Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[osby]

Ayo, you guys were talking about Phantasy Star?

Aight, so it's like a big old influential JRPG series from back in the Master System/Mega Drive days, then it turned into Phantasy Star Online, an MMO series that's also really big and gives SEGA lots of the monies. That's essentially its abridged history. With that said, this might just be me knowing, like, nothing about PSO2, but I ain't really feeling Matoi tbh. Personally, I think it'd be Alis from the first PS game. A lot of the posts I'm seeing kinda give off the impression of thinking of PSO and only PSO when it comes to this, while yeah, these are the more successful parts of the franchise, but I feel like Alis is a more iconic overall character than anyone from the MMOs.

Hmm, I wouldn't be shocked by a PSO character over Alis. It's a classic vs modern icon situation and they can go either way as seen with Joker. Coincidentally P5 and PSO2 were both listed among SEGA's "we want to make these series global brands" list from earlier this year.

 

[Schnee117]

Possible Reveal Trailer Leak

Imgur: The magic of the Internet

m.imgur.com

It seems like it’s hinting at Chief. The thing that makes me think it’s game is how bland the backgrounds are and how there’s no discernible location at all. The close up of the Mario model does look good but Master Chief’s looks… off. I dunno why.

Edit: yeah it was fake I figured

Because it's the model they used for Halo 2 Anniversary's cutscenes
And they didn't need to do much work at all because it's from when he's escaping the Glassing beam after assassinating Regret they just changed the ground lol

 

[3BitSaurus]

Ayo, you guys were talking about Phantasy Star?

Aight, so it's like a big old influential JRPG series from back in the Master System/Mega Drive days, then it turned into Phantasy Star Online, an MMO series that's also really big and gives SEGA lots of the monies. That's essentially its abridged history. With that said, this might just be me knowing, like, nothing about PSO2, but I ain't really feeling Matoi tbh. Personally, I think it'd be Alis from the first PS game. A lot of the posts I'm seeing kinda give off the impression of thinking of PSO and only PSO when it comes to this, while yeah, these are the more successful parts of the franchise, but I feel like Alis is a more iconic overall character than anyone from the MMOs.

Hmm, I dunno much about PSO either, so I dunno who'd be chosen, but I wonder if the one you named would also be... not for good boys and girls, according to previous discussion...

Googles

Hmm, not really, looks pretty tam-

There's a character with the same name in PSO2.

It's somehow even more fitting with Horny Theory than the previous pick people were naming.

Nevermind, carry on then.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

[

iirc they weren't too fond of Little Mac, Doomguy or Master Chief (forgot which one it was..) and Ike's Smash 4 redesign, what with the Green Samus and Gorilla memes and all...
At least from some translated message board posts people shared from Japan sometime ago.

Actually the gorilla memes are a Japan staple, Sol Badguy gets called a gorilla by I-No in her character select and RE8 has a line about Chris calling him a boulder punching *******, the Japanese version calls him a ****ing gorilla, and what do you know, the JP fanbase called RE5 Chris a gorilla

I will say this and I notice a trend (even with myself). It seems like JRPG/Anime characters seem to be less popular if they are more recent characters and have not been a part of a long running franchise (i.e. Byleth, Mythra/Pyra, Joker). If the Franchise has been around since at least N64/PS1 era and is still running, it seems to get a lot more support.

I think it is more of an old vs. new fanbase than a JRPG vs. Other. Some of the newer IP doesn't relate to full fanbase because they just haven't played the IP or have emotional connection to it.

I will say this, I am more of a fan of adding long-running franchises than characters that have only appeared in recent games.

Fire Emblem's been around since the Famicom days and the first Persona games were on PS1

 

[volbound1700]

[

Actually the gorilla memes are a Japan staple, Sol Badguy gets called a gorilla by I-No in her character select and RE8 has a line about Chris calling him a boulder punching *******, the Japanese version calls him a ****ing gorilla, and what do you know, the JP fanbase called RE5 Chris a gorilla

Fire Emblem's been around since the Famicom days and the first Persona games were on PS1

You miss the entire point.

