Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[volbound1700]

The closest competitor and perhaps only real competitor to Smash Ultimate was Sony Playstations All-Star Battles Royale.

It failed for various reasons (low budget, odd fighting style that really wasn't very well done, poor timing, etc.). It could have been successful if done right.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Slightly off-topic, but wasn't that game's name changed due to another party threatening to sue Ubisoft?

Monster Energy Drink iirc

Probably the dumbest lawsuit ever considering there's no possibility of confusion but that just goes to show how little Ubi cared about that game.

Playstaion
All stars doesn't exist, i guess?

Yes. More of that.

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

It be a weird twist since I Imagine that the presence of Metal Gear Rex is gonna make people think we getting another Metal Gear character.

I guess if they really focus on Sonic dodging attacks, people might suspect it's something Sonic related, but in any case I think this would be a good Smash trailer, since you have the characters interacting with each other in trying to stop Metal Gear Rex, and you don't exactly know from the start who the trailer is for, Which is kind of a sticking point for why certain trailers (Byleth, Min Min, Pyra/Mythra) aren't considered as hype

To be honest though, I actually think Shadow's Trailer would be something based on BOTH Galeem and Dharkon. they are the big threats of World of Light, and we haven't seen a trailer where they both in it. The whole thing about Sonic Adventure 2, and by extension Sonic and Shadow is that they are both Light and Dark Parallels to each other, which contrasts with Galeem and Dharkon. Plus there could be a reference to Sonic showing up late to stop Tabuu's Off Wave, by Shadow Showing up to stop whatever Super Move Galeem and Dharkon do (especially if Sonic tries the same thing, but fails in the trailer

Well yeah, that's what I was kinda goin for.

The only other thing I could think of is IF the last two are INDEED "Shadow and Waluigi", I imagine that may well come in a Kencineroar type trailer where they just give up the ghost and go "yeah the last two are upgraded assists, here they are". I have no idea how a trailer like that would go, but that's my guess as to how they'd do it.

 

[kirbsmash]

Sony Playstations All-Star Battles Royale

I love how Sackboy plays, plus, Parappa.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Oh yeah, that is a question I want to ask

Which game do you think has the better crossovers? Smash Ultimate or Fortnite?

Smash Ultimate. A crossover without any theming or defined boundaries isn't exciting to me, it just becomes a gathering of whatever IP the dev could scrounge up.

Also Fortnite is like the most 7/10 game ever so there's that as well.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Smash is better looking at video game characters alone, imo

Fortnite is better looking at general character crossovers.

It's tough, though, I wanna say Smash since that's been around for over 20 years, and has established what I feel is a bigger legacy than Fortnite.

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

The closest competitor and perhaps only real competitor to Smash Ultimate was Sony Playstations All-Star Battles Royale.

Hey man, don't sell Cartoon All-Stars to the Rescue short haha

You had Winnie the Pooh, Ninja Turtles, Chipmunks, Ghostbusters AND Garfield

They teamed up to fight drugs. Don't do drugs, kids. Drugs r bad.

 

[volbound1700]

I love how Sackboy plays, plus, Parappa.

From what I gather, it was the fact that you beat up characters to raise your meter and do a special move. I had the game on my PS3 and enjoyed it but a lot of people were turned off by that style. They would have preferred that you actually had a hit meter to knock the character off screen or just hit meter like normal fighter games.

The original design of PSABR did play a lot like Smash but they wanted to distinguish it from Smash and came up with this new system. However, this new system was not well received overall because the fighting moves seemed pointless and everything just revolved around power meter and final smash.

 

[N3ON]

My expectations for Rayman have remained quite low ever since learning about his very minor visibility in Japan, even with his western demand. Though I will maintain it peaked around the Rayman leak, six years ago - not during Ultimate's tenure.

I know people seem to classify lopsided prevalence as a "fanrule", treating it like the logic is "won't happen because it hasn't happened yet", but in reality it's a case where it can and does happen, it's just that, with them avoiding exclusionary characters being on record, it's going to require a character so monumental that forgoing a region is seen as warranted. Given they still have characters with dual appeal at their disposal wherein they need not alienate a region, those exceptions are going to have to be pretty, well, exceptional, and I think most of these suggestions, such as Rayman, fall short.

