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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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Guybrush20X6

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I need some catch-up.

Where did Amy Rose, the BotW Champions and Rayman come from?
 

Cutie Gwen

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Does being dead diminish a character's importance?
Tbf Dark Samus is DEAD dead with no plans to bring her back, for a franchise without a revolving cast this is pretty significant, especially as Dark Samus would never have gotten in without the echo treatment
I need some catch-up.

Where did Amy Rose, the BotW Champions and Rayman come from?
epicmartin7's colour predictions and memes, typical Zelda discussions and Rayman fans being sad that their franchise has no future in sight
 

ForsakenM

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Everyone talks about the 4 Champions, but nobody is bringing up the possibility of Skull Kid.

Like, I get it, he's an AT...but we already know Spring Man's AT isn't what got Min Min to gut him out, and it's a base game addition much like Min Min's spirit.

With all this Zelda hyping going on, and how BotW 2 is rumored to be rather dark in tone, I'm surprised you folks haven't brought this up more often.
 

Hydreigonfan01

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I need some catch-up.

Where did Amy Rose, the BotW Champions and Rayman come from?
I just wanted to respond with that.
Everyone talks about the 4 Champions, but nobody is bringing up the possibility of Skull Kid.

Like, I get it, he's an AT...but we already know Spring Man's AT isn't what got Min Min to gut him out, and it's a base game addition much like Min Min's spirit.

With all this Zelda hyping going on, and how BotW 2 is rumored to be rather dark in tone, I'm surprised you folks haven't brought this up more often.
I think it's possible an AT could happen, I'm just not sure how likely it actually is, especially Skull Kid. Nintendo prefers first party characters to be on Switch titles, and Majora's Mask isn't on the Switch.
 
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ZelDan

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Death is very much relative in the Metroid universe from what I’ve heard.
Well, Ridley has died and been revived lord knows how many times now.

Kraid, Nightmare, the Queen Metroid, and Phantoon have each died once and been brought back to life to fight Samus again. (Well, Phantoon is supposed to be a ghost or phantom of some sort so that maybe doesn't count).

This maybe doesn't count as much or in the same way, but there's Adam who dies and then comes back as an AI in Fusion.

So yeah Dark Samus being brought back to life in some way in MP4 wouldn't really be outlandish at all.
 
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WeirdChillFever

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Everyone talks about the 4 Champions, but nobody is bringing up the possibility of Skull Kid.

Like, I get it, he's an AT...but we already know Spring Man's AT isn't what got Min Min to gut him out, and it's a base game addition much like Min Min's spirit.

With all this Zelda hyping going on, and how BotW 2 is rumored to be rather dark in tone, I'm surprised you folks haven't brought this up more often.
Skull Kid being in BoTW 2 is a pretty big if, outside of that it does depend on when the demand for Skull Kid for base game took off. A popular first party is certainly possible, but Skull Kid is not the only one and DLC support/“mindfulness” for a popular first party tends to cascade no further than Waluigi’s very specific WaPo-noticed demand and the conditional “If new Kirby or new DK, then Bandana Dee or Dixie”
 
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Shroob

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Everyone talks about the 4 Champions, but nobody is bringing up the possibility of Skull Kid.

Like, I get it, he's an AT...but we already know Spring Man's AT isn't what got Min Min to gut him out, and it's a base game addition much like Min Min's spirit.

With all this Zelda hyping going on, and how BotW 2 is rumored to be rather dark in tone, I'm surprised you folks haven't brought this up more often.
Because we have no idea if Skull Kid will even be in BotW2.


Like, the issue with discussing 1st party characters is, at least as of right now, it seems like Nintendo wants to only put in Switch-era characters. Yeah, this could change of course, but we don't know if Skull Kid will even be in BotW2, and he wasn't in BotW1.


It makes sense as to what Nintendo's doing, ARMs got a boost of like 300k sales after Min Min came out, and adding Switch-era characters helps Ultimate from feeling dated(We only had a whopping 2(3? I don't remember if Moray Towers was in Splatoon 1 or 2) Switch-era stages on launch, now we have 5, or 6 if you count Moray, which I don't remember if that's Splatoon 1 or 2, basically doubling that.


The big ? is if Nintendo will stop doing this and go for characters who aren't current-gen 1st parties, which, we dunno. Could be sure, but they seem to be focusing more on business and recency.
 

WeirdChillFever

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Because we have no idea if Skull Kid will even be in BotW2.


