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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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Dan Quixote

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I am so sad individual stage DLC seems dead in the water, it was one of the best parts of Sm4sh. Think of all the cool Switch games that could have made for great stages! Snipperclips is an obvious one, New Horizons could have replaced Tortimer Island easy, Pokémon Sword and Shield's Wild Area as like a traveling stage would be perfect, Monster Hunter in general just needs a stage... Yeah a lot to possibly work with.
 

Idon

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I am so sad individual stage DLC seems dead in the water, it was one of the best parts of Sm4sh. Think of all the cool Switch games that could have made for great stages! Snipperclips is an obvious one, New Horizons could have replaced Tortimer Island easy, Pokémon Sword and Shield's Wild Area as like a traveling stage would be perfect, Monster Hunter in general just needs a stage... Yeah a lot to possibly work with.
Personally, I'd like if at least the boss-only stages were playable normally.

Sucks that Sakurai showcases Kazuya's final smash on Ganon's Destroyed Hyrule Castle but we can't even play on that stage lmao.
 
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MonkeyDLenny

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At this junction I've more or less thrown in the towel for either of my remaining two wants. Sora is a never-ever, and Crash was really an "E3 or never" tier reveal.

The only way I can see Crash getting in now is if MAYBE the final reveal happens in September and it lines up with his anniversary, but that's more or less putting the bandicoot on life support at this point.

I legit have no idea who is taking that last slot, but odds are it'll be another lukewarm first party that ends Smash on a whimper
 

Shroob

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But

What if.... this update.... we can?
Actually, what if this does happen?


The Stage Select Screen DOES have 3 empty spots, who's to say that maybe 1 of them will be filled in with the "Boss arena", that you can cycle its different layouts like the Minecraft stage?


Granted, I'm like 99.9% sure they just used that due to aesthetics and it was nothing more than developer tools.
 

WahHahaha

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At this junction I've more or less thrown in the towel for either of my remaining two wants. Sora is a never-ever, and Crash was really an "E3 or never" tier reveal.

The only way I can see Crash getting in now is if MAYBE the final reveal happens in September and it lines up with his anniversary, but that's more or less putting the bandicoot on life support at this point.

I legit have no idea who is taking that last slot, but odds are it'll be another lukewarm first party that ends Smash on a whimper

Crash wasn't E3 or never. There are plenty of series bigger than Crash with more installments. God of War, Tekken and even Mario Party have him beat in sales.

I really don't think Crash is as huge of a character as he's made out to be. I'd even argue that most of the 3rd parties we've gotten besides Banjo and Terry were bigger.

I don't hate Crash, but he's not E3 or never, he's just "never" in my opinion.
 
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JustKindaBoredUKno

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I am so sad individual stage DLC seems dead in the water, it was one of the best parts of Sm4sh. Think of all the cool Switch games that could have made for great stages! Snipperclips is an obvious one, New Horizons could have replaced Tortimer Island easy, Pokémon Sword and Shield's Wild Area as like a traveling stage would be perfect, Monster Hunter in general just needs a stage... Yeah a lot to possibly work with.
I do wish we had a more natural feeling Pokémon stage. Spear pillar/silph Co are neat but the Pokémon built into the stage are little more than glorified pokeball spawns. I wanna see Pokémon interact with the stage in a more natural environment, maybe occasionally turning into stage hazards if you landed in the middle of something
 

Staarih

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I think stages (especially returning ones) would work well as the so-called bonus DLC. Iirc the additional stages in Smash4 began getting in later in the DLC cycle, around Ryu/Roy maybe? So we could be seeing them later here too. I think as Ultimate requires every new fighter to come with a stage has put a halt on extra stage DLC, but content like that would be cool post-fighters pass.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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I do wish we had a more natural feeling Pokémon stage. Spear pillar/silph Co are neat but the Pokémon built into the stage are little more than glorified pokeball spawns. I wanna see Pokémon interact with the stage in a more natural environment, maybe occasionally turning into stage hazards if you landed in the middle of something
They have something similar with Pokemon Stadium 1 and 2. Just add the next name in the overall "series" of games, Pokemon Colosseum, but mostly based it upon XD: Gale of Darkness. Lots of Shadow Pokemon fighting with each other here and there. A nice classic reference, and lots of locations to cycle through.

