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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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Ivander

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Of course I go to bed and I miss the Phantasy Star conversations.

To continue it, yeah, Matoi is likely to be considered because she's the most important character in PSO2 next to the protagonist. She's introduced in Episode 1 and hardly does anything because she's recovering, as you and your first partner Afin find her in the snow with a mysterious weapon(which later turns out to be hers and called Clarissa the White). She has a strange connection and trust to your character and she eventually joins you to fight against the main antagonist of Episode 2 and she becomes your full-fledged partner in Episode 3 and the other episodes. The end of Episode 2 is where you find out your connection to her past.
After the events of Episode 3, your character and her are the only one with the special titles known as "The Guardians" because of both yours and her fights against the Profound Darkness, and while she's not the 2nd protagonist in Episode 4 and 5, she still plays important roles in them and she becomes the 2nd protagonist again in Episode 6. Her secondary role and connection to your character is like that of many female sidekicks who are the secondary protagonist to the main character. The most comparable one would be Mash from Fate/Grand Order.

For her character's abilities, she is a Techter/Force, a "Spellcaster"-like class and a conjurer of many powerful "Techniques". And she becomes one of the best Technique users lore-wise, to the point where in one instance, she is literally stopping time to prevent a black hole from engulfing the universe. Gameplay-wise, all partners are not good as you are encouraged to play with people rather than AI, but Matoi, and other Force/Techters, are still the more useful ones as they give supports like heals and buffs.
Her appearance.......yes, it's not good.......but.....

You poor poor things. If you saw the other outfits that your frickin' character can wear, you'd frickin' appreciate that the only time Matoi ever comes close is when she gets "possessed" near the end of Episode 3 and that she keeps a relatively tame outfit for the rest of her appearances. Her outfit is nothing compared to the monstrosities that are the "functionally nude" outfits, the frickin' virgin killer sweater, a frickin' ribbon wrapped around the body like a present, outfits that are nothing more than black tape on the "parts", etc. May I also say that Phantasy Star Online 2 is one of the few MMORPGs that can be "modded"? And what do you think is one of those mods? :smash: And just think, we have New Genesis coming out with the "better graphics" and the possibility of some of those outfits returning. I will point out that they do equalise on the men though. The Male characters do have access to thongs, speedos, the VK-Sweater, very small bathing towels, etc. The Males aren't safe from fanservice either.

Okay....that's one and all the frickin' monstrosity outfits out of the way.....the reasoning that she needs to show more skin to control her photons is actually a legitimate reason in-game. Yes, it's more an excuse to rationalise the revealing clothing but they do actually show this issue regarding Photons. For one example, another PSO2 character named Gene who used to have a more normal design, has a combat moment where she burns through many photons and because of her clothing keeping the "exhaust" in, she outright faints as a result. And they needed to make her clothing more revealing and they also needed to make her outfit out of breathable fabric.
Also, CASTs, one of the races of PSO2, were once Humans who needed a different body because their Photon Aptitude was very high and a potential risk to their human bodies that their new bodies were made to properly control them. If they don't change their bodies, they risk living with constant pain throughout their life.
Sadly, those two examples aside, they don't really give a "Male" example with the photon issues, especially when the main Hunter outfit is one of those outfits that covers the whole body. Only the females and the "Humans to Robots" are the examples.

All that out of the way...it really makes sense that Matoi would be considered since she's the 2nd most important and most recurring character in PSO2. She would also be a unique character in that she would be a Spellcaster character with a giant Staff/Rod(with some actual weight) as her weapon. She has access to many elemental Techniques consisting of Fire, Ice, Wind, Lightning, Light and Dark spells, although she's a constant user of the Light magic. There are also Techniques that can "pull in" enemies, can damage and lower enemies stats, can turn you into a speedy ball of lightning that can phase through enemies and a whole more variety.
Really, her only competition would be the Avatar characters of Phantasy Star Online and Alis Landale from the first Phantasy Star game. And both of them would be the typical sword wielders.....well, maybe not the Avatar character if they add in other weapons like the Wired Lance, the Double Saber, the Assault Rifle, etc. But Matoi would easily be the most unique out of all 3 of them with her being the only Spellcaster character and the amount of Techniques she can be given.