Byleth/Three Houses is recent IP. Marth or Roy have been around that long and both characters are well received. Similar situation with Persona and Joker. Joker is a recent character and the IP is more on Sony systems historically than Nintendo. The thing with FE is that it has already been done and beat into the ground. We really didn't need another FE pick. Lloyd or Sora have NOT been represented (I guess you could argue Cloud as a stretch for a Kingdom Heart rep but that is a massive stretch).

Take Tales which is frequently on Nintendo Systems and played probably by a large chunk of the base on here. People have more connection to Tales than Persona or Four Houses. I imagine that is why Tales would be a less controversial addition.

You don't see a lot of complaints about Hero and DQ because the series has been appearing regular on Nintendo consoles, even in North America, since the NES era.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Just thought of something...

What characters would get Japan to act in a salty way?

We always discuss salt in regards to the western demographic, after all. oh I don't want this mcjrpg dude this scramble mcbimbo guy is stupid etc

Ibh, idk if they are even capable of being salty. The closest I saw to that was their reaction to Little Mac where they were confused about who he was and asked who asked for him

 

[volbound1700]

Ibh, idk if they are even capable of being salty. The closest I saw to that was their reaction to Little Mac where they were confused about who he was and asked who asked for him

Japan seems like they would be salty about some Western IP. I don't think the hype for Banjo was that big in Japan. Even Sakurai acted disinterested in the character to a degree.

Perhaps Masterchief, Laracroft, Doomguy, Rayman, or Crash might be a salty pick for them. I don't really know because I don't live over there. Just like over here, they probably have a divided base about it.

 

[Technomage]

Hmm, I dunno much about PSO either, so I dunno who'd be chosen, but I wonder if the one you named would also be... not for good boys and girls, according to previous discussion...

Googles

Hmm, not really, looks pretty tam-

There's a character with the same name in PSO2.

It's somehow even more fitting with Horny Theory than the previous pick people were naming.

Nevermind, carry on then.

LOL Oh joy, we're going back to horny jail again; I love that place! But before we go there, I have a challenge: Take Horny Jail to a higher level than Scythana from Skullgirls.

You see, I haven't been able to take Horny Jail to new levels like a used to, since I couldn't think of anything higher than Scythana. XD

 

[Schnee117]

Doom Slayer would do well in Japan based on Korone alone.

 

[osby]

You miss the entire point.

Byleth/Three Houses is recent IP. Marth or Roy have been around that long and both characters are well received. Similar situation with Persona and Joker. Joker is a recent character and the IP is more on Sony systems historically than Nintendo. The thing with FE is that it has already been done and beat into the ground. We really didn't need another FE pick. Lloyd or Sora have NOT been represented (I guess you could argue Cloud as a stretch for a Kingdom Heart rep but that is a massive stretch).

Take Tales which is frequently on Nintendo Systems and played probably by a large chunk of the base on here. People have more connection to Tales than Persona or Four Houses. I imagine that is why Tales would be a less controversial addition.

You don't see a lot of complaints about Hero and DQ because the series has been appearing regular on Nintendo consoles, even in North America, since the NES era.

Byleth ranked pretty high among other Fire Emblem characters along with other Three Houses characters in Heroes' popularity polls.
Pyra and Mythra are both super popular among XC2 fans and have a crazy amount of fanart.
Joker is straight-up the most popular Persona character ever.

You don't need to make up imaginary flaws in characters to downplay them.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

LOL Oh joy, we're going back to horny jail again; I love that place! But before we go there, I have a challenge: Take Horny Jail to a higher level than Scythana from Skullgirls.

You see, I haven't been able to take Horny Jail to new levels like a used to, since I couldn't think of anything higher than Scythana. XD

The obvious answer is Velvet Crowe. Her outfit doesn't cover much (she's also a great character aside from booba though).