Plus, there's multiple types you could use to represent those areas, if you want to go that route as the core reason. We only have 8 via the two stages combined. Sure, it's an ollllllld game, but that's fine. Not everything has to be hard-based upon a recent release(obviously you can only do so much with DLC packs, due to no new games, what your character design basis is, etc.)
 
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spicynun

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There was a problem fetching the tweet

This is a very interesting twitter thread that honestly makes Ultimate look surreal, especially as the thread later mentions CastleVania and I'm pretty sure we can put Ninja Gaiden on here too.


Also Croc is our final newcomer now, tank controls for everyone
The fact Harry Potter on PS1 sold more than Ocarina of Time shocks me.
 

Cutie Gwen

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The fact Harry Potter on PS1 sold more than Ocarina of Time shocks me.
The more I think about it the worse it gets. Like, you'd think Metroid was a huge franchise but even during it's golden age from 2002 to 2007, it actually wasn't as big as it's made out to be, as if Dread sells over a million, only a third of the franchise would habe achieved over a million sales or how Bloodstained RotN selling over a million makes it more successful than the game it took the most inspiration from. ****'s wild
 

PeridotGX

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There was a problem fetching the tweet

This is a very interesting twitter thread that honestly makes Ultimate look surreal, especially as the thread later mentions CastleVania and I'm pretty sure we can put Ninja Gaiden on here too.


Also Croc is our final newcomer now, tank controls for everyone
The takeaway from this is that one person that's nostalgic for a game can rewrite history, making it's impact seem far bigger than it actually is.

time to make scribblenauts one of the biggest games on the ds
 

osby

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10 more days til Kazuya presumably drops after his presentation.


Then, we have about 2 months til September, since June's basically over by that point.


Yeah, I'm going into Speculation Hibernation once Kazuya's out, lol.
But you're going to miss out on people arguing over nothing but Crash and Pokemon, using only the subjective interpretations of "disappointing last reveals" non-stop for months.
 

Super Devon

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Ok so I haven’t posted here since the day before the direct but uhhh
I’m ecstatic that Kazuya is in Smash
I thought it was all over for a Tekken rep since the Heihachi Mii costume was revealed, but we were all proven wrong.
As someone who grew up with both Tekken and Smash, this is legit a dream come true for me.
Thank you so much Nintendo, Sakurai, Harada, and the entire Smash team.
I no longer care for who the final character is, I’m that happy and content.
 

Cyberfire

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Ok so I haven’t posted here since the day before the direct but uhhh
I’m ecstatic that Kazuya is in Smash
I thought it was all over for a Tekken rep since the Heihachi Mii costume was revealed, but we were all proven wrong.
As someone who grew up with both Tekken and Smash, this is legit a dream come true for me.
Thank you so much Nintendo, Sakurai, Harada, and the entire Smash team.
I no longer care for who the final character is, I’m that happy and content.
Wholesome take. I'm happy for you.
 

Cosmic77

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Crash wasn't E3 or never. There are plenty of series bigger than Crash with more installments. God of War, Tekken and even Mario Party have him beat in sales.

I really don't think Crash is as huge of a character as he's made out to be. I'd even argue that most of the 3rd parties we've gotten besides Banjo and Terry were bigger.

I don't hate Crash, but he's not E3 or never, he's just "never" in my opinion.
At the very least, I'd put Crash a few pegs above Banjo, a character who ended up being an E3 reveal.

While I do agree that Crash's popularity is greatly exaggerated, I feel he'd be a more than worthy E3 reveal. Whether or not I think he's very likely to be F11 is another story, but still.
 