Like, the issue with discussing 1st party characters is, at least as of right now, it seems like Nintendo wants to only put in Switch-era characters. Yeah, this could change of course, but we don't know if Skull Kid will even be in BotW2, and he wasn't in BotW1.


It makes sense as to what Nintendo's doing, ARMs got a boost of like 300k sales after Min Min came out, and adding Switch-era characters helps Ultimate from feeling dated(We only had a whopping 2(3? I don't remember if Moray Towers was in Splatoon 1 or 2) Switch-era stages on launch, now we have 5, or 6 if you count Moray, which I don't remember if that's Splatoon 1 or 2, basically doubling that.


The big ? is if Nintendo will stop doing this and go for characters who aren't current-gen 1st parties, which, we dunno. Could be sure, but they seem to be focusing more on business and recency.
Moray Towers is a stage in both Splatoon 1 and Splatoon 2, although the cameo of Li’l Judd would put it more towards the Switch-incarnation of the stage
 

ForsakenM

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Well it's a good thing that Skull Kid doesn't NEED to be in BotW2 to be put in Smash.

He doesn't need a new game on Switch to get in, remember that this isn't a requirement.

Even if it was, Skyward Sword doesn't have to be the only Zelda remaster the Switch gets.
 

Cutie Gwen

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Everyone talks about the 4 Champions, but nobody is bringing up the possibility of Skull Kid.

With all this Zelda hyping going on, and how BotW 2 is rumored to be rather dark in tone, I'm surprised you folks haven't brought this up more often.
Well it's a good thing that Skull Kid doesn't NEED to be in BotW2 to be put in Smash.

He doesn't need a new game on Switch to get in, remember that this isn't a requirement.

Even if it was, Skyward Sword doesn't have to be the only Zelda remaster the Switch gets.
Not even 15 minutes apart lmao
 

ZelDan

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Everyone talks about the 4 Champions, but nobody is bringing up the possibility of Skull Kid.

Like, I get it, he's an AT...but we already know Spring Man's AT isn't what got Min Min to gut him out, and it's a base game addition much like Min Min's spirit.

With all this Zelda hyping going on, and how BotW 2 is rumored to be rather dark in tone, I'm surprised you folks haven't brought this up more often.
The issue with Skull Kid is, even if AT's are on the table (which I think they are), Skull Kid doesn't exactly have as much popularity/fan demand as other first party characters. Waluigi, Bandana Waddle Dee, Isaac and probably Dixie Kong all have him beat, whether from a general popularity perspective, smash ballot/smash fan demand perspective, or both.

I don't think relevance will really help him out either, when I Highly doubt him or Majora's Mask will be a part of BotW2's story (at most I could see maybe an easter egg of sorts for Majora's Mask). There was that Cadence of Hyrule expansion with Skull kid and Majora's mask, but I really don't believe they'd make a DLC pack for that game.

I really don't see a path for which Skull Kid gets in FP2 quite frankly.
 
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Shroob

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Well it's a good thing that Skull Kid doesn't NEED to be in BotW2 to be put in Smash.

He doesn't need a new game on Switch to get in, remember that this isn't a requirement.

Even if it was, Skyward Sword doesn't have to be the only Zelda remaster the Switch gets.
We know this isn't a requirement, and no one's saying it is.


We're saying, "We don't know what Nintendo will do."


Currently, they seem only interested in 1st party characters that are on their current gen platform. Will they continue that? We dunno, we literally cannot say one way or another.
 

ForsakenM

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We know this isn't a requirement, and no one's saying it is.


We're saying, "We don't know what Nintendo will do."


Currently, they seem only interested in 1st party characters that are on their current gen platform. Will they continue that? We dunno, we literally cannot say one way or another.
This reminds me that, I believe it was Imran Khan, mentioned the possibility of a mostly-1st party Pass 2. For that to be true, these last two would both have to be 1st party, and while they don't have them all they do have an overwhelming majority of their 1st party characters from their games already on Switch in Ultimate already. Gonna have to branch out eventually.

Additionally, don't rule out the idea of maybe getting another Isabelle reveal: essentially, teasing either a new game, only to be a Smash reveal, bait n double switch it's both. Could even switch it around and reveal a game first.
 

WeirdChillFever

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Well it's a good thing that Skull Kid doesn't NEED to be in BotW2 to be put in Smash.

He doesn't need a new game on Switch to get in, remember that this isn't a requirement.

