Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Shroob]

Even Lucario was promoted to some extend before his appearance in Brawl.

The only time this has really backfired for them was Zoroark, who you can tell they wanted to be "Lucario 2", but it just didn't work.


GRANTED, maybe the fact that you couldn't even get a ****ing Zoroark in B/W1 without an event had a lot to do with that, it wasn't an accessible Pokemon like Lucario or the starters are.

 

[WahHahaha]

Also Imran has a history of using the term "Smash cut" in tweets

https://twitter.com/search?lang=en&q=smash%20cut%20(from%3Aimranzomg)&src=typed_query

I doubt he's hinting at anything. He just likes using that term.

 

[perfectchaos83]

The only time this has really backfired for them was Zoroark, who you can tell they wanted to be "Lucario 2", but it just didn't work.


GRANTED, maybe the fact that you couldn't even get a ****ing Zoroark in B/W1 without an event had a lot to do with that, it wasn't an accessible Pokemon like Lucario or the starters are.

I don't know what the **** they were thinking making Zoroark event only in BW.

 

[Staarih]

A 4 in 1 character seems a bit overkill, sure, but I feel like a moveset around the Champions' abilities or something is doable, something speculated for Link pre-Ultimate iirc.
Though the question of who would be the base is still up in the air.

 

[subterrestrial]

I don't know what the **** they were thinking making Zoroark event only in BW.

rly wish we were in the alternative timeline where gen 5 lucario caught on and got into smash

 

[Arcanir]

The only time this has really backfired for them was Zoroark, who you can tell they wanted to be "Lucario 2", but it just didn't work.


GRANTED, maybe the fact that you couldn't even get a ****ing Zoroark in B/W1 without an event had a lot to do with that, it wasn't an accessible Pokemon like Lucario or the starters are.

Honestly it felt like they just gave up on Zoroark as after the movie as its treatment was just baffling. BW had the event thing, the main anime completely ignored it until the filler arc of the last season, spinoffs prioritized other Pokemon like the Cover Legendaries, Starters, or even Axew, and upon B2W2 they moved back to pushing old favorites like Lucario, Charizard and the like. Despite being positioned to be the next Lucario, they didn't commit to it nearly as much as Lucario as he was everywhere once Gen 4 got going, Zoroark fell to the wayside and never got the chance to be its Gen's face.

 

[SharkLord]

The last time I wrote to a real-life friend why I thought a character was getting in, the character got in (it was steve)

time to tell my friend who doesn't really like rpgs why we're getting undertale

While you're at it make sure you mention how it was inspired by Touhou so you can go on a tangent on how Reimu is also getting in and guarantee we are both satisfied please and thank you

 

[Staarih]

Honestly it felt like they just gave up on Zoroark as after the movie as its treatment was just baffling. BW had the event thing, the main anime completely ignored it until the filler arc of the last season, spinoffs prioritized other Pokemon like the Cover Legendaries, Starters, or even Axew, and upon B2W2 they moved back to pushing old favorites like Lucario, Charizard and the like. Despite being positioned to be the next Lucario, they didn't commit to it nearly as much as Lucario as he was everywhere once Gen 4 got going, Zoroark fell to the wayside and never got the chance to be its Gen's face.

I agree, they really relegated Zoroark to just another regular Pokemon despite all the build up it had pre-BW. A bigger role in the anime or a Mega or something would've been much appreciated as I find Zoroark to be really cool and I was a supporter for Smash4. And to be fair, had the timing been right and a 5th Gen Pokemon was on the table, I think Zoroark would have been the pick.

It was number 2 of all Unova Pokemon in the Pokemon of the Year vote last year, so I guess it's not all that bad for Zoroark.

 

[CannonStreak]

It's 12:00 AM here, so...

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

time is winding down...

 

[Shroob]

It's 12:00 AM here, so...

The themesong for all of today.

 

[PSIGuy]

there's still 1 day, 9 hours and 24 minutes until the direct so it's a bit premature

then again since it's on at 2am and I'm staying up for it I see it as being only one sleep away :V

 

[Shroob]

there's still 1 day, 9 hours and 24 minutes until the direct so it's a bit premature

then again since it's on at 2am and I'm staying up for it I see it as being only one sleep away :V

We'll just slap the Final Hours song from Majora's Mask up at midnight tonight and call it good enough.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Glad to see we haven’t gotten spoiled yet. I hope for a surprise at E3 rather than a boring name drop from a leaker. Theres not much time left. Hard to believe it might be ending soon, the day before I move no less.