BlondeLombax

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Also Croc is our final newcomer now, tank controls for everyone

You can tell what I've been watchin' lately.

On another note, why do we still think that E3 holds any water for a character's hype-value, anyway? Plenty of the biggest names in Smash weren't shown off at the event, and we even got a niche reveal with Min Min last year (when E3 was supposed to be).
 
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Godzillathewonderdog

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Pic of the Day:

There was a problem fetching the tweet
God, I am so excited to have a Tekken character in Smash. I love the series so much and it’s inclusion is well deserved. It fells like we have all the really big Japanese game series well represented in Smash… well aside from Resident Evil, which I can see why the would be hesitant on adding a fighter from that series.


Crash wasn't E3 or never. There are plenty of series bigger than Crash with more installments. God of War, Tekken and even Mario Party have him beat in sales.

I really don't think Crash is as huge of a character as he's made out to be. I'd even argue that most of the 3rd parties we've gotten besides Banjo and Terry were bigger.

I don't hate Crash, but he's not E3 or never, he's just "never" in my opinion.
Most of the 3rd party series in Smash have sold less than the Crash Bandicoot series. The sales numbers for Nitro Fueled and Crash 4 are currently unknown, and the amount those games sold most likely puts the series above God of War, Tekken and possibly Mario Party in sales. The first 3 Crash Bandicoot games are among the top 10 best selling PS1 games. Crash N. Sane Trilogy sold over 10 million copies. Crash and Sonic are the only series to have been serious competition to Mario, and many saw Crash as the mascot of the PlayStation.

What?
 
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Swamp Sensei

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No, I agree with you.


Truthfully speaking, I'm still surprised Ring Fit got Spirit Event'd.
I think I may know why.

Ring Fit Adventurer is very much a Sakurai pick, but I can imagine Nintendo not making it a priority. Nintendo's first party picks usually focus on smaller series.
 

NonSpecificGuy

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There was a problem fetching the tweet

This is a very interesting twitter thread that honestly makes Ultimate look surreal, especially as the thread later mentions CastleVania and I'm pretty sure we can put Ninja Gaiden on here too.


Also Croc is our final newcomer now, tank controls for everyone
I have a few problems with this, firstly Wikipedia isn’t exactly the most trustworthy of sites, secondly this is assuming 0 people bought the Xbox Arcade version and 0 people bought Rare Replay which are simply not true. But hey let’s assume that only the N64 version was ever released for the continuity of this post. Add that with the fact that the N64 sold around 34 million and the PlayStation sold around 100 million and it’s easy to see, if the numbers are correct, why Croc sold as much as Banjo. A LOT of people who owned a 64 owned Banjo AND Banjo Tooie because what the poster seemed to ignore was that Banjo-Tooie was 4 spaces down with 3 million units as well.

For context of attachment rates is that Banjo and Tooie has about an 8.5% attachment rate while croc has about a… 0.8% attachment rate, and that’s being generous. You know what game does have a comparable PlayStation attachment rate to Banjo though? Final Fantasy VII

It’s pretty disingenuous to just wave off everything everyone from a specific era loves to “oh it’s the just popular because of influencers” collectathon games didn’t become a genre because of youtubers, indie games following the formula of Banjo like Hat in Time and Yooka-Laylee didn’t happen because of Youtubers. This is just people not understanding the difference between influence and sales.

Edit: beyond all this you brought up Bloodstained and yeah, most new games released now will have a better chance of outpacing their predecessor. The market now is simply a lot larger and when a game comes to multiple systems alongside it then it’s already better off.
 
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Twilord

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It’s pretty disingenuous to just wave off everything everyone from a specific era loves to “oh it’s the just popular because of influencers” collectathon games didn’t become a genre because of youtubers, indie games following the formula of Banjo like Hat in Time and Yooka-Laylee didn’t happen because of Youtubers. This is just people not understanding the difference between influence and sales.
I had a conversation a while back where someone thought Death Battle invented the idea of "Pokémon VS Digimon". The young have not experienced as much of history as you or I.
 