As for her reception.....I'm sure there will be people confused at who she is, but with the focus on PSO2 for the last year, and with New Genesis coming out, I wouldn't call her a completely unknown character. Heck, there are some notable Youtubers like Maximilian Dood who have played PSO2 who would likely recognise her(assuming they did any story mode). But regardless of whether it was her or the Avatar or Alis Landale, they would still get hate for being a JRPG character.
 
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Sari

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Popping in to say that I finished my latest Smash Underdogs article. This time it's on none other than...


Nathan Drake from Uncharted!



Click here to read the article!

I think of all of the articles I've done so far, this one turned out to be my favorite. The Uncharted games were some of my favorite titles of the early 2010's (or late 2000's technically) so it felt really nice to talk about them.
 

Cosmic77

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I don't think it's really all that strange for someone to say they've never heard of Persona prior to Smash. Even among some of the more dedicated gamers, a lot of people never heard of Persona until P5. Combine that with the fact that P5 was a PS4 exclusive that was rated M? My jaw probably won't drop to the ground if I found out someone I knew first learned of Persona because they bought the Fighter's Pass.

As for whether or not Lloyd would be positively received, I have my doubts. A lot of people griped and complained upon Hero's reveal. If the West wasn't enthusiastic about DQ, then I fail to understand why anyone believes Tales would be recieved significantly better when there's only two spots left.
 

Professor Pumpkaboo

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GilTheGreat19

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Popping in to say that I finished my latest Smash Underdogs article. This time it's on none other than...


Nathan Drake from Uncharted!



Click here to read the article!

I think of all of the articles I've done so far, this one turned out to be my favorite. The Uncharted games were some of my favorite titles of the early 2010's (or late 2000's technically) so it felt really nice to talk about them.
Good work, Sari!
Imagine if we get both Lara and Nate 0_o
 

Gengar84

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I don't think it's really all that strange for someone to say they've never heard of Persona prior to Smash. Even among some of the more dedicated gamers, a lot of people never heard of Persona until P5. Combine that with the fact that P5 was a PS4 exclusive that was rated M? My jaw probably won't drop to the ground if I found out someone I knew first learned of Persona because they bought the Fighter's Pass.

As for whether or not Lloyd would be positively received, I have my doubts. A lot of people griped and complained upon Hero's reveal. If the West wasn't enthusiastic about DQ, then I fail to understand why anyone believes Tales would be recieved significantly better when there's only two spots left.
I think you’re probably right about the general reception Lloyd would get. A lot of people are bored with JRPG swordsmen and want something else.

Then there’s people like me (which I don’t think there are very many of but there has to be a few). I love Tales and have no problems with more JRPG swordsmen but I just never liked Lloyd as a character. I would be hyped for lots of other Tales characters like Velvet, Zaveid, Rita, or Sheena but I’d be mostly indifferent to Lloyd.
 

GilTheGreat19

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Sari, just a question:
How do you select your Underdog picks? Based on the games YOU played or on a poll you made or what?
 

Sari

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Sari, just a question:
How do you select your Underdog picks? Based on the games YOU played or on a poll you made or what?
I pretty much just pick characters on my own, mainly from games that I've played who I feel like should get talked about more. I sometimes take requests though most of the time it's hard to do them since I can't think of full-on movesets without playing their games first.
 

SNEKeater

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I will say this and I notice a trend (even with myself). It seems like JRPG/Anime characters seem to be less popular if they are more recent characters and have not been a part of a long running franchise (i.e. Byleth, Mythra/Pyra, Joker). If the Franchise has been around since at least N64/PS1 era and is still running, it seems to get a lot more support.

I think it is more of an old vs. new fanbase than a JRPG vs. Other. Some of the newer IP doesn't relate to full fanbase because they just haven't played the IP or have emotional connection to it.