 

[Shroob]

If my math is correct


Exactly 33 hours to go.


Will it be a single reveal? Will it be both and speculation come to an end in one fell swoop? The chance it could very well be the latter has me kinda... feeling nostalgic, tbh. I knew this day would come, and trust me, I'm glad it could be almost here, but it's been a hell of a ride, even if the home stretch dragged on a ton.

 

[LAA9000]

Knowing the timing and my luck, it seems very likely Brushie will spill the beans on the Direct while I'm either in school today or asleep tonight. If they do, I will stay away from social media until it officially airs, and leave this thread again once it has. To be honest, I only rejoined this thread briefly to see the current status on leaks and know which ones are real or fake.

 

[ForsakenM]

Delete this please.

 

[ForsakenM]

If my math is correct


Exactly 33 hours to go.


Will it be a single reveal? Will it be both and speculation come to an end in one fell swoop? The chance it could very well be the latter has me kinda... feeling nostalgic, tbh. I knew this day would come, and trust me, I'm glad it could be almost here, but it's been a hell of a ride, even if the home stretch dragged on a ton.

Last night I worked up a big, dope post on all the things that suggest we could easily get both CP 10 and CP 11 here at E3...but I lost the whole thing.

Not sure if I feel like going that ham to try and rebuild it. Instead, I'm more curious for those of you who also think we coudl get both this Tues, why you think it could happen.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Pokemon does it because they kinda curate what Pokemon they want to be successful, Nintendo's never put one champion above the others, and having one get in Smash but not the other 3 would do just that.


Like, I don't think it's a coincidence that Greninja got in Smash, and was also absolutely pushed in regards to marketing and game, and the same for Incineroar to a lesser extent.

Incineroar is exactly what I was thinking of. We know Decidueye was considered, but it also made it into Pokken as the sole Gen 7 "rep". Any starter pokemon is going to be heavily promoted, and Incineroar isn't exactly the most heavily promoted Gen 7 pokemon either.

All starters are marketable. So are all 4 champions. Just because one isn't more obvious over the others doesn't mean Nintendo/Sakurai will go "oops they're all just TOO marketable, I guess we can't add any of them."

That said I'm convinced a Zelda rep isn't happening mostly because of the guardian armor, because BotW 1 is past its marketing window, and because unlike Rex the demand for a Champion is isn't there.

 

[Shroob]

Last night I worked up a big, dope post on all the things that suggest we could easily get both CP 10 and CP 11 here at E3...but I lost the whole thing.

Not sure if I feel like going that ham to try and rebuild it. Instead, I'm more curious for those of you who also think we coudl get both this Tues, why you think it could happen.

I have nothing saying we "will" get both, I'd just like it to happen.

Partially, it's for selfish reasons, because hey, 2 characters at E3 is hype, and also hey, I'm kinda burnt out on speculation, so getting both at once would be great.


But at the same time, I know this community well, and knowing it, if we get a solo reveal at E3, then expect the next 3-4 months just being a constant "Well, Smash always ends on a letdown, prepare to be disappointed."

 

[Stratos]

I do not think that both DLC characters will appear in E3, only one.

 

[WahHahaha]

I do not think that both DLC characters will appear in E3, only one.

You're allowed to have that opinion even if it's incorrect and unrealistic.

Anything else to share?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

But at the same time, I know this community well, and knowing it, if we get a solo reveal at E3, then expect the next 3-4 months just being a constant "Well, Smash always ends on a letdown, prepare to be disappointed.

Then the character's actually pretty cool and people will try to downplay the **** out of it like "Oh wow Estelle Bright! Her Bo Staff attacks and her specials make her look really cool!" "NOOOO YOU CAN'T BE EXCITED THIS ISN'T AS BIG AS MASTER CHIEF AND YOU'D BE DISAPPOINTED IF IT WAS ANYONE OTHER THAN MASTER CHIEF!" "Haha tomboy bopping people on head with stick"

 

[Stratos]

You're allowed to have that opinion even if it's incorrect and unrealistic.