Michael the Spikester

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You know, with all almost said and done, I'm still a little outraged we don't have a Tetris stage.

It'd never happen, but imagine a weird world where we get a Stage Pass DLC. What stages would you want? Series without potential fighters get bonus points.
I'm still shocked myself we don't have a Mario Party stage or Bowser's Castle.
 

Dinoman96

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For what its worth, Cloud was by far and away the biggest DLC newcomer reveal for Smash 4...and he ended up being revealed in a random November Direct in 2015.

It would be kinda funny if the last FP2 character actually was an E3 calibur megaton character like Crash or Chief or Sora, after all the doom and gloom about it ending off with a whimper.
 
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rychu_supadude

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I do wish we had a more natural feeling Pokémon stage. Spear pillar/silph Co are neat but the Pokémon built into the stage are little more than glorified pokeball spawns. I wanna see Pokémon interact with the stage in a more natural environment, maybe occasionally turning into stage hazards if you landed in the middle of something
Oh, for sure. The stages that we have make sense for the times they were chosen, but a series that's about travelling through regions is as overdue to have a good travelling stage as Mario is to have a Bowser's Castle.

There's also not enough talk about how Pokémon pretty much has the worst characters-to-songs ratio of any series, mostly due to the lack of ported songs instead of just remixes. It's weird how they decided the 3DS soundchip was good enough to include a couple of ports in Smash 4 and then completely backtracked for Ultimate.

For what its worth, Cloud was by far and away the biggest DLC newcomer reveal for Smash 4...and he ended up being revealed in a random November Direct in 2015.

It would be kinda funny if the last FP2 character actually was an E3 calibur megaton character like Crash or Chief or Sora, after all the doom and gloom about it ending off with a whimper.
It's not hard to see where the "E3 or bust" mentality for Crash came from, but it clearly doesn't hold any water. There was some level of strategy in revealing both Hero and B&K at the same event, but in general they're just going to reveal them when they're ready.
 

Cutie Gwen

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I have a few problems with this, firstly Wikipedia isn’t exactly the most trustworthy of sites, secondly this is assuming 0 people bought the Xbox Arcade version and 0 people bought Rare Replay which are simply not true. But hey let’s assume that only the N64 version was ever released for the continuity of this post. Add that with the fact that the N64 sold around 34 million and the PlayStation sold around 100 million and it’s easy to see, if the numbers are correct, why Croc sold as much as Banjo. A LOT of people who owned a 64 owned Banjo AND Banjo Tooie because what the poster seemed to ignore was that Banjo-Tooie was 4 spaces down with 3 million units as well.

For context of attachment rates is that Banjo and Tooie has about an 8.5% attachment rate while croc has about a… 0.8% attachment rate, and that’s being generous. You know what game does have a comparable PlayStation attachment rate to Banjo though? Final Fantasy VII

It’s pretty disingenuous to just wave off everything everyone from a specific era loves to “oh it’s the just popular because of influencers” collectathon games didn’t become a genre because of youtubers, indie games following the formula of Banjo like Hat in Time and Yooka-Laylee didn’t happen because of Youtubers. This is just people not understanding the difference between influence and sales.

Edit: beyond all this you brought up Bloodstained and yeah, most new games released now will have a better chance of outpacing their predecessor. The market now is simply a lot larger and when a game comes to multiple systems alongside it then it’s already better off.
I think you're too focused on the example given in the specific tweet, again, it's a thread and it brings up CastleVania not being in the top 70 best selling NES games yet despite that people will act like CastleVania was a must have on the NES whereas games like Hydlide, Ice Climber, Kid Icarus all having done better than the NES games yet being seen as significantly more obscure. Those were all on the same system too so attachment rates among consoles aren't a factor
 

Dinoman96

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Hell, people were already dooming and glooming about how Steve and Sephiroth would be the last "big" characters of this pass and that the rest of it would consist of Terry level third parties or more Nintendo shill reps. And then we got Kazuya, which while admittably isn't as super exciting for most folk, still comes from a massive franchise.
 