I will say this, I am more of a fan of adding long-running franchises than characters that have only appeared in recent games.
I mean, your point doesn't sound that crazy, but when you see the reaction quite a lot of people had against Hero, when Dragon Quest has ENORMOUS history with Nintendo, it's a long running series (35 years) and it's basically the grandfather of an entire genre, your argument completely falls apart.

These people you mention absolutely don't care if a character is old or not or if it's Nintendo enough. Hero's inclusion proved that. For them, by default a JRPG character will be bad, or at best, an okay pick, only because they're either from a JRPG or anime.

Most of my most wanteds if not all of them are at least 10+ years old so it's not like I'm being targeted with this, but when it comes to JRPG characters and all, some folks just behave like childs. That's why I never liked the anime swordfighter jokes, for some that was just a joke but others took it very seriously and as an excuse to bash a certain group of characters that they're not very fond of.

Also, even if Lloyd has been a decent fan request over the years, he would definitely get a lot of **** at this point because of 1. we're in the endgame with 2 characters left, and 99% of characters will get quite the hate just because "it wasn't who I wanted" and 2. a part of the community seems to be very offended by JRPG/anime looking characters at this point, and I'm pretty sure not even the likes of Isaac or Lloyd would avoid the backlash if they were DLC.

Lloyd would be a bit better received than Yuri or Velvet, to mention other candidates from Tales, but I'm pretty sure he would get a lot of backlash. Also, his support hasn't been that big in recent times, I'd say, compared to the first Fighter Pass or base roster speculation.
A lot of people is expecting characters like Crash or Master Chief at E3, so almost anything anime looking appearing there will trigger these people. Unless we get someone like Sora or Dante, though I wouldn't really classify the latter one as anime.
 

Garteam

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I really like Joker and Persona 5, but both he and his series are somewhat niche relative to many of the Third Parties already in the game. 4.6 million in sales is very, very successful, but it's still a little underwhelming relative to the tens of millions of copies sold from series like Mega Man, Castlevania, and Street Fighter. That's also ignoring the juggernaut franchises that everyone recognizes like Sonic, Pac-Man, Final Fantasy, and Minecraft.

While more and more people will recognize Joker as Persona continues to grow, he's still pretty far from being one of the characters on the roster that everyone in a general audience would recognize. For example, one of my friends from university thought Joker was from JoJo's Bizarre Adventure.
 
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GilTheGreat19

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I pretty much just pick characters on my own, mainly from games that I've played who I feel like should get talked about more. I sometimes take requests though most of the time it's hard to do them since I can't think of full-on movesets without playing their games first.
Good to know, thanks!


I really like Joker and Persona 5, but both he and his series are somewhat niche relative to many of the Third Parties already in the game.
Gonna have to agree with you on this one. AS A WHOLE, yea. If we're talking big name third party titles' respective characters over the last decade, though, he's totally up there.
 

SharkLord

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I really like Joker and Persona 5, but both he and his series are somewhat niche relative to many of the Third Parties already in the game. 4.6 million in sales is very, very successful, but it's still a little underwhelming relative to the tens of millions of copies sold from series like Mega Man, Castlevania, and Street Fighter. That's also ignoring the juggernaut franchises that everyone recognizes like Sonic, Pac-Man, Final Fantasy, and Minecraft.

While more and more people will recognize Joker as Persona continues to grow, he's still pretty far from being one of the characters on the roster that everyone in a general audience would recognize. For example, one of my friends from university thought Joker was JoJo's Bizarre Adventure.
I mean Personas are pretty much JRPG Stands anyways so he's not that far off :drshrug:
 

GilTheGreat19

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Joker's inclusion is based, to me, for 2 reasons:

1) Persona is a vibe of its own: the music (chef's kiss), the characters, the story and lore
2) Left-field. Minus the wizard Alpharad, no one though about this character. It hyped up the pass and TGA.

