Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[volbound1700]

For Nintendo, I see Joker's inclusion as a way to

1. Improve their relationship with Sega/Atlus, which is always a factor when a third party character gets added
2. Appeal to a different demographic that might not have a big overlap with the core Nintendo fans
3. Take benefit from the growing popularity of Persona in the past years, which is very smart on their part

I also guess that with Joker, they were at least paving the way to get more Persona titles on Nintendo consoles in the future. It might take a while to get Persona 5 on Switch, but once it happens, I don't think the eventual Persona 6 is going to be Playstation exclusive. If Nintendo specifically wanted a character from Atlus, Joker was the most popular name available, so going with him makes sense.

And Persona as a brand isn't as mainstream as GTA, Fortnite or Minecraft are, that's obvious and I don't think anyone would say something like that, but it has definitely become a name you will hear frequently for anyone who is more dedicated to videogames. What I mean by this is, casual players for me are the ones who might regularly play games but don't give a **** about gaming conferences, news about games, and all of that. So the most hardcore gaming series they have probably heard about would be something like series such as Dark Souls or God of War, to name a few.

But if you're a more dedicated gamer and all? I think in that case it's very hard that you haven't heard at least once about Persona, or Persona 5, in the past few years. Maybe it's just me but I've seen the game kinda everywhere to the point some other RPG games are compared to Persona 5 both by the media and the public, like happened with Yakuza Like a Dragon or like it has been happening with Neo The World Ends with You since it's announcement. I've also personally noted that the classic "best 10 JRPGs" kinda lists a lot of websites and Youtube channels do now feature Persona games more frequently compared to before Persona 5 was launched.

Maybe small details, but there are a lot of small things like the ones I mentioned that prove that Persona is definitely becoming bigger, and as of now it's definitely mainstream within the JRPG sphere.

I agree with many of your points. I am TOO HARD on Joker to be honest. It wasn't a character in high demand on any Smash Community website that I kept up with, wasn't a character that I even knew, and one that isn't popular in my region. However, there are definitely good arguments on why he was included and I just need to be more open minded.

I consider myself a decent gamer. I probably don't play a lot of console games like I did 10-15 years ago. I had NOT heard of Persona or Joker prior to the Smash announcement. Nearly all of the other IP that has been added, I had heard of on announcement (I was a little spotty on Terry and SNK at the time that he was announced but I do remember seeing him now. I SHOULD have known him because that was more of my heyday in gaming). Then again, I probably know obscure PC games that were major hits that people on here don't know .

 

[Cutie Gwen]

So the full versions of all the Guilty Gear Strive character themes are on youtube now, this is your friendly reminder that Sol is one of the best potential newcomers we could get

Thank you all for agreeing

 

[GilTheGreat19]

So the full versions of all the Guilty Gear Strive character themes are on youtube now, this is your friendly reminder that Sol is one of the best potential newcomers we could get
View attachment 318196
Thank you all for agreeing

Ah, fighting game characters..

Man I love Terry, and Ken, and Ryu are great too.

Sol, Scorpion, Jin Kazama, or Nightmare plz lol

 

[volbound1700]

Totally personal bias here, but a big part of me just doesn't want another human-like character. I kind of what an animal-like hero such as Crash or Rayman (Rayman is technically not an animal but isn't human). Someone a little on the more cartoony side rather than serious side.

 

[Louie G.]

Something I forgot to mention when talking about character placement too - Terry.

I think Terry actually benefits the most from convenient placement, being a character largely unfamiliar to a significant bulk of Smash's demographic but revealed right after one of the most highly requested characters ever and right alongside the announcement of more content to come. Sure, I imagine Sakurai's own love for SNK helped people understand his worth as a character too, and Terry's charisma is indisputable, but I can't imagine Terry being as widely accepted and appreciated if he dropped right now and everybody knew that we only had one character left afterwards.