 

[volbound1700]

Byleth ranked pretty high among other Fire Emblem characters along with other Three Houses characters in Heroes' popularity polls.
Pyra and Mythra are both super popular among XC2 fans and have a crazy amount of fanart.
Joker is straight-up the most popular Persona character ever.

You don't need to make up imaginary flaws in characters to downplay them.

It isn't imaginary if people, by perception, feel that way. There is a term called "Perception is reality." People have seen these characters as controversial. Maybe it was the mass of these characters and had we gotten a couple of them, there would have been more openness about it.

Here is a quick fact, Fire Emblem has 8 characters (Marth, Roy, Ike, Lucina, Robin, Byleth, Corrin, Chrom) while the Legend of Zelda, a far bigger and more popular franchise, has 6 characters (Link, Ganon, Zelda, Young Link, Toon Link, Sheik). That alone sums up why FE is getting heat. The Franchise already has a lot of representation.

 

[Technomage]

The obvious answer is Velvet Crowe. Her outfit doesn't cover much (she's also a great character aside from booba though).
View attachment 318182

I see what you mean, but while she may be hot (moreso than Scythana, though she is still hot), she doesn't have any horns, nor is she wearing a prisoner's uniform (she doesn't even have any shackles or handcuffs). Horny Jail doesn't consist solely of hotness, you know. XD

 

[Cutie Gwen]

You miss the entire point.

Byleth/Three Houses is recent IP. Marth or Roy have been around that long and both characters are well received. Similar situation with Persona and Joker. Joker is a recent character and the IP is more on Sony systems historically than Nintendo. The thing with FE is that it has already been done and beat into the ground. We really didn't need another FE pick. Lloyd or Sora have NOT been represented (I guess you could argue Cloud as a stretch for a Kingdom Heart rep but that is a massive stretch).

Take Tales which is frequently on Nintendo Systems and played probably by a large chunk of the base on here. People have more connection to Tales than Persona or Four Houses. I imagine that is why Tales would be a less controversial addition.

You don't see a lot of complaints about Hero and DQ because the series has been appearing regular on Nintendo consoles, even in North America, since the NES era.

Uh, no, Fire Emblem and Persona getting their recent characters doesn't mean Byleth and Joker are from different IPs, they're still from the same 20+ year old franchises, Marth and Roy are mostly accepted because they've been in Smash for 20 years, Byleth wouldn't still be getting hate after 20 years either.

Uh no, Tales wouldn't be less controversial because the same people complaining about Byleth and Joker being generic anime swordsmen would still have that complaint for Lloyd or Yuri even if the first was asked for since Brawl.

Again, no. People were absolutely livid about Dragon Quest getting a character since Brave leaked and people are still angry about Hero nearly 2 years later

 

[Nekoo]

It isn't imaginary if people, by perception, feel that way. There is a term called "Perception is reality." People have seen these characters as controversial. Maybe it was the mass of these characters and had we gotten a couple of them, there would have been more openness about it.

Perception is reality, however it doesn't change facts. Don't have me bring up the Persona 5 sales for just 2.5 games (P5/Royal and Strikers) and the amount of crossover with huge IP Joker did again.

Joker was like, the least controversial character in all fighter passes so far.

 

[Fluttershy64]

I'm curious as to which one your referring to, mind reposting it anyway?

This was the Krystal brawl thread which I'm guessing is the reference tot the story.

TRS Presents: Krystal for Brawl.

There will be no clones in SSBB.

smashboards.com

 

[volbound1700]

Uh, no, Fire Emblem and Persona getting their recent characters doesn't mean Byleth and Joker are from different IPs, they're still from the same 20+ year old franchises, Marth and Roy are mostly accepted because they've been in Smash for 20 years, Byleth wouldn't still be getting hate after 20 years either.

Uh no, Tales wouldn't be less controversial because the same people complaining about Byleth and Joker being generic anime swordsmen would still have that complaint for Lloyd or Yuri even if the first was asked for since Brawl.

