Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[epicmartin7]

Is Pink no longer a stink?

I dunno. I'm currently trying to calculate past characters blind so I know what the look for and fine tune stuff. I'm currently up to Banjo rn.

 

[N3ON]

Is Pink no longer a stink?

C'mon with this

 

[volbound1700]

I think the issue with Western IP vs Eastern/Japan IP mostly come down to the way characters and...Well, "branding" is created. It's not uncommon for a Japanese studio to stick with an IP for years/Decade, managing to create a base and "brand power" not only throught the games, but throught their characters.

I'm going to take the exemple of Final Fantasy or even Tales of as they have this peculiar case of not even keeping the same cast between games, yet all of their protagonists enjoy a "similar popularity" between each others, beside some big outliner (Cloud/Noctis/Lightning for FF and Yuri/Llyod/Sorey for Tales of)

When one of their game release, or start marketing you can see that Final Fantasy and Tales of build their brand toward their characters, even before the stories. Whenever it's figures, merch, crossovers in mobile games or other games, novel, anime tons of stuff around the characters which help to see them recognizable, even to a more broad appeal audience, not only around the game release, but for years, once the game is release, those characters doesn't just "suddenly disappear" until their next game. Square-Enix and Bandai Namco keep them in people's mind with all of those things, they want you to remember them and it usually work pretty well.

And this is a complete 180 with how Western IP work for most cases. Most of the time, Western IP or Characters enjoy an appearance or two, with heavy marketing, almost holywood like before ending up dormant, their own company not talking about them, the devs and marketing focused on something else, before going back to them a few years later, with usually very mixed results.

And I think this is why the Japan vs Western IP stuff is problematic, and usually why...For lack of a better term, most, if not all of the most recognizable characters in the world are Japanese and why Nintendo is absurdely good at this.
Mario? Link? Pikachu? They're here and won't go. Nintendo Create IP, but make sure you always remember a way or another their characters, Microsoft does the same with Master Chief for exemple.

Rayman? Gordon Freeman? Doomguy? Crash?
No one can argue against their star powers...However, their presence throught the collectiveness and lasting impact is where it's hard, because their devs usually write a page for them, and instead of turning it, just ****ing close the book to write a new one, before taking it and opening it up again a few years later remembering that they didn't finish it.

I think a lot of the talent from the United States was based in PC gaming and with audiences that generally do not play console games.

I will say this about Western IP, some of the games with the greatest longevity have been Western Titles. Take Diablo 2, it came out in 1999 but has a large following until this very day. Blizzard just announced a remastered version of the game.

Iconic Western Franchises have mostly emerged on PC and not home consoles: Doom, Wolfenstein, Duke Nukem, Age of Empires, Civilization, Diablo, Starcraft, Warcraft, the Sims, Sim City, Command and Conquer, Elder Scrolls, Worms, Total War, etc.

Steam is one of the most active Video Game Website/Channels out there and it is primarily populated by Western IP.

Keep in mind that after Atari went defunked, the West did not truly have a console competitor until Microsoft.

You take the big American Video Game Companies (I know many are bought up now but let me give their original name): Blizzard, Activision, Bethesda, Creative Assembly, ID Software, Maxis, EA, etc. They all got their start on PC before console systems. Some did spread quickly to consoles but they got their start on PC.

 

[Nekoo]

I think a lot of the talent from the United States was based in PC gaming and with audiences that generally do not play console games.

I will say this about Western IP, some of the games with the greatest longevity have been Western Titles. Take Diablo 2, it came out in 1999 but has a large following until this very day. Blizzard just announced a remastered version of the game.

Iconic Western Franchises have mostly emerged on PC and not home consoles: Doom, Wolfenstein, Duke Nukem, Age of Empires, Civilization, Diablo, Starcraft, Warcraft, the Sims, Sim City, Command and Conquer, Elder Scrolls, Worms, Total War, etc.

Steam is one of the most active Video Game Website/Channels out there and it is primarily populated by Western IP.

Keep in mind that after Atari went defunked, the West did not truly have a console competitor until Microsoft.

That's the thing. I'm not talking about IP here but character themselves, I took in exemple Tales of and Final Fantasy because they're Series with a constant rotating cast, but their protagonists are still in constant activity somewhere, somehow, making sure no one forget them.

 

[RouffWestie]

Oh yeah, that is a question I want to ask

Which game do you think has the better crossovers? Smash Ultimate or Fortnite?

C.) Practically every mobile gacha game.
Typically you can build a team consisting of Goku, Hello Kitty, Batman, and Darth Vader (Featuring Dante from the Devil May Cry Series)

 

[volbound1700]

That's the thing. I'm not talking about IP here but character themselves, I took in exemple Tales of and Final Fantasy because they're Series with a constant rotating cast, but their protagonists are still in constant activity somewhere, somehow, making sure no one forget them.