Anything else to share?

I do not think there is anything else.

 

[Shroob]

Then the character's actually pretty cool and people will try to downplay the **** out of it like "Oh wow Estelle Bright! Her Bo Staff attacks and her specials make her look really cool!" "NOOOO YOU CAN'T BE EXCITED THIS ISN'T AS BIG AS MASTER CHIEF AND YOU'D BE DISAPPOINTED IF IT WAS ANYONE OTHER THAN MASTER CHIEF!" "Haha tomboy bopping people on head with stick"

I think if any of the big front runners like Crash or Chief skip tomorrow, people aren't gonna be talking about them a whole hell of a lot anymore, since I think a good majority of the community consider those "e3' picks.


I want there to be 2 reveals, simply because waiting to September and knowing who they are will flat out be more enjoyable than waiting til September and being constantly reminded "SMASH ENDS ON A LOW NOTE".... but I'm bracing myself for a solo reveal tbh, something that Sakurai himself could inform us of today via a Tweet.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

I do not think that both DLC characters will appear in E3, only one.

I agree. With only two fighters left to be revealed, I doubt Nintendo would want to put all their eggs in one basket this time. With double reveals in past E3’s there’s always been more coming down the pipeline. Allegedly, the end of Fighter’s Pass Vol. 2 is it. Smash Ultimate will be done.

The only way I can see us getting a double reveal this time is if, there’s that rumored bonus character coming, and we get a soft reveal of CP11 ala Terry, to be revealed in full in some sort of Final Smash Direct along with that bonus character at the end. OR, if there’s a Fighter’s Pass Volume 3 in the works that we just don’t know about yet, but given what context we’ve gotten from Sakurai, this probably isn’t the case.

We will know in just a little over a day.

 

[SpectreJordan]

The Champions & Rayman, huh? Probably fake but I’d be down for that.

I had an idea a long time ago of the Champions being like Captain Commando from Marvel vs Capcom & Captain Ginyu from DBFZ. You would only control one of them (let’s say Mipha) for movement/jab/tilts but the other 3 would come out for specials & smashes.

So it wouldn’t really be a 4-in-1 character. Just a summon character.

 

[Shroob]

The best thing about the 1 vs 2 debate is it'll be over before it really begins.


Either Sakurai will tweet what to expect sometime today/shortly before the presentation, or they'll drop a "What you just saw" after the first Smash announcement.


If that happens, then yeah, it's probably a solo reveal.


If Sakurai doesn't tweet out, and they don't give us a "What you just saw" segment after the first Smash reveal? There'll be 2.

 

[SpectreJordan]

Then the character's actually pretty cool and people will try to downplay the **** out of it like "Oh wow Estelle Bright! Her Bo Staff attacks and her specials make her look really cool!" "NOOOO YOU CAN'T BE EXCITED THIS ISN'T AS BIG AS MASTER CHIEF AND YOU'D BE DISAPPOINTED IF IT WAS ANYONE OTHER THAN MASTER CHIEF!" "Haha tomboy bopping people on head with stick"

Damn, why you gotta call out Chief fans specifically? We’re pretty chill. :/

 

[Cosmic77]

In regards to the Champions, I think people are exaggerating how much Nintendo cares about promoting them all equally. They didn't seem to care that the poster child for ARMS and his female, pop star equivalent were passed over for noodle girl. They didn't throw a fit when the main protagonist of XC2 lost his Smash invite to the two waifus who are essentially his aides in battle. Honestly, you'd have an easier time finding examples of them not caring about being fair when promoting characters by importance in Smash.

There's not a whole lot supporting this, "They have to either add them all or add none of them" rule. No consistent patterns, no comment from Sakurai, nothing. People just seem to agree that it makes sense, and they accept it as if it were legitimately something holding the Champions back.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Damn, why you gotta call out Chief fans specifically? We’re pretty chill. :/

Bruh I'm a Chief fan. Still need to beat Halo 2 after a year of putting it on hold but still, I was mocking the type that thinks everyone will be massively disappointed if it's not Chief levels of hype when in reality most if not all Chief fans I've seen are some of the more openminded Smash fans

 

[Swamp Sensei]

What if the main fighter is just BotW Zelda and she summons the ghosts of the champions for her specials?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

What if the main fighter is just BotW Zelda and she summons the ghosts of the champions for her specials?