Terry kicks ass, for what it's worth. I just wonder if we got another character with a similar level of say, regionally skewed niche popularity or something a little smaller and more lowkey that they would be embraced as easily as Terry was in what was honestly like the perfect place for him within that pass.

 

[Technomage]

I see plenty of people complain about sword users, but I also see people counter that by saying there are a lot of hand-to-hand characters. With that in mind, I'm going to count the number of both kinds of characters to see whether or not the complaints are unfounded.

Swordfighters:
Mythra
Hand-to-Hand Fighters:


Well, I guess the "too many swordies" complaint doesn't really work, huh? We could use more of other types of fighting styles (such as shooters).

Note: I didn't include characters like Yoshi or PT's Pokemon because their fighting styles are closer to animal combat than hand-to-hand. On the other hand, I included the Kongs because their fighting styles are pretty close to h2h and only borderline animal combat. I also added Kirby because most of his attacks are martial arts/brawling.

 

[volbound1700]

Something I forgot to mention when talking about character placement too - Terry.

I think Terry actually benefits the most from convenient placement, being a character largely unfamiliar to a significant bulk of Smash's demographic but revealed right after one of the most highly requested characters ever and right alongside the announcement of more content to come. Sure, I imagine Sakurai's own love for SNK helped people understand his worth as a character too, and Terry's charisma is indisputable, but I can't imagine Terry being as widely accepted and appreciated if he dropped right now and everybody knew that we only had one character left afterwards.

I wasn't HUGE on him when he was announced but learned to love him with time. I think his decent move set played in his favor as well. He is a pretty unique character and his stage is very unique. We also only had, arguable, two traditional fighting characters in the game (Ken and Ryu) so he represents a category of fighters that doesn't have a lot of representation.

 

[Technomage]

Kiryu would never hit a women, ruling Yakuza out. This means Tom Brady will be the final DLC rep.

Nah, it means James Bond will be the last fighter.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Something I forgot to mention when talking about character placement too - Terry.

I think Terry actually benefits the most from convenient placement, being a character largely unfamiliar to a significant bulk of Smash's demographic but revealed right after one of the most highly requested characters ever and right alongside the announcement of more content to come. Sure, I imagine Sakurai's own love for SNK helped people understand his worth as a character too, and Terry's charisma is indisputable, but I can't imagine Terry being as widely accepted and appreciated if he dropped right now and everybody knew that we only had one character left afterwards.

Terry kicks ass, for what it's worth. I just wonder if we got another character with a similar level of say, regionally skewed niche popularity or something a little smaller and more lowkey that they would be embraced as easily as Terry was in what was honestly like the perfect place for him within that pass.

For real!
Wonder if they'll pull a Terry with anyone else in this pass.

Maybe with companies like Falcom or ArcSys..?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Something I forgot to mention when talking about character placement too - Terry.

I think Terry actually benefits the most from convenient placement, being a character largely unfamiliar to a significant bulk of Smash's demographic but revealed right after one of the most highly requested characters ever and right alongside the announcement of more content to come. Sure, I imagine Sakurai's own love for SNK helped people understand his worth as a character too, and Terry's charisma is indisputable, but I can't imagine Terry being as widely accepted and appreciated if he dropped right now and everybody knew that we only had one character left afterwards.

Terry kicks ass, for what it's worth. I just wonder if we got another character with a similar level of say, regionally skewed niche popularity or something a little smaller and more lowkey that they would be embraced as easily as Terry was in what was honestly like the perfect place for him within that pass.

I think Terry also just happened to have the benefits of one of the most fun stages we've gotten in ages and a quite frankly absurd amount of songs, making him have the most bang for your buck

 

[volbound1700]

I think Terry also just happened to have the benefits of one of the most fun stages we've gotten in ages and a quite frankly absurd amount of songs, making him have the most bang for your buck

I totally agree with everything you said plus my points about the character being fun but I also want to add that Terry's announcement also came with the announcement of FP #2 which also soften backlash from people not getting their favorite character. They knew more content was coming.