So far, it's really only been Hero. And Dragon Quest is an institution in Japan. Rayman is popular in the west, but an institution he is not. I don't think he meets where the bar for entry on lopsided additions currently is. Though tbf, I think very few characters do; it's nothing against Rayman specifically.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

At the very least Rayman feels a bit like a base game character whose placement in a market release version of Smash would greatly reduce any regional risk in his inclusion.

 

[volbound1700]

Hey man, don't sell Cartoon All-Stars to the Rescue short haha
View attachment 318313

You had Winnie the Pooh, Ninja Turtles, Chipmunks, Ghostbusters AND Garfield

They teamed up to fight drugs. Don't do drugs, kids. Drugs r bad.

Kind of off-topic but I think any attempt to make an American All-Star Gaming series like Smash would eventually end up having 4th party characters from franchises like Marvel, TMNT, and Star Wars. Those characters are just too popular in the United States to be left out.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Honestly,
I wouldn't be surprised if playable character negotiations failed through with Ubisoft because Ubisoft themselves could have said "We'd like for you to add Rayman" while Nintendo would have preferred someone like, say, Ezio from Assassin's Creed.

Vice versa could have happened, too. Perhaps Ubisoft really doesn't care for Rayman and his series anyone as much as their other IPs, while Nintendo still recognizes its potential.

 

[3BitSaurus]

It is kinda crazy that the US, who is probably alongside Japan as the region with the most original VG IP output, has one character that was made in that region… Dark Samus…

Not to mention, if you count the characters developed by Rare, we'd actually have more british characters than american ones.

Oh yeah, that is a question I want to ask

Which game do you think has the better crossovers? Smash Ultimate or Fortnite?

Smash. It's not even a contest for me, I genuinely don't care for most of the crossovers Fortnite does, and even if I did I still couldn't be bothered to play that.

It goes beyond being an ambitious crossover and having a great cast: games like Smash an MvC are just fun to play. Fortnite just... never appealed to me after they switched from the gameplay format in the original announcement to the BR one.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Oh yeah, that is a question I want to ask

Which game do you think has the better crossovers? Smash Ultimate or Fortnite?

Comparing Fortnite and Smash's crossovers is like comparing apples and oranges.One is focused squarely on video games as a celebration of the the medium, and the other takes stuff across all of pop culture, regardless of medium.

At the end of the day though, I'm gonna say Ultimate, it's more organized and I'm heavily interested in it as an actual game unlike Fortnite.

That being said though, Fortnite still got itself some notable crossovers, like being the rare occurrence where Marvel and DC are both involved, so that's pretty cool

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Imagine for a moment: The trailer begins!

Everybody is fighting Metal Gear Rex, it's crazy! Explosions everywhere! Snake is dodging, Link's trying to shoot in midair with his arrow, but to no avail. Min Min's trying to punch which of course doesn't work. Everyone's trying to fight Metal Gear but just when it's trying to launch the big one to finish them off, a GIANT EXPLOSION ENDS METAL GEAR REX! KABLOOOOOOOOOOOEY!

Everyone gets sent flying into the snow. Snow blows, smoke billows, fire too. Eventually the fighters see Metal Gear Rex in a pile, destroyed, and in a recreation of the iconic scene, Fighter 10 is standing on top of it:
View attachment 318307

Hasn’t Metal Gear been treated poorly enough over the last 5 years?

 

[volbound1700]

Honestly,
I wouldn't be surprised if playable character negotiations failed through with Ubisoft because Ubisoft themselves could have said "We'd like for you to add Rayman" while Nintendo would have preferred someone like, say, Ezio from Assassin's Creed.

Vice versa could have happened, too. Perhaps Ubisoft really doesn't care for Rayman and his series anyone as much as their other IPs, while Nintendo still recognizes its potential.

I think Ubisoft really wanted Rayman in Smash, that is why we have all of the Rayman content in Smash. I am just not sure about Nintendo.

Who knows, Rayman might be the guy at E3. Rayman did have high demand at the end of Wii U life cycle which was when Nintendo was planning the roster for Ultimate. This is what gives me some hope. If you consider the timing that the Base and DLC rosters for Smash were probably being planned in 2016 or 2017, it makes you think Rayman still might have a shot.

Ubisoft could have had Nintendo push Rayman to E3 launch to increase his hype for Brawlhalla.

Then again, it does sound like Brawlhalla might be consolation to Rayman fans for him NOT appearing in Smash. We will see.