Again, no. People were absolutely livid about Dragon Quest getting a character since Brave leaked and people are still angry about Hero nearly 2 years later

Then why were so many people salty about Byleth? Answer that one. The thing is we already had 7 FE characters in Smash prior to Byleth and nearly all of them (with the exception of maybe Robin and to a small degree Corrin) represented just sword fighting which is a small part of FE's gameplay.

I saw a lot more people salty about Byleth than Hero any day of the week. I really did not hear much complaints about Hero. I would say Byleth was the most controversial add of all the DLC additions.

Let's be honest, there are people on this boards that would defend nearly any characters Sakurai could add to the game. He could add two more FE characters and you would likely still be defending the picks.

 

[Technomage]

I saw a lot more people salty about Byleth than Hero any day of the week. I really did not hear much complaints about Hero. I would say Byleth was the most controversial add of all the DLC additions.

Yeah, the only complaints I remember seeing made about Hero are ones involving RNG (and complaints involving Command Select's language barrier).

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Then why were so many people salty about Byleth? Answer that one. The thing is we already had 7 FE characters in Smash prior to Byleth and nearly all of them (with the exception of maybe Robin and to a small degree Corrin) represented just sword fighting which is a small part of FE's gameplay.

I saw a lot more people salty about Byleth than Hero any day of the week. I really did not hear much complaints about Hero. I would say Byleth was the most controversial add of all the DLC additions.

Let's be honest, there are people on this boards that would defend nearly any characters Sakurai could add to the game. He could add two more FE characters and you would likely still be defending the picks.

You're missing my points, I corrected you after you said Byleth and Joker are from recent IPs. My second point about Marth and Roy getting Smash seniority which in turn makes them seem 'more well received' wasn't addressed at all, in 20 years from now, Byleth will have the same thing. You see this all the time like with how Snake, ROB and Wolf were hated back in Brawl but they became fanfavourites who people cheered for, there were people who said they didn't want to see Pichu back be glad to see him with the whole Everyone Is Here thing. The same is going to happen to Byleth.


Then you didn't see the state of this website when we first got Brave, you didn't see the state of support threads eagerly awaiting their characters only to be met with Hero at E3, Banjo's thread in particular having this cause a major stink and trashing until 40 minutes later when Banjo got announced and how so many idiots keep trying to ban Hero from competitive play for any reason they can think of.

My stance on a character is as long as they're cool, I'm happy. The franchise they're from is irrelevant

 

[warubyun]

Doom Slayer would do well in Japan based on Korone alone.

Going sicko mode. Inugami Korone for Smash.

 

[volbound1700]

You're missing my points, I corrected you after you said Byleth and Joker are from recent IPs. My second point about Marth and Roy getting Smash seniority which in turn makes them seem 'more well received' wasn't addressed at all, in 20 years from now, Byleth will have the same thing. You see this all the time like with how Snake, ROB and Wolf were hated back in Brawl but they became fanfavourites who people cheered for, there were people who said they didn't want to see Pichu back be glad to see him with the whole Everyone Is Here thing. The same is going to happen to Byleth.


Then you didn't see the state of this website when we first got Brave, you didn't see the state of support threads eagerly awaiting their characters only to be met with Hero at E3, Banjo's thread in particular having this cause a major stink and trashing until 40 minutes later when Banjo got announced and how so many idiots keep trying to ban Hero from competitive play for any reason they can think of.

My stance on a character is as long as they're cool, I'm happy. The franchise they're from is irrelevant

Byleth, as a character, and the universe he represents is a most recent IP. His game is not even in the same universe as Marth's series. I remember more flame about Byleth than any other character. This also started the "too many JRPG character" arguments. The main reason for the flame is that people feel like there are other characters that should have that spot instead (i.e. Sakurai should have pursued let's say Impa being included instead of Byleth).