Even if it was, Skyward Sword doesn't have to be the only Zelda remaster the Switch gets.
I think that the discussion around Skull Kid and other first party non-Switch populars follows the same principle as the discussion around the Champions: People love them, but they might be uneasy only repping one of them. Out of the ATs, Waluigi is seen as the best shot, and out of the popular first party clicque, people are still waiting for a tie-breaking game to pull one of them ahead to frontrunner status. Otherwise, Bandana Dee, Dixie Kong, Waluigi, Skull Kid (Might be missing some) all fall into the same boat and are all interchangeably discussed, which doesn’t help them stand out in speculation
 

Calamitas

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epicmartin7's colour predictions and memes, typical Zelda discussions and Rayman fans being sad that their franchise has no future in sight
So hold on, I've mostly been lurking recently. But what is the exact colour that he has come up with?

Well, Ridley has died and been revived lord knows how many times now.

Kraid, Nightmare, the Queen Metroid, and Phantoon have each died once and been brought back to life to fight Samus again. (Well, Phantoon is supposed to be a ghost or phantom of some sort so that maybe doesn't count).

This maybe doesn't count as much or in the same way, but there's Adam who dies and then comes back as an AI in Fusion.

So yeah Dark Samus being brought back to life in some way in MP4 wouldn't really be outlandish at all.
To be fair, the Metroid Queen isn't really an unique individual, and there could be others.
 

Cutie Gwen

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So hold on, I've mostly been lurking recently. But what is the exact colour that he has come up with?



To be fair, the Metroid Queen isn't really an unique individual, and there could be others.
He tries to predict what colours will be used as the background, he called green for Pythra and is calling pink and blueish green for the last two characters iirc
 

Shroob

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He tries to predict what colours will be used as the background, he called green for Pythra and is calling pink and blueish green for the last two characters iirc
He said he completely overhauled his colors, but he didn't post them today for some reason.
 

Mamboo07

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They could add a new Zelda rep to tie into the 35th anniversary and not specifically BotW2. But they probably wouldn't, and if they did it'd be "8-bit Peahat Joins the Fight" or something.
It would be just another Link clone or part of he Triforce yet again.

(Minda and Skull Kid who are popular already Assists, Champions were too late, Impa got Spirit deconfirmed)
 

Iko MattOrr

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I think that the discussion around Skull Kid and other first party non-Switch populars follows the same principle as the discussion around the Champions: People love them, but they might be uneasy only repping one of them. Out of the ATs, Waluigi is seen as the best shot, and out of the popular first party clicque, people are still waiting for a tie-breaking game to pull one of them ahead to frontrunner status. Otherwise, Bandana Dee, Dixie Kong, Waluigi, Skull Kid (Might be missing some) all fall into the same boat and are all interchangeably discussed, which doesn’t help them stand out in speculation
I don't like that mindset at all. Those few characters aren't the only options for their respective franchises, and this happend in the past.
People were expecting Waluigi, they got Piranha Plant; what's stopping them to put Cranky Kong instead of Dixie as the next DK rep?* Or Funky Kong as a DK echo/semiclone? Stuff like that happend already, it wouldn't be a surprise... with this "next in line" argument people are gatekeeping a lot of characters, especially in series like Kirby where there are multiple ones who have been recurring or had major roles in more than one game already, and the series introduces new character almost each new main game, so we could potentially even get the new character from the new game to shill it a la Fire Emblem.

For Star Fox we got the main character, the main antagonist (excluding Andross for obvious reasons), one member of the crew (Falco), and... next in line should be Peppy or Slippy, but we know that if they ever add another Star Fox character, there's a big chance it's gonna be Krystal, the side character who got a spot in a couple of games and then was neglected by Nintendo as if she never existed. I mean, she's an assist trophy already, and one of the advanced ones with a small moveset, Peppy and Slippy are cameos at best.
This is just an example to say that character selection is not as simple as "he/she's next in line", else Toad would have been in Smash since Melee, or Tom Nook would have been in place of Isabelle.

*(Cranky was introduced before Dixie and has been a main stay in the series since then; he's the first character you see when you turn the original DKC game on, and it's implied to be the original DK from the arcade game)
 

Momotsuki

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"Smash cut" is a very real term. Imran used it appropriately and also seems to like trolling. I wouldn't read much into this. That said, I wouldn't mind Mipha or Urbosa...
 