 

[N3ON]

At the very least Rayman feels like a base game character whose placement in a market release version of Smash would greatly reduce any regional risk in his inclusion.

Theoretically I suppose that's true, but they don't see base as an opportunity to include lopsided third-parties either; they just avoid them roster-wide.

Honestly,
I wouldn't be surprised if playable character negotiations failed through with Ubisoft because Ubisoft themselves could have said "We'd like for you to add Rayman" while Nintendo would have preferred someone like, say, Ezio from Assassin's Creed.

Vice versa could have happened, too. Perhaps Ubisoft really doesn't care for Rayman and his series anyone as much as their other IPs, while Nintendo still recognizes its potential.

It seems abundantly obvious that Ubisoft would love for Nintendo to include Rayman in Smash, giving them a unique model and campaigning for him during the ballot, and Nintendo just doesn't seem like they want to.

But if Nintendo wanted another Ubisoft character, I can't imagine they'd refuse. Ubisoft seems pretty eager and pretty cooperative. I think Nintendo just isn't interested in sparing a slot for them. But Ubisoft is hardly alone in that regard.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Rabbids and the boys waiting for CP10

For real though, imagine if Rayman's "hypothetical" trailer had him breaking out of the Battlefield ice.

 

[Ivander]

Oh yeah, that is a question I want to ask

Which game do you think has the better crossovers? Smash Ultimate or Fortnite?

Obviously, Fortnite does better with the movie crossovers. But I think Smash Ultimate is better with it's Video game crossovers.
Like yes, Fortnite has Kratos, Lara Croft, Borderlands, Master Chief, Aloy, and Street Fighter. But like, Smash Ultimate has some of the biggest heavy hitters like Solid Snake, Sonic the Hedgehog, Cloud Strife and Sephiroth, Mega Man, Ryu, Pac-Man and Steve from Minecraft, not to mention Nintendo icons like Mario, Link, Pikachu, Donkey Kong, etc.

I think Gil put it best. Smash Bros. is better with it being a huge Video Game Crossover Fest while Fortnite is better with general crossovers. And while Fortnite may have gotten alot of them within a short span compared to Smash Bros, Smash Bros has left a huge impact and legacy with it's crossovers.
Think about it. When Fortnite announces it's crossovers, they just happen. There's not really any build-up. The announcement just happens.
But why do you think Smash Bros. is such a big subject in regards to Reaction Videos? Because there's build-up just from the anticipation. When a Direct is announced and a character is ready to be shown, everybody prepares themselves. They are in that seat of theirs just ready to see who the next character is. And it builds them up with showing the atmosphere, the setting and the tension that all leads up to the character reveal. Heck, as with Sephiroth, just hearing the frickin' music is enough to get people on the hype train.
When Fortnite gets a collab trailer, the hype is just one and done. It's starts and then it's gone. When Smash Bros. reveals the next character, the hype comes and it stays there for quite a while.

 

[Technomage]

Rabbids and the boys waiting for CP10

For real though, imagine if Rayman's "hypothetical" trailer had him breaking out of the Battlefield ice.

I've seen that theory already, and it is an interesting one; it'd be a genius reveal.

 

[volbound1700]

Rabbids and the boys waiting for CP10

For real though, imagine if Rayman's "hypothetical" trailer had him breaking out of the Battlefield ice.

That is the thing, it was weird that we got the Rabbids but no Rayman Mii Costume. It is just so up and down with Rayman. You would think that if all that Ubisoft was getting was Mii Costumes, Rayman would be one. His costume would work well with the Mii Brawler.

 

[Shroob]

That is the thing, it was weird that we got the Rabbids but no Rayman Mii Costume. It is just so up and down with Rayman. You would think that if all that Ubisoft was getting was Mii Costumes, Rayman would be one. His costume would work well with the Mii Brawler.

I mean, in an odd way, I'd say that the Rabbids are more well known than Rayman nowadays.


Like, it wasn't Rayman that got a crossover video game with Mario.

 

[N3ON]

That is the thing, it was weird that we got the Rabbids but no Rayman Mii Costume. It is just so up and down with Rayman. You would think that if all that Ubisoft was getting was Mii Costumes, Rayman would be one. His costume would work well with the Mii Brawler.