People do warm up over time, I will agree with you on that.

Here is the thing, Sakurai is probably in a tough spot. No matter who he picks, there is probably going to be annoyance in the fanbase. Early picks were Universally popular and made sense: Megaman, Sonic, Pacman, Snake, Ryu, Cloud, Simon Belmont, etc. Those franchises are big GLOBALLY.

I do think there are still some IP out there that could fit that bill such as Bomberman or Ryu Hayabusa. Lloyd Irving is, to a degree, popular somewhat in the West and has been around. He won't get the hate that Byleth got.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

So um
I was watching Source Gaming's E3 predictions:
One of their guys made a good case for another Konami rep in general.

Konami is a company that brought the NES Contra reboot as a Switch launch game.
They have been making exclusive Switch games as well, including classic game collections
Back in April 2021, Konami teased new Switch projects they had.

We got and as base game newcomers and. was brought back.

Bill Rizer, anyone? Frogger too I guess lol


ALSO
Axel Stone would be a good SEGA rep as well.

 

[Nekoo]

So um
I was watching Source Gaming's E3 predictions:
One of their guys made a good case for another Konami rep in general.

Konami is a company that brought the NES Contra reboot as a Switch launch game.
They have been making exclusive Switch games as well, including classic game collections
Back in April 2021, Konami teased new Switch projects they had.

We got and as base game newcomers and. was brought back.

Bill Rizer, anyone? Frogger too I guess lol


ALSO
Axel Stone would be a good SEGA rep as well.

If sourcegaming says that something happens, it means it won't.
cf:every smash characters they ever speculated

 

[GilTheGreat19]

If sourcegaming says that something happens, it means it won't.
cf:every smash characters they ever speculated

Lol
I mean you can neglect Source Gaming from this topic and just say "Hmm another Konami rep, maybe?"
I mean other than Bill, I can't see them getting anyone else. Bomberman's not happening imo.

 

[Technomage]

So um
I was watching Source Gaming's E3 predictions:
One of their guys made a good case for another Konami rep in general.

Konami is a company that brought the NES Contra reboot as a Switch launch game.
They have been making exclusive Switch games as well, including classic game collections
Back in April 2021, Konami teased new Switch projects they had.

We got and as base game newcomers and. was brought back.

Bill Rizer, anyone? Frogger too I guess lol

There's also Pyramid Head, Alice Tsukagami (Bloody Roar), Bonk, Dance Dance Revolution character (maybe?), Sparkster (Rocket Knight), Reiko Hinomoto (Rumble Roses), and someone from Suikoden.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Byleth, as a character, and the universe he represents is a most recent IP. His game is not even in the same universe as Marth's series. I remember more flame about Byleth than any other character. This also started the "too many JRPG character" arguments. The main reason for the flame is that people feel like there are other characters that should have that spot instead (i.e. Sakurai should have pursued let's say Impa being included instead of Byleth).

People do warm up over time, I will agree with you on that.

Here is the thing, Sakurai is probably in a tough spot. No matter who he picks, there is probably going to be annoyance in the fanbase. Early picks were Universally popular and made sense: Megaman, Sonic, Pacman, Snake, Ryu, Cloud, Simon Belmont, etc. Those franchises are big GLOBALLY.

I do think there are still some IP out there that could fit that bill such as Bomberman or Ryu Hayabusa. Lloyd Irving is, to a degree, popular somewhat in the West and has been around. He won't get the hate that Byleth got.

No they don't, Three Houses is still a Fire Emblem game so it's the same IP, they represent a recent GAME. This is like saying FFXVI's Clive is from a different franchise than Cloud who in turn is from a different franchise than Terra and so on. The 'too many JRPG characters' thing has been around for 6 years so you're wrong on that too. Saying it should have been a different character doesn't matter because that other character would have gone through the exact same thing.


This applies to every character. I sure as **** remember seeing people pissed off about Snake, Ryu and Cloud when they were first announced, Cloud also suffered from "Ew generic anime swordsman".