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WeirdChillFever

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I don't like that mindset at all. Those few characters aren't the only options for their respective franchises, and this happend in the past.
People were expecting Waluigi, they got Piranha Plant; what's stopping them to put Cranky Kong instead of Dixie as the next DK rep?* Or Funky Kong as a DK echo/semiclone? Stuff like that happend already, it wouldn't be a surprise... with this "next in line" argument people are gatekeeping a lot of characters, especially in series like Kirby where there are multiple ones who have been recurring or had major roles in more than one game already, and the series introduces new character almost each new main game, so we could potentially even get the new character from the new game to shill it a la Fire Emblem.

For Star Fox we got the main character, the main antagonist (excluding Andross for obvious reasons), one member of the crew (Falco), and... next in line should be Peppy or Slippy, but we know that if they ever add another Star Fox character, there's a big chance it's gonna be Krystal, the side character who got a spot in a couple of games and then was neglected by Nintendo as if she never existed. I mean, she's an assist trophy already, and one of the advanced ones with a small moveset, Peppy and Slippy are cameos at best.
This is just an example to say that character selection is not as simple as "he/she's next in line", else Toad would have been in Smash since Melee, or Tom Nook would have been in place of Isabelle.

*(Cranky was introduced before Dixie and has been a main stay in the series since then; he's the first character you see when you turn the original DKC game on, and it's implied to be the original DK from the arcade game)
Mmh, my post wasn’t about “these characters are next in line”, but rather about how these characters all have an exceedingly passionate support base. The thing you talk about is something different but is a valid point nonetheless. It can overlap (Dixie is the most requested from the DK series now, same with Bandana Dee.) but it doesn’t have to be the case (I’d argue Impa fits the mold of “next-in-line” more, whereas Skull Kid is the one with the big supoort base, Waluigi has the outcry but someone like Toad or Paper Mario is seen as a more logical next)

I’d love to discuss individual cases you brought up some other time and my view on them, but my post was about passionate base game first party fanbases whose popularity and requests is their biggest strength as suppose to the new age “broad hype appeal third party” vs “shill first party“ divide that has occured over the DLC.
 
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Iko MattOrr

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Mmh, my post wasn’t about “these characters are next in line”, but rather about how these characters all have an exceedingly passionate support base. The thing you talk about is something different but is a valid point nonetheless. It can overlap (Dixie is the most requested from the DK series now, same with Bandana Dee.) but it doesn’t have to be the case (I’d argue Impa fits the mold of “next-in-line” more, whereas Skull Kid is the one with the big supoort base, Waluigi has the outcry but someone like Toad or Paper Mario is seen as a more logical next)

I’d love to discuss individual cases you brought up some other time and my view on them, but my post was about passionate base game first party fanbases whose popularity and requests is their biggest strength as suppose to the new age “broad hype appeal third party” vs “shill first party“ divide that has occured over the DLC.
I understand; my post wasn't specifically referred to you, but since you mentioned that type of reasoning as a part of your argument (even though it's not your point of view specifically), I quoted it as a reference. (probably that one was not the best post to quote though, my bad).
 
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Opossum

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I don't like that mindset at all. Those few characters aren't the only options for their respective franchises, and this happend in the past.
People were expecting Waluigi, they got Piranha Plant; what's stopping them to put Cranky Kong instead of Dixie as the next DK rep?* Or Funky Kong as a DK echo/semiclone? Stuff like that happend already, it wouldn't be a surprise... with this "next in line" argument people are gatekeeping a lot of characters, especially in series like Kirby where there are multiple ones who have been recurring or had major roles in more than one game already, and the series introduces new character almost each new main game, so we could potentially even get the new character from the new game to shill it a la Fire Emblem.

For Star Fox we got the main character, the main antagonist (excluding Andross for obvious reasons), one member of the crew (Falco), and... next in line should be Peppy or Slippy, but we know that if they ever add another Star Fox character, there's a big chance it's gonna be Krystal, the side character who got a spot in a couple of games and then was neglected by Nintendo as if she never existed. I mean, she's an assist trophy already, and one of the advanced ones with a small moveset, Peppy and Slippy are cameos at best.
This is just an example to say that character selection is not as simple as "he/she's next in line", else Toad would have been in Smash since Melee, or Tom Nook would have been in place of Isabelle.