True. Western Games also try to build up 4th party characters. Mickey Mouse, Bugs Bunny, Star Wars, Marvel, TMNT, DC Comics, etc. have all had plenty of video games based on their content traditionally made by Western Companies. Interesting tidbit, the original Doom almost based on the Alien series. Fox came back and offered them the IP and the Doom team decided to stick with the original concept of fighting demons.

 

[Pillow]

Oh yeah, that is a question I want to ask

Which game do you think has the better crossovers? Smash Ultimate or Fortnite?

The thing about Fornite crossovers is, as far as I understand, they’re pretty much just character skins. While their actual repertoire is impressive, the characters don’t really bring the same soul and heart that characters that come to Smash have as they don’t have lines or bring anything from their base game other than the surface appearance. So yeah I’d say Smash wins here.

 

[SKX31]

Not to mention, if you count the characters developed by Rare, we'd actually have more british characters than american ones.

EU: The 2nd most represented region in Smash by country of origin.

Now that could be an amazing Jeopardy question no matter what the "answer" is.

(Oh **** if LoL or any American character is CP10/11 - especially LoL - I don't think anyone here would be ready for the ensuing "NA vs. EU" debates that would never end.)

In terms of time between release, now is one of the longer periods:

Joker to Hero: 104 Days
Hero to Banjo: 36 Days
Banjo to Terry: 63 Days
Terry to Byleth: 83 Days
Average: Roughly 72 Days

Min Min to Steve: 106 Days
Steve to Sephiroth: 68 Days (63 if you count the Challenge Mode release)
Sephiroth to Pyra/Mythra: 65 Days (60 going off the Challenge Mode release)
Average: 80 Days (or 76 accounting for Challenge Mode)

If Nintendo released fighter 10 a few days after their E3 presentation, it would be roughly 104-106 days since Pyra/Mythra; definitely stretching it to the limits of what we've seen.

Kinda think that one reason why the wait hasn't felt like 3 months+ (IMHO) is that Pyra / Mythra have been talked about a lot - and not just brought up by competitive people. It felt somewhat akin to Joker, when the period after his release a lot of people talked about him. Min Min did not recieve the same kind of luxury and thus the wait between her and Steve felt longer than Joker-Hero and Pyra/Mythra-CP10, but that was partly due to a playstyle that did not interest a lot of people - and that affected the general conversation - and her reveal being a tad undermined by the ARMS guessing game.

Is Pink no longer a stink?

C'mon with this

Bottom Text.
​

 

[N3ON]

Keep in mind that after Atari went defunked, the West did not truly have a console competitor until Microsoft.

You can never truly be defunked if you still have the rhythm going round.

 

[Shroob]

You can never truly be defunked if you still have the rhythm going round.

But I thought that video killed the radio star?

 

[GoodGrief741]

A bit of a tangent, here, and off of a long-outdated conversation topic at that, but I played the demo of Immortals: Fenyx Rising, 'cause I got it for my birthday a couple months ago.

...Yeah, I'm glad I didn't actually open the box. I really didn't enjoy my time with the game. And I spent, like, two hours in it and got up to a boss whom I presume was the end of the demo, so I think I gave it a fair shake.

This was actually my first time with a Breath of the Wild-like game - actually, my first time with an open-world game in general - and... I'll be honest, I was super disappointed. I climbed on top of stuff I had the urge to like I thought you were supposed to in this sort of game, but there was always either nothing at the top or something not very interesting at the top like... Ambrosia, I think. So that was kind of demoralizing.

Honestly, the biggest impact it had on me is making me think I wouldn't like various games of a similar nature. Like, I wasn't sure about Breath of the Wild already, but after I:FR, like... I don't know, I can only assume I'll be super not-into-it in the same way.

You are supposed to play it that way and the game is supposed to reward you for it. It's just that that particular game was made by Ubisoft, the masters of world design with not much depth. Breath of the Wild does what you say and it does it well, so I'd recommend you give it a shot if you crave that experience.

 

[Icedragonadam]

With E3 being a week away, I started to remember the infamous 2015 E3 direct aka the direct that single handily killed amiibo with one game. Sure it was the last E3 direct Iwata was involved with, but you got to give it props for one thing, it was the direct that helped improve future directs. Primarily the fact that they don't spend 10 minutes on one game anymore(looking at you Yoshi's Woolly World) having the games shown in a rapid fire style.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

I just realized something
By looks alone, and by both being canonically Chinese, and by their fighting styles to a small extent, Min Min and Chun-Li feel similar to an extent.
Not that that bothers me, but I thought it was just worth pointing out.