I cannot disagree more, Hayabusa's been highly speculated for about 2 years now and he's gotten pushback from the same group that was mad about the likes of Snake and Cloud. Lloyd's been a consistently popular request for over a decade, but as seen with Hero, he'll still get pushback for being "this generic anime swordwielding JRPG character with no personality that nobody asked for" like the rest as like you said, every character gets pushback

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Lol
I mean you can neglect Source Gaming from this topic and just say "Hmm another Konami rep, maybe?"
I mean other than Bill, I can't see them getting anyone else. Bomberman's not happening imo.

Other than Bill, I think Raiden could be a slight possibility but I think Bill is more likely. Not entirely sure on Pyramid Head yet.

 

[Perkilator]

https://twitter.com/HoboKingNiklz/status/1401421866913386497?s=20

https://twitter.com/HoboKingNiklz/status/1401640179341959172?s=20

Another "leak" in the house, ofc it could be fake. People are good at whipping up fake but good looking "real" trailers.
I think it's probably fake, but what do y'all think?

I don't think it looks too bad for a fake. Definitely better than that one with Bewear

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Konami is a company that brought the NES Contra reboot as a Switch launch game.

You mean Rogue Corps? That was announced 2 years ago, so it can't be a launch title

 

[Evil Trapezium]

I mean other than Bill, I can't see them getting anyone else. Bomberman's not happening imo.

They still got Twinbee.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Definitely better than that one with Bewear

Bro that one was too funny

They'd NEVER use a non-alternative character alt in CGI (Fusion Samus).

You mean Rogue Corps? That was announced 2 years ago, so it can't be a launch title

I see.
HOWEVER, another Konami game was still a launch title.
Super Bomberman R.

 

[Louie G.]

It seems like JRPG/Anime characters seem to be less popular if they are more recent characters and have not been a part of a long running franchise (i.e. Byleth, Mythra/Pyra, Joker).

Joker was probably one of the best received DLC characters and is still among the most commonly played characters in the game, he definitely doesn’t count.

As I’ve told you before also, Persona 5 is big globally. It’s a breakout hit and has cemented itself as one of Sega’s most marketable IPs. You can’t turn a corner without seeing Persona 5 now.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

They still got Twinbee.

View attachment 318183

Bruh why did I think of this first thing

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Bro that one was too funny

They'd NEVER use a non-alternative character alt in CGI (Fusion Samus).


I see.
HOWEVER, another Konami game was still a launch title.
Super Bomberman R.

Which is a ****ing shame as we deserve a proper, venom symbiote-like Fusion Suit dammit.

Yeah but that isn't something that helps Contra specifically

 

[volbound1700]

No they don't, Three Houses is still a Fire Emblem game so it's the same IP, they represent a recent GAME. This is like saying FFXVI's Clive is from a different franchise than Cloud who in turn is from a different franchise than Terra and so on. The 'too many JRPG characters' thing has been around for 6 years so you're wrong on that too. Saying it should have been a different character doesn't matter because that other character would have gone through the exact same thing.


This applies to every character. I sure as **** remember seeing people pissed off about Snake, Ryu and Cloud when they were first announced, Cloud also suffered from "Ew generic anime swordsman".

I cannot disagree more, Hayabusa's been highly speculated for about 2 years now and he's gotten pushback from the same group that was mad about the likes of Snake and Cloud. Lloyd's been a consistently popular request for over a decade, but as seen with Hero, he'll still get pushback for being "this generic anime swordwielding JRPG character with no personality that nobody asked for" like the rest as like you said, every character gets pushback

Perhaps I am wrong, but I have never seen anyone upset about Cloud or Snake being in Smash. Snake is in the top 3-5 hype reactions of a character addition (granted it was also because he was the first third-party added). There was a small contingent that might have been upset at Snake because they just didn't want any third-parties added.