Each character is hype for their own reason. The hype will ALWAYS outweigh the salt.
 

volbound1700

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I mean, your point doesn't sound that crazy, but when you see the reaction quite a lot of people had against Hero, when Dragon Quest has ENORMOUS history with Nintendo, it's a long running series (35 years) and it's basically the grandfather of an entire genre, your argument completely falls apart.

These people you mention absolutely don't care if a character is old or not or if it's Nintendo enough. Hero's inclusion proved that. For them, by default a JRPG character will be bad, or at best, an okay pick, only because they're either from a JRPG or anime.

Most of my most wanteds if not all of them are at least 10+ years old so it's not like I'm being targeted with this, but when it comes to JRPG characters and all, some folks just behave like childs. That's why I never liked the anime swordfighter jokes, for some that was just a joke but others took it very seriously and as an excuse to bash a certain group of characters that they're not very fond of.

Also, even if Lloyd has been a decent fan request over the years, he would definitely get a lot of **** at this point because of 1. we're in the endgame with 2 characters left, and 99% of characters will get quite the hate just because "it wasn't who I wanted" and 2. a part of the community seems to be very offended by JRPG/anime looking characters at this point, and I'm pretty sure not even the likes of Isaac or Lloyd would avoid the backlash if they were DLC.

Lloyd would be a bit better received than Yuri or Velvet, to mention other candidates from Tales, but I'm pretty sure he would get a lot of backlash. Also, his support hasn't been that big in recent times, I'd say, compared to the first Fighter Pass or base roster speculation.
A lot of people is expecting characters like Crash or Master Chief at E3, so almost anything anime looking appearing there will trigger these people. Unless we get someone like Sora or Dante, though I wouldn't really classify the latter one as anime.
To me Lloyd and Yuri are a push in popularity for Tails. Both would probably be received the same. Velvet might be a little more backlash.

I do agree with one of your points that TIMING is everything. If Byleth had been the first FP announcement, he/she would have had less hate.

Imagine if the Final Smash Ultimate presentation had the King K Rool Trailer in it instead of the August one. I think that presentation would have been treated differently. (I don't think the November direct was that bad when you account for the DLC announcement but it felt like a letdown in lieu of the Grinch leak which leaked a very popular, but unrealistic, final roster).
 

volbound1700

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Joker's inclusion is based, to me, for 2 reasons:

1) Persona is a vibe of its own: the music (chef's kiss), the characters, the story and lore
2) Left-field. Minus the wizard Alpharad, no one though about this character. It hyped up the pass and TGA.

Each character is hype for their own reason. The hype will ALWAYS outweigh the salt.
Persona is HUGE in Japan and Nintendo is trying to get it more on their consoles. I imagine future Persona games are more likely to be Nintendo exclusive or focused more on the console. Sony is cutting its resources in Japan and, in a way, surrendering its place in the market. This means, some of the big IPs in the region, are likely going to favor Nintendo more now. (Kind of a reverse of the PS1/N64 era).

I think Joker finished #1 in a Japanese poll for characters to include in the game.

I am not a fan of the character and he was obscure to me. (Partially because I only have Nintendo consoles and JRPGs are usually not my thing). I didn't know anyone that had played the series but apparently it has fans somewhere and sales a lot. I guess that makes sense for his inclusion.

It just seems there probably wasn't a lot of Smash fans that played his series.
 

Megadoomer

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I do agree with one of your points that TIMING is everything. If Byleth had been the first FP announcement, he/she would have had less hate.
Wouldn't Byleth have been hated even more if that was the case? Corrin got a lot of hate partially for being the sixth Fire Emblem character (pushing the series over Zelda in that regard, when the series had already gotten two newcomers in the base game and another character as DLC - it's not like the series had been neglected or ignored in Smash 4) and partially for being from a game (Fire Emblem Fates) that wasn't even released outside of Japan at the time of his announcement. (and I'm pretty sure that the game was already controversial even at that point, given some of the support conversations in the Japanese version and the "one game for the price of three" idea)