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Faso115

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Crash can still happen. Maybe i'm a hopeless optimist but i don't believe certain characters are locked behind certain events just because they appeal to a certain demographic. Like, If Terry is meant to appear to the Latam region (a region that never comes up, its just used to push some agendas for some reason) and he wasn't revealed in "Directo de Nintendo para mexico" or some stuff like that.

Crash can still show up in random direct 768 or a exclusive showcase just like Byleth got. Sames for Master Chief, Sora, insert whatever high requested or famous character. Smash does whatever it wants, it's not held back by random rules made by fans.

"Oh sorry we can't show crash even though he is meant to release this month. He is meant for E3 so we are delaying the DLC till last year. See you later" - Sakurai, probably
 

SKX31

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I have a few problems with this, firstly Wikipedia isn’t exactly the most trustworthy of sites, secondly this is assuming 0 people bought the Xbox Arcade version and 0 people bought Rare Replay which are simply not true. But hey let’s assume that only the N64 version was ever released for the continuity of this post. Add that with the fact that the N64 sold around 34 million and the PlayStation sold around 100 million and it’s easy to see, if the numbers are correct, why Croc sold as much as Banjo. A LOT of people who owned a 64 owned Banjo AND Banjo Tooie because what the poster seemed to ignore was that Banjo-Tooie was 4 spaces down with 3 million units as well.

For context of attachment rates is that Banjo and Tooie has about an 8.5% attachment rate while croc has about a… 0.8% attachment rate, and that’s being generous. You know what game does have a comparable PlayStation attachment rate to Banjo though? Final Fantasy VII

It’s pretty disingenuous to just wave off everything everyone from a specific era loves to “oh it’s the just popular because of influencers” collectathon games didn’t become a genre because of youtubers, indie games following the formula of Banjo like Hat in Time and Yooka-Laylee didn’t happen because of Youtubers. This is just people not understanding the difference between influence and sales.

Edit: beyond all this you brought up Bloodstained and yeah, most new games released now will have a better chance of outpacing their predecessor. The market now is simply a lot larger and when a game comes to multiple systems alongside it then it’s already better off.
I think you're too focused on the example given in the specific tweet, again, it's a thread and it brings up CastleVania not being in the top 70 best selling NES games yet despite that people will act like CastleVania was a must have on the NES whereas games like Hydlide, Ice Climber, Kid Icarus all having done better than the NES games yet being seen as significantly more obscure. Those were all on the same system too so attachment rates among consoles aren't a factor
I looked over the sourcing the Wikipedia articles use, and the Croc numbers are substantiated mainly through articles: the 3 million number comes from this article. While the article doesn't cite anything, there's a previous press release from THQ / Fox Interactive - Croc's publisher (2000) that mentions 2.4 million copies. I do find the 3 million mark believable in this context*, and we're not counting the PC version (which anecdotally I had as a kid and played, I think I still have the CD somewhere.). The Banjo-Kazooie numbers come from a CESA report (the link to the N64 report was a bit difficult to find, so I linked to the organization's name) and I believe those numbers because CESA is deeply connected with the industry.

While it can be rather disingenous to wave off everything there is still a point to be made here. It's not just going to be about attach rates - CastleVania did not get one game over 1 million sold until well after the series had established itself and had a somewhat low attach rate as a result - but also what kind of position the developer is in and the medium-long term effects. Series like CastleVania and Mega Man could retain steam because the games were not that difficult to produce (judging by the number of 'em) and did overall well enough to keep the gravy train rolling. Also, media appearances - even ones like Captain N - do help.