*(Cranky was introduced before Dixie and has been a main stay in the series since then; he's the first character you see when you turn the original DKC game on, and it's implied to be the original DK from the arcade game)
As for the idea of potentially getting an as-of-now unrevealed character among the last two fighters...that would be absolutely unprecedented. People like to point to Byleth, but like... we'd known about Byleth since their brief appearance in the first Three Houses trailer at E3 2018, their game released in July 2019, and their Smash reveal and release was January 2021. That's still a full year and a half from when we first saw Byleth, to their Smash reveal.

To put it even further into perspective, the shortest time a character has had between official reveal and Smash reveal was Greninja. Greninja was not shown during X and Y's prerelease cycle, so its unveiling, barring leaks, happened in October 2013, and their Smash trailer was April 2014, just six months later.

Even the character with the shortest time of existence prior to their reveal had half a year to exist. Considering how little time is left for the second pass, especially since it'll likely end quite a bit before the end of 2021, I'm confident in saying the final two characters are ones we absolutely know exist by now.
 

CannonStreak

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At the least, let the Final Hours track appear at around the 1-2 hours left mark. Hearing the Final Hours track around 12 hours before the Direct sounds weird to me.
I understand. Thing is, I was counting the day itself, not the day plus the additional hours before the Direct, if you know what I mean.
 

DanganZilla5

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I just had a Crash in Smash dream last night. His reveal was not subtle at all. They showed the Smash symbol and then immediately showed N. Sanity Beach with the Crash 1 theme playing. The camera just kind of scrolled through the island until Crash appeared onscreen. Unfortunately it ended right there but I was still hyped. To think that this may be reality in just over 24 hours
 

Groose

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As for the idea of potentially getting an as-of-now unrevealed character among the last two fighters...that would be absolutely unprecedented. People like to point to Byleth, but like... we'd known about Byleth since their brief appearance in the first Three Houses trailer at E3 2018, their game released in July 2019, and their Smash reveal and release was January 2021. That's still a full year and a half from when we first saw Byleth, to their Smash reveal.

To put it even further into perspective, the shortest time a character has had between official reveal and Smash reveal was Greninja. Greninja was not shown during X and Y's prerelease cycle, so its unveiling, barring leaks, happened in October 2013, and their Smash trailer was April 2014, just six months later.

Even the character with the shortest time of existence prior to their reveal had half a year to exist. Considering how little time is left for the second pass, especially since it'll likely end quite a bit before the end of 2021, I'm confident in saying the final two characters are ones we absolutely know exist by now.
I do think it’s worth bringing up Corrin in this scenario. When Corrin was revealed, their game had been out for a few months in Japan but was still ~3 months out from release in NA and half a year out from launch in Europe.

Because of COVID specifically, I could see (but do not expect) us getting an unreleased character as the final DLC. Considering Greninja/Corrin/Byleth, it’s clear that sometimes they work on characters before their games release. I could see a scenario where they selected a character from a game yet to release only to have said game slapped with delay after delay due to COVID. Said character might be pushed to the end of the pass but would need to come out before the release of their native game.

Illustrated Hypothetical:
Nintendo is working on a new 3D Mario game with a sidekick character akin to Yoshi. The game was slated to come out at the beginning of this year but got pushed down the pipeline. They had planned for the new sidekick to get into Smash as the fourth or fifth character, but they had to push them back because they haven’t even been revealed yet. The game gets revealed at E3 with a holiday launch date, and the character is revealed and released for Smash in the fall.

…again, don’t think this is likely and a new BotW2 character would probably be the most likely case if it were true. But I could see it happening.
 

Gengar84

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I personally think the Battletoads are being slept on as potential characters. Microsoft has been pushing them more recently from Rash’s cameo in Killer Instinct to the reboot and even featured Rash in one of their recent social media posts along with Master Chief, Wolfenstein characters, and other Microsoft all stars. I think they make a ton of sense as a retro rep and have a lot more history with Nintendo than Chief.

I also see a lot more support for Conker but I feel he doesn’t offer as much or represent RARE’s history as well as the toads. Conker was just another 3D platformer for the N64 so he doesn’t really offer much that Banjo doesn’t already have covered. The Battletoads represent both the NES and SNES eras of the company. Conker would also lose a lot of his appeal if he had to be toned down for Smash.

Battletoads was RARE’s first breakout hit. That company went on to become a huge part of Nintendo during the SNES and N64 days and gave those consoles many of their best games. Nintendo and Microsoft also have a great relationship and have hinted at something with Nintendo. I agree Chief is probably more likely but I think the Toads also have a realistic shot.
 
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