 

[Technomage]

I just realized something
By looks alone, and by both being canonically Chinese, and by their fighting styles to a small extent, Min Min and Chun-Li feel similar to an extent.
Not that that bothers me, but I thought it was just worth pointing out.

True, though Chunners doesn't have the stretchy arms; plus she uses way more kicks. You're still right, though.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

With E3 being a week away, I started to remember the infamous 2015 E3 direct. Sure it was the last E3 direct Iwata was involved with, but you got to give it props for one thing, it was the direct that helped improve future directs. Primarily the fact that they don't spend 10 minutes on one game anymore(looking at you Yoshi's Woolly World) having the games shown in a rapid fire style.

Its interesting looking at the strengths of the presentation in that, because in terms of the actual games/content the 2015 event encapsulates what in hindsight to me was the nadir period of Nintendo.

Spin-offs that nobody wanted, major franchises either in hibernation or without much momentum, and an overall sense that the company had completely lost touch with the broader game audience. Its telling that Fire Emblem Fates (for all the grief that game gets) was the few titles in that E3 that went on to have strong critical or commercial success, and the various others either being quickly forgotten or seen as lowpoints for the series (Amiibo Festival & Federation Force especially).

I know people will point to the infamous 2008 Wii Music E3 as worse, but at least that was Nintendo logically (albeit wrong headedly) following up on the casual commercial boom created by Wii Sports and such. 2015 was a showcase for titles that appealed to neither the hardcore nor casual audience; just a hypothetical customer base they believed would be satisfied with gimmicky titles lacking much substance. Even the 2016 presentation which basically was "BotW... and other stuff" still felt like it had more appeal at points.

 

[N3ON]

But I thought that video killed the radio star?

i fix

refunked

 

[DuskFleur]

I just realized something
By looks alone, and by both being canonically Chinese, and by their fighting styles to a small extent, Min Min and Chun-Li feel similar to an extent.
Not that that bothers me, but I thought it was just worth pointing out.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the devs took inspiration from Chun Li when making Min Min’s kick attacks. In fact, didn’t Sakurai say exactly that in her presentation, iirc?

 

[ahemtoday]

You are supposed to play it that way and the game is supposed to reward you for it. It's just that that particular game was made by Ubisoft, the masters of world design with not much depth. Breath of the Wild does what you say and it does it well, so I'd recommend you give it a shot if you crave that experience.

Well, that's reassuring. I still have my doubts about BotW, but it's good to know that I:FR hasn't made it go the way of, like... Hades for me.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

I wouldn’t be surprised if the devs took inspiration from Chun Li when making Min Min’s kick attacks. In fact, didn’t Sakurai say exactly that in her presentation, iirc?

Wait for real?
Brb

 

[Shroob]

Wait for real?
Brb

I don't remember him saying that irt Min Min, but iirc, Zangief was alluded to when talking about Incineroar.

 

[SharkLord]

A bit of a tangent, here, and off of a long-outdated conversation topic at that, but I played the demo of Immortals: Fenyx Rising, 'cause I got it for my birthday a couple months ago.

...Yeah, I'm glad I didn't actually open the box. I really didn't enjoy my time with the game. And I spent, like, two hours in it and got up to a boss whom I presume was the end of the demo, so I think I gave it a fair shake.

This was actually my first time with a Breath of the Wild-like game - actually, my first time with an open-world game in general - and... I'll be honest, I was super disappointed. I climbed on top of stuff I had the urge to like I thought you were supposed to in this sort of game, but there was always either nothing at the top or something not very interesting at the top like... Ambrosia, I think. So that was kind of demoralizing.

Honestly, the biggest impact it had on me is making me think I wouldn't like various games of a similar nature. Like, I wasn't sure about Breath of the Wild already, but after I:FR, like... I don't know, I can only assume I'll be super not-into-it in the same way.

You are supposed to play it that way and the game is supposed to reward you for it. It's just that that particular game was made by Ubisoft, the masters of world design with not much depth. Breath of the Wild does what you say and it does it well, so I'd recommend you give it a shot if you crave that experience.

Exploration is one of the quickest ways to draw me in, but at the same time the only game I could really call open-world/Wild-like to a degree is XCDE, so I'm just sitting here taking notes whenever this comes up. Most of the exploration-focused games I've actually played are stuff like Bloodstained, Hollow Knight, and Ys VIII, where it's decently open but a bit smaller and given some degree of direction via metroidvania-style progression.

Also the fact that filling out the map creates dopamine and I dunno if the wide-open games have that aspect

 

[Guynamednelson]

I don't remember him saying that irt Min Min, but iirc, Zangief was alluded to when talking about Incineroar.

He called Darkest Lariat a "red cyclone", Zangief's nickname.