Croc was talked about a lot at the time judging by Fox's plans to expand the franchise* with a cartoon and other stuff, but that never came to pass. Croc 2 didn't get much of anywhere (I haven't played it myself so I can't comment on its quality really, but I can't imagine it sold that well) and Argonaut went defunct in 2004. Contrast this with B-K, Rayman and Spyro who have stayed in the limelight partly because the developers survived in some form or another, because they're more identified with certain platforms and come to mind sooner as a result, and because the games have seen more active (re)releases than Croc (Croc's last rerelease was when the original got included in Sony's Greatest hits back in '98!). That and Croc got kinda tarnished by hindsight, especially with regards to tank controls in a platformer.

That said, Croc's a pretty good platformer even with the tank controls. I recommend trying it out if you can get a hold of it.

*(Considering Croc's a spiritual successor to Yoshi, I'm not surprised in the slightest.)
 
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3BitSaurus

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I have a few problems with this, firstly Wikipedia isn’t exactly the most trustworthy of sites, secondly this is assuming 0 people bought the Xbox Arcade version and 0 people bought Rare Replay which are simply not true. But hey let’s assume that only the N64 version was ever released for the continuity of this post. Add that with the fact that the N64 sold around 34 million and the PlayStation sold around 100 million and it’s easy to see, if the numbers are correct, why Croc sold as much as Banjo. A LOT of people who owned a 64 owned Banjo AND Banjo Tooie because what the poster seemed to ignore was that Banjo-Tooie was 4 spaces down with 3 million units as well.

For context of attachment rates is that Banjo and Tooie has about an 8.5% attachment rate while croc has about a… 0.8% attachment rate, and that’s being generous. You know what game does have a comparable PlayStation attachment rate to Banjo though? Final Fantasy VII

It’s pretty disingenuous to just wave off everything everyone from a specific era loves to “oh it’s the just popular because of influencers” collectathon games didn’t become a genre because of youtubers, indie games following the formula of Banjo like Hat in Time and Yooka-Laylee didn’t happen because of Youtubers. This is just people not understanding the difference between influence and sales.

Edit: beyond all this you brought up Bloodstained and yeah, most new games released now will have a better chance of outpacing their predecessor. The market now is simply a lot larger and when a game comes to multiple systems alongside it then it’s already better off.
Not to mention, it uses only sales as a metric while failing to take target audience into account. Banjo-Kazooie is still among the top 20 best selling games on the N64 - people often forget how poor the third party support was compared to the PS1. No, really, search how many licensed PS1 games there are compared to the N64. Meanwhile, Croc is closer to the top 40 on the PS1 - and that's from a Wikipedia chart.

Also according to sales data, BK is only outshined in its genre by... SM64 and DK64. Two pre-established francises. Meanwhile, Croc is behind... all three Crash games, all three Spyro games, the first Rayman and... Oddworld. All of them new series at the time. Even without going into specifics about gameplay, quality and legacy, it's easy to see why BK impacted people more than Croc did.

Using sales as the only metric is a rather poor way to do it, because then we'd say goodbye to 90% of the roster - including some 3rd parties, even. By that logic, we should have Resident Evil and Monster Hunter in Smash replacing Mega Man and Street Fighter, because if those series sold more, surely they have a better legacy, right?

This isn't some "Nintendo influencers are controlling history" thing, it's simply people talking about games thay like and the fact that many of these games, like Castlevania and BK, also have a decent amount of history and legacy to support them.

As for how that applies to Smash... well, it's Nintendo fans talking about games they played on their Nintendo systems that they think would be cool on a Nintendo crossover game. Seriously, if you expected anything different, I'd argue that's on you.
 

Rie Sonomura

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You know, with all almost said and done, I'm still a little outraged we don't have a Tetris stage.

It'd never happen, but imagine a weird world where we get a Stage Pass DLC. What stages would you want? Series without potential fighters get bonus points.
If I can’t get Elma, a Noctilum/Sylvalum stage with X music would be dope

I just wanna hear Uncontrollable in Smash somehow ok idc how

that ISN’T modding. I don’t wanna be banned from the eshop.
 