 

[Yacobo]

I see plenty of people complain about sword users, but I also see people counter that by saying there are a lot of hand-to-hand characters. With that in mind, I'm going to count the number of both kinds of characters to see whether or not the complaints are unfounded.

Swordfighters:
Mythra
Hand-to-Hand Fighters:


Well, I guess the "too many swordies" complaint doesn't really work, huh?

Note: I didn't include characters like Yoshi or PT's Pokemon because their fighting styles are closer to animal combat than hand-to-hand. On the other hand, I included the Kongs because their fighting styles are pretty close to h2h and only borderline animal combat. I also added Kirby because most of his attacks are martial arts/brawling.

On average the characters that aren't sword users have MUCH more variety in both Nimations and function in their moves This has always been a disengenous comparison

 

[N3ON]

I see plenty of people complain about sword users, but I also see people counter that by saying there are a lot of hand-to-hand characters. With that in mind, I'm going to count the number of both kinds of characters to see whether or not the complaints are unfounded.

Swordfighters:
Mythra
Hand-to-Hand Fighters:


Well, I guess the "too many swordies" complaint doesn't really work, huh?

Note: I didn't include characters like Yoshi or PT's Pokemon because their fighting styles are closer to animal combat than hand-to-hand. On the other hand, I included the Kongs because their fighting styles are pretty close to h2h and only borderline animal combat. I also added Kirby because most of his attacks are martial arts/brawling.

You stack it up like this and it really does seem like there are a lot of swordfighters lol, look how close the two groups are

 

[Technomage]

You stack it up like this and it really does seem like there are a lot of swordfighters lol, look how close the two groups are

Hmmmm, I see, but it still does show the hypocrisy of sword-complainers that don't address the overabundance of Mr. Kickyfoots and Mr. Punchyfists.

 

[volbound1700]

I see plenty of people complain about sword users, but I also see people counter that by saying there are a lot of hand-to-hand characters. With that in mind, I'm going to count the number of both kinds of characters to see whether or not the complaints are unfounded.

Swordfighters:
Mythra
Hand-to-Hand Fighters:


Well, I guess the "too many swordies" complaint doesn't really work, huh? We could use more of other types of fighting styles (such as shooters).

Note: I didn't include characters like Yoshi or PT's Pokemon because their fighting styles are closer to animal combat than hand-to-hand. On the other hand, I included the Kongs because their fighting styles are pretty close to h2h and only borderline animal combat. I also added Kirby because most of his attacks are martial arts/brawling.

Another thing to keep in mind is that most of the NEW characters have been sword users. Alot of the hand to hand are older characters. Also several of the hand-to-hand that you have mentioned can fit multiple roles (I don't consider Bayonetta or Snake to be 100% hand to hand as they have guns and other utility items that they use).

 

[RednekGamurz]

So the full versions of all the Guilty Gear Strive character themes are on youtube now, this is your friendly reminder that Sol is one of the best potential newcomers we could get
View attachment 318196
Thank you all for agreeing

Sol would be sick. My friends have been getting me into GG in the last couple of years, and while Sol's not my main, he's still a fun as hell character to play as from time to time. Even if he (somehow) ends up not being fun to play as, the music that would come with him would make his inclusion worth it alone. He's not my top choice, or even my top fighting game character choice, but I would still be really hyped to see him in Smash.

 

[Lyncario]

So the full versions of all the Guilty Gear Strive character themes are on youtube now, this is your friendly reminder that Sol is one of the best potential newcomers we could get
View attachment 318196
Thank you all for agreeing

Twitter platformer fans: Our genre is underepresented, we need more characters!

Twitter jrpg fans: No, we are the ones that need more characters!

Fighting game enjoyers: THAT IS BULL**** BLAZING!