Having Byleth as the very first Fighters Pass reveal would do that exact same thing all over again (except he'd be the eighth Fire Emblem character), making it seem like Nintendo hadn't learned a thing from Corrin, and setting a bad tone for the pass as a whole. (since it would probably make people worry that this game's DLC was going to be used for blatantly promotional picks - we already saw something like that where people assumed that FP1 would be all third party because of :ultjoker::ulthero::ultbanjokazooie::ult_terry:, assuming that FP2 would be mostly first party because of :ultbyleth::ultminmin, and assuming that FP2 would largely focus on new games and leave out old favourites because of :ultminmin:ultsteve:)

At least when Byleth released, Three Houses was already released worldwide (so at least people knew who the character was and could play their game), we knew that there was a whole other Fighters Pass on the way, and we had plenty of other DLC picks to know that the entire DLC wasn't going to be along the same lines.
 
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SpectreJordan

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I really like Joker and Persona 5, but both he and his series are somewhat niche relative to many of the Third Parties already in the game. 4.6 million in sales is very, very successful, but it's still a little underwhelming relative to the tens of millions of copies sold from series like Mega Man, Castlevania, and Street Fighter. That's also ignoring the juggernaut franchises that everyone recognizes like Sonic, Pac-Man, Final Fantasy, and Minecraft.

While more and more people will recognize Joker as Persona continues to grow, he's still pretty far from being one of the characters on the roster that everyone in a general audience would recognize. For example, one of my friends from university thought Joker was from JoJo's Bizarre Adventure.
Mega Man’s an interesting series. It’s so well known & has sold a lot, but only MM2/MMX/MM11 have sold over a million. The series’ large sales are mostly due to how many games there are.

Meanwhile, Persona 5’s sold way more than any Mega Man game. If future Persona games can continue 5’s upward trend (& come out more often lol), it could eventually surpass Mega Man.

Persona 5 was a turning point for the series where it’s finally become more mainstream.
 

SNEKeater

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To me Lloyd and Yuri are a push in popularity for Tails. Both would probably be received the same. Velvet might be a little more backlash.

I do agree with one of your points that TIMING is everything. If Byleth had been the first FP announcement, he/she would have had less hate.

Imagine if the Final Smash Ultimate presentation had the King K Rool Trailer in it instead of the August one. I think that presentation would have been treated differently. (I don't think the November direct was that bad when you account for the DLC announcement but it felt like a letdown in lieu of the Grinch leak which leaked a very popular, but unrealistic, final roster).
Tails, as in the one from Sonic? I don't know, I'd be glad for that to be true but I'm pretty sure Lloyd and Yuri would get less love compared to Tails, at least among western Smash fans. Which is kinda understandable anyways, Tails is a super recognizable character even if it's only because he's from Sonic.

I agree with the timing thing. If Joker was announced now he would get more ****, and the same for any other character to be honest. It just happens that obviously, there's going to be an order of character announcements, so someone has to be the last one. I assume the E3 character will be at least decently popular, not necessarily someone like Chief or Crash, but someone kinda popular or known, I guess.

But if the last DLC fighter isn't revealed there, boy, I already feel bad for whoever character is the last one, because I think that regardless of who it is, said character is going to get a lot of **** and hate because he/she is going to be the last one, which will be accompanied by the fact that for a lot of people, "my most wanted didn't make it", so they will aim their disappointment towards whoever they pick for the last slot. Even if the last one is someone big, I feel reception won't be as good as would be in different circumstances.
 

TriggerX

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To me Lloyd and Yuri are a push in popularity for Tails. Both would probably be received the same. Velvet might be a little more backlash.

I do agree with one of your points that TIMING is everything. If Byleth had been the first FP announcement, he/she would have had less hate.