On the other hand, I think it'd be even weirder if the Rabbids didn't release in the same pack as Rayman, were he set to be a fighter.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

That is the thing, it was weird that we got the Rabbids but no Rayman Mii Costume. It is just so up and down with Rayman. You would think that if all that Ubisoft was getting was Mii Costumes, Rayman would be one. His costume would work well with the Mii Brawler.

Ya know...
The Creeper and Pig Mii Costumes have "floating" arms.

Maybe they were made to give the Creeper and Pig costumes more character, but what if they were made for a test of some sort?

(fan-made btw, remain calm)
And what if this costumes coincides with another Ubisoft character?
I'm telling y'all, keep your eyes on Ezio; I'm not as confident on the Prince of Persia.

 

[MBRedboy31]

Not to mention most of them aren't video game-related crossovers



ALSO, I had a company in mind, it's a big one, but it's a mobile game company...
Supercell.
Imagine if we get CoC content lol
Of course non of their characters or games made Nintendo appearances, and I did research to verify this, so unironic speculation wouldn't really lead us anywhere. But thinking about it for fun is, well, fun. lol

I’m much more familiar with Brawl Stars in terms of Supercell content, but yeah, have they ever done any external crossovers? The only crossover content in Brawl Stars is either skins based on other Supercell games, or from Brown and Friends from the LINE app. There’s two characters from LINE Friends physically present in Brawl Stars as skins of other characters, but those two skins have 100% unique animations at least even if they have no gameplay differences.

 

[volbound1700]

The issue with a Non-Nintendo Video Game Cross over is that they would be missing the biggest franchise (and it isn't even close) of all-time.

Nintendo's greatest IP and the one thing that will keep Nintendo always relevant in the Video Game Industry. The Mario Brothers Franchise. Mario is so massive as a Franchise that it would be hard to overcome any gap without him. Just look at Mario sales compared to every other franchise: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_game_franchises

At nearly 800 million units sold across all divisions and even Mario spin-offs like Mario Kart beat most of the IP in Smash.

You also lose Pokemon and Legend of Zelda. Those three IP are just super iconic and hard to replace. Smash wins more because of the Nintendo First Party selections than the third-party.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Can’t believe it’s been 3 months since Pyra and Mythra came out…

On the 17th it’ll be 4 months since their announcement. So there will be essentially a 4 month gap between reveals. The longest since Joker I think.

Edit: no wait. The gap between Byleth and Min Min was technically longer if we don’t count the “Arms character” reveal right?

 

[volbound1700]

Can’t believe it’s been 3 months since Pyra and Mythra came out…

On the 17th it’ll be 4 months since their announcement. So there will be essentially a 4 month gap between reveals. The longest since Joker I think.

It seemed like the Min Min to Steve gap was the longest. Min Min was in February of 2020 and then I think Steve wasn't announced until August.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

I’m much more familiar with Brawl Stars in terms of Supercell content, but yeah, have they ever done any external crossovers?

Other than a Super Bowl commercial for CoC starring Liam Neeson, no lol

Also,

I think Gil put it best. Smash Bros. is better with it being a huge Video Game Crossover Fest while Fortnite is better with general crossovers.

Thanks!
sniffs he called me Gil
What a guy/gal

 

[epicmartin7]

Final Color Update before E3 coming soon.

 

[ahemtoday]

A bit of a tangent, here, and off of a long-outdated conversation topic at that, but I played the demo of Immortals: Fenyx Rising, 'cause I got it for my birthday a couple months ago.

...Yeah, I'm glad I didn't actually open the box. I really didn't enjoy my time with the game. And I spent, like, two hours in it and got up to a boss whom I presume was the end of the demo, so I think I gave it a fair shake.

This was actually my first time with a Breath of the Wild-like game - actually, my first time with an open-world game in general - and... I'll be honest, I was super disappointed. I climbed on top of stuff I had the urge to like I thought you were supposed to in this sort of game, but there was always either nothing at the top or something not very interesting at the top like... Ambrosia, I think. So that was kind of demoralizing.

Honestly, the biggest impact it had on me is making me think I wouldn't like various games of a similar nature. Like, I wasn't sure about Breath of the Wild already, but after I:FR, like... I don't know, I can only assume I'll be super not-into-it in the same way.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Hey man, don't sell Cartoon All-Stars to the Rescue short haha
View attachment 318313

You had Winnie the Pooh, Ninja Turtles, Chipmunks, Ghostbusters AND Garfield

They teamed up to fight drugs. Don't do drugs, kids. Drugs r bad.