 

[Geno Boost]

here is a question if there is a DLC newcomer you dont want to happen and hate it will you still buy it anyway if it happens?

 

[Shroob]

here is a question if there is a DLC newcomer you dont want to happen and hate it will you still buy it anyway if it happens?

I already bought the pass/10


Unlike a lot of people, I really don't care who gets in, so if it's a character I actively dislike, "Eh".

 

[GilTheGreat19]

here is a question if there is a DLC newcomer you dont want to happen and hate it will you still buy it anyway if it happens?

I bought and both passes.

I'm fine with that, gimme new content baby

 

[Nekoo]

here is a question if there is a DLC newcomer you dont want to happen and hate it will you still buy it anyway if it happens?

I'm not petty enough to be like "URGH I HATE THIS CHARACTER" beside a Pokémon. I got the fighter pass, I'll enjoy the character just like another. If it's someone I love, I'll main them, if not, I'll use them in freeplay

 

[Speed Weed]

The thing about Fornite crossovers is, as far as I understand, they’re pretty much just character skins. While their actual repertoire is impressive, the characters don’t really bring the same soul and heart that characters that come to Smash have as they don’t have lines or bring anything from their base game other than the surface appearance. So yeah I’d say Smash wins here.

But Ryu can't floss in Smash Bros, now can he

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

here is a question if there is a DLC newcomer you dont want to happen and hate it will you still buy it anyway if it happens?

I already purchased the pass so I don't have much of a choice on that front. But even if I didn't, I'd probably still buy my least-wanted character anyway just because I want everyone on the roster.

 

[N3ON]

here is a question if there is a DLC newcomer you dont want to happen and hate it will you still buy it anyway if it happens?

If I don't like the character I usually still buy the pack to get the stage. But I do buy them piecemeal in case there's a character I really don't want.

I also wouldn't have downloaded PP if that transaction involved money.

 

[Noipoi]

here is a question if there is a DLC newcomer you dont want to happen and hate it will you still buy it anyway if it happens?

There’s no one I’d really hate. Just characters I’d be not really into.


But they have my ****in money anyways, so my opinion is invalid

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

here is a question if there is a DLC newcomer you dont want to happen and hate it will you still buy it anyway if it happens?

I already bought the pass, I'm locked into the contract

Fr though, I've been planning to get every character regardless. It feels weird not having a complete roster.

 

[Dr. Jojo Phantasma]

here is a question if there is a DLC newcomer you dont want to happen and hate it will you still buy it anyway if it happens?

Even for characters I am meh about like Lloyd, I will still buy them anyway as Smash is one game I care about having a complete roster.

 

[Strong-Arm]

Watch Medusa get in finally

 

[Noipoi]

Watch Medusa get in finally

About time we get some Miitopia representation.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Also, I realized yet another thing:

If we get a BOTW2 character OR Sylux from Metriod, BOTW2/MP4 might come out later this year for sure.

 

[Technomage]

here is a question if there is a DLC newcomer you dont want to happen and hate it will you still buy it anyway if it happens?

Well, I already bought the whole Fighters Pass; thus, I won't have a choice, no matter who it might be.

 

[Fluttershy64]

With E3 being a week away, I started to remember the infamous 2015 E3 direct aka the direct that single handily killed amiibo with one game. Sure it was the last E3 direct Iwata was involved with, but you got to give it props for one thing, it was the direct that helped improve future directs. Primarily the fact that they don't spend 10 minutes on one game anymore(looking at you Yoshi's Woolly World) having the games shown in a rapid fire style.

I remember watching that presentation was so board when the creators of the game just went on and on about why they created this game. What they should have done was show off the trailer maybe talk a bit about the game and then have a little announcement that said "Want to learn more about X game? Look for a new video about the BTS of X game!"

 

[N3ON]

Also, I realized yet another thing:

If we get a BOTW2 character OR Sylux from Metriod, BOTW2/MP4 might come out later this year for sure.

These are characters that were chosen two, two and a half years ago. Even without an intervening pandemic, the release window for those games was probably very rough and unfixed at the time. Wasn't the pass chosen around the same time MP4 completely restarted development? And BotW2 has likely already been delayed internally once or twice.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

These are characters that were chosen two, two and a half years ago. Even without an intervening pandemic, the release window for those games was probably very rough and unfixed at the time. Wasn't the pass chosen around the same time MP4 completely restarted development? And BotW2 has likely already been delayed internally once or twice.

Right, nvm

gg boys.

Highly doubt Sakurai has an early copy of either game, too.

 

[GoodGrief741]

here is a question if there is a DLC newcomer you dont want to happen and hate it will you still buy it anyway if it happens?

No.

Source: only bought 3 of the FP2 fighters.