character from a game that I've never heard of, or one that I ruled out for some reason), but I figured I should put my thoughts down.
Interesting choices. I really feel we won't end on a Nintendo character, and I don't think we'll get 2 fighting game characters in a single pass so I'm also not really feeling to great about Sol's chances.

I do agree that Capcom seems much more likely after the Kazuya reveal though...honestly I feel pretty good about Jill or Leon.
 

Geno Boost

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I think SNK getting a 2nd rep might be a front runner on the table.
Metal slug rep most likely and it could come with 4 characters at once which would be an alt Marco, Eri, Tarma, Fio.
Surprisingly we don’t have a gun user on fighter pack 2
Also I think it’s a good ending for smash if it ends off with multiple characters at once
 
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Wigglerman

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It still feels surreal that Kazyua is here. Jeez, man. Big Daddy Mishima makes me want to play seriously again.
 

GilTheGreat19

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I think SNK getting a 2nd rep might be a front runner on the table.
Metal slug rep most likely and it could come with 4 characters at once which would be an alt Marco, Eri, Tarma, Fio.
Surprisingly we don’t have a gun user on fighter pack 2
I mean if Marco was happening, then perhaps all these Metal Slug songs can be played on both the MS stage and KOF Stadium.
Does seem sus that Marco didn’t get a spirit either
 
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