Who's the purple guy?

 

[volbound1700]

Yeah, a non-Nintendo cross over would have to go outside of the video game industry to compete against the likes of let's say the Mario Franchise.

You will have to get Marvel, Star Wars, Mickey Mouse, TMNT, etc. Those characters can, to some degree, compete with Mario. No video game franchise can compete in iconicness with Mario.

Nintendo can just throw Mario into games and get guaranteed sales. This is why we don't see an F-Zero game for example. Mario Kart just overshadows it as a racing option. (Interestingly, F-Zero is appearing in Mario Kart now).

 

[spicynun]

Jump Ultimate Stars is one of the best crossover fighting games imo. I imported ages ago without knowing any Japanese and I loved every second of it. Shame that series ended up at Jump Force.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Final Color Update before E3 coming soon.

What colors did you predict for 10 and 11 again?
Color resembling Pink and Brown?

 

[Ivander]

What colors did you predict for 10 and 11 again?
Color resembling Pink and Brown?

10 was a Pink color. 11 I think was a green-ish color, since I think we mentioned Master Chief for that color quite a bit when both colors were shown.

 

[Technomage]

Who's the purple guy?

The tobacco smoke monster, and the main villain of the special.

 

[Shroob]

Final Color Update before E3 coming soon.

Is Pink no longer a stink?

 

[Nekoo]

I think the issue with Western IP vs Eastern/Japan IP mostly come down to the way characters and...Well, "branding" is created. It's not uncommon for a Japanese studio to stick with an IP for years/Decade, managing to create a base and "brand power" not only throught the games, but throught their characters.

I'm going to take the exemple of Final Fantasy or even Tales of as they have this peculiar case of not even keeping the same cast between games, yet all of their protagonists enjoy a "similar popularity" between each others, beside some big outliner (Cloud/Noctis/Lightning for FF and Yuri/Llyod/Sorey for Tales of)

When one of their game release, or start marketing you can see that Final Fantasy and Tales of build their brand toward their characters, even before the stories. Whenever it's figures, merch, crossovers in mobile games or other games, novel, anime tons of stuff around the characters which help to see them recognizable, even to a more broad appeal audience, not only around the game release, but for years, once the game is release, those characters doesn't just "suddenly disappear" until their next game. Square-Enix and Bandai Namco keep them in people's mind with all of those things, they want you to remember them and it usually work pretty well.

And this is a complete 180 with how Western IP work for most cases. Most of the time, Western IP or Characters enjoy an appearance or two, with heavy marketing, almost holywood like before ending up dormant, their own company not talking about them, the devs and marketing focused on something else, before going back to them a few years later, with usually very mixed results.

And I think this is why the Japan vs Western IP stuff is problematic, and usually why...For lack of a better term, most, if not all of the most recognizable characters in the world are Japanese and why Nintendo is absurdely good at this.
Mario? Link? Pikachu? They're here and won't go. Nintendo Create IP, but make sure you always remember a way or another their characters, Microsoft does the same with Master Chief for exemple.

Rayman? Gordon Freeman? Doomguy? Crash?
No one can argue against their star powers...However, their presence throught the collectiveness and lasting impact is where it's hard, because their devs usually write a page for them, and instead of turning it, just ****ing close the book to write a new one, before taking it and opening it up again a few years later remembering that they didn't finish it.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Can’t believe it’s been 3 months since Pyra and Mythra came out…

On the 17th it’ll be 4 months since their announcement. So there will be essentially a 4 month gap between reveals. The longest since Joker I think.

Edit: no wait. The gap between Byleth and Min Min was technically longer if we don’t count the “Arms character” reveal right?

In terms of time between release, now is one of the longer periods:

Joker to Hero: 104 Days
Hero to Banjo: 36 Days
Banjo to Terry: 63 Days
Terry to Byleth: 83 Days
Average: Roughly 72 Days

Min Min to Steve: 106 Days
Steve to Sephiroth: 68 Days (63 if you count the Challenge Mode release)
Sephiroth to Pyra/Mythra: 65 Days (60 going off the Challenge Mode release)
Average: 80 Days (or 76 accounting for Challenge Mode)

If Nintendo released fighter 10 a few days after their E3 presentation, it would be roughly 104-106 days since Pyra/Mythra; definitely stretching it to the limits of what we've seen.