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LiveStudioAudience

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There was a problem fetching the tweet

This is a very interesting twitter thread that honestly makes Ultimate look surreal, especially as the thread later mentions CastleVania and I'm pretty sure we can put Ninja Gaiden on here too.


Also Croc is our final newcomer now, tank controls for everyone
This feels like case of putting the cart before the horse, assuming that Banjo-Kazooie’s legacy was created by content creators and not that the impact it left on them is why they made videos about the series to begin with. I’m reminded a bit of the narrative I’ve seen from certain Sonic fans that no one disliked the Adventure titles until the Game Grumps, ignoring the fact that criticism against them could be found as early as the SA1 DX release if not earlier.

Quite frankly I don’t think YouTubers wield that much influence over gaming legacies, and that it’s far more likely that Banjo has simply endured as a game far more than Croc. It’s not unlike how Willy Wonka or The Thing have gone on to become critically acclaimed and beloved far more in the decades since their initial release when they were trounced at the box office by movies that have become more forgotten.
 
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Guynamednelson

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Crash can still happen. Maybe i'm a hopeless optimist but i don't believe certain characters are locked behind certain events just because they appeal to a certain demographic. Like, If Terry is meant to appear to the Latam region (a region that never comes up, its just used to push some agendas for some reason) and he wasn't revealed in "Directo de Nintendo para mexico" or some stuff like that.

Crash can still show up in random direct 768 or a exclusive showcase just like Byleth got. Sames for Master Chief, Sora, insert whatever high requested or famous character. Smash does whatever it wants, it's not held back by random rules made by fans.

"Oh sorry we can't show crash even though he is meant to release this month. He is meant for E3 so we are delaying the DLC till last year. See you later" - Sakurai, probably
"Hype" characters don't have to be shown at E3, but you have to pay attention to how the finales always appeal to a different audience than earlier reveals. And we already got two PS1 characters.
 

Garteam

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There was a problem fetching the tweet

This is a very interesting twitter thread that honestly makes Ultimate look surreal, especially as the thread later mentions CastleVania and I'm pretty sure we can put Ninja Gaiden on here too.


Also Croc is our final newcomer now, tank controls for everyone
I don't think it's that strange or hypocritical that many of the classic games we celebrate today were not massive financial successes back in the day. Now that these games are competing in the retro market rather than the mainstream one, the consumers for these kinds of games have largely changed. Namely, the people who are playing these games are now adults consciously picking them, not parents buying games on behalf of their children. Because of this demographic shift, there's a larger focus on quality over marketability or mass appeal, which is giving some games a great second life and leading others into obscurity quicker than they would have otherwise arrived.

People prefer Ocarina of Time and Banjo-Kazooie to Harry Potter and Croc because they're just better games. There's really not much at play beyond that.
 
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Inferno7

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Ok so I haven’t posted here since the day before the direct but uhhh
I’m ecstatic that Kazuya is in Smash
I thought it was all over for a Tekken rep since the Heihachi Mii costume was revealed, but we were all proven wrong.
As someone who grew up with both Tekken and Smash, this is legit a dream come true for me.
Thank you so much Nintendo, Sakurai, Harada, and the entire Smash team.
I no longer care for who the final character is, I’m that happy and content.
this was pretty much my reaction when I got Sephiroth
I'm more of a MK and MvC fan before Tekken, but this was a huge W for the fighting game community and I'm glad they went with this pick (even if I would've slightly preferred Jin, both Namco & Tekken deserved a rep).
It's weird, nearly all of the FP1 picks weren't enough to get me hooked on the DLC, those characters just kinda existed to me. Nothing compared to the absolute bombshell that FP2 has been, with nearly everyone being characters I like (bar Min Min, I don't hate her but I'm not familiar with her game) or that I actively wanted. Best Smash game I've ever played, period.
 
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