Bayonetta was the only one that I saw universal frustration with in the Smash 4 era (at least third-party, there was also frustration at Corrin).

Perhaps Joker is more on me or my region than universal dislike. Still, the salt over Byleth was fairly common place.

We have gotten way off topic, my original post is that I just don't think Lloyd Irving will get the hate that the original post cited. He was near the bottom on negative reaction but I don't see that. Tales is a more wide spread series and although he is a JRPG sword user, people probably have more affinity with his franchise. It may come down to the moveset that he has though. Don't underestimate that. If his moveset is a lot like the FE characters, he probably will get more hate.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Yeah but that isn't something that helps Contra specifically

It more or less SORT OF helps a 4th Konami character in general.
Also, interesting take on the Fusion Suit, never heard that before. I just think it looks neat lol

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Perhaps I am wrong, but I have never seen anyone upset about Cloud or Snake being in Smash. Snake is in the top 3-5 hype reactions of a character addition (granted it was also because he was the first third-party added). There was a small contingent that might have been upset at Snake because they just didn't want any third-parties added.

Bayonetta was the only one that I saw universal frustration with in the Smash 4 era (at least third-party, there was also frustration at Corrin).

Perhaps Joker is more on me or my region than universal dislike. Still, the salt over Byleth was fairly common place.

We have gotten way off topic, my original post is that I just don't think Lloyd Irving will get the hate that the original post cited. He was near the bottom on negative reaction but I don't see that. Tales is a more wide spread series and although he is a JRPG sword user, people probably have more affinity with his franchise. It may come down to the moveset that he has though. Don't underestimate that. If his moveset is a lot like the FE characters, he probably will get more hate.

Snake had the anti third party pushback and remember, the Smash fanbase has been more accepting of third parties over the years, with Snake getting a ****ton of pushback for not being Nintendo enough and I know NeoGAF in particular was very upset about Snake being in the game when Simon was an option. Cloud was a literal joke suggestion in the Brawl days and surprise surprise, a lot of people were mad about Cloud representing Square's 'betrayal' of Nintendo as he'd only ever made cameos on Nintendo systems and with FF7 being one of the PS1's greatest hits. People will always be vocal about what they dislike.

Thing is, Bayonetta was actually a huge request on the likes of tumblr and NeoGAF, the biggest pushback she got was from people who wanted Nintendo characters and the fact she was the final character, making her an easy scapegoat

Joker is absolutely on you, I'm genuinely amazed you can say you've never heard about Persona 5 as I couldn't get away from it at all since it came out in Japan, with the P5 branded games making like of third of the whole franchise's sales.

Again, the people upset about JRPG characters getting in the DLC don't care if the character is actually a popular character or not, meaning Lloyd would get bashed just as much as the others

 

[WeirdChillFever]

As I said before, speculation terms like iconicness can only assuage the lack of personal connection so much. If people don’t have a connection with JRPGs then the difference in their reaction between Byleth and Lloyd won’t be that big regardless of more objective qualities like sales or recency

 

[Yacobo]

As I said before, speculation terms like iconicness can only assuage the lack of personal connection so much. If people don’t have a connection with JRPGs then the difference in their reaction between Byleth and Lloyd won’t be that big regardless of more objective qualities like sales or recency

I disagree. Reception to Sephiroth was better overall due to how big he is of a character.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I disagree. Reception to Sephiroth was better overall due to how big he is of a character.

Personal connection can also be “I love OWA” to me. Whether people liked him “because he was big and thus deserved it” or more people have a connection with him because he is so big is a subtle difference I suppose, but judging by Hero, little people who dislike the character will be swayed by the argument that he deserved his spot based on metrics and historic impact and what not. Like I admit the Aegis was a good choice on paper thanks to the popularity and impact of Xenoblade 2 and the lack of Xenoblade reps yadda yadda, but I also believe they should’ve been dropped from the line-up as soon as it was clear that the actual combat system of XB2 wouldn‘t work in Smash.