 

[PeridotGX]

I see plenty of people complain about sword users, but I also see people counter that by saying there are a lot of hand-to-hand characters. With that in mind, I'm going to count the number of both kinds of characters to see whether or not the complaints are unfounded.

Swordfighters:
Mythra
Hand-to-Hand Fighters:


Well, I guess the "too many swordies" complaint doesn't really work, huh? We could use more of other types of fighting styles (such as shooters).

Note: I didn't include characters like Yoshi or PT's Pokemon because their fighting styles are closer to animal combat than hand-to-hand. On the other hand, I included the Kongs because their fighting styles are pretty close to h2h and only borderline animal combat. I also added Kirby because most of his attacks are martial arts/brawling.

Devil's Advocate here, we've gotten a lot more sword characters in the recent games. It's only about half and half, but I get why people who were used to brawlers being the clear majority in 64-Brawl think swordfighters are overwhelming the fist fighters (and for the record, I don't agree with this. I like a lot of swordfighters)

 

[Technomage]

Twitter platformer fans: Our genre is underepresented, we need more characters!

Twitter jrpg fans: No, we are the ones that need more characters!

Fighting game enjoyers: THAT IS BULL**** BLAZING!

Shooter fans: FORGET YOU GUYS! WE'RE THE ONES WHO NEED MORE REPS!

 

[SharkLord]

I think Terry also just happened to have the benefits of one of the most fun stages we've gotten in ages and a quite frankly absurd amount of songs, making him have the most bang for your buck

Eeyup. Terry's still got the best pack in terms of overall content; Fun character, unique stage, a frickload of songs, and the most cameos in the entire DLC - And they don't have PS2-era graphics, either.

I doubt we'll ever get a smaller character as well received as Terry, but for someone like Reimu or Adol the blow could be softened a fair bit if Sakurai just dumps at least 30 songs on us and leaves us to root through them all.

 

[N3ON]

Hmmmm, I see, but it still does show the hypocrisy of sword-complainers that don't address the overabundance of Mr. Kickyfoots and Mr. Punchyfists.

I guess, but that was always a weird comparison to me, since it's a specific weapon type compared against an absence of a weapon. I know fists are technically weapons but it's like saying there's less of a certain skew than the default. That's to be expected, imo, and in and of itself doesn't seem like a counterpoint that really diminishes the quantity of sword characters when you consider the variety of possible weapons.

 

[Ivander]

Really makes you think.
View attachment 318195

I mean, aside from Phantasy Star Online 2 coming to the West, one of the other reasons I've been thinking about Phantasy Star as a potential candidate is Sakurai's history with it. Specifically the Phantasy Star 2 story contest that he won and leading to him becoming a developer.
Like forget his SNK fanboy-ism with his Terry showing and his fanboy-ish talks with the other DLC characters like Steve, Sephiroth and Pyra/Mythra, imagine him introducing a Phantasy Star character and than talking about the Phantasy Star 2 contest he won and it leading up to his job as a developer.

 

[Pillow]

Eeyup. Terry's still got the best pack in terms of overall content; Fun character, unique stage, a frickload of songs, and the most cameos in the entire DLC - And they don't have PS2-era graphics, either.

I doubt we'll ever get a smaller character as well received as Terry, but for someone like Reimu or Adol the blow could be softened a fair bit if Sakurai just dumps at least 30 songs on us and leaves us to root through them all.

I think an important thing to note about Terry is that his general aesthetic and feel actually appeals pretty well to regions unfamiliar with him. Reimu or Adol comparatively will inevitably just be dismissed as being anime by Westerners no matter how good their pack content is.

 

[Curious Villager]

I see plenty of people complain about sword users, but I also see people counter that by saying there are a lot of hand-to-hand characters. With that in mind, I'm going to count the number of both kinds of characters to see whether or not the complaints are unfounded.

Swordfighters:
Mythra
Hand-to-Hand Fighters:


Well, I guess the "too many swordies" complaint doesn't really work, huh? We could use more of other types of fighting styles (such as shooters).