Half of Zelda fans will be happy Zelda got it's first unique character in 20 years and the first character in 13 years, the other half will be upset that it's a third playable Zelda

 

[Shroob]

In regards to the Champions, I think people are exaggerating how much Nintendo cares about promoting them all equally. They didn't seem to care that the poster child for ARMS and his female, pop star equivalent were passed over for noodle girl. They didn't throw a fit when the main protagonist of XC2 lost his Smash invite to the two waifus who are essentially his aides in battle. Honestly, you'd have an easier time finding examples of them not caring about being fair when promoting characters by importance in Smash.

There's not a whole lot supporting this, "They have to either add them all or add none of them" rule. No consistent patterns, no comment from Sakurai, nothing. People just seem to agree that it makes sense, and they accept it as if it were legitimately something holding the Champions back.

I'm not sure I understand this point fully tbh, because looking at the roster, I don't really 'see' a lot of characters that fit this criteria.


Min Min got in thanks in large part to fan favoritism and creator bias, and Sakurai made it obvious that Rex was considered, but the combo he had in mind would be too intensive for the hardware.


Like, there's echo fighters, but straight up, I'd say that most of the Echoes are decently important to their series, with really only Dark Samus and Daisy standing out.

There's Plant, but Plant is "Le funni random character."

There's the Melee clones, but even then, most of them feel pretty thought out.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Dark Samus

Dark Samus is very important to Metroid.

Being the main villain of a trilogy and the only recurring villain after the space pirates is pretty major.

 

[Shroob]

Dark Samus is very important to Metroid.

Being the main villain of a trilogy and the only recurring villain after the space pirates is pretty major.

Yeah, but it's also dead, right? We dunno if it'll come back for MP4(Which, would be weird if it didn't considering the name), so D.Sam may have been a 3 and done.

 

[Cosmic77]

I'm not sure I understand this point fully tbh, because looking at the roster, I don't really 'see' a lot of characters that fit this criteria.


Min Min got in thanks in large part to fan favoritism and creator bias, and Sakurai made it obvious that Rex was considered, but the combo he had in mind would be too intensive for the hardware.


Like, there's echo fighters, but straight up, I'd say that most of the Echoes are decently important to their series, with really only Dark Samus and Daisy standing out.

There's Plant, but Plant is "Le funni random character."

There's the Melee clones, but even then, most of them feel pretty thought out.

Point is, I feel like this rule could easily fall apart given how other characters came to be included despite popular beliefs holding them back in the eye of the Smash community.

Sakurai could literally shoot the whole thing down by simply saying, "I thought insert Champion would be cool, so that's who we added." Then people would say, "Well, they're just an exception to the rule," just like they did with Min Min when it was assumed that only the main characters or poster children were eligible.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Yeah, but it's also dead, right? We dunno if it'll come back for MP4(Which, would be weird if it didn't considering the name), so D.Sam may have been a 3 and done.

Does being dead diminish a character's importance?

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Yeah, but it's also dead, right? We dunno if it'll come back for MP4(Which, would be weird if it didn't considering the name), so D.Sam may have been a 3 and done.

Death is very much relative in the Metroid universe from what I’ve heard.

As for the four-in-one nature of the Champions, I’d say it‘s similar to the starter Pokémon argument and I think that Sakurai can pick the Champion he vibes with the most. They’re very much characters on their own with their own role in the story to be divorced from their collective group and not make it weird.

 

[Shroob]

Does being dead diminish a character's importance?

I guess, to me at least, I've never really felt the impact that the MP series has had on Metroid.... but that could also be because Metroid is a series which has like, teens number of games.

Point is, I feel like this rule could easily fall apart given how other characters came to be included despite popular beliefs holding them back in the eye of the Smash community.

Sakurai could literally shoot the whole thing down by simply saying, "I thought insert Champion would be cool, so that's who we added." Then people would say, "Well, they're just an exception to the rule," just like they did with Min Min when it was assumed that only the main characters or poster children were eligible.

But "Everyone is the main character of ARMs"