Imagine if the Final Smash Ultimate presentation had the King K Rool Trailer in it instead of the August one. I think that presentation would have been treated differently. (I don't think the November direct was that bad when you account for the DLC announcement but it felt like a letdown in lieu of the Grinch leak which leaked a very popular, but unrealistic, final roster).
IDK, only way Byleth could avoid being hated on is if the character was just part of the base roster. I think most people actually enjoy the character, but not many people want to pay any more money for additional fire emblem characters.

As far as persona goes though, I think Joker was a great add. I'm more of a sony fan I guess, so it was nice to see a character not typically associated with nintendo. Persona is popular out here in the west as well, just not to the degree it is in japan obviously. However, Nintendo made a great choice going with Joker initially because it really set the tone that anyone could be possible.
 

volbound1700

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Wouldn't Byleth have been hated even more if that was the case? Corrin got a lot of hate partially for being the sixth Fire Emblem character (pushing the series over Zelda in that regard, when the series had already gotten two newcomers in the base game and another character as DLC - it's not like the series had been neglected or ignored in Smash 4) and partially for being from a game (Fire Emblem Fates) that wasn't even released outside of Japan at the time of his announcement. (and I'm pretty sure that the game was already controversial even at that point, given some of the support conversations in the Japanese version and the "one game for the price of three" idea)

Having Byleth as the very first Fighters Pass reveal would do that exact same thing all over again (except he'd be the eighth Fire Emblem character), making it seem like Nintendo hadn't learned a thing from Corrin, and setting a bad tone for the pass as a whole. (since it would probably make people worry that this game's DLC was going to be used for blatantly promotional picks - we already saw something like that where people assumed that FP1 would be all third party because of :ultjoker::ulthero::ultbanjokazooie::ult_terry:, assuming that FP2 would be mostly first party because of :ultbyleth::ultminmin, and assuming that FP2 would largely focus on new games and leave out old favourites because of :ultminmin:ultsteve:)

At least when Byleth released, Three Houses was already released worldwide (so at least people knew who the character was and could play their game), we knew that there was a whole other Fighters Pass on the way, and we had plenty of other DLC picks to know that the entire DLC wasn't going to be along the same lines.
Corrin primarily got hate because he was the last character and supposedly took a spot from another first-party that could have been added (i.e. Wolf).

Byleth would have gotten hate either way. Granted had Byleth been announced first, the pass itself may not have been well-received.

Mega Man’s an interesting series. It’s so well known & has sold a lot, but only MM2/MMX/MM11 have sold over a million. The series’ large sales are mostly due to how many games there are.

Meanwhile, Persona 5’s sold way more than any Mega Man game. If future Persona games can continue 5’s upward trend (& come out more often lol), it could eventually surpass Mega Man.

Persona 5 was a turning point for the series where it’s finally become more mainstream.
Also keep in mind that markets in general were smaller in NES era. There was just less people and less markets across the board. I will say this, most house holds had or knew about Megaman when I was growing up. I bought Megaman 1 + 2 from a classmate that was selling his NES games. It was a common staple on NES. I have not heard people talking about or passing around Persona. Then again, I am not 10-12 anymore so that maybe the reason why.

Tails, as in the one from Sonic? I don't know, I'd be glad for that to be true but I'm pretty sure Lloyd and Yuri would get less love compared to Tails, at least among western Smash fans. Which is kinda understandable anyways, Tails is a super recognizable character even if it's only because he's from Sonic.

I agree with the timing thing. If Joker was announced now he would get more ****, and the same for any other character to be honest. It just happens that obviously, there's going to be an order of character announcements, so someone has to be the last one. I assume the E3 character will be at least decently popular, not necessarily someone like Chief or Crash, but someone kinda popular or known, I guess.

But if the last DLC fighter isn't revealed there, boy, I already feel bad for whoever character is the last one, because I think that regardless of who it is, said character is going to get a lot of **** and hate because he/she is going to be the last one, which will be accompanied by the fact that for a lot of people, "my most wanted didn't make it", so they will aim their disappointment towards whoever they pick for the last slot. Even if the last one is someone big, I feel reception won't be as good as would be in different circumstances.
I actually meant Tales as in the series/franchise and not the Sonic character. Auto-correct got me.
 