Note: I didn't include characters like Yoshi or PT's Pokemon because their fighting styles are closer to animal combat than hand-to-hand. On the other hand, I included the Kongs because their fighting styles are pretty close to h2h and only borderline animal combat. I also added Kirby because most of his attacks are martial arts/brawling.

Doesn't Greninja use its water sword things for a number of its attacks?
They weren't too pronounced in Smash 4 but in Ultimate they where redesigned to look more like the ones from the Pokemon XY anime.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Jibanyan (I mean let's not leave Level-5 in the dust lol_

If Level-5 DOES end up going under, I hope they at least get SOMETHING.

 

[SharkLord]

I think an important thing to note about Terry is that his general aesthetic and feel actually appeals pretty well to regions unfamiliar with him. Reimu or Adol comparatively will inevitably just be dismissed as being anime by Westerners no matter how good their pack content is.

Yeah, probably. As I mentioned before, Terry just worked, and I don't think we'll be able to fully recapture that magic again. Still, a ton of songs always helps.

 

[volbound1700]

Doesn't Greninja uses its water sword things for a number of its attacks?
They weren't too pronounced in Smash 4 but in Ultimate they where redesigned to look more like the ones from the Pokemon XY anime.

I would argue that Bayonetta, Greninja, Zero Suit Samus, and Snake are NOT even brawlers. Also there is different brawler movesets. For example, Incineroar is very different, moveset wise, than the other brawlers.

 

[TwiceEXE]

How are people feeling about the "Smash always ends on a low note" opinion? I've never subscribed to that in the first place, so I'm not expecting a huge disappointment next week. But I'm curious about other's thoughts. Are you going into it anticipating a wet noodle reveal?

 

[Idon]

Doesn't Greninja use its water sword things for a number of its attacks?
They weren't too pronounced in Smash 4 but in Ultimate they where redesigned to look more like the ones from the Pokemon XY anime.

Correct.

In Smash 4, they were water wakizashis, essentially short katanas.

In Ultimate, they are now oversized kunai to match the aesthetic of the Pokemon X/Y anime. This change comes along with the addition of him transforming into Ash-Greninja for his Final Smash.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

How are people feeling about the "Smash always ends on a low note" opinion? I've never subscribed to that in the first place, so I'm not expecting a huge disappointment next week. But I'm curious about other's thoughts. Are you going into it anticipating a wet noodle reveal?

If it was true then we wouldn't have gotten Bayonetta, Incineroar and Byleth as the final characters of their runs but rather Roy, Inkling and Banjo, I feel I'm gonna have a good time, especially as a pattern I found out has been working out completely

 

[SharkLord]

How are people feeling about the "Smash always ends on a low note" opinion? I've never subscribed to that in the first place, so I'm not expecting a huge disappointment next week. But I'm curious about other's thoughts. Are you going into it anticipating a wet noodle reveal?

So-so. There's precedence for a more low-key character - Not necessarily a bad one, just not as big compared to the others we got - But there's also precedence for a big reveal being saved for big events like E3. I think it could go either way.

 

[Guynamednelson]

And they don't have PS2-era graphics, either.

Ironically they edited models from KoFXIV, the same KoF mocked for its graphics looking outdated.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

If it was true then we wouldn't have gotten Bayonetta, Incineroar and Byleth as the final characters of their runs but rather Roy, Inkling and Banjo, I feel I'm gonna have a good time, especially as a pattern I found out has been working out completely

Inkling and Banjo are low key?

 

[SharkLord]

Ironically they edited models from KoFXIV, the same KoF mocked for its graphics looking outdated.

Really? This is new for me. Was there a file comparison or something a while back that I never saw?

 

[SNEKeater]

I agree with many of your points. I am TOO HARD on Joker to be honest. It wasn't a character in high demand on any Smash Community website that I kept up with, wasn't a character that I even knew, and one that isn't popular in my region. However, there are definitely good arguments on why he was included and I just need to be more open minded.