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Yacobo

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Byleth would've been better received if Fire Emblem wasn't already grossly overrepresented and constantly got characters. Just like with Corrin. Alongside the JRPG characters would have less criticisim if both fighters passes and smash 4 DLC wasn't almost nothing but them.
 

volbound1700

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Byleth would've been better received if Fire Emblem wasn't already grossly overrepresented and constantly got characters. Just like with Corrin. Alongside the JRPG characters would have less criticisim if both fighters passes and smash 4 DLC wasn't almost nothing but them.
Not just do they get a lot of characters, the characters have very similar movesets and designs. I have played 4-5 FE titles (depending on if you consider FE Heroes on the Phone as a FE title or not) and the variety in the game is far greater than what is represented in Smash. This is why I liked Robin a lot. He represents, loosely, the three Mage classes from FE games but they still stuck him with a sword lol.
 

Ramen Tengoku

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Placement is pretty much never the problem, it's morseo the character themselves.

No matter where you'd put place controversial characters in the pass, whether they were first, last or straight down the middle, they'd get flack regardless for well... being that character.
 
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Cutie Gwen

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Placement is pretty much never the problem, it's morseo the character themselves.

No matter where you'd put place controversial characters in the pass, whether they were first, last or straight down the middle, they'd get flack regardless for well... being that character.
Tbf being the last one actually does change it, it means the pressure's that much higher and that if it's not insert most wanted then I'm legally allowed to riot
 

Staarih

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Persona 5 was a turning point for the series where it’s finally become more mainstream.
Definitely. Now that I think of it, even if the Persona series seems to be on an upward trend in itself, Joker in Smash may have also have a positive impact much like some first party picks often attributed to such phenomenon (Marth & Fire Emblem, Shulk & Xenoblade).
 
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SKX31

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Perception is reality, however it doesn't change facts. Don't have me bring up the Persona 5 sales for just 2.5 games (P5/Royal and Strikers) and the amount of crossover with huge IP Joker did again.

Joker was like, the least controversial character in all fighter passes so far.
That's true - 99 % of the complaints I've seen surrounding Joker have come post-release where a lot of people (incl me, NGL) feeling that Arsene and his kit overall are overtuned. But that has practically nothing to do with the time between reveal and release, where most people were pretty damn receptive to Joker. It helps that P5 had been out for some time and proven to be a critical darling - the pre-existing momentum helped make sure that his Smash inclusion did a lot to further raise Persona's profile.

While more and more people will recognize Joker as Persona continues to grow, he's still pretty far from being one of the characters on the roster that everyone in a general audience would recognize. For example, one of my friends from university thought Joker was JoJo's Bizarre Adventure.
The various Smash podcasts and other vids show good examples of this happening - when pro player Tweek mentioned that he'd like Porky as a playable character one of his friends and fellow pro Larry Lurr (who's unfamiliar with Mother) went "Wait, Porky the Pig?".
 
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volbound1700

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Tbf being the last one actually does change it, it means the pressure's that much higher and that if it's not insert most wanted then I'm legally allowed to riot
I agree.

I would be surprised if there was a FP #3 (at least one that involved Sakurai). One thought that I have had is that Smash Ultimate is going to be hard to follow-up. Smash 6 has a great chance to be a letdown. I am wondering if the next console will port Smash Ultimate and add more content instead of creating a new game.

I do think under a scenario like that, future Fighter Passes could be an option but I think this is the last one we will get with the current team and Sakurai. IMO, if you were going to port Smash Ultimate, I would rather see more focus on new modes, especially for SP, instead of new characters.

One thing that Sakurai could do is leave the prospect of future DLC open ended and keep the debate going. Kind of lame but it could help reduce some of the heat.
 

Louie G.

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Placement is pretty much never the problem, it's morseo the character themselves.
Honestly I don't completely agree. With Byleth, I'd agree that they absolutely got slack because they were a Fire Emblem character and not much more. Although I think any other third party JRPG character would get more slack now, after a significant drought of information and two other characters with overlapping appeal, than they would have if they were revealed in Byleth's place after Banjo and Terry for example. Like Lloyd, I don't think people would have made a stink about him then... but they would if he showed up at E3 2021.

I'd wager a lot of the tension surrounding those sort of characters right now lies in the community's collective short term memory and inability to remember Min Min and Steve came right beforehand. But it's worth mentioning that Joker and Sephiroth saw little to no pushback.
 
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Ivander

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Wait, Isn't PSO2 actually on Switch, at least in Cloud form?
In Japan. And it came with Link's Breath of the Wild outfit and hairstyle for Males and Females, the Master Sword as a Camo and I think the Hylian Shield as an cosmetic Accessory.

But thinking about it, with New Genesis coming out on June 9th and also to the Switch, bringing the Switch version to the West would be something I could see happen in the Nintendo Direct.
 
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SNEKeater

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For Nintendo, I see Joker's inclusion as a way to

1. Improve their relationship with Sega/Atlus, which is always a factor when a third party character gets added
2. Appeal to a different demographic that might not have a big overlap with the core Nintendo fans
3. Take benefit from the growing popularity of Persona in the past years, which is very smart on their part

I also guess that with Joker, they were at least paving the way to get more Persona titles on Nintendo consoles in the future. It might take a while to get Persona 5 on Switch, but once it happens, I don't think the eventual Persona 6 is going to be Playstation exclusive. If Nintendo specifically wanted a character from Atlus, Joker was the most popular name available, so going with him makes sense.

And Persona as a brand isn't as mainstream as GTA, Fortnite or Minecraft are, that's obvious and I don't think anyone would say something like that, but it has definitely become a name you will hear frequently for anyone who is more dedicated to videogames. What I mean by this is, casual players for me are the ones who might regularly play games but don't give a **** about gaming conferences, news about games, and all of that. So the most hardcore gaming series they have probably heard about would be something like series such as Dark Souls or God of War, to name a few.

But if you're a more dedicated gamer and all? I think in that case it's very hard that you haven't heard at least once about Persona, or Persona 5, in the past few years. Maybe it's just me but I've seen the game kinda everywhere to the point some other RPG games are compared to Persona 5 both by the media and the public, like happened with Yakuza Like a Dragon or like it has been happening with Neo The World Ends with You since it's announcement. I've also personally noted that the classic "best 10 JRPGs" kinda lists a lot of websites and Youtube channels do now feature Persona games more frequently compared to before Persona 5 was launched.

Maybe small details, but there are a lot of small things like the ones I mentioned that prove that Persona is definitely becoming bigger, and as of now it's definitely mainstream within the JRPG sphere.
 

PeridotGX

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I do agree with one of your points that TIMING is everything. If Byleth had been the first FP announcement, he/she would have had less hate.
It would be worse, if anything. TH wasn't out yet. At least people had played their game when Byleth got in, they wouldn't have that benefit unless you just swapped Byleth and Terry
 

GilTheGreat19

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Still standing by my prediction
FP10 and 11 will both be third party, good chance one of them will be western.

For the western slot I have in mind:
Crash
Doomguy
Dovahkiin (over doom guy, too, since doom guy might not have been successfully negotiated)
Someone from Valve
Tracer (pipe dream pick dear god please)
Diablo
Rayman
Anyone from League of Legends
Scorpion
Jonesy (doubt he'll happen though, but its fun to have characters in mind in general)
Anyone from Sony

For the eastern slot I have in mind:
Dr. Eggman
Lloyd or Yuri
Dante
Demi-Fiend
Ryu Hayabusa (still think he has a tiny bit of a shot)
Sol Badguy
Chosen Undead
Jin Kazama
Reimu
Agumon
Nightmare
Adol Christin
Jibanyan (I mean let's not leave Level-5 in the dust lol_

Whoo boy...
 
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