I consider myself a decent gamer. I probably don't play a lot of console games like I did 10-15 years ago. I had NOT heard of Persona or Joker prior to the Smash announcement. Nearly all of the other IP that has been added, I had heard of on announcement (I was a little spotty on Terry and SNK at the time that he was announced but I do remember seeing him now. I SHOULD have known him because that was more of my heyday in gaming). Then again, I probably know obscure PC games that were major hits that people on here don't know .

I mean that's okay, it's virtually impossible to keep up with everything, specially nowadays where a "random" indie game might get an enormous boost in popularity thanks to the mouth to mouth effect and become a very acclaimed and popular game, like Celeste, Hollow Knight or Hades.

There are a lot of characters and series, and I'm in the position that almost anything can offer something different or unique when it comes to unique, and that even small series can be important or have a legacy behind. A character or a franchise can have a sizable legacy or relevancy behind them but that doesn't mean they will be super known. And said characters don't need popularity to validate their merits, but obviously, being popular always helps and it's easier to use popularity rather than legacy to sell a character to people who might not be very familiar with the idea.

Persona has been a console only series until last year with the Steam port of Persona 4 Golden, which by the way sold incredibly well, surprising even Atlus themselves.
So I obviously don't blame you for not knowing about Persona, that could or will happen to all of us.

So the full versions of all the Guilty Gear Strive character themes are on youtube now, this is your friendly reminder that Sol is one of the best potential newcomers we could get
View attachment 318196
Thank you all for agreeing

I've managed to catch the full themes of May and Ky and they're very cool. Dissaster of Passion is super catchy.

As for Sol, yeah, I legit think he's one of the more badass options out there for Smash. He would probably have mixed reactions at this point of Ultimate's cycle but I truly believe he would end being a fan favorite, sort of like happened with Terry, thanks to his playstyle and the potential content he could bring.

Like yeah, he's anime and some people might not dig that a lot, that's okay, but I feel he's one of these anime characters that non-anime/RPG/FGC games would end loving. Like Cowboy Bebop, which is that kind of anime that non-anime fans will usually like lol.

Maybe I think that because of his design and the mix of anime and hard rock (which isn't surprising considering how Daisuke Ishiwatari, the creator of the series, is a big nerd of western rock/metal) he gives, but I don't know. Look at him:

This is official art from the Guilty Gear X artbook btw.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Really? This is new for me. Was there a file comparison or something a while back that I never saw?

King's bra is hidden in her textures. It's left over from KoFXIV letting you destroy her top as a reference to Art of Fighting 1 doing the same thing to let you find out she's a woman.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

How are people feeling about the "Smash always ends on a low note" opinion? I've never subscribed to that in the first place, so I'm not expecting a huge disappointment next week. But I'm curious about other's thoughts. Are you going into it anticipating a wet noodle reveal?

I don’t believe the last characters will be bad as much as there is a possibility the last ones won’t fit the Smash fanbase perception of being a “headliner” like with . For example Dixie, even though she’d be a good addition, would not be perceived as an “epic way” to end Smash which is really where the heart of the argument comes from.

 

[GoodGrief741]

How are people feeling about the "Smash always ends on a low note" opinion? I've never subscribed to that in the first place, so I'm not expecting a huge disappointment next week. But I'm curious about other's thoughts. Are you going into it anticipating a wet noodle reveal?

Yup. I'm fine with it because low-key doesn't necessarily mean bad, but I'm totally expecting to be disappointed (which I guess means I can't be disappointed?)

 

[True Blue Warrior]

No matter what there are only two objectives truths. One, the last character will not be close to being as poorly received as Byleth was and two, we are not getting a Gen 8 Pokemon as they have already bern disconfirmed.

 

[Schnee117]

And they don't have PS2-era graphics, either.

Never forget Tekken 2 Andy Bogard